Actually, just wanted make Paco click.
The real truth about the Golden Panthers and Steve Pederson.
- Thread starter HailtoPitt
- Start date
Actually, just wanted make Paco click.
Can he see what he ignores? Try and tell me he is not in the perfect profession for his temperament.
Rivals has to support the status quo. Despite how bad it looks, the paid professionals will keep promoting the company line. But he did not do that with Stallings as most in the know knew his fate
Seriously? I’m guessing you aren’t a Pitt grad. Most of us who are, care about the value of our degree over the Football team. Paco speaks for Pitt grads...if not anyone who is literate.
I've explained before in similar threads that out in the regular old business world, candidates with Pitt degrees aren't seen particularly good or bad vs most other schools, including some that frequently get denigrated here, such as WVU or Louisville.
I've shared my experiences of having a WVU grad as one of the key members of a big project I've managed, while a guy from Princeton was just meh.
Some here have this wishful arrogance that Pitt is somehow ivy-like. And thus, excellence in sports is somehow a zero sum game that diminishes that (delusional, mistaken) perception.
On the contrary, for a school bunched in the scatter points like Pitt (and thus, its grads), having good sports teams could actually provide an advantage.
Such as maybe a good icebreaker in an interview, if you drew a sports oriented interviewer. Not much of a likelihood for sure. But ... I have interviewed and hired many people. Sports small talk has come up in interviews on occasion. It does happen. So if it were to occur, it may not help, but certainly doesn't hurt for your alma mater to have a successful, championship team or two, vs having bad teams.
Of course, a potential corollary might be that if our teams got SO absolutely atrocious (like basketball sadly did!) it might provide a good icebreaker too. Say you might hear "Pitt, eh? Rough season for your Panthers this year. " A good response might be, yeah, our team's been so lame, it was a better option for me to go to the library! Turn a negative into a positive!
But, assuming the teams are usually merely meh (and I think if you look up Meh in whatever constitutes a dictionary today, you'll see our logo ... block, I'd imagine)...on the whole I certainly think I'd like our teams to be good vs not. On the chance, and I'll readily admit it is a minuscule one, that it helps create a good subconscious impression for me, as a Pitt grad. Whereas, association of my degree with bad teams might create a subconscious impression of a sad sack loser. I have a hard enough time overcoming that impression with my own dubious personality and talents! Who the hell needs to overcome crappy sports teams too?
I've shared my experiences of having a WVU grad as one of the key members of a big project I've managed, while a guy from Princeton was just meh.
Some here have this wishful arrogance that Pitt is somehow ivy-like. And thus, excellence in sports is somehow a zero sum game that diminishes that (delusional, mistaken) perception.
On the contrary, for a school bunched in the scatter points like Pitt (and thus, its grads), having good sports teams could actually provide an advantage.
Such as maybe a good icebreaker in an interview, if you drew a sports oriented interviewer. Not much of a likelihood for sure. But ... I have interviewed and hired many people. Sports small talk has come up in interviews on occasion. It does happen. So if it were to occur, it may not help, but certainly doesn't hurt for your alma mater to have a successful, championship team or two, vs having bad teams.
Of course, a potential corollary might be that if our teams got SO absolutely atrocious (like basketball sadly did!) it might provide a good icebreaker too. Say you might hear "Pitt, eh? Rough season for your Panthers this year. " A good response might be, yeah, our team's been so lame, it was a better option for me to go to the library! Turn a negative into a positive!
But, assuming the teams are usually merely meh (and I think if you look up Meh in whatever constitutes a dictionary today, you'll see our logo ... block, I'd imagine)...on the whole I certainly think I'd like our teams to be good vs not. On the chance, and I'll readily admit it is a minuscule one, that it helps create a good subconscious impression for me, as a Pitt grad. Whereas, association of my degree with bad teams might create a subconscious impression of a sad sack loser. I have a hard enough time overcoming that impression with my own dubious personality and talents! Who the hell needs to overcome crappy sports teams too?
It's really about the individual too. Moreso than what school you went to. I can remember when the company that I work for now hired me, our "boss" of VP of Sales and Marketing and Technology was a PhD from Penn State. And guess what, an ex football player. During my second year, he was fired, they purged essentially the whole department (except me and another guy and I had to take over his job until they could figure out what they were going to do with us.
