Some things I'd like to get off of my chest, 2nd edition...

[YourPittDanceTeam]

- I am so tired of hearing MLB players whining about the Houston Astros stealing their signs. If you don't want another team to steal your signs, get better at hiding them. Also, any that tries to retaliate against an Astros player by throwing at him, should be fined and suspended immediately.
- In the last 10 days, I've watched three NCAA basketball teams out play their opponent for the first 35 minutes of a game and then blow their lead and lose because they decided to slow the games down by "running clock". If you have out played your opponent for the first 35 minutes and have a double digit lead, continue to play that way to the end of the game. In the three games that I watched, two of them lost because of slowing the game down.
- While I do like some of the new things that the XFL has put into their games (the kickoffs and the options on the extra points) it is still a much lower level of football then I expected to see played. I think that a average NCAA D-I football program could compete with all of the XFL teams and win games.
- The NCAA investigation, rulings and punishment placed upon the football and basketball programs are a waste of time and money. Why even issue a news release on the subject, other then to embarrass a couple of coaches and the school.
- Heard a couple of people talking how bad it is that Pitt can't get the top local football talent to stay home and play at Pitt. Who cares??? Give me the players that schools like Florida and Miami don't want.
-Lastly, nice to see Alexander Ovechkin score his 700th goal in his NHL career. Pittsburgher's don't need to like the man, but they should respect the man for his talent and skills. By the time he is done playing, he may be may very well be the NHL goal scoring leader. Congratulations, Ovie.

 

[kyfra]

I hope Altuve wears about 50 fastballs on his ribcage.

 

[wbrpanther]

I hope Altuve wears about 50 fastballs on his ribcage.

I am hoping that anyone who throws at these guys were never on a team that tried to steal signs. Because that team never existed. People are pissed because the Astros got more technical about it.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I am hoping that anyone who throws at these guys were never on a team that tried to steal signs. Because that team never existed. People are pissed because the Astros got more technical about it.

Because they cheated and were caught

The mlb commish completely botched this

 

[TFBaum]

I hope Altuve wears about 50 fastballs on his ribcage.

You are kidding me. Are you telling me that this was a secret and the other teams didn’t know. Where is it in the rules that you can’t steal signs? Football teams should stop watching film. Are you telling me that football teams don’t apply probably analysis? If they don’t they are fools.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I would be disgusted if an Astro isn’t beaned I’m the first pitch of the first game. If an opposing pitcher doesn’t hit the first Astro on opening day, he’s a disgrace.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I hope Altuve wears about 50 fastballs on his ribcage.

It would be quite an indictment on baseball if he doesn’t get hit at a record pace.

 

[Mikefln]

1) stealing signs have always been apart of baseball. The issue I have and I believe most people have is the use of tech to do it.

2) When talking about the level of play in the XFL people need to remember this is year 1. This is the first time every player on the team is playing with everyone. This is not like pros or even college, were the majority of players are already in the system and there are few new guys. The XFL, they are all new guys. I bet the level of play next year will be improved, and by year 3 it will be very strong.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

 

[9nationalchampionships]

I got allot of problems with you people!

 

[TFBaum]

I got allot of problems with you people!

How so?

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Sorry just quoting Frank Costanza

How so?

 

[TFBaum]

Sorry just quoting Frank Costanza

Okay good line lol

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

1) stealing signs have always been apart of baseball. The issue I have and I believe most people have is the use of tech to do it.

2) When talking about the level of play in the XFL people need to remember this is year 1. This is the first time every player on the team is playing with everyone. This is not like pros or even college were the majority of players are already in the system and there are few new guys. The XFL they are all new guys. I bet the level of play next year will be improved, and by year 3 it will be very strong.

#1 is correct. In addition if I recall correctly there was an edict from the commissioners office addressing that exact thing. Likely because it was well known that’s what they were doing.

When teams get caught or even suspected doing it the old fashioned way they sometimes get plunked then too. Or at be a well timed hard slide. But the tech thing was a bridge too far for everyone but they continued even after being told to stop.

 

[anon_d97v9o3a8b6xr]

I'm tired of hearing what Lebron has to say about the Astros.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I'm tired of hearing what Lebron has to say about anything.

Fixed

 

[CJsE]

- I am so tired of hearing MLB players whining about the Houston Astros stealing their signs. If you don't want another team to steal your signs, get better at hiding them. Also, any that tries to retaliate against an Astros player by throwing at him, should be fined and suspended immediately.

