SP-one year later
- Thread starter TIGER-PAUL
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Good and bad. As Ben Howland said when asked last year, Pitt would have been in the American Whatever conference without Pederson.
But as in most things there is an expiration date and Pederson reached his. The buck stops with him for the mediocrity that resulted with the decision to fire the Wann. Although Nordenberg and Cochran should get a share of the blame as well (plus Dellavade? for listening to his buddy Alverez and insisting on Chryst). Not as bad as everyone likes to portray here but definitely was time to go.
But as in most things there is an expiration date and Pederson reached his. The buck stops with him for the mediocrity that resulted with the decision to fire the Wann. Although Nordenberg and Cochran should get a share of the blame as well (plus Dellavade? for listening to his buddy Alverez and insisting on Chryst). Not as bad as everyone likes to portray here but definitely was time to go.
I think you hit the nail on the head. His first stint here was largely positive. I agree with BH, if it weren't for Pederson Pitt football was on the fast track to becoming Fordham-esque and basketball would have continued to crumble to the point where Pitt and Duquense would have been on par.
His second stint was far less positive. Granted the development of the Petersen Sports Complex was a feather in his cap. But by and large his inability to handle key personnel issues and the wanton alienation of large portions of the fan base were his demise. If not for the protection of Nordy, he would have been out of a job the same day of Freddy Kruger famous crumpled suit presser. That was a pathetic reflection on his administrative abilities.
This is laughable. How would Howland know seeing he hasn't been around the burgh in 10+ years? Until someone points me to something substantive, I'll continue to believe his contribution was marginal.
To the OP, overrated, wrecked the football program, and glad he's gone. There were a lot of ballwashers on this board five years ago, now you could not fill a dinghy with them.
How is going from no bowl games and losing records in the early-mid 90's to bowl games and winning records wrecking the program? He failed to elevate the program after firing Wannstedt, that was his greatest sin. Why fire the Wann if the commitment wasn't there to do something better? But he wasn't alone in failing to elevate.....Nordy, Cochran, etc were equally culpable.
But football hardly is/was a wreck. UCF or Kansas is the defintion of a wreck.
I never bought into the Pederson saved Pitt athletics narrative either. I think it is something people cling to so as to not have to admit that they were taken.
Pitt is what got Pitt into the ACC, not the slick salesmanship of any one person. Do you have any idea how much research goes into a multi-billion dollar decision like this? There is not enough wool in this world to pull over anyone's eyes for decisions like this. It is all about an institution's profile, both athletically and academically. It is also about how attractive television partners find a particular school.
Our fans are self-loathing so they can't bring themselves to admit this but Pittsburgh is a very attractive market and our school is very well regarded. Now, market-wise, Pitt is not exactly New York City and academically speaking, Pitt isn't going to make anyone forget about Stanford or Northwestern.
However, when compared to the rest of the expansion candidates out there, we were pretty clearly at or near the top of the heap among potential candidates - which is why the Big 12 and the ACC both wanted Pitt.
Honestly, I think he did a dreadful job and destroyed a lot of our programs. I'll elaborate on that later as I don't have the time to get into right now.
Pitt is what got Pitt into the ACC, not the slick salesmanship of any one person. Do you have any idea how much research goes into a multi-billion dollar decision like this? There is not enough wool in this world to pull over anyone's eyes for decisions like this. It is all about an institution's profile, both athletically and academically. It is also about how attractive television partners find a particular school.
Our fans are self-loathing so they can't bring themselves to admit this but Pittsburgh is a very attractive market and our school is very well regarded. Now, market-wise, Pitt is not exactly New York City and academically speaking, Pitt isn't going to make anyone forget about Stanford or Northwestern.
However, when compared to the rest of the expansion candidates out there, we were pretty clearly at or near the top of the heap among potential candidates - which is why the Big 12 and the ACC both wanted Pitt.
Honestly, I think he did a dreadful job and destroyed a lot of our programs. I'll elaborate on that later as I don't have the time to get into right now.
"Dr. von Yinzer, post: 644645, member: 3314"]I never bought into the Pederson saved Pitt athletics narrative either. I think it is something people cling to so as to not have to admit that they were taken.