So again, not necessarily the school, or how big your degree is, if you lack interest, competence and personality (and intuition) you are going to struggle. But being a "Penn State PhD and ex football player" really got this guy to a level he had no business in being.
And no, I am not going to name names.
I agree. He speaks for all sane, literate and reasonable Pitt grads with a functioning brain who care about their degree. Football is a silly diversion and entertainment. It means very little and relatively speaking, brings in pocket change compared to other areas of the university on the academic and research side. It's fun to do if you have nothing else to do. That's about it. My degrees have served me well over the years and mean a lot more to me than Pitt athletics.
A lot of good points. But I think the key is when you referenced that talk about Pitt sports can make for some "small talk". Because in the end, that's all it is. The degree and what you do with it and how you use it are the driving factors.
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anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u
Guest
Speak for yourself. He's a pompous ass and deserved the bitch slapping he got the other day. You want to know what makes your degree valuable? Here is a little secret........IT'S YOU. Now go pick up your participation trophy
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Fyi, you're replying to the same poster who started a thread (with their 5th post, it appeared) "lamenting" how "worse" Pitt will be next year. Such contradiction is interesting.
Someone so enamored of their gilded Pitt degree and repulsed by success at football, as indicated by their post in this thread, wouldn't normally have gone to the trouble to start another to "complain" of the possible negative outlook for the team's future. Since its obvious the only way to correct that would be to invest more heavily...time, attention, money... in football.
But nobody said people who go to the hassle to start accounts on a rival message board is "normal".
So you let others speak for you? That is great,I personally do not, even if I agree with other people statements. I speak for myself and only myself and I refuse to let others speak for me. You would think that is how most rational people would view it but I guess not.
I see that you hold you Pitt degree in very high regards. That is cute. Here is a little clue, there are about 10-15 schools (no Pitt is not one of them) that where you went really matters on a national/world-wide scale. Plus the only reason why it matters for those 10-15 schools is because of the networks associated with them, not because of the education received.
Plus that degree from named institution is only good for the 1st job out of college. After that, it is more about your experience and ability than where you went to school. I am assuming you graduated from Pitt in 1985. Your telling me if you applied for a job today, they will care that you went to Pitt? Or would they be looking at your work history to see your experience, accomplishments? They also would look at how you present yourself. The only time they will care if you went to a certain school so many years removed from graduating from said institution is if it is between you and a few others. If the one hiring is a Pitt guy, you would then get the nod over other schools grad. That is the only time where you went to school would matter.
I have three degrees from Pitt and a 4th from another university and he sure doesn't speak for me.
Only at Pitt are people considered insane because they would like to see their school play football in their own stadium on campus. This is the same line of thinking used by those dolts in the 1970s and 1980s when they ran off good coaches and ruined the football program, just because they believed that a good football team somehow makes the academics worse.
Del whar does that loan payment look like? Lol
Man I struggle to fill out my MBA application.... 4 degrees? You are my hero
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anon_vmuicqnzlyp3u
Guest
There was a post about the Golden Panthers over the weekend. It might have been taken down but needless to say Paco was his usual pompous self and got curbed stomped
I respect those who think college sports are bad, or shouldn't exist, etc. I disagree with the extremists who think excellent college sports teams diminish the school academically, but many who post here oddly think so. I am curious why the legitimate ones (not trolls) bother to watch games or spend so much time on message boards for the sports. I guess to propagandize against anyone who calls for increased priority for the sports. But that's just fan mush, the Pitt leadership obviously isn't listening, so I just don't kno understand the time investment or particularly the anger or arrogance displayed by many.
Clearly, you academic guys won, Pitt has its sports (popular sports anyway) adequately prioritized (very lowly), the way you favor, given their poor success. You should feel fat and happy about that... complacent, really.
About the only reason to expect some of these folks to appear on boards like these to rant against sports, would be the day Pitt finally WOULD make some meaningful loud move to significantly upgrade sports (like a really ig splash coach, or announce plans to build a stadium etc.). Come here to vent about how the "jocks" are getting their way and will ruin the university.
But when I last checked the forecast for Hell, it looks like weather as usual there. I think you're safe.
I guess I'll just solicit that insight... those who have hundreds or thousands of posts here but clearly find distaste with winning sports, why? Why the distaste ... why the time wasted on a sports board ... why the continued vigilance to guard against sports abuses that effectively got wiped out in 19 freaking 82?
