Its all relative. If OSU's payroll is $13 million for 5 stars. Our payroll will be $5 million for 3 stars.
Think we can compete?
- Thread starter NCPitt
- Start date
Its all relative. If OSU's payroll is $13 million for 5 stars. Our payroll will be $5 million for 3 stars.
Fine with what?
I think it’s some of the collateral consequences of schools staying out of it, that I have a problem with. Like the lack of restraint on the number of transfers that is developing, that I have a problem with.
But if you’re asking whether I have a problem with players being paid fair market value? No.
If you’re asking do I care what that compensation for fair market value comes from, whether it be a rich booster or the school directly? I do not care.
ok but that's true for everyone, same as the schools we compete against in the ACC. if the market value escalates for a player, then someone has to pay it. if we cant, im pretty sure most of our ACC brethren cant either..
again, we have the same issues and limitations as other acc teams have and we are a hell of a lot better off than all other non P5 programs.
The Georgia site has one of UGA's top donors as a member of their site. He shared the following with their readers after a lot of discussion on their board about NIL. The indenity of this user isn't known to the fans but is known to the site's staff and he's legit. I thought you might find it interesting.
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"This is offered in response to a recent suggestion to hear from a major donor about NIL/donations, etc. I’ve contributed several million dollars to the UGA Athletic Association (and the University of Georgia) and interact regularly on these issues with the AD, coaches, and other significant donors.
I realize the following is TLDR and a lot may be self-evident but it’s a complex thing to describe. With that, here are some observations in no particular order (I’ve tried to be as fact-based as possible):
- while our NIL fund is less than TAMU and TX, in the SEC, we are competitive with/better than everyone else. To date, when we’ve lost someone due largely to NIL it’s almost always been because Kirby felt the player wasn’t worth it and/or chose not to break his “salary structure”. But other programs are raising more and more NIL money (tOSU is a good example) and with prices rising we risk falling behind. The need to increase the level at UGA is real.
- the UGAAA administration is and has been actively encouraging donors to make NIL donations; they see on-field success as key to their fundraising and feel a rising tide will lift all boats, so they are encouraging and supporting, not squelching, NIL efforts with large donors.
- but that doesn’t mean there isn’t significant tension between money raised for the Athletic Association versus money raised for NIL. The UGAAA pays for +/-20 sports so coaches’ salaries, facility improvements, operating costs, payment for scholarships, etc. all fall on UGAAA and all are escalating (yes, UGAAA pays the university for each athletic scholarship).
- those costs are rising fast and if/as growing NIL emphasis restricts their revenue, the UGAAA has three options to cover them: cut costs, generate more donations or increase prices (or a combo). NIL definitely makes UGAAA fundraising harder; it’s not a zero sum game but there definitely is overlap/impact
- also, “donor fatigue” is real and donors feel like they’re being squeezed from all sides (and not just from football; every head coach for every sport at UGA is pushing donors for NIL money - I’ve been approached directly not only by Kirby but also by the head coaches for men’s and women’s basketball, baseball, golf and track for NIL donations). All in addition to the needs of UGAAA we are asked to support. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not asking for tears - I am blessed to be able to support UGA as I have - but the mounting requests are ratcheting up the pressure on large donors and affecting giving.
- I feel like it isn’t practical to say UGAAA should forego donations to encourage NIL even more than is already happening organically; we actually need both to go up. It would be nice if UGAAA could raise funds and use them for NIL as well as their other needs but that isn’t allowed under NCAA rules, plus it would create difficult/unresolvable Title IX issues so it’s a question of balance.
- on the fundraising side, UGAAA has been a fundraising behemoth since Kirby arrived (the two facts clearly are related, causally). We’ve set new annual records for six straight years and last year went over the $100M mark - that puts us in the top 3 in the SEC. We’ve gone from about 20 Silver Circle ($1M or more) donors to around 150, as one example.
- those funds, under NCAA rules, cannot be used for NIL; neither can the increasing TV money we receive. NIL donations generate neither UGAAA points nor a tax deduction, which are factors for some large donors (but it can be claimed as a business expense for those donors who own businesses).
- on the ‘pricing’ side, the studies cited in the thread can be misleading given that each school handles prices, donations and revenue generation differently and factoring in things like the ‘tickets for life’ policy at UGA: while it takes a significant contribution level to get “good seats” as a new season ticket holder, your seat is yours for life (plus your surviving spouses’s life), which means a LOT of the good seats at Sanford are filled with people who have had their seats for a long while and haven’t made massive contributions. That means those people who have recently make large contributions can’t necessarily move into those best seats - no matter how much you've given you can’t get a seat until someone gives it up. Same for parking.
