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SP-one year later

Well seeing as to how Del thinks that everything good that has ever happened at Pitt and everything good that might potentially happen in the future is all due to less than a decades worth of elite football that ended well over 30 years ago, it's easy to see how he comes by some of his ridiculous opinions.
But strangely the allure of that tradition when it was a decade more recent ... Wasn't compelling .

Somehow capital improvements and facilities upgrades , along with sustained academic growth and brand due to improved football and hoops were not important .

1975-1984 was the golden ticket.
 
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Man I had blessed this board with a 3 line masterpiece and it got erased. I understand, Chris, but don't act like you didn't laugh!
 
"pitt-girl, post: 646667, member: 1616"]Seriously? FB "tradition"? Granted we are Pitt fans but that is NOT the reason we got an ACC invite. I hate to break it to you, but we got the invite because the past administration built basketball and Olympic sport facilities, neither of which was easy and took many years and forethought. And LOL, many, many years of transitioning this from a regional school to a world class academic institution. I love how there are those who think the "Pitt" name just paved the way. Naive.
I agree in part but there are more reasons not just the few mention.

It also includes TV Cable Market Footprint in bringing Pennsylvania still counts even if Penn State has the bigger following. Just like Syracuse brings New York. Plus, both have been associated playing against one another and brought great traditions in Football and Basketball.

Also, similar in size with other ACC Schools and Academics and by taking Pitt & Cuse destroyed the Big East Basketball competition that was on par and exceeded ACC. Add in ULou and ND you get even more reasons.

Moreover, the first ACC Expansion was flawed because VT was not intended to go to the ACC it was Cuse according to Denver Based ACC Plan as well as Miami for Football that was dominating Recruiting, NFL Drafts, and Rankings. Once VT was added it became a FB Expansion even more.

At the same time, as you say it is only fair to credit Nordenberg and Pederson gets for rebuilding Pitt Programs into winning again, new facilities, Big East Best Record in Basketball since 2000 even without NCAA Tourney Final Four, but the Olympics Sports are far from great and Pitt only can afford the minimum.

However, Pederson still was not able to build Pitt into a Top 25 Football Program nor maintain Nebarska, and his Coaching Selection were horrible putting Pitt on Self-Imposed Sanctions, and why Pitt today has big problems convincing Recruits they have a Coach that wants to be at Pitt and will stay at Pitt!

Nordenberg clearly had getting out of the Big East and into the ACC as his priority even if Pederson could not improve money or fan support, but his same was on the door when it happen and get credit as far as I am concern. How much is a big question mark but still some it cannot be denied either?

Additionally, anytime Pederson name was mentioned it came with loud Boos!


In addition, after he was fired or forced to resign and the way it was announced at a Basketball Game at 7 PM came with great joy as well not just by Fans and Alumni but the Media too.

Furthermore, how fast a New Interim Athletic Director with inexperience in Athletics Programs was able to find a Coach for Chancellor Gallahger in weeks not months and that proved Pederson job was not that difficult at all either nor that important and the ACC Invite would have happen anyway? The ACC had to expand because their first Plan was flawed and changed and Big Ten and Sec going to 14 Teams as well, going after some of their Schools. Pederson had nothing to do with that fact.

This was confirmed when Maryland left and ND and ULou came in too, and their Footprint along with Basketball and Football were more important than any Olympic Sports?

Credt Pederson for rebuilding Pitt Football into a winner and Basketball into a Top 25 Ranked Teams, but after 2002, and Big East was raided, he was not at Pitt. Pitt was not invited into the ACC when Pederson was here and had those facilities built and Basketball Programs winning bigger than ever before. Thus, you can't claim it was just what you mentioned.

This is when Nordenberg gets the credit not Pederson.

Nordenberg promoted Jeff long that immediately change Pederson Failed Branding Pittsburgh back to PITT BLOCK!

Nordenberg, promoted Jamie Dixon as a young untested coach not Pederson and Dixon built Pitt basketball into a Big East Power that threaten the ACC like BEC did in the first 2000 decade.

Nordenberg refused to re-contract Walt Harris and encouraged Wannstedt to come to PITT and found a Booster willing to augments Staff Salaries.

Only after Pederson was fired at Nebarska in 5 minutes with great celebration in the entire state, and removed Nebarska from being a Top 25 Team, Nebraska joined the Big Ten without Pederson too???

As Pederson ended his career as a mediocre Athletic Director in Football and Basketball since he did not hire Dixon or Wannstedt!

Now you know all of the evaluations factors and there more outside factors that were unexpected and dealt with by Nordenberg then any one Pederson Factor you mentioned!

Yet, I can agree with some credit to Steve, but he also caused much troubles at Pitt that could have been easily avoided due to Pederson's bad judgement.

As for South Of Oakland, he was proven wrong many times on many subjects like the Script, Pitt to PITSBURGH to PITT, Claims Pederson did great at Nebraska, Chryst not needing a Special Teams Coach, lying about Barnes just having a Fan Committee like Pederson that never had one, was and blaming Pitt Fans for Non-Support when no Pitt fans biggest Boos were heard when Pederson name was mentioned in the Stadium or spoke?

