Talent Level/ Athleticism

[Pitt79]

Most agree that our recruiting has been poor for years. Talent is definitely sub par. But just from observation, isn't it clear that we are practically MAC-level talent as we play these ACC games.

Yes, we have won a few, but others are FLYING, literally IN THE AIR, FLYING to the rim, ALLEY-OOPs, bring the house down, and lead by our low flying, somewhat "efficient" point guard, who's even though is a 4 year starter, is probably maybe only the 5th best PG in the Dixon Era, we are usually playing below the rim, like a good CYO team might.

Where in the hell is our ACC Level athleticism? Even our size seems sub par, Some of these teams are throwing out multiple 7-footers and our "big" front line is 6-7? Our team is ACC, we have some history of success that should be a selling point, why can't Dixon compete in recruiting? And don't say everyone else is dirty, if they are why aren't there 6-8 ACC teams on probation?

 

[Jeffburgh]

The "athleticism" is not great, but the bigger issue by far is toughness, physical and mental.

 

[Pittx9]

The "athleticism" is not great, but the bigger issue by far is toughness, physical and mental.

Agree. This team should win a lot more games, the problem is they are incredibly weak. Possible even weak mentally too, but that is something that is hard to say factually just by observing.

 

[ThatPittGuy]

The "athleticism" is not great, but the bigger issue by far is toughness, physical and mental.

This is exactly right. And the toughness has been absent going on half a decade already. The issue goes far beyond Pitt's players in any given year. Something's rotten in the system.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

The announcers showed a graphic last night. Four of the top 10 NCCA basketball NBA hopefuls are freshman. Others are second year players etc.
When did we ever get players like that?
We're always saying wait until they grow up and mature and still nothing.
While other teams have freshman ready for the NBA/big money we don't seem to have seniors in that position.
Common sense tells me something is wrong with player selection!

 

[Delpanther]

Roster is full of holes: no C and no real PF which translates into no inside offensive game, no consistent rebounding or semblance of interior D; no guards who make anything happen offensively or defensively and outside Shooting as a team is poor.

No getting around the fact that this staff has failed miserably at evaluating talent and procuring talent. Add to that, player development has badly lagged- best examples are Robinson, Jones and Jeter. You can even make the argument that even Young and Artis haven't really developed their over all games- they may be better offensively but their defense, rebounding and just their instincts for the game are still poor. Will Young ever learn how to deal with a double or triple team? Artis at times looks clueless on defense and only gets rebounds by accident.

 

[pittizit]

JD=Wait until next year again and again and again.

 

[UPitt129]

The announcers showed a graphic last night. Four of the top 10 NCCA basketball NBA hopefuls are freshman. Others are second year players etc.
When did we ever get players like that?
We're always saying wait until they grow up and mature and still nothing.
While other teams have freshman ready for the NBA/big money we don't seem to have seniors in that position.
Common sense tells me something is wrong with player selection!

Steven Adams?

In any case though, there are a select few teams that get those types of guys, and even fewer that get them year in and year out.

 

[UPitt129]

Most agree that our recruiting has been poor for years. Talent is definitely sub par. But just from observation, isn't it clear that we are practically MAC-level talent as we play these ACC games.

Yes, we have won a few, but others are FLYING, literally IN THE AIR, FLYING to the rim, ALLEY-OOPs, bring the house down, and lead by our low flying, somewhat "efficient" point guard, who's even though is a 4 year starter, is probably maybe only the 5th best PG in the Dixon Era, we are usually playing below the rim, like a good CYO team might.

Where in the hell is our ACC Level athleticism? Even our size seems sub par, Some of these teams are throwing out multiple 7-footers and our "big" front line is 6-7? Our team is ACC, we have some history of success that should be a selling point, why can't Dixon compete in recruiting? And don't say everyone else is dirty, if they are why aren't there 6-8 ACC teams on probation?

Jesus...so much wrong here.

First off, this team does not have MAC level talent. In the MAC, Pitt would probably lose one, maybe two games at most. We easily beat a pretty good MAC school in Kent State.

Second, I'm guessing you missed Jeter's thunderous slam yesterday, Young's tomahawks through the year, and Artis' athletic ability to get to the hoop at points.

