Vader's Part 2 Player Thoughts on Next Years Team

[Vader_Storm]

Starting off with the close to this past season


Last 10 games of this season

Champ

14.7ppg

6.4 boards per game

43% FG percentage

27% 3 point percentage


Toney

11 ppg

4.2 boards per game

45% FG percentage

37% 3 point percentage


X

10.9ppg

34% FG percentage

27% 3 point

4.4 assist per game

3.1 turnovers per game


Horton

13.8ppg

41% FG percentage

40% 3 point percentage (2.7 made 3’s per game)

1.5 assist per game

1.5 turnover per game



Using this years team, the Pitt trio above averaged 36.6 points per game the last 10 games of the season. Our entire team averaged 62 points per game during this stretch, meaning, the rest of our entire team averaged 25 points per game. Most of the rest of our team was painfully bad the last 10 games not contributing any offense at all.


I had highlighted already just how poorly Murphy was after his concussion and how Mcgowens play really fell. No team can survive with that low of production outside 3 players unless you have a Lebron James type picking up the slack.


This further highlights just how good Champ and Toney were to close the season. It also highlights that if Horton averages 2.7 made 3’s per contest or anything close to that, our entire offense and spacing is going to be far better next year. (Mcgowens made less than 1 made 3 pointer per game).


If you are asking yourself why I used the last 10 games of the season, the answer is this. Pitt as a team collapsed the last 10 games of the season. And I wanted to see how Horton was performing at the end of his first season at Delaware, which, turned out to be fairly good with the high volume of 3’s made.


This also indicates that this trio of Pitt players held it together the last 10 games while at best every other player on the roster only chipped in with spurts on offense. It is reasonable to conclude that Pitt “should” have a very solid nucleus of 4 solid starters next year.


I would also like to add on a few things. Justin Champagnie had a minimum 120+ ORTG offensive rating in 12 different games this season. So, it just wasn’t a couple times he hit 120+ already. He averaged 120+ for over 1/3 of the entire full season. Toney hit 120+ in 13 different games. This concludes that these 2 players, as I previously had said, played at an extremely high efficiency level for over 1/3 of the full season. Both are more than capable to improve and I would strongly argue that these 2 players were by far the most valuable players on the entire Pitt team this past season for what they brought to the table. In the last 10 games of the season it wasn’t even close.


I would also touch on Karim Coulibaly here. In AKC’s last 10 games, he was able to hit 100+ in ORTG offensive rating 4 times. 4 other games he failed to hit it, and the other 2 games he played 1 minute which isn’t enough playing time to warrant a useful ranking. In the last 10 games of the season, AKC gave us 4 points per game, 2.5 boards per game and averaged a paltry 7.8 minutes per game. This was a freshman that was giving us over .5 points per minute under the table which no one here even mentioned!


AKC was actually quite productive here when you “dig in” to the numbers. Ironically, in 4 of those games AKC scored 6+ points. AKC shot 50% from the floor during this time. As was previously mentioned / argued, he didn’t get enough playing time and had he received more time, he would have been further ahead in his development. I had previously said AKC could challenge for a 100+ ORTG offensive rating next year. I didn’t come to that conclusion with some wild guess. I saw more post moves / potential impact action from AKC in limited minutes than what I have on tape from Brown in 3 years. A simple stop at youtube will show you exactly what Im talking about against a zone or man defense. AKC has a larger role in the offense next year. At worst, AKC should be a solid “role” player next year that helps fill in the gaps.


As I previously mentioned, we need 8 solid players (100+ ORTG close to or better )in the rotation and some improvement / better decision making from X. This isn’t a giant leap of faith here. I am showing you the reasons why.


Which brings us to the recruiting class. Each individual person may make their own conclusion / expectation on each individual recruit. But Im going to say something blunt here. When you have a Top 15 caliber recruiting class in the Nation (with Jeffress), you should expect to get player impact as freshmen. It should be expected.

With that said I also want to clarify that I don’t think someone like Hugley is going to have anywhere near the freshmen impact Blair did. All along I made the comparison to Chevy. Chevy Troutman’s adjusted stats for 20 minutes per game as a freshmen, around what I expect for Big John.

8.1ppg

5.4rpg

.78 assist per game


These numbers as a freshmen are attainable, and if used correctly in the offense Big John could / should easily beat the assist number. Even if the PPG isn’t as high, that is ok. Those numbers with a ORTG of 100+ is a huge lift in the post. Terrell brown played 18.3 minutes per game and averaged 3.5 boards per game for the season so you can see the rebound impact here too.