Barnes has done more in 6 months to help create more Pitt support then Pederson ever did in 19 years, and Barnes listens to his Coaches and brought in a Great Soccer Coach!


Oh by the way, it is fact Pitt Football Tradition and Historical Records & Facts are right up there with any ACC Program and in many areas exceed most ACC Schools.

Pederson was hounded out of Nebraska and booed out of Pitt and cheered when announced and did not make a Top 25 Program at either School in FB or BB or Olympic Sports!

How do you know that????? Just ask yourself, are you glad Pederson is gone or do you still want him back at PITT????

I deeply respect your posts and fair opinions but THAT NAILS IT AS FAR AS I AM CONCERN!

If you answer is yes, then so be it! But few Pitt Posters, even fewer Fans and even fewer Alumni and the even media will not agree with that opinion and more are happy he gone and soon Pederson Poison will be gone too!


POSTPITTSCRIPT: No Nebraskan Fan or Alumni want Pederson back either and no other Schools want to hire Pederson nor credit him in doing a great job at either Unievrsity! NOW THAT NAILS IT EVEN MORE!
 
But strangely the allure of that tradition when it was a decade more recent ... Wasn't compelling .

Somehow capital improvements and facilities upgrades , along with sustained academic growth and brand due to improved football and hoops were not important .

1975-1984 was the golden ticket.
Nebraska had all the resources Pederson did not create there and Pederson did not keep them a Top 25 Program nor get them invited into the Big-Ten, and was fired.

The Fact that Pederson could not make a Top 25 Program nor keep a Top 25 Program and cheers were heard when he was fired at both schools for mismanagement made you wrong in 2002, 2007, and 2014?

Just tell us now, answer the question. DO YOU WANT PEDERSON BACK AT PITT BECAUSE IF HE WAS SO GREAT??? YOUR ANSWER IS YES, IS IT NOT????

What Pederson did in building any facilities off campus and a leaking one on campus way back in 2000, is 25 years old, just like you claims of Pitt Traditions 30 years old?


Conference expansion happen due to TV Cable Footprints Subscribers and far more important than anything Pederson did in 2000 at Pitt or 2002 at Nebraska?


 
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But strangely the allure of that tradition when it was a decade more recent ... Wasn't compelling .

Somehow capital improvements and facilities upgrades , along with sustained academic growth and brand due to improved football and hoops were not important .

1975-1984 was the golden ticket.
Only one huge problem with you thinking???

Pitt had returned to winning Football and Basketball and with New Facilities along with Pitt to PITTSBURGH New Branding, and yet, the ACC still did not invite Pitt to the ACC in 2003????

So, it was not all the factors you mentioned either when Pitt was invited in 2010 and the New Facilities were 10 years old, and Pittsburgh to PITT BLOCK Branding was changed before Pederson's return and Pederson Mediocre Coaching Mistakes Changes and Mediocre winning did not make Pitt an attractive Invite either?


It was Cable TV Market Subscribers not Pederson!

For one simple Fact, if you were correct then Pitt would have been invited in 2003 not 2010? BC had even less attendance and facilities, and was invited over Pitt in 2005?
 
The history is this:

Pitt got passed over by the Big Ten in 1950 for Michigan State, and that was after spending most of the 1940s putting its program under the auspices of Big Ten and adopting Big Ten purity rules (while other Big Ten schools completely flaunted them) and playing a largely Big Ten schedule. This only is a decade removed from Pitt's most dominant period of athletics, in all sports, in the 1920s and 30s.

In 1981, Pitt was invited to the Big East primarily to foil Joe Paterno's plan to steal Syracuse and Boston College for his own conference. It was not invited because of its basketball tradition or its secular heritage. It was a pure strategic move to keep the fledgling conference intact. The invite would not have come in a vacuum.

In the late 1980s, Pitt again was not selected for the Big Ten despite behind-the-scenes campaigning to come in with Penn State as #12. And keep in mind that was before media markets mattered for TV networks like they do now so there wasn't the concern over market duplication or a need to open new tv markets. This snub followed what was Pitt's second most dominant athletic period and was just over a decade removed from a national title.

By the mid-1990s, Pitt was coming of decades of facilities and athletic program neglect and meddling that culminated with one of the nation's worst combinations of football and basketball which was accompanied by a booster apparatus that was weak and scandal ridden, an athletic department that was literally in shambles, and a university that was in its own financially precarious situation with an apathetic student body, disenchanted faculty (with significant segments calling for Pitt to drop out of major football), and highlighted by the fact it was literally having trouble filling its beds. When the ACC was formulating its plan to raid the Big East and establish itself as the Eastern conference in the late 1990s and early 2000s, Pitt was never seriously considered.

Therefore, there is absolutely no historical evidence that Pitt would have gotten invited anywhere based on its name or tradition, at least through 2003.

In fact, I think it is more than safe to conclude that if conditions were near the same in 2011 as to those circa 1996, Pitt may not have been invited into the ACC. The collective stink of the athletic department, terrible local/regional support, and the abysmal athletic facilities of the 1990s certainly would have been enough for Pitt to have lost its Power Conference status. My goodness, BC with almost no sports history, was still line ahead of Pitt in the early 2000s. Internal conference politics played a little bit into that, but such was the condition of Pitt.

