This time... the loss *IS* on Jamie
- Thread starter UPitt '89
- Start date
Yeah. But I am talking more about higher % shots. Robinsons miss tonight was a crucial and well inside the arc. I understand it was just one shot. But it's what we've come to expect from him. I love the kid, but we need better from a player who has started more games than anyone in the history of the program.
James Robinson is the only reason this team is even relevant right now. If he misses that step back 3 vs Wake, we aren't paying attention to pitt basketball right now.
He doesn't have a high ceiling as a player but at least he tries. At least he gives effort on defense. And after he missed that shot today, he hit his next shot. I won't kill him for missing a jump shot. He's playing 40mpg now, he's giving it his all. Others on the team are not.
I swear it's true. I was laughing out loud when I read it. It was a few games into cupcake season. I just don't remember who was writing it. It got some agrees too lol.
Young is probably 6-8 in shoes. If you compare his athleticism to UNC's front line, then it is average. He is more than likely off to Europe once his college career is over.
I care about things that matter most.
We gave up 50.9% from the field.
Louisville made 7 of their last 9 three pointers.
We had only 11 assists and 15 turnovers.
We missed 14 threes.
I think you are right. I am pretty sure a couple folks said that. James is a great representative and ambassador for our program and school. But he's obviously not an NBA player. But then again, the big argument here was James vs TJ. We all felt James was better. And look at TJ today!
Remember the big thread 3 years ago that people would rather have James over Levance?? That was most shocking.
Look.....
It is too late in their development for Jamie to make Mike Young or Jamel Artis smarter.
Their maddening, stupid, ridiculous, continuous turnovers.... Artis by being careless with the ball... Young by thinking he can take ANYONE off the dribble... are killing this team.
Young was -11 tonight.
Artis was -9.
Luther was +9.
The one thing Jamie *CAN* do.... is recognize when a player (Young) is hurting a team on a particular evening and sit his ass down and keep him there. The other thing he can do is recognize when he has a player (Luther) who is having his best game as a college player and ride him for as long as he possibly can.
With the score 40-37 Louisville, Jamie pulled Mike Young and inserted Ryan Luther. Pitt went on a 11-0 run and the Pete was throbbing. Pitino called timeout to stop the bleeding with Pitt up 48-40. It was a full TV timeout and gave every player an ample opportunity for a blow.
Jamie, who should've recognized the games that Young and Luther were having, and should've known in that moment that he had Louisville on the ropes and should not have changed ANYTHING about the lineup that was in.... inexplicably pulled Luther and put Young in.
The next three Pitt possessions were turnovers by Artis and Young and a missed hook shot by Young. The next three Louisville possessions were baskets, one of them Onuaku dunking after driving right past Young.
The score was now 48-48... the momentum was completely lost, and Pitt couldn't find a way to get it back.
Every game has a fulcrum.... a point where the outcome is basically determined by a single moment or moments. Sometimes it is a missed opportunity to extend a lead. Sometimes it is a key turnover at the worst possible time. Sometimes, it is early in the game, but most of the time it is late.
Tonight... that moment was with the score 48-40 and Pitino calling a panic timeout to settle things down and the Pete absolutely throbbing. And that moment was Jamie Dixon making a horrible substitution decision.
It is too late in their development for Jamie to make Mike Young or Jamel Artis smarter.
Their maddening, stupid, ridiculous, continuous turnovers.... Artis by being careless with the ball... Young by thinking he can take ANYONE off the dribble... are killing this team.
Young was -11 tonight.
Artis was -9.
Luther was +9.
The one thing Jamie *CAN* do.... is recognize when a player (Young) is hurting a team on a particular evening and sit his ass down and keep him there. The other thing he can do is recognize when he has a player (Luther) who is having his best game as a college player and ride him for as long as he possibly can.
With the score 40-37 Louisville, Jamie pulled Mike Young and inserted Ryan Luther. Pitt went on a 11-0 run and the Pete was throbbing. Pitino called timeout to stop the bleeding with Pitt up 48-40. It was a full TV timeout and gave every player an ample opportunity for a blow.
Jamie, who should've recognized the games that Young and Luther were having, and should've known in that moment that he had Louisville on the ropes and should not have changed ANYTHING about the lineup that was in.... inexplicably pulled Luther and put Young in.
