Team DEPTH

[Pittisit4me]

We need more depth to win games like this. Why can't Drumgoole and Coulibaly at least get 5-8 minutes a game? If these two aren't even good enough to see the floor as a freshman then I have a hard time believing they are the type of players who can help build this program.

Capel knows we have to go deeper, it was up to him to get this roster up to speed. I know the cupboard was totally bare but, I expected both Drumgoole and Coulibaly to play at least a limited role on this team. I really thought Drumgoole could be good. Perhaps the injury derailed any chance of him having any impact this season. Needless to say, we are gonna be in many tight ones, and without the necessary depth, we are going to always be tired at the end.

 

[FireballZ]

We need more depth to win games like this. Why can't Drumgoole and Coulibaly at least get 5-8 minutes a game? If these two aren't even good enough to see the floor as a freshman then I have a hard time believing they are the type of players who can help build this program.

Capel knows we have to go deeper, it was up to him to get this roster up to speed. I know the cupboard was totally bare but, I expected both Drumgoole and Coulibaly to play at least a limited role on this team. I really thought Drumgoole could be good. Perhaps the injury derailed any chance of him having any impact this season. Needless to say, we are gonna be in many tight ones, and without the necessary depth, we are going to always be tired at the end.

I’m sure he tried, but this team would be world’s better if he had gotten a grad transfer PG and a PF that could simply rebound, set high screens and contribute some put backs. I’m not talking world-beaters. Simple Hamilton-level guys.

I’m guessing that maybe he, like us, thought the two guys you mentioned above would be much more capable to stepping right in and contributing something, anything, off the bench. Just goes to show how hard it is for non-top 100 type of players to contribute early in this league. Helps explain two years ago.

 

[Pittisit4me]

I’m sure he tried, but this team would be world’s better if he had gotten a grad transfer PG and a PF that could simply rebound, set high screens and contribute some put backs. I’m not talking world-beaters. Simple Hamilton-level guys.

I’m guessing that maybe he, like us, thought the two guys you mentioned above would be much more capable to stepping right in and contributing something, anything, off the bench. Just goes to show how hard it is for non-top 100 type of players to contribute early in this league. Helps explain two years ago.

Thanks for taking time to respond. I do think this is maybe the team's biggest issue right now. I thought this thread might get a few more comments. Depth is a huge problem. Going only 7 deep is not good when you are a young team in the ACC. Capel has to do better.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

We need more depth to win games like this. Why can't Drumgoole and Coulibaly at least get 5-8 minutes a game? If these two aren't even good enough to see the floor as a freshman then I have a hard time believing they are the type of players who can help build this program.

Capel knows we have to go deeper, it was up to him to get this roster up to speed. I know the cupboard was totally bare but, I expected both Drumgoole and Coulibaly to play at least a limited role on this team. I really thought Drumgoole could be good. Perhaps the injury derailed any chance of him having any impact this season. Needless to say, we are gonna be in many tight ones, and without the necessary depth, we are going to always be tired at the end.

There is none. We were on Death Row when Capel was hired.

 

[Sheriffjim]

There is none. We were on Death Row when Capel was hired.

No doubt Marty. We’re seeing right now that when you add more minutes if you were people you’re going to lose more possessions Because of fatigue. Those are possessions that we will win as we add quality depth And these young players like Drumgoole and Coulibaly develop.

 

[Sheriffjim]

Apologies because of Siri. What I meant to say is that when you add minutes to fewer playersYou’re going to lose more possessions because of fatigue. Those are possessions that we will win as we add quality depth and these young players like Drumgoole and Coulibaly develop

 

[FireballZ]

I'd love to blame it on fatigue, except we see our players (and coaches) make the same mistakes over and over at the end of close games two years running...not a 'sky is falling' post, just how I see it. I feel like I haven't seen a decent play drawn-up and/or executed after a late game, key situation time out all season long.

 

[CCHS82]

Unless there is an injury issue, Drumgoole needs to play a little and be brought along for depth, offense, length, development, and to keep him happy.

Yes, I know, some will argue that this kid is not ready and we cannot afford to be playing him at all while we are caught up in tight games. We're in a pickle. I agree that this is a tough spot and we don't have a pre-season anymore but here's my reasoning:

*We need to go more than 7 deep. We have far too many guys, especially young guys, playing near 40 minutes a game. They will take plays off, lose focus, and will have no legs left by the end of the year or at the end of a game. Capel has these guys playing their a$$es off. They never quit. I applaud that but no legs means no defense and no shot. Hell, we can't hit shots even with fresh legs.

*We need more offense, another shooter. Drumgoole showed that he could hit the three in HS and be a good passer, an unselfish player. These are two things that this team is deficient in. Some have argued that his shooting sucks so far. That may be true but it is a small sample size. Hell, we can nitpick certain games from Penny, Murph, X, and Trey and come up with low shooting certain numbers. Maybe even over the season so far!