Not to be lost on here is that a primary reason the Big East was able to retain power conference status in 2003, following the ACC raid, was Nordenberg essentially taking over leadership of the football schools and holding the Big East together. It required a tremendous amount of effort. Otherwise, Pitt's status as a major player (as well as perhaps even that of SU and WVU) may have ended right there.

Without the new and renovated facilities (which were extensive and across almost all sports), the demonstrated enhanced financial commitment over prior administrations, the behind the scenes work to retain power conference status in the early/mid-2000s, and the proactive behind-the-scenes moves of the prior administration to look for new conference opportunities circa 2010-2011, it is far from a certainty Pitt would be where it is today... and where it is today is a place where its athletic revenue are up 35% due solely to moving into the ACC. This is why the last two years, and only why, Pitt has been able to spend more on coaches and facilities.

People have a right to dislike Pederson or Nordenberg for their personalities or decisions tearing down Pitt Stadium or messing with history in switching logos or bumbling coaching hires, but sometimes people are in the right place at just the right time and serve those circumstances well. The problems of the past 15 years were largely institutional in scale, not on the scale of logos or individual hires. Now circumstances have changed, and it is the perfect time for new blood and we might have gotten some of those new blood hires right.
 
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The history is this:

Pitt got passed over by the Big Ten in 1950 for Michigan State, and that was after spending most of the 1940s putting its program under the auspices of Big Ten and adopting Big Ten purity rules (while other Big Ten schools completely flaunted them) and playing a largely Big Ten schedule. This only is a decade removed from Pitt's most dominant period of athletics, in all sports, in the 1920s and 30s.

In 1981, Pitt was invited to the Big East primarily to foil Joe Paterno's plan to steal Syracuse and Boston College for his own conference. It was not invited because of its basketball tradition or its secular heritage. It was a pure strategic move to keep the fledgling conference intact. The invite would not have come in a vacuum.

In the late 1980s, Pitt again was not selected for the Big Ten despite behind-the-scenes campaigning to come in with Penn State as #12. And keep in mind that was before media markets mattered for TV networks like they do now so there wasn't the concern over market duplication or a need to open new tv markets. This snub followed what was Pitt's second most dominant athletic period and was just over a decade removed from a national title.

By the mid-1990s, Pitt was coming of decades of facilities and athletic program neglect and meddling that culminated with one of the nation's worst combinations of football and basketball which was accompanied by a booster apparatus that was weak and scandal ridden, an athletic department that was literally in shambles, and a university that was in its own financially precarious situation with an apathetic student body, disenchanted faculty (with significant segments calling for Pitt to drop out of major football), and highlighted by the fact it was literally having trouble filling its beds. When the ACC was formulating its plan to raid the Big East and establish itself as the Eastern conference in the late 1990s and early 2000s, Pitt was never seriously considered.

Therefore, there is absolutely no historical evidence that Pitt would have gotten invited anywhere based on its name or tradition, at least through 2003.

In fact, I think it is more than safe to conclude that if conditions were near the same in 2011 as to those circa 1996, Pitt may not have been invited into the ACC. The collective stink of the athletic department, terrible local/regional support, and the abysmal athletic facilities of the 1990s certainly would have been enough for Pitt to have lost its Power Conference status. My goodness, BC with almost no sports history, was still line ahead of Pitt in the early 2000s. Internal conference politics played a little bit into that, but such was the condition of Pitt.

Not to be lost on here is that a primary reason the Big East was able to retain power conference status in 2003, following the ACC raid, was Nordenberg essentially taking over leadership of the football schools and holding the Big East together. It required a tremendous amount of effort. Otherwise, Pitt's status as a major player (as well as perhaps even that of SU and WVU) may have ended right there.

Without the new and renovated facilities (which were extensive and across almost all sports), the demonstrated enhanced financial commitment over prior administrations, the behind the scenes work to retain power conference status in the early/mid-2000s, and the proactive behind-the-scenes moves of the prior administration to look for new conference opportunities circa 2010-2011, it is far from a certainty Pitt would be where it is today... and where it is today is a place where its athletic revenue are up 35% due solely to moving into the ACC. This is why the last two years, and only why, Pitt has been able to spend more on coaches and facilities.

People have a right to dislike Pederson or Nordenberg for their personalities or decisions tearing down Pitt Stadium or messing with history in switching logos or bumbling coaching hires, but sometimes people are in the right place at just the right time and serve those circumstances well. The problems of the past 15 years were largely institutional in scale, not on the scale of logos or individual hires. Now circumstances have changed, and it is the perfect time for new blood and we might have gotten some of those new blood hires right.

Thank you for providing your well-researched and objective input to this thread. I always appreciate when you share FACTS into a debate such as this.
 
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Thank you for providing your well-researched and objective input to this thread. I always appreciate when you share FACTS into a debate such as this.
Here are some facts for you. Since Pitt flushed the garbage down the toilet, the new admin. has done more to revive the FB program in less than one year than the aforementioned sad sack incompetents did during their entire decade and a half tenure! With the previous 2 bums in place, we wouldn't have been able to hire a first rate Fb coach, Pat Narduzzi, we wouldn't have won 8 regular season games and we would have never sold 8,000 bowl tickets! And we surely wouldn't be looking at the best FB recruiting class since long before the 2 bums in question assumed their positions. Pitt now has hope as regards establishing a first class athletic program where there was once despair owing to the incompetence and indifference of the past chancellor and his invidious crony. Chew on that, Mr. offensive efficiency statman.
 
