The flood gates are bursting at the seams

[RaleighPittFan]

NCAA agrees to temporary injunction granting eligibility for multi-time transfers until end of spring sports

A U.S. District Court judge in West Virginia issued a ruling against the NCAA's transfer restrictions

www.cbssports.com

 

[pittdan77]

NCAA agrees to temporary injunction granting eligibility for multi-time transfers until end of spring sports

A U.S. District Court judge in West Virginia issued a ruling against the NCAA's transfer restrictions

www.cbssports.com

Oh no, how could he????

Anyway....

 

[DruidTM]

This quote


“The decision marks another blow against the NCAA, which is reeling amid a changing a landscape in college sports that has seen the organizing body lose its ability to effectively govern.”

Is beyond ridiculous

The NCAA has not tried to regulate a damn thing… they didn’t care to do anything… the same governing agency who got worked up about free tattoos and shoes has done nothing to regulate anything… they.never.even.tried.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

NCAA agrees to temporary injunction granting eligibility for multi-time transfers until end of spring sports

A U.S. District Court judge in West Virginia issued a ruling against the NCAA's transfer restrictions

www.cbssports.com

The funny thing this all came about because the NCAA ruled that WVU basketball player Raequan Battle ineligible after making his 2nd transfer. The WV government stepped in. WVU paid very good money for Battle so they cant waste him on the bench.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Academic eligibility requirements are next.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Academic eligibility requirements are next.

And after that, the arbitrary 4 year eligibility rule will be eliminated. Indefinite eligibility.

 

[USN_Panther]

Academic eligibility requirements are next.

Will they need to make the game accessible to the disabled? Put a running back in a mobility scooter with low centre of gravity and no one is bringing them down. If they have no knees, the knee can never be down.
But seriously, there will be no rules.

 

[Hardslider21]

The funny thing this all came about because the NCAA ruled that WVU basketball player Raequan Battle ineligible after making his 2nd transfer. The WV government stepped in. WVU paid very good money for Battle so they cant waste him on the bench.

Yet the Florida Legislature court filing did nothing that helped out FSU. The committee responded with we left FSU out because of your strength of schedule and your QB injury. Which only fueled their hatred for the ACC.

 

[CJsE]

This quote


“The decision marks another blow against the NCAA, which is reeling amid a changing a landscape in college sports that has seen the organizing body lose its ability to effectively govern.”

Is beyond ridiculous

The NCAA has not tried to regulate a damn thing… they didn’t care to do anything… the same governing agency who got worked up about free tattoos and shoes has done nothing to regulate anything… they.never.even.tried.

Because the NCAA has just been trying to buy time for Congress to step in. It's been obvious since the O'Bannon decision in 2014 that the NCAA was finished without an antitrust exemption. They've been heavily lobbying for it the entire time while trying to loosen rules up just enough to not hasten lawsuits or have the conferences break away on their own.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Perhaps a lawyer can explain this to me but what authority does a US District Court have in saying how the NCAA can administer its transfer rules. I dont get it. Is the NCAA not allowed to have rules? Can a US District judge rule that the NCAA include all teams in its tournaments or that it can't suspend players for helmet to helmet hits? Honestly, looking for an explanation.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Perhaps a lawyer can explain this to me but what authority does a US District Court have in saying how the NCAA can administer its transfer rules. I dont get it. Is the NCAA not allowed to have rules? Can a US District judge rule that the NCAA include all teams in its tournaments or that it can't suspend players for helmet to helmet hits? Honestly, looking for an explanation.

Yeah, why can't that judge understand that the NCAA should be above the law?

It would be so much better for us college sports fans.

 

[Conemaugh]

Yeah, why can't that judge understand that the NCAA should be above the law?

It would be so much better for us college sports fans.

Which law exactly?

 

[CJsE]

Which law exactly?

Not a lawyer, but knows the secret web address that is Google.com

Tortious Interference
Breach of Contract
Sherman Act 15 U.S.C. §§ 1, 2
West Virginia Antitrust Act §§ 47-18-3 , 47-18-4

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Not a lawyer, but knows the secret web address that is Google.com

Tortious Interference
Breach of Contract
Sherman Act 15 U.S.C. §§ 1, 2
West Virginia Antitrust Act §§ 47-18-3 , 47-18-4

Ok but break it down for me. Lets say Ohio State loses a star player due to a helmet to helmet hit, can they sue the NCAA and potentially win? If the NCAA tells Boise State they can no longer wear blue at home or Michigan State they cant wear green at home because its too confusing for the defense, can they sue the NCAA? I mean, to me, these are league rules. NIL was different. I get why the US could rule on that. I dont get why the US has authority on transfer rules or possible suspensions.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Which law exactly?

This is what I'd like to know. Whatever law was broken, how did they apply that to transfers sitting out?