- UGAAA has raised the per seat charge once in over 10 years. Once. How many businesses can afford to not raise prices on a regular basis? A 50 yard line seat in the lower bowl is less than $500, which is quite low given what UGAAA could get for it on the open market. Plus ticket prices have grown less than inflation and our suite prices are also very low relative to other places. Raising prices for tickets, parking, etc. would open things up for Magill donors but UGAAA has actively resisted doing that.
- how has UGAAA been able to do that? The answer basically is fundraising plus TV revenue increases. Venters like to complain about Magill but it’s an example of creative fundraising that’s driven higher revenue, which has allowed UGAAA to not raise prices (or even perhaps re-seat Sanford, which tOSU does with their stadium every five years, BTW). It seems to me that if/as NIL squeezes UGAAA fundraising the need for pricing will go up.
- FYI, the new Press Club premium seating area will be market priced; it will take over a million points to qualify to pay $7500 per seat (every year) to sit there. Compared to the rest of the stadium that’s obviously a LOT higher and represents a new $2M+ every year for an area that was non-revenue generating. That may be a sign that UGAAA is trending toward more pricing actions. (The two new suites being added will require a $10M donation, FYI.)
- some of the Vent suggestions to raise NIL money aren’t practical/legal but others are creative and good and we should do them. I wish our NIL effort was more creative in ways to generate revenue (the reality is that huge donors are always going to be critical but more grassroots efforts are helpful and powerful, too).
In the ‘my opinion’ category: I feel that Kirby’s incredible success has masked these underlying realities by letting UGAAA raise millions from donors and thereby allowed UGAAA not to have to press the “pricing” button. But as NIL needs to grow I think they’ll have no choice but to do so for us to remain competitive across all sports. And were our on-field football performance to drop I think we’d likely face immediate revenue issues and some very tough calls.
Also, like most Venters, I feel we’re headed toward a train wreck that will force change. I don’t think NIL has ‘ruined’ college football - I think unregulated NIL plus the ability to immediately transfer and play is ‘ruining’ it (which is down to horrific leadership and lack of a proactive vision by the NCAA/college presidents). Who knows when that happens, exactly, but unfortunately it’ll almost certainly be driven via litigation, which is unlikely to be a good thing (although that may finally force schools to change). There are some very dark clouds on the horizon and no clear answers - we are blessed to have Kirby but we need to realize that’s temporal and be building the foundation for a highly flexible, sustainable model.
Go Dawgs!"
-------
"This is offered in response to a recent suggestion to hear from a major donor about NIL/donations, etc. I’ve contributed several million dollars to the UGA Athletic Association (and the University of Georgia) and interact regularly on these issues with the AD, coaches, and other significant donors.
I realize the following is TLDR and a lot may be self-evident but it’s a complex thing to describe. With that, here are some observations in no particular order (I’ve tried to be as fact-based as possible):
- while our NIL fund is less than TAMU and TX, in the SEC, we are competitive with/better than everyone else. To date, when we’ve lost someone due largely to NIL it’s almost always been because Kirby felt the player wasn’t worth it and/or chose not to break his “salary structure”. But other programs are raising more and more NIL money (tOSU is a good example) and with prices rising we risk falling behind. The need to increase the level at UGA is real.
- the UGAAA administration is and has been actively encouraging donors to make NIL donations; they see on-field success as key to their fundraising and feel a rising tide will lift all boats, so they are encouraging and supporting, not squelching, NIL efforts with large donors.
- but that doesn’t mean there isn’t significant tension between money raised for the Athletic Association versus money raised for NIL. The UGAAA pays for +/-20 sports so coaches’ salaries, facility improvements, operating costs, payment for scholarships, etc. all fall on UGAAA and all are escalating (yes, UGAAA pays the university for each athletic scholarship).
- those costs are rising fast and if/as growing NIL emphasis restricts their revenue, the UGAAA has three options to cover them: cut costs, generate more donations or increase prices (or a combo). NIL definitely makes UGAAA fundraising harder; it’s not a zero sum game but there definitely is overlap/impact
- also, “donor fatigue” is real and donors feel like they’re being squeezed from all sides (and not just from football; every head coach for every sport at UGA is pushing donors for NIL money - I’ve been approached directly not only by Kirby but also by the head coaches for men’s and women’s basketball, baseball, golf and track for NIL donations). All in addition to the needs of UGAAA we are asked to support. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not asking for tears - I am blessed to be able to support UGA as I have - but the mounting requests are ratcheting up the pressure on large donors and affecting giving.