*Gerald is longer than Murphy and I believe more athletic. That's all that needs to be said on this point.

*Gerald didn't have the luxury of working thru things in the OOC schedule. He's going to have to do it thru the grind and competitiveness of the ACC schedule. He needs to learn what he has to work on and so do the coaches. They need to find out what they have in him and maybe utilize some of his skill sets.

*We know what we have in Murphy. He is limited. There's only so much upside there. He is a stop gap or a bridge in the overall arch of this program. He is a piano carrier, not a piano player. Yes, I think with an off season, he too can work on a few things and contribute even more next year but our future lies with Drumgoole. He was what, a top 150 recruit. We need to bring this kid along, give him some love, and not run the risk of losing him as a transfer in the off season. Believe me, this is a concern of mine.

I know that Capel wants to win now and so do I. It's a tough call to balance winning now and to win long term. IMHO, Capel can find a few minutes a game, each and every game, with this kid and still remain competitive. Also, let's face it. The guys that have been on the floor have not been getting it done. We have more losses than wins. We struggle with shooting, mental lapses, tired legs, and selfish play. I hope that Capel finds a way to get the kid some PT.

 

[lilspainishflea]

This was my complaint about XJ's turnover prone first few games. Teams like RMU and Monmouth were allowed to hang around and Drumgoole and Coulibaly didn't get the minutes that they needed. Losing 2 OOC games against cupcakes to play FSU and UL before Christmas also really hurt.

Unfortunately, it is what it is. We're in rock fights most nights. We can't win unless we play our best roster. But our best roster (right now) does not include guys that we need to win down the road. So those guys don't get the minutes they need to get better.

I agree with @CCHS82 that Drumgoole needs to play at least 5 mins regardless of the score of the game. He has the size. He has the pedigree. He has a skillset that we need (even if we haven't seen it yet in college). We can't trot Murphy out there for 25-40 mins while leaving a 4* shooter on the bench all year.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I don't think that Drumgoole is going to do much to hel the this year, but I can see the argument in saying get him in during breaks in play going into the commercial timeouts once in the first and second half to squeeze 5-6 minutes out of him to give the top 4 guys a blow.

The problem is that because of the lack of talent overall, it is bad enough that he likely won't do much, but taking X, Trey or Champ, off the court really degrades the overall talent on the court.

He already has to compromise to the world he lives in at center ...

 

[gary2]

I don't think that Drumgoole is going to do much to hel the this year, but I can see the argument in saying get him in during breaks in play going into the commercial timeouts once in the first and second half to squeeze 5-6 minutes out of him to give the top 4 guys a blow.

The problem is that because of the lack of talent overall, it is bad enough that he likely won't do much, but taking X, Trey or Champ, off the court really degrades the overall talent on the court.

He already has to compromise to the world he lives in at center ...

I guess he could take some of the Murphy time, but I don't think that is a good idea. He might help some on defense, but I think that would be a net loss.

What I would rather see is 2 minutes early each half for the walk on point guard. If Trey or X are on the court with him, his lack of offense is not a factor. I feel the kid can hold the fort. He will not hurt the team.

A fresher Trey and X at the end of the half and end of the game, can't be a bad thing.

 

[Pittisit4me]

This was my complaint about XJ's turnover prone first few games. Teams like RMU and Monmouth were allowed to hang around and Drumgoole and Coulibaly didn't get the minutes that they needed. Losing 2 OOC games against cupcakes to play FSU and UL before Christmas also really hurt.

Unfortunately, it is what it is. We're in rock fights most nights. We can't win unless we play our best roster. But our best roster (right now) does not include guys that we need to win down the road. So those guys don't get the minutes they need to get better.

I agree with @CCHS82 that Drumgoole needs to play at least 5 mins regardless of the score of the game. He has the size. He has the pedigree. He has a skillset that we need (even if we haven't seen it yet in college). We can't trot Murphy out there for 25-40 mins while leaving a 4* shooter on the bench all year.

Murphy looked good in the non-conference. He has been exposed during ACC play. A little too slow, not long enough or tall enough and his strength, which is shooting, has even gone south.

Somebody has to eat some of his minutes. There has been some discussion that Drumgoole has not fully recovered from his injury. If he is 85 to 90 percent and can handle the pain, he needs to play some. Unless he is a turnover machine, he can't do a hell of alot worse than Murph. He is a much better overall athlete.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I guess he could take some of the Murphy time, but I don't think that is a good idea. He might help some on defense, but I think that would be a net loss.

What I would rather see is 2 minutes early each half for the walk on point guard. If Trey or X are on the court with him, his lack of offense is not a factor. I feel the kid can hold the fort. He will not hurt the team.

