So Capel has 6 years left on his contract

[Sean Miller Fan]

His first 3 years were a complete failure as he lost his first 2 classes almost entirely.

Johnson - transfer
McGowens- transfer
Toney - probable transfer
Murphy - transfer
Champagnie - NBA
Drumgoole - miss
Coulibaly - nice backup

Honestly, this is an F grade. In building a program, it would he hard to do any worse than this. We bash Stallings and yes, he had to go but Capel has had an extra year and is this close to bringing us back to Stallings level.....and he has 6 years left. What an effing mess Heather has on her hands.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

His first 3 years were a complete failure as he lost his first 2 classes almost entirely.

Johnson - transfer
McGowens- transfer
Toney - probable transfer
Murphy - transfer
Champagnie - NBA
Drumgoole - miss
Coulibaly - nice backup

Honestly, this is an F grade. In building a program, it would he hard to do any worse than this. We bash Stallings and yes, he had to go but Capel has had an extra year and is this close to bringing us back to Stallings level.....and he has 6 years left. What an effing mess Heather has on her hands.

Nope. You’re wrong. He took an 0-18 program that was losing by 30-40 every night, and quickly brought in ACC level players who have had us essentially in every game we play. That’s not an F grade. You want to give him a C...I can buy an argument. You can stomp your feet like a kid at Toys R Us but I’m glad he has stability.

 

[Bellack1]

Is your record scratched. Same crap thousands of times. A broken record. A very bad and pathetic broken record. Keep up the bad and pathetic work.

 

[pittchagg]

His first 3 years were a complete failure as he lost his first 2 classes almost entirely.

Johnson - transfer
McGowens- transfer
Toney - probable transfer
Murphy - transfer
Champagnie - NBA
Drumgoole - miss
Coulibaly - nice backup

Honestly, this is an F grade. In building a program, it would he hard to do any worse than this. We bash Stallings and yes, he had to go but Capel has had an extra year and is this close to bringing us back to Stallings level.....and he has 6 years left. What an effing mess Heather has on her hands.

“Probable” transfer for Toney seems like a stretch upon stretches.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Nope. You’re wrong. He took an 0-18 program that was losing by 30-40 every night, and quickly brought in ACC level players who have had us essentially in every game we play. That’s not an F grade. You want to give him a C...I can buy an argument. You can stomp your feet like a kid at Toys R Us but I’m glad he has stability.

I mean the summation of 3 years. Carr, Stewart, JWF, and Golden would have had very similar records had Stallings stayed. 3 years in and back to Stallings-level is a failure. You are discounting the fact that 2 good P6 players left with Stallings and he inherited a good player in JWF.

 

[pittchagg]

You also forgot Horton, who came in the second class and has turned into a decent ACC starter. I also don’t think that Justin Champagnie getting drafted after two years would represent a failure, nor would getting three years of ACC-starter play out of Xavier (2.85 years) and Toney be a failure - even though we’re going to get (at least) four out of Toney. Two years of ACC starter minutes out of Trey wasn’t what we expected, but it’s hardly a bust, either. Drumgoole has been a miss, no doubt, and IMO we got what we paid for with Murphy. Not a bust, not a boom, but about what we reasonably could have expected. And Coulibaly in year two has been a hell of a lot better than we reasonably expected him to. He’s been a league-average center - maybe a little below average, but that’s still a net positive for him at this point. Hardly a bust.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

You also forgot Horton, who came in the second class and has turned into a decent ACC starter. I also don’t think that Justin Champagnie getting drafted after two years would represent a failure, nor would getting three years of ACC-starter play out of Xavier (2.85 years) and Toney be a failure - even though we’re going to get (at least) four out of Toney. Two years of ACC starter minutes out of Trey wasn’t what we expected, but it’s hardly a bust, either. Drumgoole has been a miss, no doubt, and IMO we got what we paid for with Murphy. Not a bust, not a boom, but about what we reasonably could have expected. And Coulibaly in year two has been a hell of a lot better than we reasonably expected him to. He’s been a league-average center - maybe a little below average, but that’s still a net positive for him at this point. Hardly a bust.

im pretty harsh on Capel but an F is ridiculous for all the reasons you stated. It’s either a D or incomplete right now. It isn’t looking good but there have been a few positives.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

im pretty harsh on Capel but an F is ridiculous for all the reasons you stated. It’s either a D or incomplete right now. It isn’t looking good but there have been a few positives.

So if you didn't follow the program at all since Stallings left and I told you Capel would finish last, tied for last, and 12th then going into Year 4, he'd only have 1 player remaining from his first 2 classes (operating under the assumption that Toney, Champagnie, and Drumgoole arent coming back), 0 2021 recruits as of March, and only 1 player from his 2020 class made the rotation, what would you say?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

So if you didn't follow the program at all since Stallings left and I told you Capel would finish last, tied for last, and 12th then going into Year 4, he'd only have 1 player remaining from his first 2 classes (operating under the assumption that Toney, Champagnie, and Drumgoole arent coming back), 0 2021 recruits as of March, and only 1 player from his 2020 class made the rotation, what would you say?