It's not about just stealing signs, it's using technology to relay that information to the batters. Stealing signs has always been a thing in baseball, but you didn't have cameras zoomed in on a catcher's fingers streamed to someone sitting in an office who then alerts the dugout, or directly to a rumble pad as has been alleged, all before a pitcher can throw the ball.

Baseball had to crack down on this, not nearly enough in my opinion, because using cameras, backroom people sitting at a computer, and an algorithm or a machine-learning program would make it impossible to hide your signs unless you changed them every inning in every game.

 

[YourPittDanceTeam]

I would be disgusted if an Astro isn’t beaned I’m the first pitch of the first game. If an opposing pitcher doesn’t hit the first Astro on opening day, he’s a disgrace.

So, for something that has been going on in baseball for DECADES, you want some obnoxious, over paid douchebag of a pitcher to throw a hard round object at another human being from 60' 6" away, with the intent of hitting him because his team stole signs better then his???
C'mon man!!!

 

[HailToPitt725]

Because they cheated and were caught

The mlb commish completely botched this

Yup, just like he’s botched just about everything as commissioner. Astros, playoff reform, minor league, etc. Also, funny how the Yankees have yet to receive punishment for cheating. Guess Beltran only cheated in Houston...

 

[4Mark_Marty]

I got allot of problems with you people!

And you Kruger!! You couldn’t smooth a silk shirt..if you had a date wit a babe..... uhhh I lost my train of thought!!

 

[TJFAIRLIE]

They didn’t steal signs “better”. They used their building, something the visiting team couldn’t do. They used their IT guys, something the visiting team couldn’t do.

Stealing and relaying signs from second base is an accepted “part of the game” because anyone can do it and there are reasonable defenses against it.

They didn’t run a video feed to the opposing dugout. This is absolute cheating and a complete display of disrespect for their opponents, gamesmanship and the game of baseball.

It’s nowhere near the level of tactical advantages that you’re referencing has been going on for decades.

It’s one thing for us fans or the pundits to have opinions either way, but every other player in the game is telling us they crossed the line, they broke the trust.

So, for something that has been going on in baseball for DECADES, you want some obnoxious, over paid douchebag of a pitcher to throw a hard round object at another human being from 60' 6" away, with the intent of hitting him because his team stole signs better then his???
C'mon man!!!

 

[kyfra]

You are kidding me. Are you telling me that this was a secret and the other teams didn’t know. Where is it in the rules that you can’t steal signs? Football teams should stop watching film. Are you telling me that football teams don’t apply probably analysis? If they don’t they are fools.

So you were totally cool with the Patriots and spygate then right?

 

[jtownknowitall]

I would be disgusted if an Astro isn’t beaned I’m the first pitch of the first game. If an opposing pitcher doesn’t hit the first Astro on opening day, he’s a disgrace.

I would then hope the Astro pitcher (remember they have pitchers too) facing Mike Trout in the seventh inning of that same game, gets one in on his hands and breaks his wrist, knocking him out for six to eight weeks.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I would then hope the Astro pitcher (remember they have pitchers too) facing Mike Trout in the seventh inning of that same game, gets one in on his hands and breaks his wrist, knocking him out for six to eight weeks.

Which can happen
All because manfred was impotent in his response

the commish failed here- so the players will self police

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

You are kidding me. Are you telling me that this was a secret and the other teams didn’t know. Where is it in the rules that you can’t steal signs? Football teams should stop watching film. Are you telling me that football teams don’t apply probably analysis? If they don’t they are fools.

No, football teams definitely try to figure out each other’s respective systems. However, as with baseball, it is illegal for them to train cameras on the other teams’ sideline.

That’s exactly why the Patriots were being investigated this year. The Bengals caught them redhanded recording their signals.

 

[wbrpanther]

It's not about just stealing signs, it's using technology to relay that information to the batters. Stealing signs has always been a thing in baseball, but you didn't have cameras zoomed in on a catcher's fingers streamed to someone sitting in an office who then alerts the dugout, or directly to a rumble pad as has been alleged, all before a pitcher can throw the ball.

Baseball had to crack down on this, not nearly enough in my opinion, because using cameras, backroom people sitting at a computer, and an algorithm or a machine-learning program would make it impossible to hide your signs unless you changed them every inning in every game.

So cheating is OK as long as you don't get too technical about it.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

My only remaining problem with the sign stealing scandal, that I can’t quite reconcile, is why couldn’t the umpires hear what was happening? That part doesn’t make any sense to me.

Their job is to administrate a fair baseball game and if everyone else could hear these loud banging some drums, why couldn’t they also hear the banging drums?