That leaves the final 2 players of Odukale and Jeffress to fill the gaps in my “early” 9 man rotation and I really like what both can add to the team to help fill those gaps. Getting any potential / significant contributions from Collier / Amadasun / anyone else is also a welcome addition and bonus. But I like what we have to work with the 9 players mentioned.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Starting off with the close to this past season


Last 10 games of this season

Champ

14.7ppg

6.4 boards per game

43% FG percentage

27% 3 point percentage


Toney

11 ppg

4.2 boards per game

45% FG percentage

37% 3 point percentage


X

10.9ppg

34% FG percentage

27% 3 point

4.4 assist per game

3.1 turnovers per game


Horton

13.8ppg

41% FG percentage

40% 3 point percentage (2.7 made 3’s per game)

1.5 assist per game

1.5 turnover per game



Using this years team, the Pitt trio above averaged 36.6 points per game the last 10 games of the season. Our entire team averaged 62 points per game during this stretch, meaning, the rest of our entire team averaged 25 points per game. Most of the rest of our team was painfully bad the last 10 games not contributing any offense at all.


I had highlighted already just how poorly Murphy was after his concussion and how Mcgowens play really fell. No team can survive with that low of production outside 3 players unless you have a Lebron James type picking up the slack.


This further highlights just how good Champ and Toney were to close the season. It also highlights that if Horton averages 2.7 made 3’s per contest or anything close to that, our entire offense and spacing is going to be far better next year. (Mcgowens made less than 1 made 3 pointer per game).


If you are asking yourself why I used the last 10 games of the season, the answer is this. Pitt as a team collapsed the last 10 games of the season. And I wanted to see how Horton was performing at the end of his first season at Delaware, which, turned out to be fairly good with the high volume of 3’s made.


This also indicates that this trio of Pitt players held it together the last 10 games while at best every other player on the roster only chipped in with spurts on offense. It is reasonable to conclude that Pitt “should” have a very solid nucleus of 4 solid starters next year.


I would also like to add on a few things. Justin Champagnie had a minimum 120+ ORTG offensive rating in 12 different games this season. So, it just wasn’t a couple times he hit 120+ already. He averaged 120+ for over 1/3 of the entire full season. Toney hit 120+ in 13 different games. This concludes that these 2 players, as I previously had said, played at an extremely high efficiency level for over 1/3 of the full season. Both are more than capable to improve and I would strongly argue that these 2 players were by far the most valuable players on the entire Pitt team this past season for what they brought to the table. In the last 10 games of the season it wasn’t even close.


I would also touch on Karim Coulibaly here. In AKC’s last 10 games, he was able to hit 100+ in ORTG offensive rating 4 times. 4 other games he failed to hit it, and the other 2 games he played 1 minute which isn’t enough playing time to warrant a useful ranking. In the last 10 games of the season, AKC gave us 4 points per game, 2.5 boards per game and averaged a paltry 7.8 minutes per game. This was a freshman that was giving us over .5 points per minute under the table which no one here even mentioned!


AKC was actually quite productive here when you “dig in” to the numbers. Ironically, in 4 of those games AKC scored 6+ points. AKC shot 50% from the floor during this time. As was previously mentioned / argued, he didn’t get enough playing time and had he received more time, he would have been further ahead in his development. I had previously said AKC could challenge for a 100+ ORTG offensive rating next year. I didn’t come to that conclusion with some wild guess. I saw more post moves / potential impact action from AKC in limited minutes than what I have on tape from Brown in 3 years. A simple stop at youtube will show you exactly what Im talking about against a zone or man defense. AKC has a larger role in the offense next year. At worst, AKC should be a solid “role” player next year that helps fill in the gaps.


As I previously mentioned, we need 8 solid players (100+ ORTG close to or better )in the rotation and some improvement / better decision making from X. This isn’t a giant leap of faith here. I am showing you the reasons why.


Which brings us to the recruiting class. Each individual person may make their own conclusion / expectation on each individual recruit. But Im going to say something blunt here. When you have a Top 15 caliber recruiting class in the Nation (with Jeffress), you should expect to get player impact as freshmen. It should be expected.

With that said I also want to clarify that I don’t think someone like Hugley is going to have anywhere near the freshmen impact Blair did. All along I made the comparison to Chevy. Chevy Troutman’s adjusted stats for 20 minutes per game as a freshmen, around what I expect for Big John.

