Stupidity and hating

[levance2]

Re: Thumbs up Owtie!!

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

An honest assessment? I think the above of what we are and what we have (had) is a pretty damn honest assessment. AND.....at one point, we were a #1 seed in 2 out of 3 years. How many other programs actually reach that level of success? And we have totally whiffed on building on this "blueblood" like success.

We just seem to want to make and accept excuses without admitting the obvious. That perhaps, Jamie has grown stale here

The problem of identifying a "trend" is also identifying all the other data you are comparing to. You mentioned Wisconsin as an example of a team that has excelled, but one could also point to WVU falling on its face after a Final Four run, or Villanova having a rough stretch also. Both of which are programs who have since rebounded nicely.

What Pitt is going through currently is not all that out of character for comparable teams around the country. It is certainly not a positive thing, but it is also not the end of the world like some are making it out to be.

A year ago Pitt was playing in the ACC semi-finals and our fans thought they had a pretty decent chance against UVa and we only lost by 3. Nobody was using that as a datapoint in a multi-year trend analysis. Even against #1 overall Florida, we thought Pitt had a chance for an upset.

Just like people are disappointed by Pitt "underperforming" in the NCAA tournament, Pitt fans are now disappointed in not getting a #1 seed every couple years. What Pitt had done 2008-2011 was probably a bit of an overachievement. As you said, how often does anyone in any program do that? The past few years have been a bit of an underachievement, but that doesn't mean it will be that way forever. Dixon will be given the time to prove whether this is a 4-year blip or the beginning of the end. I honestly don't know how anyone could reach that conclusion based on evidence to date.

Can anyone really argue that Ben Howland is not a good coach after 3 Final Fours? UCLA still decided to part ways. Dixon has accomplished enough over his career that someone will be paying him a lot of money to coach basketball. Time will tell whether that someone is Pitt, or like Howland, he'll find another home.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Re: Thumbs up Owtie!!

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

It is funny, I AM NEGATIVE, yet I seem to be able to find many more reasons why this program should be more successful than those POSITIVE people who seem to latch on to every excuse, even down to the most mundane of a) "you can't get everyone you are after" and b) all schools lose players. Yeah....okay. Here is what I posted below. Where am I offbase? How am I negative in thinking like this? Why can I think to sell this, but seemingly our staff can't?

There are always reasons why "we can't", "we don't", "we won't". But I rarely see the flip side. This program in the last decade or so has had EVERY advantage the football program hasn't had with the exception of a local recruiting base. Every one.

We have won alot.
We have been national relevant.
We have had coaching stability.
We have an outstanding on campus arena.
We have sellouts.
We have or were a regular fixture in the top 20, hell top 10.
We have always resided in THE BB power conference.
Hell, we are an urban campus and most BB players are from the city so there would and is a familiar environment
We don't have an NBA team to draw away attention. We are the top Basketball dog in town.

The only two things we don't have is a local recruiting base and we don't have a loooong ("blue blood") history.

The excuses for the lack of recruiting and decline of the program rely strictly on the coaching staff and not even on the side of bad luck.

This is the irony that overrides this board. The group of "positive" posters (and you know who I'm talking about) will be overly NEGATIVE about the state of Pitt's program to defend us losing games, losing recruits, etc.

- They say such things as we're no better than Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, etc.

- We can't compete with "blue bloods" like Villanova and Georgetown because they were good a long time ago. Please.

- Our basketball program shouldn't expect to compete with the higher echelon teams.

They have a very low opinion of our program. This group of people are thrilled with just having a team. They care somewhat whether we win or lose but mainly watch the games for entertainment purposes. We'll lose a game. They'll make some positive post about something good we did or rebut a "negative" poster and the never-ending back and forth goes on. They mostly care about our players making good grades and being good citizens. If we win a game along the way, that's just gravy.

In my opinion, these aren't "diehard" fans. You can't be so positive and still be considered a diehard.

These are my expectations for our program:

NCAA Tournament 8 out 10 years (which we are doing)
Sweet 16 3 times a decade (which we used to do)
Final Four once every 15 years
Win a conference tournament championship twice a decade (we used to do that)

I have no expectation for winning a National Championship. I dont care if we ever do that. Now, if we elevate our program and start going to consistent Final Fours, maybe then I'll raise my expectations but a NC at Pitt is never going to happen and I could care less. The Elite 8 is my National Championship and the weekend I get at wherever the Final Four is taking place that year is just some fantasy-dream come true that I would love every minute of, win or lose.

BTW, most "positive" posters minimize Final Fours by saying "Well, George Mason and WVU went to Final Fours and they didn't build off of it. Nobody cares or remembers who made a Final Four."

There are essentially 2 groups of posters on this board:

1. Those who want this program to be really good (ironically labeled the negative posters)
2. Those are satisfied with mediocrity (the positive posters, go figure)


I
This post was edited on 4/17 12:31 PM by Sean Miller Fan

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Re: Thumbs up Owtie!!