Here are some facts for you. Since Pitt flushed the garbage down the toilet, the new admin. has done more to revive the FB program in less than one year than the aforementioned sad sack incompetents did during their entire decade and a half tenure! With the previous 2 bums in place, we wouldn't have been able to hire a first rate Fb coach, Pat Narduzzi, we wouldn't have won 8 regular season games and we would have never sold 8,000 bowl tickets! And we surely wouldn't be looking at the best FB recruiting class since long before the 2 bums in question assumed their positions. Pitt now has hope as regards establishing a first class athletic program where there was once despair owing to the incompetence and indifference of the past chancellor and his invidious crony. Chew on that, Mr. offensive efficiency statman.
A hoot!

You are a hoot!!
 
A hoot!

You are a hoot!!

It's hard to argue with Delpanthers observations of the past 15 years of Pitt's Administrative Blunders:
  • We will no longer be called Pitt. From now on it's "Pittsburgh".
  • "I have yet to meet anyone who doesn't Love Script Pitt" - Scott Barnes ( I guess Scott has yet to meet Steve Pederson or Mark Nordenberg ? )
  • DinoBeagle and TorchCut Letters - Perfect
  • Pitt Stadium , pfft. It needs to go. Everyone knows that Basketball is King. Forget the fact that it has an 8 Lane Track around it and 40 yards behind each end zone to the wall. It needs to go. We could never keep the shell, lose the track, move the football field to one end and build the basketball arena at the other. Tear that sucker down!
  • Steve, Good Luck at Nebraska.
  • Steve, I saw that press conference with Chancellor Perlman walking into a press conference to announce your firing and greeted by a rousing standing ovation. Hmmm. Nebraska is your alma mater right? Never mind, we'll take you back at Pitt.
  • Football has won 27 games in 3 years? Wannstadt you're fired. Recruits, pfft. who needs them? If they don't bounce a round ball who cares?
  • Meet our new coach, mIKE Haywood. He's cheap and thinks Freddie Kruegger is a motivational speaker. "He keeps coming back and back" Just like you Steve..
  • Meet our new, new coach Toddy Fraudy Graham. High Octane, Pedal Down, Don't worry about plays just run a route.
  • Fraudy, don't go. All that stuff we promised you we'll now consider doing it.
  • Hey, is Football Dead yet? What? It's still hanging on? Hire some cronies to hit social media hard ! Here's the message: "It's the fans fault, It's the fans fault".
  • Meet our new, new, new Football Coach Paul Chryst. Paul, it's O'K to speak. It's just the Press. Paul will you at least stay for more than 1 season? Great.
  • Hey, the Big12 wants us to join. Let's think about it.
  • Hey, the ACC just invited us. I guess they didn't want the Big12 to get a foothold in the Northeast. The ACC will be perfect. We accept. Syracuse too. Great!
  • Well time for me to retire boys. Before I go, Steve here's a 40% raise and a 5 year contract extension. We can't ante up the funds for a decent Defensive Coordinator but we can reward you. Jamie, here's a raise and a 10 year contract extension ! When was the last time you made the sweet 16? Nevermind. ( Anyone watch any Pitt home games this season? Did it remind anyone of the BJC? )
So yeah, Delpanther is a hoot.
 
It's hard to argue with Delpanthers observations of the past 15 years of Pitt's Administrative Blunders:
  • We will no longer be called Pitt. From now on it's "Pittsburgh".
  • "I have yet to meet anyone who doesn't Love Script Pitt" - Scott Barnes ( I guess Scott has yet to meet Steve Pederson or Mark Nordenberg ? )
  • DinoBeagle and TorchCut Letters - Perfect
  • Pitt Stadium , pfft. It needs to go. Everyone knows that Basketball is King. Forget the fact that it has an 8 Lane Track around it and 40 yards behind each end zone to the wall. It needs to go. We could never keep the shell, lose the track, move the football field to one end and build the basketball arena at the other. Tear that sucker down!
  • Steve, Good Luck at Nebraska.
  • Steve, I saw that press conference with Chancellor Perlman walking into a press conference to announce your firing and greeted by a rousing standing ovation. Hmmm. Nebraska is your alma mater right? Never mind, we'll take you back at Pitt.
  • Football has won 27 games in 3 years? Wannstadt you're fired. Recruits, pfft. who needs them? If they don't bounce a round ball who cares?
  • Meet our new coach, mIKE Haywood. He's cheap and thinks Freddie Kruegger is a motivational speaker. "He keeps coming back and back" Just like you Steve..
  • Meet our new, new coach Toddy Fraudy Graham. High Octane, Pedal Down, Don't worry about plays just run a route.
  • Fraudy, don't go. All that stuff we promised you we'll now consider doing it.
  • Hey, is Football Dead yet? What? It's still hanging on? Hire some cronies to hit social media hard ! Here's the message: "It's the fans fault, It's the fans fault".
  • Meet our new, new, new Football Coach Paul Chryst. Paul, it's O'K to speak. It's just the Press. Paul will you at least stay for more than 1 season? Great.
  • Hey, the Big12 wants us to join. Let's think about it.
  • Hey, the ACC just invited us. I guess they didn't want the Big12 to get a foothold in the Northeast. The ACC will be perfect. We accept. Syracuse too. Great!
  • Well time for me to retire boys. Before I go, Steve here's a 40% raise and a 5 year contract extension. We can't ante up the funds for a decent Defensive Coordinator but we can reward you. Jamie, here's a raise and a 10 year contract extension ! When was the last time you made the sweet 16? Nevermind. ( Anyone watch any Pitt home games this season? Did it remind anyone of the BJC? )
So yeah, Delpanther is a hoot.