8.1ppg

5.4rpg

.78 assist per game


These numbers as a freshmen are attainable, and if used correctly in the offense Big John could / should easily beat the assist number. Even if the PPG isn’t as high, that is ok. Those numbers with a ORTG of 100+ is a huge lift in the post. Terrell brown played 18.3 minutes per game and averaged 3.5 boards per game for the season so you can see the rebound impact here too.


That leaves the final 2 players of Odukale and Jeffress to fill the gaps in my “early” 9 man rotation and I really like what both can add to the team to help fill those gaps. Getting any potential / significant contributions from Collier / Amadasun / anyone else is also a welcome addition and bonus. But I like what we have to work with the 9 players mentioned.

I stopped at Horton. Is that a typo?

 

[PittMan 72]

Starting off with the close to this past season


Last 10 games of this season

Champ

14.7ppg

6.4 boards per game

43% FG percentage

27% 3 point percentage


Toney

11 ppg

4.2 boards per game

45% FG percentage

37% 3 point percentage


X

10.9ppg

34% FG percentage

27% 3 point

4.4 assist per game

3.1 turnovers per game


Horton

13.8ppg

41% FG percentage

40% 3 point percentage (2.7 made 3’s per game)

1.5 assist per game

1.5 turnover per game



Using this years team, the Pitt trio above averaged 36.6 points per game the last 10 games of the season. Our entire team averaged 62 points per game during this stretch, meaning, the rest of our entire team averaged 25 points per game. Most of the rest of our team was painfully bad the last 10 games not contributing any offense at all.


I had highlighted already just how poorly Murphy was after his concussion and how Mcgowens play really fell. No team can survive with that low of production outside 3 players unless you have a Lebron James type picking up the slack.


This further highlights just how good Champ and Toney were to close the season. It also highlights that if Horton averages 2.7 made 3’s per contest or anything close to that, our entire offense and spacing is going to be far better next year. (Mcgowens made less than 1 made 3 pointer per game).


If you are asking yourself why I used the last 10 games of the season, the answer is this. Pitt as a team collapsed the last 10 games of the season. And I wanted to see how Horton was performing at the end of his first season at Delaware, which, turned out to be fairly good with the high volume of 3’s made.


This also indicates that this trio of Pitt players held it together the last 10 games while at best every other player on the roster only chipped in with spurts on offense. It is reasonable to conclude that Pitt “should” have a very solid nucleus of 4 solid starters next year.


I would also like to add on a few things. Justin Champagnie had a minimum 120+ ORTG offensive rating in 12 different games this season. So, it just wasn’t a couple times he hit 120+ already. He averaged 120+ for over 1/3 of the entire full season. Toney hit 120+ in 13 different games. This concludes that these 2 players, as I previously had said, played at an extremely high efficiency level for over 1/3 of the full season. Both are more than capable to improve and I would strongly argue that these 2 players were by far the most valuable players on the entire Pitt team this past season for what they brought to the table. In the last 10 games of the season it wasn’t even close.


I would also touch on Karim Coulibaly here. In AKC’s last 10 games, he was able to hit 100+ in ORTG offensive rating 4 times. 4 other games he failed to hit it, and the other 2 games he played 1 minute which isn’t enough playing time to warrant a useful ranking. In the last 10 games of the season, AKC gave us 4 points per game, 2.5 boards per game and averaged a paltry 7.8 minutes per game. This was a freshman that was giving us over .5 points per minute under the table which no one here even mentioned!


AKC was actually quite productive here when you “dig in” to the numbers. Ironically, in 4 of those games AKC scored 6+ points. AKC shot 50% from the floor during this time. As was previously mentioned / argued, he didn’t get enough playing time and had he received more time, he would have been further ahead in his development. I had previously said AKC could challenge for a 100+ ORTG offensive rating next year. I didn’t come to that conclusion with some wild guess. I saw more post moves / potential impact action from AKC in limited minutes than what I have on tape from Brown in 3 years. A simple stop at youtube will show you exactly what Im talking about against a zone or man defense. AKC has a larger role in the offense next year. At worst, AKC should be a solid “role” player next year that helps fill in the gaps.


As I previously mentioned, we need 8 solid players (100+ ORTG close to or better )in the rotation and some improvement / better decision making from X. This isn’t a giant leap of faith here. I am showing you the reasons why.