As far as Robinson, well, he is basically TJ McConnel with less of a supporting cast....who is exactly the guy many on here pined for for many years. He is what he is, and just because he doesn't fit YOUR idea of what a PG should be doesn't mean he is bad.

And height? I didn't realize that was the end all be all of things? Remember Dejuan Blair? Maia and ANO. Anya stinks from NC State. UNC doesn't have a 7 footer...Duke has Plumee, who took four years to develop. Those guys really don't grow on trees.

And no, not everyone else is dirty, but your desire to be dirty and be like Louisville, especially if you went to Pitt, is pretty odd, and rather myopic at the same time. Do you really put that much value on sports that you want an academic institution to compromise it's ethics?

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

JD=Wait until next year again and again and again.

You mean like you repeating yourself again and again and again?

 

[Pitt79]

The announcers showed a graphic last night. Four of the top 10 NCCA basketball NBA hopefuls are freshman. Others are second year players etc.
When did we ever get players like that?
We're always saying wait until they grow up and mature and still nothing.
While other teams have freshman ready for the NBA/big money we don't seem to have seniors in that position.
Common sense tells me something is wrong with player selection!

We did have Steven Adams, and ironically, his worst year was his college year at Pitt, he's been a better player at the pro level, or maybe that's just because of the system they play vs. Pitt's system? Who knows?

 

[Pitt79]

Steven Adams?

In any case though, there are a select few teams that get those types of guys, and even fewer that get them year in and year out.

The point of all those years that Pitt was a high seed at the NCAAs and at the top of the BE should have been making strides to become one of the "few select teams" and I guess they didn't have the recruiting savvy to pull that off.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

We did have Steven Adams, and ironically, his worst year was his college year at Pitt, he's been a better player at the pro level, or maybe that's just because of the system they play vs. Pitt's system? Who knows?

I don't think his role is all that much different than when he was at Pitt. Most of his improvements - I'd imagine - have to do with how everything in his life can be geared towards basketball at the pro level.

I certainly believe he'd have improved and been a much bigger contributor at Pitt as well had he stuck around but obviously that's something we'll never know for sure.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

The point of all those years that Pitt was a high seed at the NCAAs and at the top of the BE should have been making strides to become one of the "few select teams" and I guess they didn't have the recruiting savvy to pull that off.

That is puzzling. Some theorize that Dixon got away from what made him successful in recruiting but whatever the reason it is peculiar that they weren't able to capitalize on the success they had. I don't know they'd have ever quite reached the elite level or one of a few select teams but would have thought they could have moved up a few rungs.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

We have talent- ie. skill level. We have plenty of players with a high level of basketball skills.
We do lack athleticism- ie- strength and quick/high jumping ability. Young and Artis are REALLY skilled. but are below average athletes- ie, are below the rim players.

 

[Ski11585]

1: Pitt has athletic players. You are letting your hissy fit blind you from stuff you actually see on the court.

2: This pining for athleticism is tiresome. JJ Moore was more athletic than Patterson, but only idiots like UP#1 pine for the former over the latter. Fields wasn't overly athletic but he was still a great PG who (admittedly) benefitted from playing alongside two all-time great Pitt Panthers.

We did have Steven Adams, and ironically, his worst year was his college year at Pitt, he's been a better player at the pro level, or maybe that's just because of the system they play vs. Pitt's system? Who knows?

Watch an OKC game. Adams is used the same way in the pros that he was at Pitt.

 

[Pitt79]

1: Pitt has athletic players. You are letting your hissy fit blind you from stuff you actually see on the court.

2: This pining for athleticism is tiresome. JJ Moore was more athletic than Patterson, but only idiots like UP#1 pine for the former over the latter. Fields wasn't overly athletic but he was still a great PG who (admittedly) benefitted from playing alongside two all-time great Pitt Panthers.



Watch an OKC game. Adams is used the same way in the pros that he was at Pitt.

Maybe he just improved, he plays better it seems, that just being subjective. The thing is, his stats vs. NBA players are as good as they where against the BE that season. almost immediately.

 

[Ski11585]

Maybe he just improved, he plays better it seems, that just being subjective. The thing is, his stats vs. NBA players are as good as they where against the BE that season. almost immediately.

Considering how little experience he had playing against high level competition when he got to Pitt, I think his improved play is largely a function of familiarity and having the opportunity to play all the time.