Superb view but I still give Steve credit for helping to turn around Pitt in 1996 even with making some mistakes the same way he made mistakes later at Nebraska with more emphasis on his own self-serving ego and management consultants ahead of both University.
In 1996, Pitt Athletics especially then Football Program, was so low with just 60 Scholarships Players and and hard to fine any Coach that wanted the job, plus needing New Facilities, and did a good job in that era, but was paid well to do it too, and that was his job.
Pitt is what got Pitt into the ACC, not the slick salesmanship of any one person. Do you have any idea how much research goes into a multi-billion dollar decision like this? There is not enough wool in this world to pull over anyone's eyes for decisions like this. It is all about an institution's profile, both athletically and academically. It is also about how attractive television partners find a particular school.
I credit Nordenberg more than anyone when he rebuilt Pitt Athletics with Pederson 1996-2002, especially choosing good coaches recommended, by Sonny Vaccarro in Basketball, And Walt Harris did a very good job on a shoestring budget. Along with getting the Commonwealth to help pay for New Facilities. Unfortunately, off Campus but still got done.
Additionally, after Pederson left Pitt in 2002 Nordenberg was the Keystone to help the Big East keep its BCS Bowl Bid through BEC Conference Expansion that Tranghese was ignoring. Nordenberg chossing Long that brought back Pitt from Pittsburgh, and choosing Jamie Dixon and Dave Wannstedt were bold moves at a tough time for BEC & PITT. And all three improved Coaching Salaries, Recruiting Relationships, Award Winning Players and Wins in the Top Sports without Pederson being there? After Howland and Pederson abandon Pitt for their Dream Jobs! And Walt Harris's Agent was forlorn and burned out Harris's career at Pitt?
These changes came upon Pitt and all Big East Schools and at a time when the Best Minds had to prevail with less resources and outside events they could not always control.
Once again, like in 1996, Nordenberg responded and did great as far as I am concern. And in my opinion, had his sights on the ACC or Big Ten for the future by making sure Wannstedt and Dixon got the resources without Pederson being here?
Our fans are self-loathing so they can't bring themselves to admit this but Pittsburgh is a very attractive market and our school is very well regarded.
Absolutely Correct, and Pederson turned many them off like he did at Nebraska with his own Alumni and Boosters and replacing Traditions well making himself Sports Emperor with his Mismanaged Consultants that got him fired by Pederson's fellow Alumni that put a movement together to remove him.
This proved Pederson was never able to build Pitt into a Top 25 Program because he could not maintain a Top 25 Program at Nebraska with all the resources already there?
Now, market-wise, Pitt is not exactly New York City and academically speaking, Pitt isn't going to make anyone forget about Stanford or Northwestern.
Yet, Pitt has more in common with these Schools size wise and student urban, and less than 3% State Budget wise, wise than large Public Universities with bigger student populations. If Baylor, TCU, UCLA, and even Temple coul rebuild and prospers so could Pitt. Pederson was incapable of doing that Nebraska and bringing him back was a mistake.
However, when compared to the rest of the expansion candidates out there, we were pretty clearly at or near the top of the heap among potential candidates - which is why the Big 12 and the ACC both wanted Pitt.
Yep, Pitt Football History and Traditions were always attractive, but bringing Pennsylvania TV Market Footprint made it more attractive just like Syracuse in New York too? If Paterno had Penn State had even consider the ACC which he did not do, and Penn State had been in the ACC, the Big ten would have taken Pitt as it it expanded, in my view. Just as they did Rutgers and Maryland.
Or as you say, the Big-12 with WVU, Cuse, and Pitt would have joined the Big-12 and possibly more BEC Schools? Making a Big-12 North!
Honestly, I think he did a dreadful job and destroyed a lot of our programs. I'll elaborate on that later as I don't have the time to get into right now.
Pederson caved in to moving Football Facilities off Campus something "Cas" always rejected. Pederson turned off major Boosters just like he did at Nebraska only caleld when he needed something. Changing the Pitt Brands from Pitt to Pittsburgh was his First Mistake, and refusing to change them back was his second.