Which brings us to the recruiting class. Each individual person may make their own conclusion / expectation on each individual recruit. But Im going to say something blunt here. When you have a Top 15 caliber recruiting class in the Nation (with Jeffress), you should expect to get player impact as freshmen. It should be expected.

With that said I also want to clarify that I don’t think someone like Hugley is going to have anywhere near the freshmen impact Blair did. All along I made the comparison to Chevy. Chevy Troutman’s adjusted stats for 20 minutes per game as a freshmen, around what I expect for Big John.

8.1ppg

5.4rpg

.78 assist per game


These numbers as a freshmen are attainable, and if used correctly in the offense Big John could / should easily beat the assist number. Even if the PPG isn’t as high, that is ok. Those numbers with a ORTG of 100+ is a huge lift in the post. Terrell brown played 18.3 minutes per game and averaged 3.5 boards per game for the season so you can see the rebound impact here too.


That leaves the final 2 players of Odukale and Jeffress to fill the gaps in my “early” 9 man rotation and I really like what both can add to the team to help fill those gaps. Getting any potential / significant contributions from Collier / Amadasun / anyone else is also a welcome addition and bonus. But I like what we have to work with the 9 players mentioned.

Lots of names have been - and are still being - conjectured and floated around. But what is your calculated guess on the name for who will be Pitt's final recruit for the #13 roster spot for 2020-21 (provided Jeffress does indeed sign with Pitt for roster spot #12)?

Anyone else can offer their thoughts on this question, too.

 

[Tonyt66]

He mentioned why fit her down. That's why it's good to read everything before commenting! IJS

I stopped at Horton. Is that a typo?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

He mentioned why fit her down. That's why it's good to read everything before commenting! IJS

I didn’t comment. I asked a question, there’s a difference. And that should have been mentioned in the open instead of further on down, because anyone who is analytical would have a hard time getting past the point I did. We are all amateur writers here (most of us), but thats writing 101. It not only is courteous for the reader, but it helps you as the writer, so that people have an easier time embracing your work.

 

[Protes]

I am bullish on AKC. He clearly showed he has ability, but was just still pretty raw. If he can play with more control, I like his offensive potential. But to be on the floor, he will also have to be better on D where he frequently fouled too much.

Ideally, AKC and Hugley take the bulk of the minutes at the #5.

 

[rockypanther]

The first sentence says last 10 games of the season. Horton didn't play for Pitt in the last 10 games of last season. And the stats he used for Horton were in a non-major conference with much less quality and depth than the ACC. I stopped reading after that.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

The first sentence says last 10 games of the season. Horton didn't play for Pitt in the last 10 games of last season. And the stats he used for Horton were in a non-major conference with much less quality and depth than the ACC. I stopped reading after that.

He’ll try to dance around that somehow

 

[Vader_Storm]

For anyone that needs clarification in my unedited post, the stats above were the final 10 games of the season for the 3 players on Pitt's team this year and the final 10 games from Horton at Delaware where I said the "last 10 games of the season" at the very top of the post. I would have assumed that everyone knew Horton was not on this years teams and would have assumed the "full" post would have been read further clarifying it when I said in the the very first sentence after the stats "the pitt trio above". I encourage to read what I write at full length.

To the poster asking about who I think takes the final slot. Ive maintained its likely a 3 point shooter (transfer) and I dont have that answer today.

To the poster suggesting Hugley and AKC get the lions share of the minutes next year at the 5. At this point in time meaning right now today, I agree. Brown's minutes dwindled at the tail end of the season. In the last 5 games or the season Brown averaged 10 minutes per game. It was clear by the ACC Tournament that Jeff Capel was tired of Brown's production / inconsistency.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

For anyone that needs clarification in my unedited post, the stats above were the final 10 games of the season for the 3 players on Pitt's team this year and the final 10 games from Horton at Delaware where I said the "last 10 games of the season" at the very top of the post. I would have assumed that everyone knew Horton was not on this years teams and would have assumed the "full" post would have been read further clarifying it when I said in the the very first sentence after the stats "the pitt trio above". I encourage to read what I write at full length.

To the poster asking about who I think takes the final slot. Ive maintained its likely a 3 point shooter (transfer) and I dont have that answer today.

