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Stallings observation

Sorry, dt..
The saga standards have be raised.. I refuse to grade on a sliding scale

I'm not suggesting at all that Stallings should be graded on a sliding scale. I agree that the standards have been raised. I don't see where I have stated otherwise.

I certainly understand why folks don't think he can be successful. I'm even going to suggest that I'm all that optimistic. But I can see no harm whatsoever in being supportive and hopeful until there are real results from Stallings here at Pitt from which to judge him.
 
For those of you who love Stallings and not Dixon. Two names for you-wannestedt and kiffin.
Great recruiters, bad game day coaches.
And no the sport doesnt matter if you can coach.
 
For those of you who love Stallings and not Dixon. Two names for you-wannestedt and kiffin.
Great recruiters, bad game day coaches.
And no the sport doesnt matter if you can coach.
You know what I hope happens. Pitt vs TCU in the national title game and Pitt wins.
 
For those of you who love Stallings and not Dixon. Two names for you-wannestedt and kiffin.
Great recruiters, bad game day coaches.
And no the sport doesnt matter if you can coach.

Stallings isn't a great recruiter. History has shown he isn't even as good as the last guy here.
 
A loss is a loss just as a win is a win , but losing in a poorly played game to an opponent you should have beat leaves you sick in the stomach . Losing a well played game while still a loss you can be proud of your effort .Only one team can win in the end and getting beat is far preferable to skinking up the joint with your poor play .
Winning while playing poorly does trumps losing a well played game.
Ps even when Pitt was leading Wisconsin it was a horrible game to watch

Pitt played a good offensive game against Butler in 2011. 70 points in 59 possessions. Gil Brown makes a play in the final seconds to give Pitt the chance to win the game at the line. Surely you were proud of that effort?

Pitt also played a good offensive game against UConn in the Big East tournament that year. Even more scoring, with 74 points in 59 possessions, their second best offensive showing against a major opponent that year. Surely you were proud of that effort too?

I definitely remember all the posts here congratulating each other on two games well played! Bravo, Panthers! /s
 
Pitt played a good offensive game against Butler in 2011. 70 points in 59 possessions. Gil Brown makes a play in the final seconds to give Pitt the chance to win the game at the line. Surely you were proud of that effort?

Pitt also played a good offensive game against UConn in the Big East tournament that year. Even more scoring, with 74 points in 59 possessions, their second best offensive showing against a major opponent that year. Surely you were proud of that effort too?

I definitely remember all the posts here congratulating each other on two games well played! Bravo, Panthers! /s

What a bunch of garbage he is spewing. No one has ever been on here after a loss in a well played gane and given Pitt credit.

The butler game was probably the biggest meltdown this board has seen, despite Pitt playing well, a fluke performance from 3 for the other team, and a fluke foul. Many called for Dixon to be fired after that game.
 
Hell they melted down after the nova game, where Pitt played really well and got sunk by a last second shot and a freak performance from the line by the other team.

The people saying over and over again that they only wanted Dixon to move on recently are liars. I ca remember back 7-9 years ago people constantly complaining about him, and his recruiting, his tourney performance and the minute he had one down year people wanted him fired. People should At least be honest about it and don't act like this criticism of Dixon is recent.

This fanbase is garbage. Absolute trash. And in two years most will be praying for barely making the tournament.
It was a great game , but allowing an opponent to drive the length of the court for an easy layup as time expired could've been the reason for the meltdown . Just like Evans allowing that 3 pointer to be shot . Was the 92 Duke / Kentucky game not a great game with Christian Laettners last second shot. Plays like these make memorable moments some good some bad . I'm sure Kentucky fans still cringe about that play .That's what makes watching sports great . Watching the Pitt /Wisconsin game makes you puke .
There's a lot of reasons for Pitts fan base issues and the only way they sellout the Pete except for marquee games is by winning big . ( top 10-15 )
 
It was a great game , but allowing an opponent to drive the length of the court for an easy layup as time expired could've been the reason for the meltdown . Just like Evans allowing that 3 pointer to be shot . Was the 92 Duke / Kentucky game not a great game with Christian Laettners last second shot. Plays like these make memorable moments some good some bad . I'm sure Kentucky fans still cringe about that play .That's what makes watching sports great . Watching the Pitt /Wisconsin game makes you puke .
There's a lot of reasons for Pitts fan base issues and the only way they sellout the Pete except for marquee games is by winning big . ( top 10-15 )

This post is a microcosm of why Dixon was run off. The fanbase always decided to focus on the negatives, and ignore the vastly more number of positives.