- I feel like it isn’t practical to say UGAAA should forego donations to encourage NIL even more than is already happening organically; we actually need both to go up. It would be nice if UGAAA could raise funds and use them for NIL as well as their other needs but that isn’t allowed under NCAA rules, plus it would create difficult/unresolvable Title IX issues so it’s a question of balance.
- on the fundraising side, UGAAA has been a fundraising behemoth since Kirby arrived (the two facts clearly are related, causally). We’ve set new annual records for six straight years and last year went over the $100M mark - that puts us in the top 3 in the SEC. We’ve gone from about 20 Silver Circle ($1M or more) donors to around 150, as one example.
- those funds, under NCAA rules, cannot be used for NIL; neither can the increasing TV money we receive. NIL donations generate neither UGAAA points nor a tax deduction, which are factors for some large donors (but it can be claimed as a business expense for those donors who own businesses).
- on the ‘pricing’ side, the studies cited in the thread can be misleading given that each school handles prices, donations and revenue generation differently and factoring in things like the ‘tickets for life’ policy at UGA: while it takes a significant contribution level to get “good seats” as a new season ticket holder, your seat is yours for life (plus your surviving spouses’s life), which means a LOT of the good seats at Sanford are filled with people who have had their seats for a long while and haven’t made massive contributions. That means those people who have recently make large contributions can’t necessarily move into those best seats - no matter how much you've given you can’t get a seat until someone gives it up. Same for parking.
- UGAAA has raised the per seat charge once in over 10 years. Once. How many businesses can afford to not raise prices on a regular basis? A 50 yard line seat in the lower bowl is less than $500, which is quite low given what UGAAA could get for it on the open market. Plus ticket prices have grown less than inflation and our suite prices are also very low relative to other places. Raising prices for tickets, parking, etc. would open things up for Magill donors but UGAAA has actively resisted doing that.
- how has UGAAA been able to do that? The answer basically is fundraising plus TV revenue increases. Venters like to complain about Magill but it’s an example of creative fundraising that’s driven higher revenue, which has allowed UGAAA to not raise prices (or even perhaps re-seat Sanford, which tOSU does with their stadium every five years, BTW). It seems to me that if/as NIL squeezes UGAAA fundraising the need for pricing will go up.
- FYI, the new Press Club premium seating area will be market priced; it will take over a million points to qualify to pay $7500 per seat (every year) to sit there. Compared to the rest of the stadium that’s obviously a LOT higher and represents a new $2M+ every year for an area that was non-revenue generating. That may be a sign that UGAAA is trending toward more pricing actions. (The two new suites being added will require a $10M donation, FYI.)
- some of the Vent suggestions to raise NIL money aren’t practical/legal but others are creative and good and we should do them. I wish our NIL effort was more creative in ways to generate revenue (the reality is that huge donors are always going to be critical but more grassroots efforts are helpful and powerful, too).
In the ‘my opinion’ category: I feel that Kirby’s incredible success has masked these underlying realities by letting UGAAA raise millions from donors and thereby allowed UGAAA not to have to press the “pricing” button. But as NIL needs to grow I think they’ll have no choice but to do so for us to remain competitive across all sports. And were our on-field football performance to drop I think we’d likely face immediate revenue issues and some very tough calls.
Also, like most Venters, I feel we’re headed toward a train wreck that will force change. I don’t think NIL has ‘ruined’ college football - I think unregulated NIL plus the ability to immediately transfer and play is ‘ruining’ it (which is down to horrific leadership and lack of a proactive vision by the NCAA/college presidents). Who knows when that happens, exactly, but unfortunately it’ll almost certainly be driven via litigation, which is unlikely to be a good thing (although that may finally force schools to change). There are some very dark clouds on the horizon and no clear answers - we are blessed to have Kirby but we need to realize that’s temporal and be building the foundation for a highly flexible, sustainable model.
Go Dawgs!"
First, you apparently don't believe that some other ACC have more NIL than Pitt. My guess is that isn't true. Miami, for one, has some donors.
Second, I don't see competing with ACC schools as the end game. If Pitt can't compete with anyone else, my interest diminishes.