 

[DT_PITT]

We did have Steven Adams, and ironically, his worst year was his college year at Pitt, he's been a better player at the pro level, or maybe that's just because of the system they play vs. Pitt's system? Who knows?

This is not accurate. OKC uses him exactly the same way Pitt did.

And of course Steve has improved as a pro, but that has been completely proportional to his experience.

The largest improvement Steve made was actually during his year at Pitt. Especially from between when I saw him in his prep school game and the summer league, to when he first started playing games at Pitt.

 

[Piranha]

Jesus...so much wrong here.

First off, this team does not have MAC level talent. In the MAC, Pitt would probably lose one, maybe two games at most. We easily beat a pretty good MAC school in Kent State.

Second, I'm guessing you missed Jeter's thunderous slam yesterday, Young's tomahawks through the year, and Artis' athletic ability to get to the hoop at points.

As far as Robinson, well, he is basically TJ McConnel with less of a supporting cast....who is exactly the guy many on here pined for for many years. He is what he is, and just because he doesn't fit YOUR idea of what a PG should be doesn't mean he is bad.

And height? I didn't realize that was the end all be all of things? Remember Dejuan Blair? Maia and ANO. Anya stinks from NC State. UNC doesn't have a 7 footer...Duke has Plumee, who took four years to develop. Those guys really don't grow on trees.

And no, not everyone else is dirty, but your desire to be dirty and be like Louisville, especially if you went to Pitt, is pretty odd, and rather myopic at the same time. Do you really put that much value on sports that you want an academic institution to compromise it's ethics?

1) I attended the Kent St game and we easily could have lost. KS took the momentum from us at one point. They got 2 T's that really helped keep them at bay. The talent was pretty similar with a slight edge to us.
2) You are clearly biased if u think TJ, who is playing in the NBA is on par with JR. Let's be real.
3) Our guys have their moments once in awhile, but most teams in the ACC are more talented.
4) Stop with the excuses and holier than thou crap. This staff needs to recruit better. Bottom line.

 

[Ski11585]

1) I attended the Kent St game and we easily could have lost. KS took the momentum from us at one point. They got 2 T's that really helped keep them at bay. The talent was pretty similar with a slight edge to us.
2) You are clearly biased if u think TJ, who is playing in the NBA is on par with JR. Let's be real.
3) Our guys have their moments once in awhile, but most teams in the ACC are more talented.
4) Stop with the excuses and holier than thou crap. This staff needs to recruit better. Bottom line.

You really don't think that if Robinson had the luxury of playing with the type of cast that McConnell had his senior year he wouldn't be able to get a shot as an undrafted rookie on a team that's trying to lose every game?

 

[UPitt129]

1) I attended the Kent St game and we easily could have lost. KS took the momentum from us at one point. They got 2 T's that really helped keep them at bay. The talent was pretty similar with a slight edge to us.
2) You are clearly biased if u think TJ, who is playing in the NBA is on par with JR. Let's be real.
3) Our guys have their moments once in awhile, but most teams in the ACC are more talented.
4) Stop with the excuses and holier than thou crap. This staff needs to recruit better. Bottom line.

1.) WOW, that is some revisionist history!!!! Pitt never led by less than 7 in the second half, and led by 10-15 points most of the time. The double technical you were talking about as some huge turning point happened when Pitt was up 11, and had scored the last 4 points, so you really remembered wrong there too. Pitt also blasted a Duquesne team that would probably be a high level team in the MAC.

2. TJ was never flashy at AZ, was a facilitator, and had a better supporting cast. Watching TJ play, I never got the impression he was any quicker or better than James, just better players around him. The stats are also very similar also between the two.

3. Yeah, no crap,....but that was never the argument...the argument was that we are MAC level which was dumb.

4. I said that. Thanks.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

This is not accurate. OKC uses him exactly the same way Pitt did.

And of course Steve has improved as a pro, but that has been completely proportional to his experience.

The largest improvement Steve made was actually during his year at Pitt. Especially from between when I saw him in his prep school game and the summer league, to when he first started playing games at Pitt.