Nordenberg did the best he could, but Nordy's bringing back Pederson was another mistakable decison and made worse keeping him after the Wanntedt firing and lying publicly about it, and multiple coaches debacles that destroyed many Recruiting classes, relationships with High School Coaches and made Pitt the joke of Coaches that come and go to advance themselves not Pitt just like Pederson did.
Giving Pederson a Million Dollar Extension and Buyout just weeks before Nordenberg was retiring was even worst and still turns off Pitt Boosters with Pederson's Poison of explaining how can you expect me to give thousands to Pitt football when you gave Pederson Millions of Pitt Athletic Money? Pitt could have built a Syracuse Dome right on Pitt Stadium Site with the cost over runs and leaking roofs Pederson mismanaged with Commonwealth Funding for Football & Basketball on Campus with UPMC Practice and Sports Rehab Facilities.
This is the Pederson Poison that Gallagher, Narduzzi, and Barnes now must overcome!
Superb view but I still give Steve credit for helping to turn around Pitt in 1996 even with making some mistakes the same way he made mistakes later at Nebraska with more emphasis on his own self-serving ego and management consultants ahead of both University.
In 1996, Pitt Athletics especially then Football Program, was so low with just 60 Scholarships Players and and hard to fine any Coach that wanted the job, plus needing New Facilities, and did a good job in that era, but was paid well to do it too, and that was his job.
Pitt is what got Pitt into the ACC, not the slick salesmanship of any one person. Do you have any idea how much research goes into a multi-billion dollar decision like this? There is not enough wool in this world to pull over anyone's eyes for decisions like this. It is all about an institution's profile, both athletically and academically. It is also about how attractive television partners find a particular school.
I credit Nordenberg more than anyone when he rebuilt Pitt Athletics with Pederson 1996-2002, especially choosing good coaches recommended, by Sonny Vaccarro in Basketball, And Walt Harris did a very good job on a shoestring budget. Along with getting the Commonwealth to help pay for New Facilities. Unfortunately, off Campus but still got done.
Additionally, after Pederson left Pitt in 2002 Nordenberg was the Keystone to help the Big East keep its BCS Bowl Bid through BEC Conference Expansion that Tranghese was ignoring. Nordenberg chossing Long that brought back Pitt from Pittsburgh, and choosing Jamie Dixon and Dave Wannstedt were bold moves at a tough time for BEC & PITT. And all three improved Coaching Salaries, Recruiting Relationships, Award Winning Players and Wins in the Top Sports without Pederson being there? After Howland and Pederson abandon Pitt for their Dream Jobs! And Walt Harris's Agent was forlorn and burned out Harris's career at Pitt?
These changes came upon Pitt and all Big East Schools and at a time when the Best Minds had to prevail with less resources and outside events they could not always control.
Once again, like in 1996, Nordenberg responded and did great as far as I am concern. And in my opinion, had his sights on the ACC or Big Ten for the future by making sure Wannstedt and Dixon got the resources without Pederson being here?
Our fans are self-loathing so they can't bring themselves to admit this but Pittsburgh is a very attractive market and our school is very well regarded.
Absolutely Correct, and Pederson turned many them off like he did at Nebraska with his own Alumni and Boosters and replacing Traditions well making himself Sports Emperor with his Mismanaged Consultants that got him fired by Pederson's fellow Alumni that put a movement together to remove him.
This proved Pederson was never able to build Pitt into a Top 25 Program because he could not maintain a Top 25 Program at Nebraska with all the resources already there?
Now, market-wise, Pitt is not exactly New York City and academically speaking, Pitt isn't going to make anyone forget about Stanford or Northwestern.
Yet, Pitt has more in common with these Schools size wise and student urban, and less than 3% State Budget wise, wise than large Public Universities with bigger student populations. If Baylor, TCU, UCLA, and even Temple coul rebuild and prospers so could Pitt. Pederson was incapable of doing that Nebraska and bringing him back was a mistake.
However, when compared to the rest of the expansion candidates out there, we were pretty clearly at or near the top of the heap among potential candidates - which is why the Big 12 and the ACC both wanted Pitt.