You are a hoot too!
 
And proof how South of Oakland was so wrong about Pederson being a success at Nebraska, as they celebrated Stevie's Arrogance and Ignorance in Nebraska his own Alma Mater?
LINK:
http://www.omaha.com/huskers/former...cle_518c222e-864c-11e4-ad89-2faf37320361.html


As stated, Pederson could build Pitt into a Top 25 Program nor keep a Top 25 Program at Nebraska, anybody attempting to defend Stevie, has to admit they were wrong and should be glad he is gone too, except those South of Oakland he loves to mock other Posters, but only ends up mocking himself! A sign much like Pederson Personality did at Pitt & NU!
 
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Listen to the podcast, friend, if I'm slinging, I have a lot of company!
What you are is "entitled". Entitled to Nutting spending HIS money differently than you'd like. Are you with the IES?? Entitled to have the University spend money they don't have to field teams you sorta care about.
This isn't a claim that Pitt hasn't made huge mistakes....they have. But doing what most schools do for OOC scheduling is awful is pure nonsense. Tell us again all your fond memories of seeing lots of powerhouses on our OOC list?? I'd say a slate with the Zags, Purdue & Davidson is OK. Lots of the high profile early games are in those goofy "tournaments", on neutral courts. They count, too. The Burgh isn't a good hoops town....too many like you.
 
What you are is "entitled". Entitled to Nutting spending HIS money differently than you'd like. Are you with the IES?? Entitled to have the University spend money they don't have to field teams you sorta care about.
This isn't a claim that Pitt hasn't made huge mistakes....they have. But doing what most schools do for OOC scheduling is awful is pure nonsense. Tell us again all your fond memories of seeing lots of powerhouses on our OOC list?? I'd say a slate with the Zags, Purdue & Davidson is OK. Lots of the high profile early games are in those goofy "tournaments", on neutral courts. They count, too. The Burgh isn't a good hoops town....too many like you.

Entitled? What BS! What planet and universe are you from? I'm a fan pure and simple and I support my teams with time and money. In return I expect a bona fide effort from the teams I support to put the best possible product on the field that they can. If they aren't interested in being the best they can be, then they should come out and say so and stop defrauding and stealing from their supporters. Neither Pitt nor the Pirates have done that in the recent past and anyone who suggests otherwise is a complete moron. It's only taken about 8 months to show how hapless and incompetent nerdy and Pedersen were. Nutting is the worst owner in all of BB and you will see this up close and personal(in between gulping down big bites of that kielbasa that is more important to you than the team's performance) as the Pirates swirl down the toilet within the next 3 seasons.

On the scheduling, playing Gonzaga in an airplane hangar half way around the world isn't equivalent to playing them or a similar caliber team on your home court. This year's home schedule blows and the attendance unequivocally proves it. You think anyone gives a $hit about playing a backwater team like Davidson(Davidson?) in NY. Nobody gives a rat's behind what their RPI is. Nobody's excited at the prospect of Pitt playing Davidson. You're tone deaf they way Pedersen was which is why attendance is in the toilet. It's the sort of mindless and inflexible thinking you display that has Pitt in this attendance fix-keep blaming the fans...what a joke. Barnes understands the problem and he will pull your boy, JD, kicking and screaming into playing a representative schedule. And you're full of crap, because within the past 10 years Pitt has played home OOC games with Okie St. , Washington and FSU and played teams like Indiana, Stanford , Duke and Memphis St. in NY but that was before JD lost his nerve and started playing the RPI card to the hilt. No guts, no glory and no attendance! Good thing we have an AD now who has a hell of a lot more marketing savvy than you and your stat geek friends who "just go to watch Pitt play and who could care less (yawn) whether the the game they're watching is even competitive." All 5 of you will have a swell time together watching the upcoming hoops dramas against Western Carolina and Maryland Eastern Shore-how embarrassing-Pitt will have played every "directional school" in the US the last 3 seasons at the Pete, what a treat!
 
15c0de8b27af8152.jpg


Did you pay over $3k for your seats and never attended a game yet? Just sayin'! Cause I haven't made a BB game yet this season!