Even the Wisconsin game, yeah, the offense sucked, but they played great defensively. I'm sure it wasn't dixon's game plan to have jrob go 1-25 or whatever it was.
 
Pitt played a good offensive game against Butler in 2011. 70 points in 59 possessions. Gil Brown makes a play in the final seconds to give Pitt the chance to win the game at the line. Surely you were proud of that effort?

Pitt also played a good offensive game against UConn in the Big East tournament that year. Even more scoring, with 74 points in 59 possessions, their second best offensive showing against a major opponent that year. Surely you were proud of that effort too?

I definitely remember all the posts here congratulating each other on two games well played! Bravo, Panthers! /s
What a bunch of garbage he is spewing. No one has ever been on here after a loss in a well played gane and given Pitt credit.

The butler game was probably the biggest meltdown this board has seen, despite Pitt playing well, a fluke performance from 3 for the other team, and a fluke foul. Many called for Dixon to be fired after that game.
No ones happy with a loss regardless of how the game was played . Fans react badly after loses , everyone's smarter than the coach ,how could that player make that boneheaded play or how could the ref call that . That's just the way passionate fans are and guess what life goes on . I'm not sure everyone's aware of this it's only a game . A game like that putrid effort against Wisconsin however causes people to walk away from their season tickets . Those other loses while they were tough games to lose didn't cause that same visceral feeling off having enough of Pitt BB.
 
What a bunch of garbage he is spewing. No one has ever been on here after a loss in a well played gane and given Pitt credit.

The butler game was probably the biggest meltdown this board has seen, despite Pitt playing well, a fluke performance from 3 for the other team, and a fluke foul. Many called for Dixon to be fired after that game.
Not being able to recognize another teams good play says more about you than me .
 
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Not being able to recognize another teams good play says more about you than me .

What? Pitt fans never admit another team just sometimes beat Pitt? Sometimes the other team plays well, and Pitt loses? Even when that happens, we get 5000 threads as to why the players and coaches suck.
 
Anecdotes aren't evidence.

Well the good news is your not in a position to be grading anyone, including me. That you would argue that the Pitt v. Wisconsin game was anything other than poorly played and ugly, only reflects on your poor credibility. My opinion, which was and is widely shared among Pitt fans, as well as the general media that reported upon the game says all that needs be said. Hail to Pitt!
 
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I left out nothing. You said "being "efficient" is a useless stat as well if you do not win the game." I pointed out the fact, and it is a fact that "if you are the more efficient team in the game you will win every single time. Kind of by definition."

YOU were referring to winning the game. Not all games, not conference games, THE GAME. When you are referring to any specific game the team that is more efficient wins, every single time. That's why basketball coaches and people who understand basketball look at efficiency numbers and not raw points per game as you seem to think is important. You can now deflect or talk around it all you want, but it is pretty clear that you don't have any sort of real understanding as to what wins basketball games.

And for the record, in the spirit of trying to help you understand, the reason that Pitt's record wasn't better even though it's offense was relatively efficient was because the defense was not. You do understand that there are two sides to the game, right? You do understand that you can have a pretty good offense and not win a lot of games because you have a bad defense, right? Or conversely you could be a pretty poor offense but if you play defense well enough you can still win too. You understand that when someone tells you that a team has a good or great or poor or whatever offense that they are only giving you half of the picture right? And without the other half you don't have the whole story, right?

My point about efficiency was directed to the poster that said that Pitt was 28th most efficient overall...which as I said, makes little difference if you do not win. Despite being the 28th most efficient team, Pitt finished 9-9 in the ACC, and finished poorly in the NCAA's in a very ugly game. Thanks for your offer of help, but I'll pass. You might want to read the original post again. Hail to Pitt!
 
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My point about efficiency was directed to the poster that said that Pitt was 28th most efficient overall...which as I said, makes little difference if you do not win. Despite being the 28th most efficient team, Pitt finished 9-9 in the ACC, and finished poorly in the NCAA's in a very ugly game. Thanks for your offer of help, but I'll pass. You might want to read the original post again. Hail to Pitt!

