Tweet about Pickett/young QBs

[Sean Miller Fan]

Dont know if Sam Block is anyone important but I agree with this tweet:

Geno was "done." Then a legit QB1.
Baker was "done". Then a legit QB1.
Darnold was "done." Then a legit QB1.

These guys can be that in 2025
Justin Fields
Daniel Jones
Kenny Pickett
Trey Lance
Zach Wilson
Jameis Winston
Marcus Marriota

Now me.

The problem with 1st Round QB's is they have to be really good right away. Maybe there's some leniency in Year 1. But by Year 2, if they dont show franchise potential, teams move on. Most QB's take time. Its a very hard position. There are some QBs who are very good right away and NFL teams feel if their 1st Rounder isnt a Pro Bowl type right away, jts a wasted pick and time to move on.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Funny, I was just about to make a post about the updated version of the most tired topics on this board and see if the consensus was that Kenny is now #1, haha.

But this guy's post sucks. Winston and Mariota?! Two 31-year-olds who have had ample opportunities? I don't think so.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Funny, I was just about to make a post about the updated version of the most tired topics on this board and see if the consensus was that Kenny is now #1, haha.

But this guy's post sucks. Winston and Mariota?! Two 31-year-olds who have had ample opportunities? I don't think so.

Yeah the window on Winston and Mariota is likely closed.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Yeah the window on Winston and Mariota is likely closed.

And, seeing as the Lord never really delivered Winston from pick-sixes, likely boarded shut in a Night of the Living Dead-esque fashion.

 

[BillyWestFan]

Some of those guys on that list could become serviceable in the mold of Vinny Testaverde, Steve DeBerg, or Steve Bono who were more or less journeymen who won some playoffs games and a super bowl. I know different era , but still possible.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Funny, I was just about to make a post about the updated version of the most tired topics on this board and see if the consensus was that Kenny is now #1, haha.

But this guy's post sucks. Winston and Mariota?! Two 31-year-olds who have had ample opportunities? I don't think so.

Agree on Winston and Marriota but I do think that young, 2nd chance 1st Rounders are a good investment.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Some of those guys on that list could become serviceable in the mold of Vinny Testaverde, Steve DeBerg, or Steve Bono who were more or less journeymen who won some playoffs games and a super bowl. I know different era , but still possible.

Brad Johnson vs Rich Gannon in the Super Bowl was a reclamation project fan's delight. Not sure if we'll see that again any time soon with Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrow, Daniels, etc. in the league.

 

[BillyWestFan]

Brad Johnson vs Rich Gannon in the Super Bowl was a reclamation project fan's delight. Not sure if we'll see that again any time soon with Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrow, Daniels, etc. in the league.

Brad Johnson is who I was thinking of not Steve Bono. Bono won a Super Bowl as a back-up.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Geno was "done." Then a legit QB1.
Baker was "done". Then a legit QB1.
Darnold was "done." Then a legit QB1.

What is a legit "QB1?" A starter? A franchise QB?

To me QB1 typically just means a starter. It doesn't matter how good/bad they are, just that they start.

None of those QB's imo will ever be the catalyst for a Super Bowl winning team. They all need to be in specific situations that hides their ineptitudes and highlight they're limited strengths.

 

[Pitt2009]

Rule #1. Don’t get drafted by the Jets.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What is a legit "QB1?" A starter? A franchise QB?

To me QB1 typically just means a starter. It doesn't matter how good/bad they are, just that they start.

None of those QB's imo will ever be the catalyst for a Super Bowl winning team. They all need to be in specific situations that hides their ineptitudes and highlight they're limited strengths.

Above average.

Above average is good enough. There's only going to be a handful of franchise QB's.

 

[CJsE]

Now me.

The problem with 1st Round QB's is they have to be really good right away. Maybe there's some leniency in Year 1. But by Year 2, if they dont show franchise potential, teams move on. Most QB's take time. Its a very hard position. There are some QBs who are very good right away and NFL teams feel if their 1st Rounder isnt a Pro Bowl type right away, jts a wasted pick and time to move on.

Most QBs take time? Which decade of NFL football are we talking about?