Clearly, you academic guys won, Pitt has its sports (popular sports anyway) adequately prioritized (very lowly), the way you favor, given their poor success. You should feel fat and happy about that... complacent, really.
About the only reason to expect some of these folks to appear on boards like these to rant against sports, would be the day Pitt finally WOULD make some meaningful loud move to significantly upgrade sports (like a really ig splash coach, or announce plans to build a stadium etc.). Come here to vent about how the "jocks" are getting their way and will ruin the university.
But when I last checked the forecast for Hell, it looks like weather as usual there. I think you're safe.
I guess I'll just solicit that insight... those who have hundreds or thousands of posts here but clearly find distaste with winning sports, why? Why the distaste ... why the time wasted on a sports board ... why the continued vigilance to guard against sports abuses that effectively got wiped out in 19 freaking 82?
Paco is a smart guy but he is ripe with an "academia" mind set. As we all know, it never translates into the real world.
This is business like in that what can be said in a few sentences took a dozen paragraphs.
I remember those Golden Panther days rather well. Those were exciting times. I was living in Harrisburg and the PITT presence was everywhere in the area. Bob H. new how to generate interest outside of Pittsburgh. Hell, there were people in the Harrisburg area that that were not alumni but active PITT supporters.
Some schools are known for good academics some are known for good sports teams. Some schools are known for both. Some alumni see sports as a distraction, some associate sports with the college experience. PITT in the past has looked upon athletics as a necessary distraction to the detriment of the football program. Many at PITT,along with some on this board, would be OK if PITT dropped football.
Gottfried and Foge were good coaches? 1984, 85, 86, 88 there were no bowl games, with rosters filled with more talent than now. 82,83 & 87 were bowl losses. Sure sign of a good coach if ever I saw one.
I guess you were a math major and not english since you used plural tense....coaches in the 80's. Should have said "This is the same line of thinking used by those dolts in the 1970s and 1980s when they ran off the only good coach in the past 35 years"
Wow, lots of misguided misinformation here. But I'll respond to this one.
No, I never let anyone speak for me. I clearly stated what I thought. I just happen to agree with the poster which I was responding to. And I'm talking ONLY about the value of a good college degree, not necessarily about a Pitt degree. If you ever took the time to read any of my other posts, you'd know where I stand. A college degree, any college degree, or any education for that matter (community college, trade school, technical school) is more valuable than a collegiate football program.That's just a fact. There is no arguing that point.
It just so happens that where I went to school is and was the topic of conversation relative to the value of my degrees. Pitt just happens to be ranked in the top 25 of all schools in the country where I received my second degree, and that helped me in my career. And yes, I graduated the second time with a graduate degree in 1985, while my employer paid for the whole thing. But I still stand by what I said before....what you do with your education is more important than where you got it. If you go to some technical school and are able to get gainfully employed and are fulfilled in your job and enjoy it, that's the ultimate goal.
Also, having good athletic programs and excellent academic programs is not mutually exclusive and that is not a zero sum game. I said this before, also. It just so happens that Pitt hasn't figured that part out yet. The old Golden Panthers were a corrupt organization that put athletics and their own purposes before that of the university. We currently have no effective athletic support organization within Pitt that can promote athletics while allowing balance with academic programs.
Also, please don't speak down to someone like you do who is probably way more experienced and seasoned in the world of work and education than you are. It makes you sound silly and your responses lack credibility as a result.
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Pitt is locked into keeping football to stay in the ACC. Not dropping it anytime soon. Nothing apparently says we need to have GOOD football I guess... not yet anyway. Interesting if there is some kind of SLA we are obligated to, over time, aka like Temple in the BE
LOL You the one who stated:
"He speaks for all sane, literate and reasonable Pitt grads"
When you make that statement you are not saying you agree with him. There is no way to interrupt it other than he speaks for you, and then you also believe you can speak for other grads. With everything you stated in the middle paragraphs, it appears that we agree.
As for speaking down to you, I was more or less speaking down to the comment of allowing other to speak for you. I do apologize for the harsh tone I used.
You shouldn’t be so down on these coaches. You forget WVU, Syracuse and BC were some of the worst programs in the country when Sherill coached. By the time Foge and Gottfried came along they all had stints in the top-10.