They were the 28th most efficient offensive team. Their defense was 54th. As a team, taken offense and defense together, they were 36th. Is this that hard for you to understand?

36th puts them right in line with their Sagarin Rating, and also their number on the overall seed chart (they were seeded 37th, Wisconsin was seeded 25th).
 
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They were the 28th most efficient offensive team. Their defense was 54th. As a team, taken offense and defense together, they were 36th. Is this that hard for you to understand?

36th puts them right in line with their Sagarin Rating, and also their number on the overall seed chart (they were seeded 37th, Wisconsin was seeded 25th).

He is either intentionally missing the point or just flat out missing it.

Of course the most efficient team over the course of a year doesn't always win an individual game. However, the most efficient team in an individual game ALWAYS wins.
 
He is either intentionally missing the point or just flat out missing it.

Of course the most efficient team over the course of a year doesn't always win an individual game. However, the most efficient team in an individual game ALWAYS wins.


Not missing it at all. GrowthHormone said: "Pitt was 28th in schedule adjusted points per possession last year." To which I said something to the effect of being efficient does not mean much if you are not winning the game. If you get context in conversation, being ranked 28th was referring to the entire season ranking...not to any one game. So the fact that Pitt was 28th ranked last year meant ZERO in the context of finishing 9-9 in ACC play and ZERO in losing to Wisconsin in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Is that point really so tough to grasp? Frankly, I was stating the obvious and something that was far from controversial. Hail to Pitt!
 
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Not missing it at all. GrowthHormone said: "Pitt was 28th in schedule adjusted points per possession last year." To which I said something to the effect of being efficient does not mean much if you are not winning the game. If you get context in conversation, being ranked 28th was referring to the entire season ranking...not to any one game. So the fact that Pitt was 28th ranked last year meant ZERO in the context of finishing 9-9 in ACC play and ZERO in losing to Wisconsin in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Is that point really so tough to grasp? Frankly, I was stating the obvious and something that was far from controversial. Hail to Pitt!
I have no idea what you are saying?
 
Not missing it at all. GrowthHormone said: "Pitt was 28th in schedule adjusted points per possession last year." To which I said something to the effect of being efficient does not mean much if you are not winning the game. If you get context in conversation, being ranked 28th was referring to the entire season ranking...not to any one game. So the fact that Pitt was 28th ranked last year meant ZERO in the context of finishing 9-9 in ACC play and ZERO in losing to Wisconsin in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Is that point really so tough to grasp? Frankly, I was stating the obvious and something that was far from controversial. Hail to Pitt!

28th in offense. There are two sides to the coin. 54th in defense. 36th overall. That puts them right at where the NCAA seeded them, at #37 overall seed. They played the #25 overall seed. They lost by 4 points, had a shot to win it under 5 seconds left. Had Young not ran into Robinson and Robinson made the shot and they win, they would've been the more efficient team that night.
 
28th in offense. There are two sides to the coin. 54th in defense. 36th overall. That puts them right at where the NCAA seeded them, at #37 overall seed. They played the #25 overall seed. They lost by 4 points, had a shot to win it under 5 seconds left. Had Young not ran into Robinson and Robinson made the shot and they win, they would've been the more efficient team that night.


Sure, if you want to change the original subject we can talk about defense and offense. The original poster and I were not talking about defense, but rather offense. Yeah, Pitt had a pretty dreadful defense last year. Why do you think that is/was the case? Are there any kids on the roster this season capable of playing defense? Guess we will soon find out. As for Wisconsin, you are free to spin it any way you want...but painting a turd blue and gold still at the end of the day leaves a turd. Hail to Pitt!
 
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Sure, if you want to change the original subject we can talk about defense and offense. The original poster and I were not talking about defense, but rather offense. Yeah, Pitt had a pretty dreadful defense last year. Why do you think that is/was the case? Are there any kids on the roster this season capable of playing defense? Guess we will soon find out. As for Wisconsin, you are free to spin it any way you want...but painting a turd blue and gold still at the end of the day leaves a turd. Hail to Pitt!