 

[CJsE]

Ok but break it down for me. Lets say Ohio State loses a star player due to a helmet to helmet hit, can they sue the NCAA and potentially win? If the NCAA tells Boise State they can no longer wear blue at home or Michigan State they cant wear green at home because its too confusing for the defense, can they sue the NCAA? I mean, to me, these are league rules. NIL was different. I get why the US could rule on that. I dont get why the US has authority on transfer rules or possible suspensions.

There are many reasons, that's why complaints aren't filed on post-it notes.

In the language of antitrust law, the Transfer Eligibility Rule is a no-poach agreement
between horizontal competitor member schools that serves to allocate the market for the labor of
NCAA Division I college athletes. This agreement plainly violates the Sherman Act. The fact
that it was created under the auspices of the NCAA does not shield it from antitrust scrutiny. In
contrast to college athletes, students with academic or music scholarships can freely transfer
institutions without facing similar restraints on their ability to practice their craft. Likewise,
coaches and administrators face no comparable barriers.

https://ago.wv.gov/Documents/NCAA%20complaint.pdf

 

[cashisking884]

Ok but break it down for me. Lets say Ohio State loses a star player due to a helmet to helmet hit, can they sue the NCAA and potentially win? If the NCAA tells Boise State they can no longer wear blue at home or Michigan State they cant wear green at home because its too confusing for the defense, can they sue the NCAA? I mean, to me, these are league rules. NIL was different. I get why the US could rule on that. I dont get why the US has authority on transfer rules or possible suspensions.

Sure, if those rules possibly violated other laws.

This isn’t as difficult as you are making it out to be.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

There are many reasons, that's why complaints aren't filed on post-it notes.

https://ago.wv.gov/Documents/NCAA%20complaint.pdf

A couple holes in this:

- "labor market" - these are "students" not performing "labor," right? I mean we know they are pros now but they technically arent since they arent employees. So doesn't that shoot this right down?

- "no-poach" - is the similar to a non-compete? Why are non-competes legal?

- Is competitive balance enough of a reason for the NCAA to have this transfer rule? Seems like the Fed Gov shouldn't tell a sports league how to run their league. If Caleb Williams wants to sign with a great team, can he sue and the Fed. Gov say the NFL's attempt at competitive balance illegal?

 

[cashisking884]

- "no-poach" - is the similar to a non-compete? Why are non-competes legal?

They are but illegal in some states.

And even stated that allow them have limitations, which the NCAA completely ignores. A non-compete that isn’t limited by geographic proximity? Good luck with that.

 

[CJsE]

A couple holes in this:

- "labor market" - these are "students" not performing "labor," right? I mean we know they are pros now but they technically arent since they arent employees. So doesn't that shoot this right down?

- "no-poach" - is the similar to a non-compete? Why are non-competes legal?

- Is competitive balance enough of a reason for the NCAA to have this transfer rule? Seems like the Fed Gov shouldn't tell a sports league how to run their league. If Caleb Williams wants to sign with a great team, can he sue and the Fed. Gov say the NFL's attempt at competitive balance illegal?

-They are only non-employees so long as the courts rule they are not employees, which has not been fully established and the topic of multiple current lawsuits. Students and interns are also not considered employees under the FLSA in most circumstances, but there are several factors that can determine if they should be considered employees. Up until now courts have narrowly ruled on the matter siding with the NCAA, but most recent rulings show that might not be the case if you get it to higher courts.

- 2 things about non-competes.
1. That's what the entire antitrust issue is about. The schools would be free to set their own rules on transfers, but the NCAA restricts them from doing so. The NCAA doesn't run the conferences or the schools, they are a governing body over an entire industry.
2. Non-competes are not legal in some states and heavily restricted in most states. Crossing state lines is sometimes enough for courts to throw out a non-compete.

- Professional sports teams get away with it because courts generally rely on the power of a players' union and collective bargaining.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

-They are only non-employees so long as the courts rule they are not employees, which has not been fully established and the topic of multiple current lawsuits. Students and interns are also not considered employees under the FLSA in most circumstances, but there are several factors that can determine if they should be considered employees. Up until now courts have narrowly ruled on the matter siding with the NCAA, but most recent rulings show that might not be the case if you get it to higher courts.

- 2 things about non-competes.
1. That's what the entire antitrust issue is about. The schools would be free to set their own rules on transfers, but the NCAA restricts them from doing so. The NCAA doesn't run the conferences or the schools, they are a governing body over an entire industry.
2. Non-competes are not legal in some states and heavily restricted in most states. Crossing state lines is sometimes enough for courts to throw out a non-compete.

- Professional sports teams get away with it because courts generally rely on the power of a players' union and collective bargaining.