To the poster suggesting Hugley and AKC get the lions share of the minutes next year at the 5. At this point in time meaning right now today, I agree. Brown's minutes dwindled at the tail end of the season. In the last 5 games or the season Brown averaged 10 minutes per game. It was clear by the ACC Tournament that Jeff Capel was tired of Brown's production / inconsistency.

That’s the point. You can’t assume anything. The reader could also assume you typed Horton and meant someone else. Did you mean Trey? was it Someone else? These are the thoughts going through the readers minds instead of focusing on what you want them to focus on. That’s all. Sorry to hijack the thread. Carry on.

 

[sonofabit]

The first sentence says last 10 games of the season. Horton didn't play for Pitt in the last 10 games of last season. And the stats he used for Horton were in a non-major conference with much less quality and depth than the ACC. I stopped reading after that.

I knew immediately what the OP's intent was unlike a couple of you who refuse to use the ignore option. The Delaware stats had something to do with Capel bringing him aboard given it wasn't a one year plug in grad transfer. There have been countless threads projecting roster minutes and team scoring and I'm quite sure you posters added your take(s) in at least one of them. Hijacking attempts get so old.

 

[gary2]

I am bullish on AKC. He clearly showed he has ability, but was just still pretty raw. If he can play with more control, I like his offensive potential. But to be on the floor, he will also have to be better on D where he frequently fouled too much.

Ideally, AKC and Hugley take the bulk of the minutes at the #5.

He was a factor defensively against Geo.Tech at home and Wake in the tourney. He bodies up better than Brown and gets lost less than Hamilton. If a loose ball is near him, he has the hands to snare it.

I think he will be fine defensively.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

We take these small sample sizes like they mean something. We need to see these guys put up these numbers on a WINNING team. I can go on every roster in the country and give u 2-3 guys that averaged over 11 PPG. Probably 5-6 if I cherry picked 10 games.

PPG are pretty much meaningless in the NCAA cuz someone is gonna score on each team. Efficiency much more important

 

[rockypanther]

I knew immediately what the OP's intent was unlike a couple of you who refuse to use the ignore option. The Delaware stats had something to do with Capel bringing him aboard given it wasn't a one year plug in grad transfer. There have been countless threads projecting roster minutes and team scoring and I'm quite sure you posters added your take(s) in at least one of them. Hijacking attempts get so old.

We all know the OP's intent for every post. I don't have the time to dig up the relevant data he finds so I appreciate that. So I want to read that but the logic and over the top bias makes the post feel so subjective and that it's hard to trust for the reader to accept what he says as objective. This is exactly what Steel Curtain did and many many other posters since I have been on the boards the last 25 years. And what is so prevalent in politics today around the corona.

 

[CougarClaws]

But the logic and over the top bias makes the post feel so subjective and that it's hard to trust for the reader to accept what he says as objective.

I lot of people feel that way about Rockypanther, as you tend towards the polar opposite of Vader's positivity. You got a good brain Sir, and the attitude is just rocky sometimes.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

We take these small sample sizes like they mean something. We need to see these guys put up these numbers on a WINNING team. I can go on every roster in the country and give u 2-3 guys that averaged over 11 PPG. Probably 5-6 if I cherry picked 10 games.

PPG are pretty much meaningless in the NCAA cuz someone is gonna score on each team. Efficiency much more important

This too. Anything can look good if you cherry pick.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Could anyone imagine how Vader would have been like if he was posting when we had Dante Taylor, then Khem Birch and looked like Steve Adams to Pitt was definite. My god, Vader would take about our front court matching up with most teams in the East. That would be the NBA Eastern Conference. And just how did that work out?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Could anyone imagine how Vader would have been like if he was posting when we had Dante Taylor, then Khem Birch and looked like Steve Adams to Pitt was definite. My god, Vader would take about our front court matching up with most teams in the East. That would be the NBA Eastern Conference. And just how did that work out?

Forget the eastern conference. They would’ve outrebound Shaq, Bill Russell and Wilt chamberlain.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Starting off with the close to this past season


Last 10 games of this season

Champ

14.7ppg

6.4 boards per game

43% FG percentage

27% 3 point percentage


Toney

11 ppg

4.2 boards per game

45% FG percentage

37% 3 point percentage


X

10.9ppg

34% FG percentage

27% 3 point

4.4 assist per game

3.1 turnovers per game


Horton

13.8ppg

41% FG percentage

40% 3 point percentage (2.7 made 3’s per game)

1.5 assist per game

1.5 turnover per game



Using this years team, the Pitt trio above averaged 36.6 points per game the last 10 games of the season. Our entire team averaged 62 points per game during this stretch, meaning, the rest of our entire team averaged 25 points per game. Most of the rest of our team was painfully bad the last 10 games not contributing any offense at all.