Most of the starting QBs in the NFL were putting up solid stats in their freshman or sophomore seasons. Hell, most of them probably won at least one award or Pro Bowl by the end of their 3rd season.

 

[bobfree]

I still think in right situation Mariota could be above average. He's very accurate

 

[noelr]

I still think in right situation Mariota could be above average. He's very accurate

he was awful in atlanta; terrible with accuracy and reads. good legs. that's it.

 

[boseman7]

Scheme + coaching + work ethic means everything.

 

[bobfree]

he was awful in atlanta; terrible with accuracy and reads. good legs. that's it.

He wasn't good in Atlanta I agree. I still think he can be good in the nfl. Qb play under Arthur Smith has never been great.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Brad Johnson vs Rich Gannon in the Super Bowl was a reclamation project fan's delight. Not sure if we'll see that again any time soon with Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrow, Daniels, etc. in the league.

I think perhaps the biggest redemption/reclamation QB aside from Gannon was Jim Plunkett.

 

[pittdan77]

I know there will be an obsession with making Justin Fields look like an emerging all-pro from now until September by feeding garbage to the lackeys but I would prefer the Steelers spend their time actually doing some work to rebuild the offense.

 

[CJsE]

I think perhaps the biggest redemption/reclamation QB aside from Gannon was Jim Plunkett.

I'm going to have to say Steve Young. 1st overall pick by Tampa Bay in the supplemental draft (3 picks ahead of Reggie White), 3-16 as starter his first two seasons, traded to SF to back up Montana for a 2nd and 4th round pick after Tampa drafted Vinny Testaverde, then sat the bench for most of 5 seasons.

Average over first 6 seasons.
77-138 , 983 Yards , 6 TDs , 5 INTs

Average from age 31-37
283-423 , 3467 Yards, 25 TDs , 10 INTs , 2x MVP , 3x 1st Team All-Pro , 7x Pro Bowl , 1x Super Bowl MVP

 

[FreeportPanther]

I think perhaps the biggest redemption/reclamation QB aside from Gannon was Jim Plunkett.

Kurt Warner anyone?? He was bagging groceries after he initially got released.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

I'm going to have to say Steve Young. 1st overall pick by Tampa Bay in the supplemental draft (3 picks ahead of Reggie White), 3-16 as starter his first two seasons, traded to SF to back up Montana for a 2nd and 4th round pick after Tampa drafted Vinny Testaverde, then sat the bench for most of 5 seasons.

Average over first 6 seasons.
77-138 , 983 Yards , 6 TDs , 5 INTs

Average from age 31-37
283-423 , 3467 Yards, 25 TDs , 10 INTs , 2x MVP , 3x 1st Team All-Pro , 7x Pro Bowl , 1x Super Bowl MVP

OK. Good one.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Kurt Warner anyone?? He was bagging groceries after he initially got released.

Also a good one! LOL But I was looking at someone who was a failed or "meh" starter as was Plunkett with the Patriots. Warner and Young never really failed as a starter, of course Warner completely failed out of the league so yeah he wins.

 

[CJsE]

Also a good one! LOL But I was looking at someone who was a failed or "meh" starter as was Plunkett with the Patriots. Warner and Young never really failed as a starter, of course Warner completely failed out of the league so yeah he wins.

But Young absolutely failed as a starter. He started 19 games in his first two seasons and went 3-16 with Tampa. He failed so bad they drafted Vinny Testaverde with the first overall pick they received because Young failed so hard as a starter.

 

[Pitt2009]

Alex Smith went from bust with SF to a 3-time Pro Bowler with KC.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Also a good one! LOL But I was looking at someone who was a failed or "meh" starter as was Plunkett with the Patriots. Warner and Young never really failed as a starter, of course Warner completely failed out of the league so yeah he wins.

Yeah, I thought of Warner but wasn't sure if he counted because he pretty much succeeded as soon as het go a chance in the NFL.

Tommy Maddox is another, I guess, but he really didn't do a ton for the Steelers. 15-16-1... meh.

 

[noelr]

He wasn't good in Atlanta I agree. I still think he can be good in the nfl. Qb play under Arthur Smith has never been great.

i just don't think he can accurately pass and make reads. he's a backup.