But you aren’t donating a dime, either way
Something , something , woke, Dei, crt, etc
So…
we havent been competing with ohio state for 40 years. i liked the david boston return with 8 pitt players on the field.
This is really inciteful. Thanks for sharing. We always joke in the SEC it just means more. Football or athletics at Pitt is not the charter or mission statement of the school. Much to many of us chagrin. These schools gave 5, 10, 25 Chris Bickell's. To highlight the part of it just means more, Pitt is not a poor school. Pitt's endowment is larger than every SEC school except Vandy and Texas, Everyone. So many gifts were donated, just not to athletics.
This guy also agrees with me that this current model is not sustainable. When is it going to happen (or has it) that some NIL "collective" offers some kid or kids millions to throw a game?
I donate to Pitt Pharmacy every year
My donation to athletics is only as required for our club seats and parking .
I won’t give a dime to NIL.
I’m not some big donor like that guy- but I agree with the sentiment
I wonder if a collective could pay an opposing player to sit a game out.
I know that. I was referring to the majority of other P5 programs that can outspend us for the 3 stars. The top 5/10 are separate and we will never compete with them for players.
Where’s the money??
I’m todays NIL world siphoning $$$ for a stadium is about as asinine as you could get in terms of running an athletic department
On campus stadium and these uniforms will defeat any NIL fund.
Sure I do. Just like I want Tiger to compete and I want the Pens to compete. I don't donate to any of them.
Have said this many times. If Im Capel im donating back 1/2 million to buy players. Who cares it is an investment in keeping your 3 million dollar job. If Im Duzz doing the same. The guy has made 30 million from Pitt by now? He and his children and grand Children are set for life. I would be kicking in a few million if I am him. Yes I know it is illegal. In college sports, apparently nothing is illegal know.
You are setting yoursel up for failure with that. Directly buying sone players as a HC?
Have to go thru a middle man. You can’t be a HC and give a star player 500k to come to pitt. Kids talk.
Now pay quietly using a 3rd party? Ok.
Ya no shit bro… Thats what i mean. Are you thick or something… Set up a consultant some bullshit like that have him do a little work pay him insane money all legal like. He donates some back…
Exactly. Coaches can't donate directly to NIL or collectives, but there are ways to do it.
I'm the same way. College basketball payrolls are so small, I'd be paying my own money for players. Its an investment. If he is able to have a couple really good seasons, maybe he gets an extension. Also, I dont think its illegal for coaches to donate to a collective. And even if it was? Would it be illegal for his wife, his mom? Like there's no way the NCAA gives a crap about this.
YA said it in many threads. Who cares take 8/9 k out of the bank every week. Have your mom donates it to the NIL, your brother , your kids, whomever. Just pay them back. At this point just have a middle man to a middle man give it to the players. Or go buy 5 cars from some dealership over sticker with the understanding they are gonna do an NIL for a few of your players.
"Where's the money?" That is not my job, that's Heather Lyjr's issue.. Trust me, the money is there if she wanted to find it. She just spent spent around #300 million on Victory Heights and God knows how much more was spent on the Petersen Sports Complex, Charles Cost Field, Ambrose Urbanic Field and Vartabedian Field. Yes, those other fields and buildings did get outside money from donors and I am quite sure that she could find donors who would be willing to contribute to the building of a new football stadium as well. It CAN be done if she chooses to do so.
Outside of the Big 12....You start looking across the P5 football conferences...
SEC: 3 basketball teams ranked right now. (I contend the SEC's attention to hoops has directly impacted the ACC).
ACC: 2 teams (and none particularly close on "others receiving votes)
Pac 12: 1 team
Big 10: 3 teams
Big 12: 7 teams!! And 2 just outside of the ORV list.
The Big East is down with only 3 teams and Seton Hall ranked "26th".
The Mountain West has 3 teams and SD State is basically 27th.
I don't know what the hell has gone on with the Big 12. But with many of these non football conferences, especially some schools with $$ alums, they can throw NIL strictly towards basketball.
On that note....who would have thought 10 years ago that these following teams would be at the bottom of their conferences or at .500 or below.
Georgetown
Xavier
Louisville
WVU
Michigan
USC
UCLA
Arkansas
Weird.....I do contend there seems to be a yin/yang thing between football and basketball and some programs when they really focus on football, basketball suffers. It is not a 1:1 ratio, but there is some correlation.