I had highlighted already just how poorly Murphy was after his concussion and how Mcgowens play really fell. No team can survive with that low of production outside 3 players unless you have a Lebron James type picking up the slack.


This further highlights just how good Champ and Toney were to close the season. It also highlights that if Horton averages 2.7 made 3’s per contest or anything close to that, our entire offense and spacing is going to be far better next year. (Mcgowens made less than 1 made 3 pointer per game).


If you are asking yourself why I used the last 10 games of the season, the answer is this. Pitt as a team collapsed the last 10 games of the season. And I wanted to see how Horton was performing at the end of his first season at Delaware, which, turned out to be fairly good with the high volume of 3’s made.


This also indicates that this trio of Pitt players held it together the last 10 games while at best every other player on the roster only chipped in with spurts on offense. It is reasonable to conclude that Pitt “should” have a very solid nucleus of 4 solid starters next year.


I would also like to add on a few things. Justin Champagnie had a minimum 120+ ORTG offensive rating in 12 different games this season. So, it just wasn’t a couple times he hit 120+ already. He averaged 120+ for over 1/3 of the entire full season. Toney hit 120+ in 13 different games. This concludes that these 2 players, as I previously had said, played at an extremely high efficiency level for over 1/3 of the full season. Both are more than capable to improve and I would strongly argue that these 2 players were by far the most valuable players on the entire Pitt team this past season for what they brought to the table. In the last 10 games of the season it wasn’t even close.


I would also touch on Karim Coulibaly here. In AKC’s last 10 games, he was able to hit 100+ in ORTG offensive rating 4 times. 4 other games he failed to hit it, and the other 2 games he played 1 minute which isn’t enough playing time to warrant a useful ranking. In the last 10 games of the season, AKC gave us 4 points per game, 2.5 boards per game and averaged a paltry 7.8 minutes per game. This was a freshman that was giving us over .5 points per minute under the table which no one here even mentioned!


AKC was actually quite productive here when you “dig in” to the numbers. Ironically, in 4 of those games AKC scored 6+ points. AKC shot 50% from the floor during this time. As was previously mentioned / argued, he didn’t get enough playing time and had he received more time, he would have been further ahead in his development. I had previously said AKC could challenge for a 100+ ORTG offensive rating next year. I didn’t come to that conclusion with some wild guess. I saw more post moves / potential impact action from AKC in limited minutes than what I have on tape from Brown in 3 years. A simple stop at youtube will show you exactly what Im talking about against a zone or man defense. AKC has a larger role in the offense next year. At worst, AKC should be a solid “role” player next year that helps fill in the gaps.


As I previously mentioned, we need 8 solid players (100+ ORTG close to or better )in the rotation and some improvement / better decision making from X. This isn’t a giant leap of faith here. I am showing you the reasons why.


Which brings us to the recruiting class. Each individual person may make their own conclusion / expectation on each individual recruit. But Im going to say something blunt here. When you have a Top 15 caliber recruiting class in the Nation (with Jeffress), you should expect to get player impact as freshmen. It should be expected.

With that said I also want to clarify that I don’t think someone like Hugley is going to have anywhere near the freshmen impact Blair did. All along I made the comparison to Chevy. Chevy Troutman’s adjusted stats for 20 minutes per game as a freshmen, around what I expect for Big John.

8.1ppg

5.4rpg

.78 assist per game


These numbers as a freshmen are attainable, and if used correctly in the offense Big John could / should easily beat the assist number. Even if the PPG isn’t as high, that is ok. Those numbers with a ORTG of 100+ is a huge lift in the post. Terrell brown played 18.3 minutes per game and averaged 3.5 boards per game for the season so you can see the rebound impact here too.


That leaves the final 2 players of Odukale and Jeffress to fill the gaps in my “early” 9 man rotation and I really like what both can add to the team to help fill those gaps. Getting any potential / significant contributions from Collier / Amadasun / anyone else is also a welcome addition and bonus. But I like what we have to work with the 9 players mentioned.