 

[mas1021]

Dont know if Sam Block is anyone important but I agree with this tweet:

Geno was "done." Then a legit QB1.
Baker was "done". Then a legit QB1.
Darnold was "done." Then a legit QB1.

These guys can be that in 2025
Justin Fields
Daniel Jones
Kenny Pickett
Trey Lance
Zach Wilson
Jameis Winston
Marcus Marriota

Now me.

The problem with 1st Round QB's is they have to be really good right away. Maybe there's some leniency in Year 1. But by Year 2, if they dont show franchise potential, teams move on. Most QB's take time. Its a very hard position. There are some QBs who are very good right away and NFL teams feel if their 1st Rounder isnt a Pro Bowl type right away, jts a wasted pick and time to move on.

Our old friend Max Browne did a video on this. Now a days young QBs have the teams on their shoulders right after being drafted. Mostly by bad teams. Back in the day a QB would sit for a few years before they were handed the reins. The new age is really hurting the development of these players.

 

[boseman7]

These guys run a gimmick Air raid offense or spread type all thru high school and college then when they get to the NFL instead of loooking to the sidelines for audibles and calls they have to learn to make those calls and adjustments. Most of those guys have never lined up under center, don’t have proper footwork from behind center to run play action or the 3,5, or 7 step drop. Then they have to read coverages they’ve never seen before along with guys not being wide open. I’m sympathetic because i know how these kids are coached ( or not coached ) all thru high school and college but the fact that people don’t realize the adjustments needed from year to year by coaches is astronomical at the NFL level and it only works if the basic structure of your offense works. I know that it doesn’t matter who the Steelers draft has a quarterback if their offensive structure is not basically fundamentally sound they’re not going to work out. And this is why I’ve always believe that you’ve gotta bring young guys into a system where they see a guy who’s able to execute the same offense that he’s gonna run. And you’ve got to make sure that it is a long-term scheme, not a short-term gimmick.

 

[NCanton Panther]

I'm going to have to say Steve Young. 1st overall pick by Tampa Bay in the supplemental draft (3 picks ahead of Reggie White), 3-16 as starter his first two seasons, traded to SF to back up Montana for a 2nd and 4th round pick after Tampa drafted Vinny Testaverde, then sat the bench for most of 5 seasons.

Average over first 6 seasons.
77-138 , 983 Yards , 6 TDs , 5 INTs

Average from age 31-37
283-423 , 3467 Yards, 25 TDs , 10 INTs , 2x MVP , 3x 1st Team All-Pro , 7x Pro Bowl , 1x Super Bowl MVP

Not a reclamation oroject but wasn’t Kurt Warner plucked away from his supermarket job if I’m remembering correctly. Or was that all some gross exaggeration.

Edit: sorry, I didn’t read down further in the thread before making my post to see Warner was already mentioned.

 

[PantherHOG1]

This is a few months back but pretty funny:

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

These guys run a gimmick Air raid offense or spread type all thru high school and college then when they get to the NFL instead of loooking to the sidelines for audibles and calls they have to learn to make those calls and adjustments. Most of those guys have never lined up under center, don’t have proper footwork from behind center to run play action or the 3,5, or 7 step drop. Then they have to read coverages they’ve never seen before along with guys not being wide open. I’m sympathetic because i know how these kids are coached ( or not coached ) all thru high school and college but the fact that people don’t realize the adjustments needed from year to year by coaches is astronomical at the NFL level and it only works if the basic structure of your offense works. I know that it doesn’t matter who the Steelers draft has a quarterback if their offensive structure is not basically fundamentally sound they’re not going to work out. And this is why I’ve always believe that you’ve gotta bring young guys into a system where they see a guy who’s able to execute the same offense that he’s gonna run. And you’ve got to make sure that it is a long-term scheme, not a short-term gimmick.

I gather defenses and then subsequently offenses have become much more complicated and QB oriented. But it still amazes me that these QB's now, have been programmed since they were 10-11 years old. Special camps. Special coaches. 7 on 7's. QB centric offenses. More special camps. Colleges run wide open offenses, then these guys get to the pros and half the time it is deer in the headlights looks for them.