The next three Pitt possessions were turnovers by Artis and Young and a missed hook shot by Young. The next three Louisville possessions were baskets, one of them Onuaku dunking after driving right past Young.
The score was now 48-48... the momentum was completely lost, and Pitt couldn't find a way to get it back.
Every game has a fulcrum.... a point where the outcome is basically determined by a single moment or moments. Sometimes it is a missed opportunity to extend a lead. Sometimes it is a key turnover at the worst possible time. Sometimes, it is early in the game, but most of the time it is late.
Tonight... that moment was with the score 48-40 and Pitino calling a panic timeout to settle things down and the Pete absolutely throbbing. And that moment was Jamie Dixon making a horrible substitution decision.
The only thing I will say to defend Jamie a little bit, is that Luther looked so tired I thought he was gonna puke. I have no idea if this is true, but maybe he needed to come out. I don't know that, might not be true, but Jamie is a smart coach and he has rode hot hands off the bench before.
I don't know
I can't remember when in the game it was, but Luther had stopped one of the L'Ville bigs underneath, came down and scored (might have been the tip in off the Artis miss?) and on the way back down the court before the L'Ville TO, the L'Ville big "set" a screen and laid into Luther. Luther shrugged it off, but it showed the frustration that Luther was causing the L'Ville bigs. When we had the 8 point lead, Luther had to stay in. He was balling out tonight, and I think he could have rode some adrenaline till the next substitution. But maybe Whirlybird's suggestion is right, and Jamie thought he was flat-out gassed?
@UPITT89 - agreed on the MY and Artis turnovers. Seemed like most of the times that they tried to dribble through the paint they turned the ball over.
If I was Jamie I might try to minimize the time Artis and Young spend on the court together. Luther needs more minutes, so maybe at the 3-4-5 try Johnson-Luther-Young or Jeter-Artis-Luther? Unfortunate timing for the team to try this as they have Duke next, but on the flip side it is nice to see that Luther is continuing to develop under Dixon.
@UPITT89 - agreed on the MY and Artis turnovers. Seemed like most of the times that they tried to dribble through the paint they turned the ball over.
If I was Jamie I might try to minimize the time Artis and Young spend on the court together. Luther needs more minutes, so maybe at the 3-4-5 try Johnson-Luther-Young or Jeter-Artis-Luther? Unfortunate timing for the team to try this as they have Duke next, but on the flip side it is nice to see that Luther is continuing to develop under Dixon.
Entering today's game, Pitt was #204 in the country in three point defense.
Just sayin.
Just sayin.
Actually there were many people saying that Young and Artis were definite NBA players, and that Robinson could play in the league as well. Someone mentioned that Young was the best forward in the country and I was goIng to inquire if they really thought he was better than Simmons and Niang, but the opinion of Young was so sky high at the time and I didn't feel like being called an idiot by 25 people.
You'd think with 3 future NBA'ers in the starting lineup they'd be hard pressed to ever lose a game.
Then you should have no problem remembering who said it, and call them out.
Hint , it was never said .
Mike Young has an NBA body... NBA hops... and NBA athleticism.
But he has peewee league smarts.... peewee league guts... and is selfish.
Mike Young's body... with Brandin Knight's brain, guts, and selflessness... would be an all-American and a lottery pick.
I disagree entirely on young 's hops... He is a slow leaped, not bouncy, and plays below the rim.
It's why he struggles against size in the post.
It's why he struggles against size in the post.
Which is exactly why every time a good team gets momentum in a game they go on to win by 30 or 40 points. You just simply cannot wrest momentum away from a good team, no matter what.
I mean some people watch basketball and think that momentum changes frequently during the course of a game. Numerous times every half even. But no. They are wrong. When a good team gets momentum you just cannot stop them from that point on. Clearly.
In fact you saw a perfect example of that tonight. Pitt had a 9-2 lead (you might think that's momentum, but clearly not) and then Louisville went on a 12-1 run. They had all the momentum in the world. At that point the game was obviously over and everyone went home. No sense sticking around for the last 32 minutes. A good team had momentum and the game was over. There is a rumor that Pitt went on an 11-0 run later on in the game, but obviously that didn't happen. Because once Louisville got momentum how on earth was Pitt ever going to get back into the game? I think that 11-0 run was a fairy tale that someone came up with knowing that since everyone went home after Louisville's momentum grabbing 12-1 run no one would ever know the difference.