Well you’re assuming that champ Toney and drumgoole are gone. Which is why it’s an incomplete.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I mean the summation of 3 years. Carr, Stewart, JWF, and Golden would have had very similar records had Stallings stayed. 3 years in and back to Stallings-level is a failure. You are discounting the fact that 2 good P6 players left with Stallings and he inherited a good player in JWF.

Well, Stallings had Carr, Stewart and JWF and went 0-18. A team that was 349th in scoring.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Well, Stallings had Carr, Stewart and JWF and went 0-18. A team that was 349th in scoring.

Terrible team but probably win 2-3 games the next year had Stallings stayed

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Well you’re assuming that champ Toney and drumgoole are gone. Which is why it’s an incomplete.

Champagnie is gone. Drumgoole is irrelevant. Toney, ok. He might come back but I don't see it

 

[Parkview57]

Well, Stallings

...was an offensive genius, don't you remember all the accolades thrown his way by fellow coaches and oft repeated by the national media. Plus the players were gonna love that offense and the fans would love the fact the offensive juggernaut would attract highly skilled offensive talent, none other than Paul Zeise proclaimed it.
It turns out he was hugely offensive, for sure.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Terrible team but probably win 2-3 games the next year had Stallings stayed

Sure, because you decided to choose a number out of thin air.

 

[Pittx9]

I think his on-court resume is nearing a failing grade, they should be better in year 3. It’s still impressive though he even recruited the talent he did so early in his tenure here. Not getting a lot out of most of that talent is on him though.

On the slight chance that both Toney and Champagnie return next season, things are a lot different. It’s still a team that should be in the tournament. If they’re both gone, yeah it could be really ugly. And I honestly don’t know what you do at that point.

It’s probably most logical to chalk it up as a group of kids that didn’t mesh and see what Capel can do in the next year, maybe 2. But if the core of Jeffress, Femi, and whoever they end up bringing in in the ‘21 class look as disjointed as the first 3 Capel teams... I think that would be a pretty clear indicator that Capel’s coaching is the issue.

 

[TD_6082]

Hindsight being 20/20 (or 50/50) Pitt should have stayed with Stallings one more year, then backed up a dump truck full of cash to the driveway of Nate Oats and unload it until he says stop.

 

[JD1976]

Champagnie is gone. Drumgoole is irrelevant. Toney, ok. He might come back but I don't see it

How is Capel recruiting a 3-star who turns into a 2-and-done NBA draft pick a black mark against him exactly?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

How is Capel recruiting a 3-star who turns into a 2-and-done NBA draft pick a black mark against him exactly?

Because that player helped the team accomplish nothing

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Sure, because you decided to choose a number out of thin air.

How many games does Carr, Stewart, JWF, Golden (and maybe Luther) win? 0 again? One of those guys turned into an All-American

 

[JD1976]

Because that player helped the team accomplish nothing

And why exactly would that be on Capel?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

And why exactly would that be on Capel?

Because he is being paid a lot of money to win

 

[TD_6082]

Tbh, you have a lot of mediocre teams with NBA draft picks, some with lottery picks. The NBA has absolutely crushed college basketball.

 

[JD1976]

Because he is being paid a lot of money to win

No. What I am referring to is that you cited Champagnie as an example of recruiting class misses during Capel’s first two years. My question is why should it be held against Capel that he might decide to leave for the NBA? There’s absolutely no logic in saying that recruiting an NBA-level player is anything other than a recruiting win.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

How many games does Carr, Stewart, JWF, Golden (and maybe Luther) win? 0 again? One of those guys turned into an All-American

We don't know, which makes your prognostication stupid. What we do know is the same crew under Stallings (without Golden) won exactly ZERO.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No. What I am referring to is that you cited Champagnie as an example of recruiting class misses during Capel’s first two years. My question is why should that be held against Capel that he might decide to leave for the NBA?

Because he isnt on the roster in Year 3 and he didn't help Pitt win many games. So it was essentially a wasted career here.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Hindsight being 20/20 (or 50/50) Pitt should have stayed with Stallings one more year

To see if it was possible to go 0-36 in a P6 conference? To see if someone could dig a hole so deep no one could climb out of it? To see if they could have driven even DT and me out of the building?

 

[TD_6082]

To see if it was possible to go 0-36 in a P6 conference? To see if someone could dig a hole so deep no one could climb out of it? To see if they could have driven even DT and me out of the building?

Sure. What difference would it have made? Would you rather have Nate Oats or Capel/Hurley?

If the goal is to win more ACC games than 0, they have their man. Capel deserves a raise and an extension.

 

[caleco's]

...was an offensive genius, don't you remember all the accolades thrown his way by fellow coaches and oft repeated by the national media. Plus the players were gonna love that offense and the fans would love the fact the offensive juggernaut would attract highly skilled offensive talent, none other than Paul Zeise proclaimed it.
It turns out he was hugely offensive, for sure.

what everyone forgets is stallings courtside demeanor with players. had he shown some w/l numbers and stayed we would have had a whole world of other issues on our hands with his public treatment of players

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Its reset to year 1 next year. Hopefully he laid the groundwork recruiting wise going forward.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Because he isnt on the roster in Year 3 and he didn't help Pitt win many games. So it was essentially a wasted career here.