You are trying to take an offensive stat and applying it to a game overall. You keep saying they were 28th most efficient, but they lost a game. That's just silly to ignore defense in the equation. There is more to the game than just the offensive side of the ball.
 
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Not missing it at all. GrowthHormone said: "Pitt was 28th in schedule adjusted points per possession last year." To which I said something to the effect of being efficient does not mean much if you are not winning the game. If you get context in conversation, being ranked 28th was referring to the entire season ranking...not to any one game. So the fact that Pitt was 28th ranked last year meant ZERO in the context of finishing 9-9 in ACC play and ZERO in losing to Wisconsin in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Is that point really so tough to grasp? Frankly, I was stating the obvious and something that was far from controversial. Hail to Pitt!

Your original argument was that their points per game wasn't very high, which is also a season-long stat that has no bearing on the outcome of an individual game.
 
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You are trying to take an offensive stat and applying it to a game overall. You keep saying they were 28th most efficient, but they lost a game. That's just silly to ignore defense in the equation. There is more to the game than just the offensive side of the ball.


Read buddy, perhaps real slow. I never said a thing about efficiency until another poster said that Pitt was 28th most offensive efficient team last season [which may not even be correct, as they appeared #31 in the list I saw]. And I said who cares if you don't win the game. Not complex or hard at all. Everyone knows Pitt sucked at defense last season. The point is, was and remains...that Pitt was uber efficient to the point of being #28 last season [mostly stats run up against a bunch of soup cans in a super soft OCS]...mattered not when they weren't and lost an ugly basketball game to Wisconsin. Did the most efficient offensive team win the national championship last year? Answer is no--and so the stat is only worth bragging about if you win the game. Hail to Pitt!
 
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Not at all. Read my comments to Joe. The most efficient team may in fact win when it is one-on-one--I never said that was untrue. However, Pitt's nice efficiency ranking did them nothing...because they racked up those stats against cream puffs and when they actually played conference games that mattered--.500. Pitt was a middling/mediocre team last season...and their average points scored/yielded was a much better reflection of the team overall than looking at a ranking that placed them 28th. Hail to Pitt!

You really, truly have no idea what you're talking about. I think the word "efficiency" is confusing you. Just say "points per possession." I think you think efficiency is some mystical unknowable concept like ESPN's QBR or passer rating (NB: neither of those are unknowable, either, but I can understand how the innumerate may feel they are). It's not. It's just like points per game, except you are dividing by possessions instead of by games played. Just like you wouldn't look at total points scored in a season to evaluate offense when teams play a different number of games, you shouldn't look at points scored in a game when teams play a different number of possessions within a game.
 
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You conveniently left out the significant fact that the original poster indicated that Pitt was the 28th most efficient team last season. So what...they were 9-9 in conference games. Being efficient means totally nothing if you are not winning conference games. So Pitt racked up some nice efficiency numbers playing dreg schools, yet finished .500 in conference, and lost one of the worst played games I have ever seen in the NCAA tournament. I guess Pitt's efficiency is a thing of beauty I missed last season--as I watched a lot of ugly basketball. I stand by my comment, as it was in fact very accurate in the context of when and where it was made. Hail to Pitt!

No, it wasn't. Again, you are fundamentally confused about measures of offensive efficacy. You cited low points per game to say that Pitt's offense was bad last year. I'm trying desperately to explain that you need to look at points per possession, not points per game. On a points per possession basis, Pitt's offense wasn't bad at all. No, you shouldn't stand by your comment. No, it is not accurate at all. Not in this context or any other. Just take 30 minutes to look into it. Please.
 
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Read buddy, perhaps real slow. I never said a thing about efficiency until another poster said that Pitt was 28th most offensive efficient team last season [which may not even be correct, as they appeared #31 in the list I saw]. And I said who cares if you don't win the game. Not complex or hard at all. Everyone knows Pitt sucked at defense last season. The point is, was and remains...that Pitt was uber efficient to the point of being #28 last season [mostly stats run up against a bunch of soup cans in a super soft OCS]...mattered not when they weren't and lost an ugly basketball game to Wisconsin. Did the most efficient offensive team win the national championship last year? Answer is no--and so the stat is only worth bragging about if you win the game. Hail to Pitt!

Why do you continue to ignore the defensive aspect of it?