A Caution on Horton's Stats:

Although we should expect him to contribute a lot---the numbers you cite are from his freshman year at Delaware against weaker competition and also before the 3-point line was moved further out. Although his videos show excellent range on his 3-ball it is doubtful he can shoot 41% from the longer distance especially being guarded by better and taller ACC defenders. I would expect him to drop off into the 35-37% range shooting 3s.

 

[Tonyt66]

That first line was my mistake I was talk texting and assumed it came out right but it was supposed to say read further down and he explained how Horton was in there but I do understand why you would think did he make a mistake. Honestly I was wondering why Hortons name was in there too and then I kept on reading and that's when I came up on why he had Hortons name and statistics in there.

I didn’t comment. I asked a question, there’s a difference. And that should have been mentioned in the open instead of further on down, because anyone who is analytical would have a hard time getting past the point I did. We are all amateur writers here (most of us), but thats writing 101. It not only is courteous for the reader, but it helps you as the writer, so that people have an easier time embracing your work.

 

[Tonyt66]

I totally agree with your opinion about AKC except at 6'8 I like him at the #4. TB has played the #5 for 3 yrs he's not going to play the #4 IMO he doesn't have the foot speed to cover the stretch 4's on D or have the O to be a #4. IMO I see JH/TB/ Max at the #5 and JC/AKC/Collier at the #4.

I am bullish on AKC. He clearly showed he has ability, but was just still pretty raw. If he can play with more control, I like his offensive potential. But to be on the floor, he will also have to be better on D where he frequently fouled too much.

Ideally, AKC and Hugley take the bulk of the minutes at the #5.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

One caveat about Coulibaly's height in relation to his position suitability is that he has very very long arms. That makes his reach (wingspan) greater than your typical 6-8 guy so he plays taller.

 

[Vader_Storm]

A Caution on Horton's Stats:

Although we should expect him to contribute a lot---the numbers you cite are from his freshman year at Delaware against weaker competition and also before the 3-point line was moved further out. Although his videos show excellent range on his 3-ball it is doubtful he can shoot 41% from the longer distance especially being guarded by better and taller ACC defenders. I would expect him to drop off into the 35-37% range shooting 3s.

Ryan Murphy was shooting 36% from 3 point range prior to his concussion. Murphy had made 39 three balls at that point in the season.

After the concussion, Murphy shot 17% from 3 for the season and made 3 total 3 pointers in his last 10 games. The concussion finished his season but I think your expectation for 35% for Horton is at the complete bottom end of expectations. Ryan Murphy was exceeding that prior to the injury and Murphy did not have near the history of shooting the basketball like Horton has.

I fully understand your point in the difference in competition between ACC and non-conference. That does not excuse the fact of posting good numbers during those games. A quality basketball player is a consistent basketball player.

Trey Mcgowens is quite possibly the most inconsistent player I can ever remember. Just this season Mcgowens had an offensive rating ORTG of 21 against Arkansas Pine Bluff, a team ranked 350th in the country. There is simply no excuse for that. It perfectly tells the story of Mcgowens, a wildly inconsistent player and one you dont know if he will show up or not in the game.

Im going to go back to Ryan Murphy. Murphy had an ORTG rating at Charlotte that was 100.1. Murphy's rating at Pitt was 95.9. Murphy was a no show shooting the basketball the last 10 games of the season because of the injury.

Using the 120 OTRG high end benchmark, Murphy had 8 games prior to his concussion that had an ORTG offensive rating above 120 which is really good. After the concussion, Murphy hit 80 ORTG one time in his last 10 games and was hovering around 40 to 60 ORTG the last 10 games which is very poor. To say it simply, Ryan Murphy the last 10 games turned into Gerald Drumgoole on offense, a complete no show zero impact player.

Im not a big Ryan Murphy fan because his game revolves around shooting and nothing more. But his concussion more than partially derailed the last 10 games of his season and our team. I can say with almost 100% certainty that Ithiel Horton at minimum will be at least a 100 ORTG player from start to finish next year unless he suffers the same type of head injury Murphy suffered.

For the record Pitt played a lot of weak non conference teams too just like Delaware. The difference is Horton was almost always over 100 ORTG in these games and Horton was a freshmen, not a 2nd year sophomore. And Horton is now going into his 3rd year in college after a redshirt year. And Horton is a far better shooter than Mcgowens.

 

[Protes]

I totally agree with your opinion about AKC except at 6'8 I like him at the #4. TB has played the #5 for 3 yrs he's not going to play the #4 IMO he doesn't have the foot speed to cover the stretch 4's on D or have the O to be a #4. IMO I see JH/TB/ Max at the #5 and JC/AKC/Collier at the #4.