Also, why couldn’t the other teams hear the banging drums? I get the buzzer part. That’s a whole different level of sinister, if true. However, this all started over banging drums.

It just seems to me like other teams could have easily figured that out and just as easily figured out a workaround.

All of that information taken together leads me to believe that cheating must become rampant in the sport and there are so many different systems going on that the umpires don’t want to get involved.

 

[tweller]

So cheating is OK as long as you don't get too technical about it.

It’s called gamesmanship.

yes.

if one team can figure out tendencies and such no problem.

using a trash can and a HOME video system. Big problem

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

As for the XFL, the only thing I can't quite understand about it is why are people taking this whole thing so seriously in the first place?

I am sincerely mystified as to what path people see to success for this league because I just don’t see it.

I mean does anyone really think this is going to last long? If so, why on earth would you think that?

I have nothing against it and if people want to watch minor-league football, more power to them. However, I think there’s a reason why AAA baseball and the NBA‘s developmental league are not big television hits and I think this is on that same plane.

Honestly, it may not even be on that level because pro football already has a minor-league sport that gets plenty of attention – it is called College Football.

Now, you want to have two levels of minor-league football being broadcast nationally every week? Do you think people are going to watch it because you have different rules in place for onside kicks and two point conversions? That seems completely preposterous to me.

If people have watched Matt McGloin play, they realize he stinks. What difference does it make if his uniform is neon green and purple? The same goes for Landry Jones. If he stinks, he stinks. We are gambling that people are going to love a two-point conversion rule so much that they’re willing to put up with that?

That is a cuckoo theory.

I get that ESPN and Fox and the WWE all really want this thing to work, so it’s going to be given every opportunity in the world to fail. However, at the end of the day, that’s only going to mean that three very powerful entities all lost a hell of a lot of money investing in something that never had any real chance to work because there’s just no public appetite for it.

 

[drp1tt]

I am hoping that anyone who throws at these guys were never on a team that tried to steal signs. Because that team never existed. People are pissed because the Astros got more technical about it.

Technical? Banging sounds on a garbage can? Lol. But I get the point. If u r on the bases u can steal the signs but u can’t if not. Kind of stupid in my opinion.

 

[PittFamily2]

Technical? Banging sounds on a garbage can? Lol. But I get the point. If u r on the bases u can steal the signs but u can’t if not. Kind of stupid in my opinion.

The Pirates had the same sign steaming scam but Nutting purchased plastic cans because they were cheap so it didn't work well.

 

[TFBaum]

No, football teams definitely try to figure out each other’s respective systems. However, as with baseball, it is illegal for them to train cameras on the other teams’ sideline.

That’s exactly why the Patriots were being investigated this year. The Bengals caught them redhanded recording their signals.

That’s why I suggested you put headphones in everyone helmet and headphones in baseball no more signs

 

[RaleighPittFan]

As for the XFL, the only thing I can't quite understand about it is why are people taking this whole thing so seriously in the first place?

I am sincerely mystified as to what path people see to success for this league because I just don’t see it.

I mean does anyone really think this is going to last long? If so, why on earth would you think that?

I have nothing against it and if people want to watch minor-league football, more power to them. However, I think there’s a reason why AAA baseball and the NBA‘s developmental league are not big television hits and I think this is on that same plane.

Honestly, it may not even be on that level because pro football already has a minor-league sport that gets plenty of attention – it is called College Football.

Now, you want to have two levels of minor-league football being broadcast nationally every week? Do you think people are going to watch it because you have different rules in place for onside kicks and two point conversions? That seems completely preposterous to me.

If people have watched Matt McGloin play, they realize he stinks. What difference does it make if his uniform is neon green and purple? The same goes for Landry Jones. If he stinks, he stinks. We are gambling that people are going to love a two-point conversion rule so much that they’re willing to put up with that?

That is a cuckoo theory.

I get that ESPN and Fox and the WWE all really want this thing to work, so it’s going to be given every opportunity in the world to fail. However, at the end of the day, that’s only going to mean that three very powerful entities all lost a hell of a lot of money investing in something that never had any real chance to work because there’s just no public appetite for it.

The only thing they're betting on, is that there's enough demand for a late winter / early spring football league.

I would never make that bet.

 

[BFo8]

I played Astros hit by pitches under 83.5, think it’s an overreaction to all the talk. Expect to see one beanball war early and that will be it.