CO
 
Entitled? What BS! What planet and universe are you from? I'm a fan pure and simple and I support my teams with time and money. In return I expect a bona fide effort from the teams I support to put the best possible product on the field that they can. If they aren't interested in being the best they can be, then they should come out and say so and stop defrauding and stealing from their supporters. Neither Pitt nor the Pirates have done that in the recent past and anyone who suggests otherwise is a complete moron. It's only taken about 8 months to show how hapless and incompetent nerdy and Pedersen were. Nutting is the worst owner in all of BB and you will see this up close and personal(in between gulping down big bites of that kielbasa that is more important to you than the team's performance) as the Pirates swirl down the toilet within the next 3 seasons.

On the scheduling, playing Gonzaga in an airplane hangar half way around the world isn't equivalent to playing them or a similar caliber team on your home court. This year's home schedule blows and the attendance unequivocally proves it. You think anyone gives a $hit about playing a backwater team like Davidson(Davidson?) in NY. Nobody gives a rat's behind what their RPI is. Nobody's excited at the prospect of Pitt playing Davidson. You're tone deaf they way Pedersen was which is why attendance is in the toilet. It's the sort of mindless and inflexible thinking you display that has Pitt in this attendance fix-keep blaming the fans...what a joke. Barnes understands the problem and he will pull your boy, JD, kicking and screaming into playing a representative schedule. And you're full of crap, because within the past 10 years Pitt has played home OOC games with Okie St. , Washington and FSU and played teams like Indiana, Stanford , Duke and Memphis St. in NY but that was before JD lost his nerve and started playing the RPI card to the hilt. No guts, no glory and no attendance! Good thing we have an AD now who has a hell of a lot more marketing savvy than you and your stat geek friends who "just go to watch Pitt play and who could care less (yawn) whether the the game they're watching is even competitive." All 5 of you will have a swell time together watching the upcoming hoops dramas against Western Carolina and Maryland Eastern Shore-how embarrassing-Pitt will have played every "directional school" in the US the last 3 seasons at the Pete, what a treat!
He is right!
 
The history is this:

Pitt got passed over by the Big Ten in 1950 for Michigan State, and that was after spending most of the 1940s putting its program under the auspices of Big Ten and adopting Big Ten purity rules (while other Big Ten schools completely flaunted them) and playing a largely Big Ten schedule. This only is a decade removed from Pitt's most dominant period of athletics, in all sports, in the 1920s and 30s.

In 1981, Pitt was invited to the Big East primarily to foil Joe Paterno's plan to steal Syracuse and Boston College for his own conference. It was not invited because of its basketball tradition or its secular heritage. It was a pure strategic move to keep the fledgling conference intact. The invite would not have come in a vacuum.

In the late 1980s, Pitt again was not selected for the Big Ten despite behind-the-scenes campaigning to come in with Penn State as #12. And keep in mind that was before media markets mattered for TV networks like they do now so there wasn't the concern over market duplication or a need to open new tv markets. This snub followed what was Pitt's second most dominant athletic period and was just over a decade removed from a national title.

By the mid-1990s, Pitt was coming of decades of facilities and athletic program neglect and meddling that culminated with one of the nation's worst combinations of football and basketball which was accompanied by a booster apparatus that was weak and scandal ridden, an athletic department that was literally in shambles, and a university that was in its own financially precarious situation with an apathetic student body, disenchanted faculty (with significant segments calling for Pitt to drop out of major football), and highlighted by the fact it was literally having trouble filling its beds. When the ACC was formulating its plan to raid the Big East and establish itself as the Eastern conference in the late 1990s and early 2000s, Pitt was never seriously considered.

Therefore, there is absolutely no historical evidence that Pitt would have gotten invited anywhere based on its name or tradition, at least through 2003.

In fact, I think it is more than safe to conclude that if conditions were near the same in 2011 as to those circa 1996, Pitt may not have been invited into the ACC. The collective stink of the athletic department, terrible local/regional support, and the abysmal athletic facilities of the 1990s certainly would have been enough for Pitt to have lost its Power Conference status. My goodness, BC with almost no sports history, was still line ahead of Pitt in the early 2000s. Internal conference politics played a little bit into that, but such was the condition of Pitt.

Not to be lost on here is that a primary reason the Big East was able to retain power conference status in 2003, following the ACC raid, was Nordenberg essentially taking over leadership of the football schools and holding the Big East together. It required a tremendous amount of effort. Otherwise, Pitt's status as a major player (as well as perhaps even that of SU and WVU) may have ended right there.

Without the new and renovated facilities (which were extensive and across almost all sports), the demonstrated enhanced financial commitment over prior administrations, the behind the scenes work to retain power conference status in the early/mid-2000s, and the proactive behind-the-scenes moves of the prior administration to look for new conference opportunities circa 2010-2011, it is far from a certainty Pitt would be where it is today... and where it is today is a place where its athletic revenue are up 35% due solely to moving into the ACC. This is why the last two years, and only why, Pitt has been able to spend more on coaches and facilities.

People have a right to dislike Pederson or Nordenberg for their personalities or decisions tearing down Pitt Stadium or messing with history in switching logos or bumbling coaching hires, but sometimes people are in the right place at just the right time and serve those circumstances well. The problems of the past 15 years were largely institutional in scale, not on the scale of logos or individual hires. Now circumstances have changed, and it is the perfect time for new blood and we might have gotten some of those new blood hires right.
Nordenberg was great in crisis management, doing what's necessary to keep something alive and breathing. He was not good at getting excellence out of everyone of his direct reports. He picked and chose what was important. I cannot fault him alone. He made a few bad hires that make him appear slightly unsuccessful, which is definitely debatable in certain areas.
 