So then he shouldn’t recruit guys who may be too good for fear they’ll leave early. Got it.

You really are a goof. You’ll spin anything to try it make it fit your narrative.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

what everyone forgets is stallings courtside demeanor with players. had he shown some w/l numbers and stayed we would have had a whole world of other issues on our hands with his public treatment of players

Here I go defending a guy who I absolutely hated as the coach of Panthers , but not one player has come out publicly stating what an Ahole he was . In fact his three best players on his team wanted nothing more to do with Pitt bb once he was fired . He was a horrible hire , but none of us really know anything about how he treated his players .

 

[Ronnyp91]

Hindsight being 20/20 (or 50/50) Pitt should have stayed with Stallings one more year, then backed up a dump truck full of cash to the driveway of Nate Oats and unload it until he says stop.

After another year of Stallings there’s no way you’d get anyone near a Nate Oats level to come here.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

After another year of Stallings there’s no way you’d get anyone near a Nate Oats level to come here.

You'd get anyone you want if you pay enough. Pitt would have to pay a premium obviously but anyone can he had for the right price.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

After another year of Stallings there’s no way you’d get anyone near a Nate Oats level to come here.

Incorrect. Pitt was an absolute dream job when Stallings left. No accountability for 3 years because of how far he ran into the ground. Contract extensions for 3 win ACC seasons because of how far he ran it into the ground? 3.2 mill? Build your team from scratch? They almost landed the HOTTEST coaching candidate there was in Hurley despite what many of you consider “limitations” to the job.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

You'd get anyone you want if you pay enough. Pitt would have to pay a premium obviously but anyone can he had for the right price.

Extensions after a 3 win conference seasons and zero accountability for multiple years on your job performance. Explain how ThAts not a dream job?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

You'd get anyone you want if you pay enough. Pitt would have to pay a premium obviously but anyone can he had for the right price.

If it was that easy to lure a top coach to Pitt it would’ve been done . A filled Pete combined with increasing donations easily would pay any premium needed to pay .

 

[Ronnyp91]

You'd get anyone you want if you pay enough. Pitt would have to pay a premium obviously but anyone can he had for the right price.

Incorrect. Pitt was an absolute dream job when Stallings left. No accountability for 3 years because of how far he ran into the ground. Contract extensions for 3 win ACC seasons because of how far he ran it into the ground? 3.2 mill? Build your team from scratch? They almost landed the HOTTEST coaching candidate there was in Hurley despite what many of you consider “limitations” to the job.

Here’s my reasoning. Feel free to disagree. But let’s say one more year of Stallings doing Stallings things and we’re at about a nice 6-48 ACC record.

If I’m an up and coming coach why would I risk my future on turning that around? If I fail, I’m probably done being a HC for awhile. Sure I might get more money up front to coach Pitt but it’s more of a gamble for my long term success.

Using Nate Oats at Alabama as the example, he took over a team that was around 500 in their league for multiple years in a row, and an easier conference to rise up in. Easy choice for what’s safer for his career.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Here’s my reasoning. Feel free to disagree. But let’s say one more year of Stallings doing Stallings things and we’re at about a nice 6-48 ACC record.

If I’m an up and coming coach why would I risk my future on turning that around? If I fail, I’m probably done being a HC for awhile. Sure I might get more money up front to coach Pitt but it’s more of a gamble for my long term success.

Using Nate Oats at Alabama as the example, he took over a team that was around 500 in their league for multiple years in a row, and an easier conference to rise up in. Easy choice for what’s safer for his career.

Plus he went to a school that winning athletic events is important to them !

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If it was that easy to lure a top coach to Pitt it would’ve been done . A filled Pete combined with increasing donations easily would pay any premium needed to pay .

I know this will never happen but Brad Stevens is making less than $4 million/year which seems extremely low. If Pitt offered him $10 million/year for 6 years would he turn that down? Of course Pitt isnt going to do that. This is an extreme example but if you pay enough, you could get anybody.

Nate Oats is making 3.2 now. If you paid him 5.5-6, he'd take it. Again, that will never happen but I hate when I hear "Pitt can never get a good coach to come here." What you should say is "Pitt is not willing to pay enough to get a good coach to come here."

 

[NCanton Panther]

I think his on-court resume is nearing a failing grade, they should be better in year 3. It’s still impressive though he even recruited the talent he did so early in his tenure here. Not getting a lot out of most of that talent is on him though.

On the slight chance that both Toney and Champagnie return next season, things are a lot different. It’s still a team that should be in the tournament. If they’re both gone, yeah it could be really ugly. And I honestly don’t know what you do at that point.

It’s probably most logical to chalk it up as a group of kids that didn’t mesh and see what Capel can do in the next year, maybe 2. But if the core of Jeffress, Femi, and whoever they end up bringing in in the ‘21 class look as disjointed as the first 3 Capel teams... I think that would be a pretty clear indicator that Capel’s coaching is the issue.

I’m not sure what you’re seeing to say they take team that should be in the tournament next year if Champ and Toney return?