Momentum. The most overrated phenomena in sports. It's completely overwhelming, right up until the second that it isn't. A second that is completely unpredictable and unknowable as to when it's going to come.
It was definitely said. I remember looking at a magazine to see who the two preseason all American forwards were. No desire to make stuff up just to stir the pot.
People react way too strongly (positively or negatively) to the talent or lack thereof concerning players on the team they root for. It's no different than baseball fans wanting to trade their junk for other teams treasures and believing it's a fair deal.
There are a lot of guys out there with similar talents to Young and Artis. The guys that will make the league are for the most part just better all around players than them. Even at their peak this year neither were anything more than borderline 2nd rounders. If either of them left early they would have been the recipient of horrible,'horrible advice.
It's not even just the momentum.
It was a lineup that was working. 8 straight empty possessions for Louisville. We were defending and rebounding.
Mike Young was having an awful, awful, awful game. In baseball, when your best pitcher is getting hammered, you take him out. In football, when your QB has thrown 4 picks and is off target all game, you take him out.
Mike Young, by that point in the game, had made it perfectly clear that he was a liability in this game, on this night. If there wasn't a capable replacement who was playing well, maybe you put him back in.
Pitt blew a 37-35 lead because of a 5-0 Louisville run that was almost exclusively Mike Young's fault. Two ill advised shots and two turnovers and matador defense. Jamie, smartly, removed Young from the game at that point. Pitt then went on an 11-0 run with Young on the bench.
Given the game that Young was having... and given the data points above... i.e. team sucked when Young was in, team played well when Young was out... there is no logical reason to bring Young back into the game there. None.
Even if you completely disregard the concept of momentum.... the simple fact of pulling a player who is playing well and replacing him with a player who is playing awfully - especially following a 3-minute TV timeout which would alleviate the fatigue that any players on the court were feeling - cannot be defended.
Sure, discount the idea of "momentum". But simply play the players who can best accomplish the goal at a particular moment. Mike Young was NOT one of those players at THAT moment.
He might be the best player on the court on Sunday, and if he is.... by all means, ride him.
But tonight, he should've watched the final 8 minutes from the bench.
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So far the closest I've found is a thread from 12/20 titled " Folks, Mike Young is an All American"
UPitt89 - "In running for ACC POY"
SoufOaklin4Life - "Haven't seen a player that dominant since Sam Young and Blair"
Delpanther - "About time we start talking about him as one of the best whoever played for the Panthers"
Well del is known for his exuberant optimism.
Of course he went for 22 points on 14 shots that day..so yeah , I'll stand by my comment that day.
He did completely dominate that game.
I stand by it. Mike Young has the natural ability to be that player.
That's part of the reason I'm so disappointed in him.
Not ripping you for it at all. I remember thinking Brad Wannamaker had a legitimate shot to be a Paul Pressey type point forward in the NBA, was a little off on that one. I just never thought as highly about Mike Young being an NBA player as much as a lot of you guys. I guess it was the thread title that stuck with me. We all watch a ton of basketball and I've just never seen Young as being near one of the top 5 forwards in the country.
My only point on the Young and Artis comments is that so many people rush to judgement after one bad game or one good game. At the time the NBA comments were made, it was a rash statement made after a great game early in the season. It was profound enough to me that I ran to draft express to see what I was missing. Neither player was in the top 100 players on their draft board.
Not just this. They made some open three's down the stretch, we didn't. The Adel dunk and the general discomfort L'ville was giving us defensively in the paint was indicative of the better athletes on their side.
On the whole, we did a lot of good things. We just didn't hit some open shots. And we missed some of their guys for wide open shots which they didn't miss. I still think the past two games we looked more like Pitt than we have in a few years.
And a positive I am taking from this game is Ryan Luther is going to be a real good player for us. I am not saying he could be another Troy Murphy, but he is in that style.
Luther was completely exhausted. I sat next to his family and they all said he looked like he needed a rest for a few minutes. It was pretty evident when he came off the court.
MY is not even close to having NBA athleticism and skills Hes not a power guy even at the college level and he sure as hell isnt a wing at the NBA level.............never understood the NBA talk with respect to MY.
Is your answer to bench your best player or put him in and try to get him to play like he can play? Young played better in the last couple of minutes than he had earlier in the game.