Nordenberg was great in crisis management, doing what's necessary to keep something alive and breathing. He was not good at getting excellence out of everyone of his direct reports. He picked and chose what was important. I cannot fault him alone. He made a few bad hires that make him appear slightly unsuccessful, which is definitely debatable in certain areas.
I can.
 
The history is this:

Pitt got passed over by the Big Ten in 1950 for Michigan State, and that was after spending most of the 1940s putting its program under the auspices of Big Ten and adopting Big Ten purity rules (while other Big Ten schools completely flaunted them) and playing a largely Big Ten schedule. This only is a decade removed from Pitt's most dominant period of athletics, in all sports, in the 1920s and 30s.

In 1981, Pitt was invited to the Big East primarily to foil Joe Paterno's plan to steal Syracuse and Boston College for his own conference. It was not invited because of its basketball tradition or its secular heritage. It was a pure strategic move to keep the fledgling conference intact. The invite would not have come in a vacuum.

In the late 1980s, Pitt again was not selected for the Big Ten despite behind-the-scenes campaigning to come in with Penn State as #12. And keep in mind that was before media markets mattered for TV networks like they do now so there wasn't the concern over market duplication or a need to open new tv markets. This snub followed what was Pitt's second most dominant athletic period and was just over a decade removed from a national title.

By the mid-1990s, Pitt was coming of decades of facilities and athletic program neglect and meddling that culminated with one of the nation's worst combinations of football and basketball which was accompanied by a booster apparatus that was weak and scandal ridden, an athletic department that was literally in shambles, and a university that was in its own financially precarious situation with an apathetic student body, disenchanted faculty (with significant segments calling for Pitt to drop out of major football), and highlighted by the fact it was literally having trouble filling its beds. When the ACC was formulating its plan to raid the Big East and establish itself as the Eastern conference in the late 1990s and early 2000s, Pitt was never seriously considered.

Therefore, there is absolutely no historical evidence that Pitt would have gotten invited anywhere based on its name or tradition, at least through 2003.

In fact, I think it is more than safe to conclude that if conditions were near the same in 2011 as to those circa 1996, Pitt may not have been invited into the ACC. The collective stink of the athletic department, terrible local/regional support, and the abysmal athletic facilities of the 1990s certainly would have been enough for Pitt to have lost its Power Conference status. My goodness, BC with almost no sports history, was still line ahead of Pitt in the early 2000s. Internal conference politics played a little bit into that, but such was the condition of Pitt.

Not to be lost on here is that a primary reason the Big East was able to retain power conference status in 2003, following the ACC raid, was Nordenberg essentially taking over leadership of the football schools and holding the Big East together. It required a tremendous amount of effort. Otherwise, Pitt's status as a major player (as well as perhaps even that of SU and WVU) may have ended right there.

Without the new and renovated facilities (which were extensive and across almost all sports), the demonstrated enhanced financial commitment over prior administrations, the behind the scenes work to retain power conference status in the early/mid-2000s, and the proactive behind-the-scenes moves of the prior administration to look for new conference opportunities circa 2010-2011, it is far from a certainty Pitt would be where it is today... and where it is today is a place where its athletic revenue are up 35% due solely to moving into the ACC. This is why the last two years, and only why, Pitt has been able to spend more on coaches and facilities.

People have a right to dislike Pederson or Nordenberg for their personalities or decisions tearing down Pitt Stadium or messing with history in switching logos or bumbling coaching hires, but sometimes people are in the right place at just the right time and serve those circumstances well. The problems of the past 15 years were largely institutional in scale, not on the scale of logos or individual hires. Now circumstances have changed, and it is the perfect time for new blood and we might have gotten some of those new blood hires right.

As stated, Pitt neglected their facilities and athletics programs for decades, even when the opportunity was there after football success. I'm guessing that lack of effort didn't look too good to the Big Ten programs when Pitt wanted to get an invite. The reason Pitt had donor issues and an apathetic student body is because the administration didn't give a shit, as proven by non investments in facilities and coaches. DO NOT blame the fans. Blame Pitt. This should not be forgotten. Other school's have admins that care, and the result is sustained success. Pitt has had an admin that is more likely the blame fans, especially through their surrogates here, rather than look in the mirror to see the real issue.

The reason Pitt didn't get invited to the ACC during their first expansion, is because Miami, VT and Boston College were better options, and it had little to do with their facilities. Miami and Boston are larger markets than is Pittsburgh. VT was at an all time high as a football power. Heinz Field and the Pete existed before these three schools were invited, giving Pitt newer and larger football and basketball facilities then these three. BC's Alumni Stadium is old and small. They got invited because Boston is a larger market than is Pittsburgh. if Pitt had remodeled or rebuilt Pitt Stadium, they would be in the ACC today. If Pitt had upgraded Pitt Stadium in the 70s or 80s, they would be in the Big Ten today, and in an even better financial situation.
 