Yep, Pitt Football History and Traditions were always attractive, but bringing Pennsylvania TV Market Footprint made it more attractive just like Syracuse in New York too? If Paterno had Penn State had even consider the ACC which he did not do, and Penn State had been in the ACC, the Big ten would have taken Pitt as it it expanded, in my view. Just as they did Rutgers and Maryland.
Or as you say, the Big-12 with WVU, Cuse, and Pitt would have joined the Big-12 and possibly more BEC Schools? Making a Big-12 North!
Honestly, I think he did a dreadful job and destroyed a lot of our programs. I'll elaborate on that later as I don't have the time to get into right now.
Pederson caved in to moving Football Facilities off Campus something "Cas" always rejected. Pederson turned off major Boosters just like he did at Nebraska only caleld when he needed something. Changing the Pitt Brands from Pitt to Pittsburgh was his First Mistake, and refusing to change them back was his second.
Nordenberg did the best he could, but Nordy's bringing back Pederson was another mistakable decison and made worse keeping him after the Wanntedt firing and lying publicly about it, and multiple coaches debacles that destroyed many Recruiting classes, relationships with High School Coaches and made Pitt the joke of Coaches that come and go to advance themselves not Pitt just like Pederson did.
Giving Pederson a Million Dollar Extension and Buyout just weeks before Nordenberg was retiring was even worst and still turns off Pitt Boosters with Pederson's Poison of explaining how can you expect me to give thousands to Pitt football when you gave Pederson Millions of Pitt Athletic Money? Pitt could have built a Syracuse Dome right on Pitt Stadium Site with the cost over runs and leaking roofs Pederson mismanaged with Commonwealth Funding for Football & Basketball on Campus with UPMC Practice and Sports Rehab Facilities.
This is the Pederson Poison that Gallagher, Narduzzi, and Barnes now must overcome!
I prefer Big East basketball, but that's another story. Yes, entry into the ACC was a very good thing. I question how much a role Peterson personally played in it. IMHO, he didn't accomplish more than any one else who would have been in his position. Read Yinzer's post in this thread. He articulates it pretty well. Peterson is no savior as others would have you believe.
BTY, I know you are a film buff and recommend the whale movie. Nice twist on a great classic.
Dr. Von, I will gladly yell "Happy Anniversary" to us all, marking his much needed departure a year ago. He was a big problem that had to be removed when it happened.
But while I'll agree that "Pitt is what got us into the ACC" not a SP sales job, it was the Pitt that existed in 2012 that got us in. If the late 90s version were still around, we wouldn't have been invited. Fitzgerald was a joke of an arena for bball, Pitt Stadium was a poorly attended dump, the football facilities were a joke, and we had no or marginal teams and facilities in other sports.
SP didn't fix those things all by himself, but the dude does deserve some of the credit.
Oh, and I should've included the fact that our bball and football teams were also a complete joke then. And they were a joke in large part due to the crappy facilities which made recruiting nearly impossible. Which means (for those of you who think its all about TV ratings) that our ratings appeal was very low then.
And before I get accused of being an SP ball washer, I thought he was an arrogant prick, one who foolishly pissed off most of the people needed to move the department forward. So glad he is gone. I just don't have a black and white mindset about him.
While Steve may have done some good things during his first stint, one could argue that any competent AD hire would have done the same, or better.
I think too much credit is given if you say "HE" saved the program. I think HE could have been any number of people.
I think too much credit is given if you say "HE" saved the program. I think HE could have been any number of people.
Agree with this.
The Pennsylvania and New York TV Cable Footprint were important Factors getting into the ACC along with BC isolation.Pitt and Cuse and Notre dame fit the ACC School Size as well having more in common wuth schools like them, then larger Public Universities. In addition, the ACC ended Big East Basketball domination and Football Power Conference with the additions of Pitt, Cuse, that led to ULou and ND joining in all sports except Hockey but became Football related by playing 5 ACC Teams.
It forced the separation of of Big East Catholic Basketball Schools and AAC creation and expansion of secular Football/Basketball. WVU & TCU also joining the Big-12!
These were reasons why the ACC went North to Pennsylvania and New York and later to Kentucky and Notre Dame, as then the Big Ten went East to end Penn State isolation and added Rutgers and Maryland as well as New York City Big Ten Offices and State TV Footprints for Big Ten Network!