Originally posted by Sean Miller Fan:

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

It is funny, I AM NEGATIVE, yet I seem to be able to find many more reasons why this program should be more successful than those POSITIVE people who seem to latch on to every excuse, even down to the most mundane of a) "you can't get everyone you are after" and b) all schools lose players. Yeah....okay. Here is what I posted below. Where am I offbase? How am I negative in thinking like this? Why can I think to sell this, but seemingly our staff can't?

There are always reasons why "we can't", "we don't", "we won't". But I rarely see the flip side. This program in the last decade or so has had EVERY advantage the football program hasn't had with the exception of a local recruiting base. Every one.

We have won alot.
We have been national relevant.
We have had coaching stability.
We have an outstanding on campus arena.
We have sellouts.
We have or were a regular fixture in the top 20, hell top 10.
We have always resided in THE BB power conference.
Hell, we are an urban campus and most BB players are from the city so there would and is a familiar environment
We don't have an NBA team to draw away attention. We are the top Basketball dog in town.

The only two things we don't have is a local recruiting base and we don't have a loooong ("blue blood") history.

The excuses for the lack of recruiting and decline of the program rely strictly on the coaching staff and not even on the side of bad luck.

This is the irony that overrides this board. The group of "positive" posters (and you know who I'm talking about) will be overly NEGATIVE about the state of Pitt's program to defend us losing games, losing recruits, etc.

- They say such things as we're no better than Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, etc.

- We can't compete with "blue bloods" like Villanova and Georgetown because they were good a long time ago. Please.

- Our basketball program shouldn't expect to compete with the higher echelon teams.

They have a very low opinion of our program. This group of people are thrilled with just having a team. They care somewhat whether we win or lose but mainly watch the games for entertainment purposes. We'll lose a game. They'll make some positive post about something good we did or rebut a "negative" poster and the never-ending back and forth goes on. They mostly care about our players making good grades and being good citizens. If we win a game along the way, that's just gravy.

In my opinion, these aren't "diehard" fans. You can't be so positive and still be considered a diehard.

These are my expectations for our program:

NCAA Tournament 8 out 10 years (which we are doing)
Sweet 16 3 times a decade (which we used to do)
Final Four once every 15 years
Win a conference tournament championship twice a decade (we used to do that)

I have no expectation for winning a National Championship. I dont care if we ever do that. Now, if we elevate our program and start going to consistent Final Fours, maybe then I'll raise my expectations but a NC at Pitt is never going to happen and I could care less. The Elite 8 is my National Championship and the weekend I get at wherever the Final Four is taking place that year is just some fantasy-dream come true that I would love every minute of, win or lose.

BTW, most "positive" posters minimize Final Fours by saying "Well, George Mason and WVU went to Final Fours and they didn't build off of it. Nobody cares or remembers who made a Final Four."

There are essentially 2 groups of posters on this board:

1. Those who want this program to be really good (ironically labeled the negative posters)
2. Those are satisfied with mediocrity (the positive posters, go figure)


I

This post was edited on 4/17 12:31 PM by Sean Miller Fan

So true. And hey, Mustapha Heron just decommitted, but it is okay, because you can't land every recruit you try and land.

 

[ThatPittGuy]

Re: Thumbs up Owtie!!

You've got it all wrong, SMF. The division on this board isn't between those who want a good program and those who want mediocrity.

The division is between those who can call a spade a spade, and those with deep insecurities for whom spade-calling is very troubling.

Sometimes the defenses they offer are more desperate than the "whining" they're criticizing.

Good luck getting any of them to realize it, though.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

One other thing.......

Expectations. SMF posted them. He said that he didn't expect nor care if we won a NC. He then admitted if we were getting consistently to Final 4's, then yes, he would expect to win one. He changed expectations in one post.

And you know what? That is fine. Goalposts always move. People always want better. That's okay. On this board it is frowned up. That the status quo is the only thing that is to be expected of and accepted. Anyone who dares to dream bigger must be shuttered and shunned.

That is how life works. Now you can be happy with where you are, but deep down, you always would like better, more. Of course if you are Bill Gates or Warren Buffet, maybe not. But as a Pitt fan, we would love to have what Alabama has in football or UK in basketball. But I guarantee both of those fanbases are disappointed with the outcomes of their seasons this year.

Again, on this board, we tend to want to shoot those who actually desire more than what Pitt basketball has given them. That is really curious. behavior.

 

[ThatPittGuy]

Again, some posters on this board would like you to believe that they deeply enjoy the successes of the Pitt basketball program. But the failures?... Nah, doesn't bother 'em. They want to take part in the joy, but then detach themselves form the downside and... even worse... ridicule others for being downbeat.

It's totally disingenuous. They wouldn't spend so much time on a recruiting website if the decisions of high school juniors didn't matter to them.

 

[Ski11585]

Re: Thumbs up Owtie!!

Originally posted by ThatPittGuy:
You've got it all wrong, SMF. The division on this board isn't between those who want a good program and those who want mediocrity.