An unfortunate fact is that the long time "corporate culture", to coin an old phrase at Pitt does not put a high value on athletic success.
Athletic donations are typically at or near the bottom in every peer group or conference in which we have been involved.
It's just not a priority for a large portion if those who attend or are employed here, and hasn't been for many years.
This forum is devoted to fans of Pitt athletics. People have to actively enroll and on many of the forums, pay a membership fee. We SHOULD be expected to be interested in Pitt's athletic success. But, we're a minority.
For a significant portion of Pitt students, alumni, instuctors and employees, and local or regional residents, it is not particularly important. We Lair members are a very small portion of the community. The venom released here towards someone like Paco, who is very interested in Pitt athletics, is appalling.
Paco is almost always largely correct in his posts. He researches his points thoroughly. If anything, he understated some of the worst Golden Panther transgressions. I'm not claiming ALL Golden Panthers were criminals or cheaters. Many of us who were fans (and donors or boosters) in those days were Golden Panther members without being involved in rule breaking, law breaking etc.
But, those who deny serious fractions and law breaking occured are disingenuous. "Everybody does it" has never been accepted as a defense.
Athletic donations are typically at or near the bottom in every peer group or conference in which we have been involved.
It's just not a priority for a large portion if those who attend or are employed here, and hasn't been for many years.
This forum is devoted to fans of Pitt athletics. People have to actively enroll and on many of the forums, pay a membership fee. We SHOULD be expected to be interested in Pitt's athletic success. But, we're a minority.
For a significant portion of Pitt students, alumni, instuctors and employees, and local or regional residents, it is not particularly important. We Lair members are a very small portion of the community. The venom released here towards someone like Paco, who is very interested in Pitt athletics, is appalling.
Paco is almost always largely correct in his posts. He researches his points thoroughly. If anything, he understated some of the worst Golden Panther transgressions. I'm not claiming ALL Golden Panthers were criminals or cheaters. Many of us who were fans (and donors or boosters) in those days were Golden Panther members without being involved in rule breaking, law breaking etc.
But, those who deny serious fractions and law breaking occured are disingenuous. "Everybody does it" has never been accepted as a defense.
I'd agree with you that Paco is usually correct on matters that involve PITT....but he was not correct on this matter. The problem is many people supported the organization and PACO described it as some rogue, Tammany Hall esque, booster organization. It wasn't.....it had its ills....but what most of us are saying is the cure may have been worse than the disease. Paco is pushing a very one sided, untrue, narrative.
2 points I would like to make.
It is not Paco opinion/views that I take exception with. If someone has an opposing view than me, that is fine, this world would be a boring place if we all thought the same. I do take exception of his arrogance that he believes he is always right to the point that he ignores so many people that do not buy into his genius. He is not my professor. My grade does not hinge on him liking me. He needs to step away from the class room and see how the real world works.
Thanks, Harve. I boldfaced the portion of your post that I think most on here forget. I think if you walked down Fifth or Forbes and asked a cross-section of the student population if they know who the Pitt football or basketball coach is, many would not know or they'd struggle to name him. The same can be said for the general population around Pittsburgh. And of those who could name them, many would say they have no idea what our record is or who we're playing next. Only a small minority of the Pittsburgh population is able to speak as we do about Pitt athletics and name players, coaches, recruits, etc. It just isn't that important to most people around here or who attend Pitt.
Agreed. Moreover, he was commenting in a way that suggested the organization was not part of Pitt---it most certainly was Pitt. Many things have changed since the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Some good, some bad, and some mixed. My basic point and premise is/was that Pitt most certainly needs a very active booster club in order to be competitive in the ACC, and intercollegiate athletics as a whole. I strongly believe you will see considerable staffing in athletics to raise money and be far more competitive...and that will require a very active booster club [by whatever name is selected]. Hail to Pitt!
A lot of why Pittsburgh population cannot do it is 2 fold. This is a Pro town that over the last 40 years had 2 highly successful team the Steelers and the Pens. The 2nd reason is too many fans of other teams. Very few teams have to share their local market (especially one as small as Pittsburgh) with 2 other P5 teams in PSU and WVU. Those programs have a very strong presence in the WPA market. Add the fact that ND and Ohio St have strong local presence also. Not enough local fans to capture for Pitt.
I agree with you 100%. And those conditions won't change any time soon.