If anybody is crediting Pederson with all of this, they are doing a disservice to many other people that did most of it!
Pederson could not choose Football Coaches at Pitt or Nebraska let alone create a Blue Print for TV & Conference Expansions.
Pederson abandon Nordenberg and Pitt at its most critical time as well to fill his own dream$ and pocket$, at the expense of Fans and Universities only to return and fail at his own Alma Mater at Nebraska that hate him even worse than Pitt Fans today!
If anyone regrets Chancellor Gallagher's New Vision for Pitt Athletics after seeing 5 Coaches in 5 Years due to Pederson's mismanagement well, they are blinded by only seeing how much better Pitt in one year is better today without Pederson and Pitt is still removing Pederson's Poison remnants even today?
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thoughts?
Has been a wonderful year without him! Will likely take a couple of years to recover from many of his mistakes. People forget the guy was never an AD before Pitt, and based upon the market, appears most agree he should never be one again! Ding dong! Hail to Pitt!
I don't so long as it has nothing to impact on Pitt Athletics! I wonder how much Pederson ever donated with recycled Pitt Money? because many Pitt Alumnus still refuse to give money in their Wills leaving some to Pitt due to Pederson.
The one thing I'm happy with (one of many) with Barnes though, he said on the radio today he has had a talk with Dixon to make the OOC schedule for Pitt BB more interesting and challenging.
Quit pretending the bum had anything to do with that and neither did his incompetent boss. Pitt git into the ACC because of their past FB tradition
Yeah, the "new" allure of the Pete wore off several years ago. Much like football, Pittsburgh sports fans just are not interested in watching their team versus no-names or dregs--other than a group of hard core fans that go to every game. Basketball attendance this season has simply been awful. I'd very much like to see an upgraded basketball schedule--as I have not even been able to give away tickets to a couple games this season. Hail to Pitt!
I actually think his "greatest sin" was the alienation of large portions of previous Panther athletes and related people. I think it's a hell of a lot easier to find a good coach than it is to rebuild a base of fans and donors. He did have a good run the first time around, can't take that away from him. But wow, the second stint was just...just terrible. Like he was trying to lay out blueprints for a Business Management course on how not to do something.
Geez, even you have turned on him...LOL. They must be living a very solitary and sad life being hated by so many and not being able to appear at Pitt or Nebraska athletic events. Could not happen to a better couple. Hail to Pitt!
You know, it's quite funny-that my handle is what it is. It derives from way back in the day, college days, that people said I always walked around with a smile on my face. It just turns out that SP was labeled Smiley-and I don't really recall why he got that moniker. Maybe for the same reason, IDK.
Aside from that, I'll admit, I don't know to whom you refer to as a couple?
"smileyguy, post: 645590, member: 888"]I actually think his "greatest sin" was the alienation of large portions of previous Panther athletes and related people.
Agree, and Pederson did that at Pitt then Nebraska and Pitt again! He never made Pitt a Top 25 Program and did not maintain one at Nebraska, even with all the support, revenues, and winning tradition the Cornhuskers had before Pederson was hired.
In addition, word got out working under Pederson as a Head Coach in Football was not a desirable job, and few to fewer Top Coaches would not even interview??
Why Nordy could not see that is only a guess? In my opinion, Nordenberg should have worked hard to make Pederson the Assistant to the Big East Commissioner Marinotti who was buffoon! I think Steve was finshed as an Athletic Director afte his disaster at Nebraska! He should have went to Conference Management of TV Contracts and Budgets!
I think it's a hell of a lot easier to find a good coach than it is to rebuild a base of fans and donors.
Agree, but Pederson could not do that in Football Coaches at Pitt or Nebraska. Not after you isolate and treat Coaches you fire with disrespect and then only attract climbers and that can't wait to leave as soon as another position comes open.
He did have a good run the first time around, can't take that away from him. But wow, the second stint was just...just terrible. Like he was trying to lay out blueprints for a Business Management course on how not to do something.
In my opinion, Pederson should have just been a rebuilding Athletic Director going to Programs that need a turn around, build new facilities, and win then leave after 4 to 5 years for another one.