People don't seem to grasp this simple concept.

he's playing more Minutes per game and he's a few years older..so he's improved, as you'd expect.
Watch OKC play...he's used exactly the same way we used him.
He screens. He defends. He blocks shots and rebounds. Oh..and he gets his offense off the rim, lobs, and occasionally off pick and roll.
in other words..they use him in their offense the EXACT same way Pitt did.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

1) I attended the Kent St game and we easily could have lost. KS took the momentum from us at one point. They got 2 T's that really helped keep them at bay. The talent was pretty similar with a slight edge to us.
2) You are clearly biased if u think TJ, who is playing in the NBA is on par with JR. Let's be real.
3) Our guys have their moments once in awhile, but most teams in the ACC are more talented.
4) Stop with the excuses and holier than thou crap. This staff needs to recruit better. Bottom line.

I'd say TJ is a bit better than James...because he could shoot slightly better, and generated turnovers better.
Otherwise, yes..they are very similar players.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

We have talent- ie. skill level. We have plenty of players with a high level of basketball skills.
We do lack athleticism- ie- strength and quick/high jumping ability. Young and Artis are REALLY skilled. but are below average athletes- ie, are below the rim players.

And that is the difference between your elite/lottery players vs players we get. We always have players with a significant "flaw" to prevent them from being NBA player or impact player. Not saying this as a blame game, just it is what it is.

Sam Young didn't have a good handle to play the 3, and was too small to play the 4.
Dejaun Blair was 6'6" and a Center.
Brandin Knight was 6'0" and not the best pure athlete.
Julius Page was a superior athlete but not a good enough shooter.
Chevy Troutman was 6'6" and not a great leaper.
Anyone remember a Carl Krauser dunk?
Aaron Gray was as athletic as a milk cow.
Levon Kendall could only score 40 if he was playing in Canada.
Cam Wright is a worse outside shooter than I am. And I am talking I am now.
OLett was 6'5".
Gary McGhee was good size for a Center, but his offensive game was limited to dunks.

And there is the poster boy for Pitt BB. Naz Robinson. The 6'3" power forward with the range of Gary McGhee, yet the heart and toughness of James Connor.

 

[Piranha]

1.) WOW, that is some revisionist history!!!! Pitt never led by less than 7 in the second half, and led by 10-15 points most of the time. The double technical you were talking about as some huge turning point happened when Pitt was up 11, and had scored the last 4 points, so you really remembered wrong there too. Pitt also blasted a Duquesne team that would probably be a high level team in the MAC.

2. TJ was never flashy at AZ, was a facilitator, and had a better supporting cast. Watching TJ play, I never got the impression he was any quicker or better than James, just better players around him. The stats are also very similar also between the two.

3. Yeah, no crap,....but that was never the argument...the argument was that we are MAC level which was dumb.

4. I said that. Thanks.

TJ is playing in the NBA. JR is about the 10th best PG in the ACC. Tino Sunseri played a ton and had really good numbers as well.

 

[Ski11585]

TJ is playing in the NBA. JR is about the 10th best PG in the ACC. Tino Sunseri played a ton and had really good numbers as well.

Good for him. He says for a team trying to lose. I will ridicule that franchise every chance I can.

 

[bobfree]

Jesus...so much wrong here.

First off, this team does not have MAC level talent. In the MAC, Pitt would probably lose one, maybe two games at most. We easily beat a pretty good MAC school in Kent State.

Second, I'm guessing you missed Jeter's thunderous slam yesterday, Young's tomahawks through the year, and Artis' athletic ability to get to the hoop at points.

As far as Robinson, well, he is basically TJ McConnel with less of a supporting cast....who is exactly the guy many on here pined for for many years. He is what he is, and just because he doesn't fit YOUR idea of what a PG should be doesn't mean he is bad.

And height? I didn't realize that was the end all be all of things? Remember Dejuan Blair? Maia and ANO. Anya stinks from NC State. UNC doesn't have a 7 footer...Duke has Plumee, who took four years to develop. Those guys really don't grow on trees.

And no, not everyone else is dirty, but your desire to be dirty and be like Louisville, especially if you went to Pitt, is pretty odd, and rather myopic at the same time. Do you really put that much value on sports that you want an academic institution to compromise it's ethics?

Did you go to Pitt?

 

[Piranha]

Good for him. He says for a team trying to lose. I will ridicule that franchise every chance I can.

He is going to end up being a multi-millionaire playing the game he loves. If he plays his cards right, then he could retire by the age of 30 and live comfortably the rest of his life. Meanwhile u are ridiculing his team behind a keyboard. Carry on.