The league average is about 66, which coincidentally was the number of Astros that were hit by pitch last year as well. I think with Dusty Baker as manager there may be a slight uptick as he tends to manage a little more aggressively than most, but not enough to push them over what I see as an overinflated total.

 

[CJsE]

My only remaining problem with the sign stealing scandal, that I can’t quite reconcile, is why couldn’t the umpires hear what was happening? That part doesn’t make any sense to me.

Their job is to administrate a fair baseball game and if everyone else could hear these loud banging some drums, why couldn’t they also hear the banging drums?

Also, why couldn’t the other teams hear the banging drums? I get the buzzer part. That’s a whole different level of sinister, if true. However, this all started over banging drums.

It just seems to me like other teams could have easily figured that out and just as easily figured out a workaround.

All of that information taken together leads me to believe that cheating must become rampant in the sport and there are so many different systems going on that the umpires don’t want to get involved.

It wasn't only banging on trash cans, they used multiple methods to relay information. Sometimes it was whistling or shouting from the dugout. Banging on trash cans is just the most popular example because of the youtube video that was created when the scandal started.

As far as a work around, there is only so complicated that you can get with your hand signals. A algorithm is going to be able to break that down in 15-30 pitches, so you'd have to change it constantly.

 

[CJsE]

For those wondering how hard it would be to keep your signs secret from a person sitting at a computer, here is a video breaking down how easy it is to steal simple signs. He released an app that you could use to break down steal signs within a few innings using his algorithm. He also had someone create a machine learning program that could break down a signing system with 50 different variables and it did it in 3 minutes (although he doesn't say how many sequences it needed to do so).


And here is a project by MIT students that break down more complicated methods that could be used to hide signs, like assigning values based on pitch count or the player's jersey or both. But most would still be broken within the span of 3 games using the same sign and once broken the algorithm would be able to detect which system they are using within a few batters if they ever used it again in the future.

http://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.857/2018/project/mlancast-samird-mtwu-Baseball.pdf

These are things that wouldn't be possible by a human and isn't something the game has had to deal with for the past 100+ years as some have alleged.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

So cheating is OK as long as you don't get too technical about it.

Standing on second base watching the catchers signals is not cheating. Everyone can see that guy standing out there and everyone knows that he's looking. There is no rule against standing there (in fact it's kind of required) and there is no rule against looking at the catcher when he gives the signs. It's no different than a football team watching a team signaling in plays and figuring out what the signals mean. If you are going to display your signs in a manner that you know that people just standing there can see them then it's not cheating if they actually look at the signs.

On the other hand, using cameras and computers in a fashion that your opponent does not have access to in a manner that your opponent can not see or know that you are doing and that you yourself has no ability to replicate most certainly is cheating. The equivalent in football would be if the visiting team had to signal the plays in by hand but the home team was using headsets and earpieces to call in the plays, even though the rules specifically said that it wasn't allowed.

I mean it seems as if some of you missed the whole thing where MLB told all the teams that doing what the Astros did was specifically against the rules and would be punished harshly if anyone was caught doing it.

 

[Blue Goose]

talked to a gentleman that made the show. he said stealing signs was going on 25 to 30 years ago. whats the big deal???? the astros were just better than anyone else.

 

[BFo8]

talked to a gentleman that made the show. he said stealing signs was going on 25 to 30 years ago. whats the big deal???? the astros were just better than anyone else.

Actually the first documented case of sign stealing by electronic means was by the Phillies in 1900.

 

[wbrpanther]

Standing on second base watching the catchers signals is not cheating. Everyone can see that guy standing out there and everyone knows that he's looking. There is no rule against standing there (in fact it's kind of required) and there is no rule against looking at the catcher when he gives the signs. It's no different than a football team watching a team signaling in plays and figuring out what the signals mean. If you are going to display your signs in a manner that you know that people just standing there can see them then it's not cheating if they actually look at the signs.

On the other hand, using cameras and computers in a fashion that your opponent does not have access to in a manner that your opponent can not see or know that you are doing and that you yourself has no ability to replicate most certainly is cheating. The equivalent in football would be if the visiting team had to signal the plays in by hand but the home team was using headsets and earpieces to call in the plays, even though the rules specifically said that it wasn't allowed.

I mean it seems as if some of you missed the whole thing where MLB told all the teams that doing what the Astros did was specifically against the rules and would be punished harshly if anyone was caught doing it.

Teams change up there signals so when the other team sees them they have to figure out what they are. Stealing signs is stealing signs. It's frowned on but has been happening forever. Like I said the Astros got too technical. My point is why hit a batter when you try to do the same thing.