The division is between those who can call a spade a spade, and those with deep insecurities for whom spade-calling is very troubling.

Sometimes the defenses they offer are more desperate than the "whining" they're criticizing.

Good luck getting any of them to realize it, though.

Of the division is between adults and spoiled children. But really, all of the above work.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Originally posted by ThatPittGuy:
Again, some posters on this board would like you to believe that they deeply enjoy the successes of the Pitt basketball program. But the failures?... Nah, doesn't bother 'em. They want to take part in the joy, but then detach themselves form the downside and... even worse... ridicule others for being downbeat.

It's totally disingenuous. They wouldn't spend so much time on a recruiting website if the decisions of high school juniors didn't matter to them.

I don't get all emotional about the successes, either, in fairness.

I have more important things in life to celebrate than something I'm watching on TV or in Person.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

truf PittGuy.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Originally posted by SoufOaklin4Life:

Originally posted by ThatPittGuy:
Again, some posters on this board would like you to believe that they deeply enjoy the successes of the Pitt basketball program. But the failures?... Nah, doesn't bother 'em. They want to take part in the joy, but then detach themselves form the downside and... even worse... ridicule others for being downbeat.

It's totally disingenuous. They wouldn't spend so much time on a recruiting website if the decisions of high school juniors didn't matter to them.

I don't get all emotional about the successes, either, in fairness.

I have more important things in life to celebrate than something I'm watching on TV or in Person.

Then you are not a fan. But you have over 38,500 posts on a fan message board. I suggest you get some form of emotional involvement.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

One other thing.......

Expectations. SMF posted them. He said that he didn't expect nor care if we won a NC. He then admitted if we were getting consistently to Final 4's, then yes, he would expect to win one. He changed expectations in one post.

And you know what? That is fine. Goalposts always move. People always want better. That's okay. On this board it is frowned up. That the status quo is the only thing that is to be expected of and accepted. Anyone who dares to dream bigger must be shuttered and shunned.

That is how life works. Now you can be happy with where you are, but deep down, you always would like better, more. Of course if you are Bill Gates or Warren Buffet, maybe not. But as a Pitt fan, we would love to have what Alabama has in football or UK in basketball. But I guarantee both of those fanbases are disappointed with the outcomes of their seasons this year.

Again, on this board, we tend to want to shoot those who actually desire more than what Pitt basketball has given them. That is really curious. behavior.

I want more and better things which actually affects my life.

Sports aren't included in that list.

You can live vicariously through sports teams- and expect whatever you will. I'm only pointing out the truth of that.

Your expectations for a sports team are as meaningful as anyone else's...which is nil.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

Originally posted by SoufOaklin4Life:

Originally posted by ThatPittGuy:
Again, some posters on this board would like you to believe that they deeply enjoy the successes of the Pitt basketball program. But the failures?... Nah, doesn't bother 'em. They want to take part in the joy, but then detach themselves form the downside and... even worse... ridicule others for being downbeat.

It's totally disingenuous. They wouldn't spend so much time on a recruiting website if the decisions of high school juniors didn't matter to them.

I don't get all emotional about the successes, either, in fairness.

I have more important things in life to celebrate than something I'm watching on TV or in Person.

Then you are not a fan. But you have over 38,500 posts on a fan message board. I suggest you get some form of emotional involvement.

Okay, i'm not a fan.
This message board is entertainment.

I have plenty of emotional involvement- wife, kid, career, friends, and family. I'm under no illusion about my posts...it's at it's best mental sparring (shadow boxing) and at worst a complete waste of time. None of it is meaningful to me. You really can't say the same.

See that, perspective.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Originally posted by SoufOaklin4Life:

I want more and better things which actually affects my life.

Sports aren't included in that list.

38,500 of your posts indicate otherwise. Do you even have time for anything other than this message board?

You have won the award for the most comical post of 2015. Congratulations!

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Originally posted by Sean Miller Fan:

Originally posted by SoufOaklin4Life:

I want more and better things which actually affects my life.

Sports aren't included in that list.

38,500 of your posts indicate otherwise. Do you even have time for anything other than this message board?

You have won the award for the most comical post of 2015. Congratulations!

This isn't sports.
And this message board IS entertainment.

It takes about 20 seconds to post something- and most of that is during working hours, during lulls...so yeah...I have plenty of time for other things.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Originally posted by SoufOaklin4Life:

This isn't sports.
And this message board IS entertainment.

Now, you're sounding like Kiwi, where everything must be stated to him in the most literal of terms.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Originally posted by Sean Miller Fan:

Originally posted by SoufOaklin4Life:

This isn't sports.
And this message board IS entertainment.

Now, you're sounding like Kiwi, where everything must be stated to him in the most literal of terms.

I'm stating to you in the most literal terms....you're seemingly conflating issues.

You say you're a better/bigger fan than me...and then point to my posts to demonstrate my dedication to Pitt sports. Those things are conflicting, aren't they?


I'll help you..they ARE unrelated issues.