Back in the day. They ran conventional pro offenses, 2 Wide, TE, HB/FB, in HS threw maybe 10 passes a game, in college 20-23 times a game, no special camps and coaches, play BB in the winter, baseball in the spring, get to the pros and maybe sit for 2 years, then go in and primarily call their own plays to much success even a "genius" like Bradshaw.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Also a good one! LOL But I was looking at someone who was a failed or "meh" starter as was Plunkett with the Patriots. Warner and Young never really failed as a starter, of course Warner completely failed out of the league so yeah he wins.

How about Phil Simms. He was the #7 pick in 1979. Was 14-20 his first three years with 39TDs and 42 Ints. Was benched in Parcells first year there in 1983 and asked to be traded. Barely played and when he did, got hurt. Was pretty close to done with the Giants until he got his sh!t together in 84.

 

[SteelBowl70]

Dont know if Sam Block is anyone important but I agree with this tweet:

Geno was "done." Then a legit QB1.
Baker was "done". Then a legit QB1.
Darnold was "done." Then a legit QB1.

These guys can be that in 2025
Justin Fields
Daniel Jones
Kenny Pickett
Trey Lance
Zach Wilson
Jameis Winston
Marcus Marriota

Now me.

The problem with 1st Round QB's is they have to be really good right away. Maybe there's some leniency in Year 1. But by Year 2, if they dont show franchise potential, teams move on. Most QB's take time. Its a very hard position. There are some QBs who are very good right away and NFL teams feel if their 1st Rounder isnt a Pro Bowl type right away, jts a wasted pick and time to move on.

I heard one NFL analyst say that teams let down young QBs much more than young QBs let down teams. That resonates with me. Kenny was 13-6 in his last 19 starts in Pittsburgh and Wilson was 6-6. Fields was 4-2 and got benched.

 

[CJsE]

Not a reclamation oroject but wasn’t Kurt Warner plucked away from his supermarket job if I’m remembering correctly. Or was that all some gross exaggeration.

Edit: sorry, I didn’t read down further in the thread before making my post to see Warner was already mentioned.

Yeah, and it's yes an no on that. I think he was on a practice squad for a year or two, then went and played in the Arena Football League and tore it up for a few years. Then the Bears called him for a try out and he scheduled it, then he cancelled the tryout for his wedding. Then they scheduled another tryout, which he then cancelled to go on a honeymoon. Then they scheduled a third tryout, which he then cancelled because he got bit by a spider. So the Bears told him to f*** off. Then the radioactive spider venom kicked in and he signed with the Rams.

 

[boseman7]

I gather defenses and then subsequently offenses have become much more complicated and QB oriented. But it still amazes me that these QB's now, have been programmed since they were 10-11 years old. Special camps. Special coaches. 7 on 7's. QB centric offenses. More special camps. Colleges run wide open offenses, then these guys get to the pros and half the time it is deer in the headlights looks for them.

Back in the day. They ran conventional pro offenses, 2 Wide, TE, HB/FB, in HS threw maybe 10 passes a game, in college 20-23 times a game, no special camps and coaches, play BB in the winter, baseball in the spring, get to the pros and maybe sit for 2 years, then go in and primarily call their own plays to much success even a "genius" like Bradshaw.

Seven on seven do not prepare you to play quarterback in a real game. One of the most elementary things about football is being able to recognize front and playing 7 on 7 doesn’t allow you to see that. Has a quarterback you have to know how to make sure that your line is always in position to get you the protections that you want and need and also you have to know how a team is going to blitz based on the offensive line formations that you have set up. Then you as a quarterback, then can understand where to go with the football when there is a blitz and how to throw at the blitz and how to know when there’s going to be open field when you see a certain coverage. Are you learn to be able to throw the ball to spots on the field that are in soft zones And that is more of the NFL game. There are a lot of quarterbacks who look like the second coming of Peyton Manning when they’re playing in a seven on seven setting. But when it comes to them playing real football with defensive fronts and coordinators who can disguise coverages, they can’t do it. It also doesn’t teach receivers how to adjust their routes based on fronts because if you know that a blitz is coming, you’ve gotta change your route. and it messes up the skill position players because they get a false sense of security because they only learn how to play the game in one aspect. so as a quarterbacks coach, I say that is one of the worst things to happen to kids today.