Thanks to you 2 for your responses. I keep coming back to the fact that these students are not performing "labor" and not employees, I dont see how they can use the no-poach. I get that eventually they will be employees but right now they arent. They aren't making $1 from the schools.

 

[cashisking884]

Thanks to you 2 for your responses. I keep coming back to the fact that these students are not performing "labor" and not employees, I dont see how they can use the no-poach. I get that eventually they will be employees but right now they arent. They aren't making $1 from the schools.

But it was brought under anti-trust.

You’re looking at it from the eyes of a master-servant relationship.

But for purposes of anti-trust, you look at it from Company to company.

It’s possible that that players aren’t employees, *and* there are still a host of violations taking place under anti-trust law.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

But for purposes of anti-trust, you look at it from Company to company.

It’s possible that that players aren’t employees, *and* there are still a host of violations taking place under anti-trust law.

Yea, I just dont get it. And Im not the only one since it took 100 years for someone to think the Fed Gov needed to step in and overrule the NCAA's transfer rule. And it took a WV basketball player and a WV judge to do it. Because God forbid you sit out this year and play next year when the team will be much better.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Which law exactly?

Antitrust law. Which is why the NCAA desperately wishes that Congress would give them an antitrust exemption like the pro sports leagues have.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Yea, I just dont get it. And Im not the only one since it took 100 years for someone to think the Fed Gov needed to step in and overrule the NCAA's transfer rule. And it took a WV basketball player and a WV judge to do it. Because God forbid you sit out this year and play next year when the team will be much better.

That first sentence is pretty much your motto, isn't it?

It took this long for someone to challenge the transfer rules because the rules used to be hard and fast and everyone accepted them. And then they changed the rules. And then they gave out exemptions to the changes. And then the changed the rules again. And then they decided that they were only going to give out some exemptions but not others. They made it easy for someone to argue that they were being treated differently than someone else was, because they obviously are.

People are a lot more willing to accept "these are the rules and they apply to everyone", even if their legality is questionable, than they are to accept "these are the rules, but they don't apply to everyone, and sometimes we will give exemptions to the rules and other times we won't". Because it's easy to think that you aren't being treated fairly in a system like that.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That first sentence is pretty much your motto, isn't it?

It took this long for someone to challenge the transfer rules because the rules used to be hard and fast and everyone accepted them.

Yea.....no

You mean to tell me that no one in the history of the NCAA ever thought "man, if Johnny didnt have to sit out a year, we can win a National Championship" or whatever and sue the NCAA. Its never been done because they felt the federal government had no case to overturn an NCAA rule. That's why it took a WV lawsuit and a ruling by a US District Judge in WV to do it.

 

[cashisking884]

Yea, I just dont get it. And Im not the only one since it took 100 years for someone to think the Fed Gov needed to step in and overrule the NCAA's transfer rule. And it took a WV basketball player and a WV judge to do it. Because God forbid you sit out this year and play next year when the team will be much better.

To be fair, 100 years ago we had a sane reading of the Commerce Clause.

 

[cashisking884]

Yea.....no

You mean to tell me that no one in the history of the NCAA ever thought "man, if Johnny didnt have to sit out a year, we can win a National Championship" or whatever and sue the NCAA. Its never been done because they felt the federal government had no case to overturn an NCAA rule. That's why it took a WV lawsuit and a ruling by a US District Judge in WV to do it.

Have you ever read some of the stuff the federal government regulates under the commerce clause?

You think agreements amongst schools across state lines is the insane ruling? It doesn’t even make the Top 5,000.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Yea.....no

You mean to tell me that no one in the history of the NCAA ever thought "man, if Johnny didnt have to sit out a year, we can win a National Championship" or whatever and sue the NCAA. Its never been done because they felt the federal government had no case to overturn an NCAA rule. That's why it took a WV lawsuit and a ruling by a US District Judge in WV to do it.

It is OK if sometimes when you have no idea what you are talking about you just sit that discussion out.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Have you ever read some of the stuff the federal government regulates under the commerce clause?

You think agreements amongst schools across state lines is the insane ruling? It doesn’t even make the Top 5,000.

I take it you are a lawyer. I am not familiar with some of these particulars. Let me ask you this. Do you agree with this ruling? Even if so, how would you argue against it?

What are the chances that a US District Court could overturn a helmet to helmet suspension or lets say an NCAA banned substance suspension? Is the NCAA allowed to have any rules regarding players?

 

[cashisking884]

I take it you are a lawyer. I am not familiar with some of these particulars. Let me ask you this. Do you agree with this ruling? Even if so, how would you argue against it?

What are the chances that a US District Court could overturn a helmet to helmet suspension or lets say an NCAA banned substance suspension? Is the NCAA allowed to have any rules regarding players?

I haven’t read the ruling, so I can’t comment on its merits.