Villanova was the most efficient team overall last year (#3 offense, #5 defense). They beat UNC, the #2 overall team last year in efficiency (#1 offense, #21 defense).

Of course it doesn't mean you win every game if you are #1, but if you are highly rated in the efficiency stats, that means you have won a ton of games.

It's much more predictive than average points per game.
 
Not missing it at all. GrowthHormone said: "Pitt was 28th in schedule adjusted points per possession last year." To which I said something to the effect of being efficient does not mean much if you are not winning the game. If you get context in conversation, being ranked 28th was referring to the entire season ranking...not to any one game. So the fact that Pitt was 28th ranked last year meant ZERO in the context of finishing 9-9 in ACC play and ZERO in losing to Wisconsin in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Is that point really so tough to grasp? Frankly, I was stating the obvious and something that was far from controversial. Hail to Pitt!

We have entered bananaland. You said "Unfortunately Pitt ranked 104 in scoring per game and 74th in rebounding--so pretty far from stellar."

YOU USED THE SEASON LONG STATS. YOU. YOU DID THAT. You are trying to say that efficiency doesn't matter but offensive efficiency is just a better way of measuring offensive success than points per game. You are totally mixed up. YOU BROUGHT UP POINTS PER GAME. If the fact that Pitt being 28th in points scored per possession last year means "ZERO" (your word), then so does points per game. I remind you, you brought up points per game.

I'll try another way, with shorter and simpler sentences:

You cited points per game to say Pitt's offense was bad.
I told you to look at points per possession, not points per game.
You then say season long points per possession means nothing.
Since points per possession is just a better way of measuring offensive success than points per game, season long points per game must be meaningless, too.
I now remind you, you brought up the season long stats.

You refuted your own point. You have no idea that you did it. I'm astounded.

 
You really, truly have no idea what you're talking about. I think the word "efficiency" is confusing you. Just say "points per possession." I think you think efficiency is some mystical unknowable concept like ESPN's QBR or passer rating (NB: neither of those are unknowable, either, but I can understand how the innumerate may feel they are). It's not. It's just like points per game, except you are dividing by possessions instead of by games played. Just like you wouldn't look at total points scored in a season to evaluate offense when teams play a different number of games, you shouldn't look at points scored in a game when teams play a different number of possessions within a game.


Tired of the discussion, but you were the one that threw out 28th ranked efficiency from last season [as if to suggest the season was pretty good]. Which of course was and is a meaningless stat in the context of who won the Pitt v. Wisconsin game [and for that matter, the 9-9 ACC season record]. I will continue to look at plain old wins and losses, unless you are prepared to tell me that some count for more and others for less during the regular season. So I will say this as simply as I can, I really do not care about stats, efficiency ratings, BPI or any other system you or any other person wants to trot out there...I just care about wins. Satisfied? Hail to Pitt!
 
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Tired of the discussion, but you were the one that threw out 28th ranked efficiency from last season [as if to suggest the season was pretty good]. Which of course was and is a meaningless stat in the context of who won the Pitt v. Wisconsin game [and for that matter, the 9-9 ACC season record]. I will continue to look at plain old wins and losses, unless you are prepared to tell me that some count for more and others for less during the regular season. So I will say this as simply as I can, I really do not care about stats, efficiency ratings, BPI or any other system you or any other person wants to trot out there...I just care about wins. Satisfied? Hail to Pitt!

I gave you Pitt's offensive points per possession because you mentioned Pitt's points per game. If Pitt's points per game is relevant then so must be Pitt's points per possession.

"I will continue to look at plain old wins and losses."
"I really do not care about stats, efficiency ratings..."

You brought up points per game. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Honestly, I get it when people ignore stats because they don't understand them. It's not easy. I truly get that. What I don't get is how you can so completely misunderstand this conversation. Or how you can completely flip your position on its head and not even realize you did it.
 
I gave you Pitt's offensive points per possession because you mentioned Pitt's points per game. If Pitt's points per game is relevant then so must be Pitt's points per possession.

"I will continue to look at plain old wins and losses."
"I really do not care about stats, efficiency ratings..."

You brought up points per game. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Honestly, I get it when people ignore stats because they don't understand them. It's not easy. I truly get that. What I don't get is how you can so completely misunderstand this conversation. Or how you can completely flip your position on its head and not even realize you did it.