Pederson made Pitt a winning Program again but not every often in the Top 25 and could not maintain one that was higher in Resources either in the Top 25.
Agree, and Pederson did that at Pitt then Nebraska and Pitt again! He never made Pitt a Top 25 Program and did not maintain one at Nebraska, even with all the support, revenues, and winning tradition the Cornhuskers had before Pederson was hired.
In addition, word got out working under Pederson as a Head Coach in Football was not a desirable job, and few to fewer Top Coaches would not even interview??
Why Nordy could not see that is only a guess? In my opinion, Nordenberg should have worked hard to make Pederson the Assistant to the Big East Commissioner Marinotti who was buffoon! I think Steve was finshed as an Athletic Director afte his disaster at Nebraska! He should have went to Conference Management of TV Contracts and Budgets!
I think it's a hell of a lot easier to find a good coach than it is to rebuild a base of fans and donors.
Agree, but Pederson could not do that in Football Coaches at Pitt or Nebraska. Not after you isolate and treat Coaches you fire with disrespect and then only attract climbers and that can't wait to leave as soon as another position comes open.
He did have a good run the first time around, can't take that away from him. But wow, the second stint was just...just terrible. Like he was trying to lay out blueprints for a Business Management course on how not to do something.
In my opinion, Pederson should have just been a rebuilding Athletic Director going to Programs that need a turn around, build new facilities, and win then leave after 4 to 5 years for another one.
Pederson made Pitt a winning Program again but not every often in the Top 25 and could not maintain one that was higher in Resources either in the Top 25.
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Funny you should mention it, I knew Pitt Grad that is a Judge and called Pederson Smiley Face too all the time, and hated him!
I knew a Politician once that would smile anytime someone else told truth about him to his face, and he would just smile as Public Relation Image consulted taught him! He was finally thrown out of office after 18 year run, and everyone is glad he is gone too and everyone is smiles today when his name is brought up!
Now that should vindicate your Handle on the Lair now! Always enjoyed your posts!
I really have no idea why there is even a debate. First, he destroyed Nebraska, then came back here and destroyed Pitt.
Pitt, as many pointed out, was one if not the most attractive university coming out of the Big East. Our endowment and merit scholastically, I think was number one in the big east, and we have solid history in sports. There is no way we would not have ended up in a p5 conference... no way.
Outside of that, the guy was a buffoon. He was arrogant, did not have good relationships with coaches, and completely out of touch with what was needed to get people into football. Now basketball... yes, we made strides under him. Although, I dont know who would be the guy to claim that. The ACC is the best basketball conference around, but so was the Big East IMHO. The PEC is packed and the Zoo is nationally known. Kudos on that.
I dont know... I mean, I was around the whole time he was AD, and bless his heart and all, but the guy just didnt have it.
Pitt, as many pointed out, was one if not the most attractive university coming out of the Big East. Our endowment and merit scholastically, I think was number one in the big east, and we have solid history in sports. There is no way we would not have ended up in a p5 conference... no way.
Outside of that, the guy was a buffoon. He was arrogant, did not have good relationships with coaches, and completely out of touch with what was needed to get people into football. Now basketball... yes, we made strides under him. Although, I dont know who would be the guy to claim that. The ACC is the best basketball conference around, but so was the Big East IMHO. The PEC is packed and the Zoo is nationally known. Kudos on that.
I dont know... I mean, I was around the whole time he was AD, and bless his heart and all, but the guy just didnt have it.
No luck involved whatsoever-this is only a mystery to the lost generations who attended Pitt in the late 80's and early 90's, most of whom don't know squat about the history of Pitt FB.
Seriously? FB "tradition"? Granted we are Pitt fans but that is NOT the reason we got an ACC invite. I hate to break it to you, but we got the invite because the past administration built basketball and Olympic sport facilities, neither of which was easy and took many years and forethought. And LOL, many, many years of transitioning this from a regional school to a world class academic institution. I love how there are those who think the "Pitt" name just paved the way. Naive.
Well seeing as to how Del thinks that everything good that has ever happened at Pitt and everything good that might potentially happen in the future is all due to less than a decades worth of elite football that ended well over 30 years ago, it's easy to see how he comes by some of his ridiculous opinions.