Entitled? What BS! What planet and universe are you from? I'm a fan pure and simple and I support my teams with time and money. In return I expect a bona fide effort from the teams I support to put the best possible product on the field that they can. If they aren't interested in being the best they can be, then they should come out and say so and stop defrauding and stealing from their supporters. Neither Pitt nor the Pirates have done that in the recent past and anyone who suggests otherwise is a complete moron. It's only taken about 8 months to show how hapless and incompetent nerdy and Pedersen were. Nutting is the worst owner in all of BB and you will see this up close and personal(in between gulping down big bites of that kielbasa that is more important to you than the team's performance) as the Pirates swirl down the toilet within the next 3 seasons.

On the scheduling, playing Gonzaga in an airplane hangar half way around the world isn't equivalent to playing them or a similar caliber team on your home court. This year's home schedule blows and the attendance unequivocally proves it. You think anyone gives a $hit about playing a backwater team like Davidson(Davidson?) in NY. Nobody gives a rat's behind what their RPI is. Nobody's excited at the prospect of Pitt playing Davidson. You're tone deaf they way Pedersen was which is why attendance is in the toilet. It's the sort of mindless and inflexible thinking you display that has Pitt in this attendance fix-keep blaming the fans...what a joke. Barnes understands the problem and he will pull your boy, JD, kicking and screaming into playing a representative schedule. And you're full of crap, because within the past 10 years Pitt has played home OOC games with Okie St. , Washington and FSU and played teams like Indiana, Stanford , Duke and Memphis St. in NY but that was before JD lost his nerve and started playing the RPI card to the hilt. No guts, no glory and no attendance! Good thing we have an AD now who has a hell of a lot more marketing savvy than you and your stat geek friends who "just go to watch Pitt play and who could care less (yawn) whether the the game they're watching is even competitive." All 5 of you will have a swell time together watching the upcoming hoops dramas against Western Carolina and Maryland Eastern Shore-how embarrassing-Pitt will have played every "directional school" in the US the last 3 seasons at the Pete, what a treat!
So you named THREE teams we've played OOC at the Pete (one of those is a hoops trainwreck.). B.F.D. For someone who IGNORES actual performance....as in the Pirates.....you are the moron. And there's been no failure of effort on Dixon's part......or his kids, mostly. And I don't like kielbasa. You probably get Frequent Guest points from the Crow Diner. Because Nutting & Dixon make that culinary delight a staple....even if you don't admit it. And why do you even care about the cupcakes?? You admit you can't get to all the games.
 
So you named THREE teams we've played OOC at the Pete (one of those is a hoops trainwreck.). B.F.D. For someone who IGNORES actual performance....as in the Pirates.....you are the moron. And there's been no failure of effort on Dixon's part......or his kids, mostly. And I don't like kielbasa. You probably get Frequent Guest points from the Crow Diner. Because Nutting & Dixon make that culinary delight a staple....even if you don't admit it. And why do you even care about the cupcakes?? You admit you can't get to all the games.
We'll see ... Your lack of objectivity on issues close to your heart is a sign of old age.

On the scheduling, my citing the teams I did just proves that I understand the need to balance playing a representative home schedule that meets fans' expectations with not over scheduling. Your tendency to take $hit fits on on issues you're overly sensitive to clouds your judgments. I still like you though! Merry xmas! PS- if you don't like kielbasa you must love bobbleheads because no rational fan desirous of winning a world championship would back Nutting- the Pirates infield is the worst in their division- a putrid collection of garbage!
 
We'll see ... Your lack of objectivity on issues close to your heart is a sign of old age.

On the scheduling, my citing the teams I did just proves that I understand the need to balance playing a representative home schedule that meets fans' expectations with not over scheduling. Your tendency to take $hit fits on on issues you're overly sensitive to clouds your judgments. I still like you though! Merry xmas! PS- if you don't like kielbasa you must love bobbleheads because no rational fan desirous of winning a world championship would back Nutting- the Pirates infield is the worst in their division- a putrid collection of garbage!
Another cheap shot?? You get more riled up...and unpleasant, than me. No surprise, as you got refuted....again....by the Bucs success last season. Of course, you absolutely KNOW what the lineup will be, and the results. As for the scheduling stuff, we're middle of the road, because JD lobbies to get into these goofy tournaments. Like others. Our schedule at the start of play included 2 Top 15 games, NEITHER on hostile floors.
Everybody wants a better schedule, Del....many so they can b*tch when we lose some.
Have a great Christmas....despite the coal in your stocking.
 
Another cheap shot?? You get more riled up...and unpleasant, than me. No surprise, as you got refuted....again....by the Bucs success last season. Of course, you absolutely KNOW what the lineup will be, and the results. As for the scheduling stuff, we're middle of the road, because JD lobbies to get into these goofy tournaments. Like others. Our schedule at the start of play included 2 Top 15 games, NEITHER on hostile floors.
Everybody wants a better schedule, Del....many so they can b*tch when we lose some.
Have a great Christmas....despite the coal in your stocking.
Not interested in a feud or perpetuating one. I am a big Pitt and Bucco fan but Lord have mercy on anyone who stands in the way of their success and that includes "you know who." Sorry, if the last post came across as a shot at you but I would submit we both can be a little heavy handed on the keyboard. No malice intended. I've always gotten coal in my stocking- great ammo
 
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