Anyone may look at any stats they choose and draw conclusions from them. Yes, certain stats may be better than others about predicting or illustrating certain things. Perhaps my examples of points scored/points given up/rebounds are not the most important stats in determining whether a team had a good season or who may win any particular game. If your position is or was that Pitt had anything more than a mediocre season in 2015-16...I really don't care what system or stats you examine...they all pretty much point to that conclusion. But back to the basic comment on points per possession or efficiency...does not matter how good you are ranked in that category if you do not win the game--which was the premise of my response. Enjoy the evening...I need to get home and pack for Miami...as I am not totally switched over from football yet. Hail to Pitt!
 
Well the good news is your not in a position to be grading anyone, including me. That you would argue that the Pitt v. Wisconsin game was anything other than poorly played and ugly, only reflects on your poor credibility. My opinion, which was and is widely shared among Pitt fans, as well as the general media that reported upon the game says all that needs be said. Hail to Pitt!
So, you are using the logical fallacy defense?

I think pitt vs wisky was a better game than what stalling's squad did last year, being drilled by 20 in the play in game.


You've proven yourself devoid of logic or consistency.
 
So, you are using the logical fallacy defense?

I think pitt vs wisky was a better game than what stalling's squad did last year, being drilled by 20 in the play in game.


You've proven yourself devoid of logic or consistency.


I did not watch the NCAA Vanderbilt game last year, so it would be dishonest for me to comment on how good or bad they played. I'd wager a couple bucks that you and most people on the board talking about that game did no more than read a box score at some point once Stallings was hired by Pitt [if even that]. I was at the Pitt v. Wisconsin game, actually sat directly behind Coach Narduzzi. Pitt's game was simply awful from where I sat...and be sure, I am in good company with those that shared that opinion. Considering so many here think of themselves as such great Pitt basketball fans, there were next to none of you in the house to support Dixon or the team. But of course, you are entitled to whatever opinion you choose...afterall, in your self-appointed role of board contrarian, you must. Hail to Pitt!
 
I did not watch the NCAA Vanderbilt game last year, so it would be dishonest for me to comment on how good or bad they played. I'd wager a couple bucks that you and most people on the board talking about that game did no more than read a box score at some point once Stallings was hired by Pitt [if even that]. I was at the Pitt v. Wisconsin game, actually sat directly behind Coach Narduzzi. Pitt's game was simply awful from where I sat...and be sure, I am in good company with those that shared that opinion. Considering so many here think of themselves as such great Pitt basketball fans, there were next to none of you in the house to support Dixon or the team. But of course, you are entitled to whatever opinion you choose...afterall, in your self-appointed role of board contrarian, you must. Hail to Pitt!

I watched, and after watching it made me think WSU had another big run in them...they made vandy look really bad.
 
I did not watch the NCAA Vanderbilt game last year, so it would be dishonest for me to comment on how good or bad they played. I'd wager a couple bucks that you and most people on the board talking about that game did no more than read a box score at some point once Stallings was hired by Pitt [if even that]. I was at the Pitt v. Wisconsin game, actually sat directly behind Coach Narduzzi. Pitt's game was simply awful from where I sat...and be sure, I am in good company with those that shared that opinion. Considering so many here think of themselves as such great Pitt basketball fans, there were next to none of you in the house to support Dixon or the team. But of course, you are entitled to whatever opinion you choose...afterall, in your self-appointed role of board contrarian, you must. Hail to Pitt!
I don't judge a career of coaching, let alone a whole season, by a single game.
Because I had logical consistency.
 
Come on. I posted two completely contradictory statements from @PITTLAW several pages ago, which he never acknowledged. You know better than to think he's going to admit he has no idea what he is talking about here.

He's got the defense mechanisms on full blast now. Talking about how good his seats are, questioning if anyone else is a true fan, etc. He is feeling very embarrassed right now. You're right that he won't admit it, but he knows that he looks like an idiot.
 
He's got the defense mechanisms on full blast now. Talking about how good his seats are, questioning if anyone else is a true fan, etc. He is feeling very embarrassed right now. You're right that he won't admit it, but he knows that he looks like an idiot.
The only idiots on here are the ones throwing a new coach under the bus and hoping they can run him over with it.
 
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