A fresher Trey and X at the end of the half and end of the game, can't be a bad thing.

Worth considering!

 

[PittMan 72]

Murphy looked good in the non-conference. He has been exposed during ACC play. A little too slow, not long enough or tall enough and his strength, which is shooting, has even gone south.

Somebody has to eat some of his minutes. There has been some discussion that Drumgoole has not fully recovered from his injury. If he is 85 to 90 percent and can handle the pain, he needs to play some. Unless he is a turnover machine, he can't do a hell of alot worse than Murph. He is a much better overall athlete.

Have noticed it particularly in the 2H of recent games. For example in the WF game, he started out blazing. Then went silent late in the game. No 2H points last night again.

Seems a bit hesitant to pull the trigger later in games right now, even when he gets the ball and is open. But Pitt really needs him to produce. As has been said by Pitt players and fans in past years though: "We all we got". Pitt's team and the guys getting the majority of the minutes are the ones who will have to get the job done the rest of the way. The cavalry is not on the way; at least for the balance of this season. So everyone will have to do all they can to step it up.

 

[PittInMissouri]

So the premise of the OP is that if the true freshmen aren't playing right now, then they'll never be ACC contributors? Not the first time I've seen a take like that, but c'mon. There are hundreds of guys every year that don't play much, if at all, as freshmen. This has been and will be especially true at most schools not named Duke or Kentucky.

 

[Pittisit4me]

So the premise of the OP is that if the true freshmen aren't playing right now, then they'll never be ACC contributors? Not the first time I've seen a take like that, but c'mon. There are hundreds of guys every year that don't play much, if at all, as freshmen. This has been and will be especially true at most schools not named Duke or Kentucky.

Not the premise at all. The premise is we need more depth. Maybe the comment you are referring to I made out of frustration. That said, I believe that many of us thought that Drumgoole would have some role this season and there would be some development. I realize there was an injury,but, he started on the number one highschool team in the country, and was shooting the ball fairly well.

I agree, we are not and never will be Duke or Kentucky, but I don't think it is too much to ask for a top 150ish player to actually play some minutes as a freshman. It is incomprehensible to me, that he would be so bad that he can't enter the game for 5-8 minutes. X and Trey log to many minutes. Murph logs way more than he should get.

AKC should be considered as well. What do we do with these kids in practice? Work them hard and get them up to speed. I am not expecting starter minutes here. I just want them to lessen the burden on our guys who log big minutes so their legs won't feel like rubber under them at the end of close ballgames.

 

[Tonyt66]

We need more depth to win games like this. Why can't Drumgoole and Coulibaly at least get 5-8 minutes a game? If these two aren't even good enough to see the floor as a freshman then I have a hard time believing they are the type of players who can help build this program.

Capel knows we have to go deeper, it was up to him to get this roster up to speed. I know the cupboard was totally bare but, I expected both Drumgoole and Coulibaly to play at least a limited role on this team. I really thought Drumgoole could be good. Perhaps the injury derailed any chance of him having any impact this season. Needless to say, we are gonna be in many tight ones, and without the necessary depth, we are going to always be tired at the end.

I agree with you all the way but I think he seen drumgoole is just not in game shape yet. He came back looking a little slow a little thick but I do expect him to get some playing time coming up maybe 5 to 10 minutes and AKC he gives us energy sometimes but he's just not an offensive threat and when we need to score there's no sense of putting him on the floor right now

 

[rockypanther]

We need more depth to win games like this. Why can't Drumgoole and Coulibaly at least get 5-8 minutes a game? If these two aren't even good enough to see the floor as a freshman then I have a hard time believing they are the type of players who can help build this program.

Capel knows we have to go deeper, it was up to him to get this roster up to speed. I know the cupboard was totally bare but, I expected both Drumgoole and Coulibaly to play at least a limited role on this team. I really thought Drumgoole could be good. Perhaps the injury derailed any chance of him having any impact this season. Needless to say, we are gonna be in many tight ones, and without the necessary depth, we are going to always be tired at the end.

I think that it's difficult because of inexperience. As good as Champagnie is he makes mistakes that are costly like leaving the corner open in OT when they hit the 3pter to go up by 5.

Because of the way AAU and prep programs are run, most players aren't taught or use man to man half court defensive principles. So they don't have the awareness or anticipation to get to the right spots on time in defense.

I was at a high school game the other night watching a highly regarded sophomore player. All both teams did was trap and do dribble drives. No screens on offense, no offensive players relocating on the 3 point line or a pass ever being kicked out, and absolutely zero post moves. I saw one attempt at a post move which was a simple drop step and it was a travel. And of course kids never locate and box out.

So a kid may have size and talent as a freshman but they will mostly be a liability during crucial parts of close games.