 

[martingale]

We have talent- ie. skill level. We have plenty of players with a high level of basketball skills.
We do lack athleticism- ie- strength and quick/high jumping ability. Young and Artis are REALLY skilled. but are below average athletes- ie, are below the rim players.

I can agree with this. Young lacks the size and strength to be a good post player. Artis lacks the quickness to be a true slasher. Both of them rely on their jump shot way to much.

Put it this way..Young has much more skill that Talib Zanna, but Zanna is the much more valuable player for Pitt. That because Zanna is taller and stronger, which is part of the athletic ability that Pitt used to have.

 

[Ski11585]

He is going to end up being a multi-millionaire playing the game he loves. If he plays his cards right, then he could retire by the age of 30 and live comfortably the rest of his life. Meanwhile u are ridiculing his team behind a keyboard. Carry on.

If he lasts three years in the league I'll never post here again. He plays for a garbage team. It is he only team in the NBA that would take him.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I'd say TJ is a bit better than James...because he could shoot slightly better, and generated turnovers better.
Otherwise, yes..they are very similar players.

McConnell is a little better in all areas. Better defender, better shooter, better at creating, better leader/floor general. He has a slight edge in everything. I do think that AZ wins the same amount of games if they had Robinson. On the contrary, I think we would be a little better had he we had McConnell.

 

[vinniep33]

As far as Robinson, well, he is basically TJ McConnel with less of a supporting cast....who is exactly the guy many on here pined for for many years. He is what he is, and just because he doesn't fit YOUR idea of what a PG should be doesn't mean he is bad

That statement proves that you know nothing about guard play. Wow!!

 

[pittbb80]

PGs with marginal athletic abiity who do not have a reliable shot regularly make NBA teams........... Since theres not much difference between JR and TJ im sure he'll be playing in the league next year as well.............

 

[Delpanther]

You really don't think that if Robinson had the luxury of playing with the type of cast that McConnell had his senior year he wouldn't be able to get a shot as an undrafted rookie on a team that's trying to lose every game?

Whatever talent Robinson is surrounded with that team wouldn't play up to its potential offensively because Robinson is no offensive threat which means the defense can always double somebody else.

 

[Delpanther]

We have talent- ie. skill level. We have plenty of players with a high level of basketball skills.
We do lack athleticism- ie- strength and quick/high jumping ability. Young and Artis are REALLY skilled. but are below average athletes- ie, are below the rim players.

Wrong, as usual. There's not a single player on this team that all of the BB skills you'd like to have given the position they play. Hell, they only have 2 or 3 guys on the team who can shoot a jump shot and those guys lack something else, like ball handling or quickness.

 

[DT_PITT]

Wrong, as usual. There's not a single player on this team that all of the BB skills you'd like to have given the position they play. Hell, they only have 2 or 3 guys on the team who can shoot a jump shot and those guys lack something else, like ball handling or quickness.

If you don't think Mike and Jamel don't have the optimal offensive attributes as a four and three respectively, then I can't even fathom what your expectations or perspective could be.

 

[whirlybird optio]

If you don't think Mike and Jamel don't have the optimal offensive attributes as a four and three respectively, then I can't even fathom what your expectations or perspective could be.

Unless he considers "defense" a skill. But you are right, if we are talking purely offensive skills, Jamel and Mike have everything you would want in a 3 and 4, but their problem seems to be between the ears, and as much as I hate to say this, heart.

I also think that maybe as early as next season, Wilson-Cam-Luther might have those skills needed to be complete players, we will see how they develop.

It's abundantly clear though that we do not have anything resembling a complete, skilled, player at the 2 or 5.

 

[UPitt129]

PGs with marginal athletic abiity who do not have a reliable shot regularly make NBA teams........... Since theres not much difference between JR and TJ im sure he'll be playing in the league next year as well.............

If James went to AZ, duke, unc, etc, he would be in the nba next year.

I am assuming you really haven't watched tj play..ever.

 

[Piranha]

If James went to AZ, duke, unc, etc, he would be in the nba next year.

I am assuming you really haven't watched tj play..ever.

That is one of the dumber statements I have read on here. The NBA does not care where you go to school. If JR played on a Top 5 team, then he would be on the bench.