I wasn't envisioning TB at the #4. I was envisioning TB on the bench a lot more. If we are still relying on him at the #5 as much as we have been in the past, we will be hard pressed to be better as a team next year. We need more production there on both ends of the floor. Period.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I wasn't envisioning TB at the #4. I was envisioning TB on the bench a lot more. If we are still relying on him at the #5 as much as we have been in the past, we will be hard pressed to be better as a team next year. We need more production there on both ends of the floor. Period.

I don’t know about anyone else but I wasn’t expecting us to be much better next year. 6-8 ACC wins

 

[jpklein]

One caveat about Coulibaly's height in relation to his position suitability is that he has very very long arms. That makes his reach (wingspan) greater than your typical 6-8 guy so he plays taller.

Agreed. I’ve heard many people say this, and I agree, that height is irrelevant in basketball. It’s all about length.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Agreed. I’ve heard many people say this, and I agree, that height is irrelevant in basketball. It’s all about length.

That's what she said.

 

[Chescat]

I wasn't envisioning TB at the #4. I was envisioning TB on the bench a lot more. If we are still relying on him at the #5 as much as we have been in the past, we will be hard pressed to be better as a team next year. We need more production there on both ends of the floor. Period.

Well guys, I might have to disagree on this one. As you said, if we have to
"rely on TB at the #5 as much as we have been in the past. we will be
hard pressed to be better." However, I can envision him getting some time
at the #4 maybe relieving Champ and Toney. Heres, why........
1. He has a decent mid range jumper, and can hit that shot out along the
baseline and 10 feet out on the side.
2. He won't be overwhelmed by the other teams top Big on the inside since
we hopefully will have Hugley taking up the paint, along with Couibaly and
maybe Amadason. He should be able to rebound better as the second Big.
I think he gets a few minutes at the #5 depending on how Hugley
and Coulibaly produce. Remember, we have no real depth at the #4. We
have Drumgoole and an untested Collier.
While I'm at it....Hugley might get some minutes at the #4, depending on
how Coulibaly progresses, alongside of Brown's few minutes.
Capel has options this year with four Bigs.

 

[Tonyt66]

He never played the 4 here I'm sorry why would that change. He's a 5 and he will share time with big John with a few mins for Max. We will have 3 PF's already. Why would coach put him there after 3 yrs and he'll be our only experienced 5 because we have experience 4 in JC and you can say Toney is one too even though he'll be a 3 and maybe a 2 in a pinch.

Well guys, I might have to disagree on this one. As you said, if we have to
"rely on TB at the #5 as much as we have been in the past. we will be
hard pressed to be better." However, I can envision him getting some time
at the #4 maybe relieving Champ and Toney. Heres, why........
1. He has a decent mid range jumper, and can hit that shot out along the
baseline and 10 feet out on the side.
2. He won't be overwhelmed by the other teams top Big on the inside since
we hopefully will have Hugley taking up the paint, along with Couibaly and
maybe Amadason. He should be able to rebound better as the second Big.
I think he gets a few minutes at the #5 depending on how Hugley
and Coulibaly produce. Remember, we have no real depth at the #4. We
have Drumgoole and an untested Collier.
While I'm at it....Hugley might get some minutes at the #4, depending on
how Coulibaly progresses, alongside of Brown's few minutes.
Capel has options this year with four Bigs.

 

[Protes]

I think he gets a few minutes at the #5 depending on how Hugley and Coulibaly produce.

Well, then you're pretty much agreeing with me that we need a lot better at the #5. We are hopeful that we will be at least somewhat better at the #2. The only other way we take a solid step forward next season is with much better production at the #5. I don't see a GLF for X, Champ or Toney; just incremental improvement.

 

[Protes]

I don’t know about anyone else but I wasn’t expecting us to be much better next year. 6-8 ACC wins

That is certainly a possibility. Again, we have 3 returning starters, all of whom we pretty much know what to expect. Our fortunes will mainly ride on what we get from the other 2 spots.

 

[Chescat]

He never played the 4 here I'm sorry why would that change. He's a 5 and he will share time with big John with a few mins for Max. We will have 3 PF's already. Why would coach put him there after 3 yrs and he'll be our only experienced 5 because we have experience 4 in JC and you can say Toney is one too even though he'll be a 3 and maybe a 2 in a pinch.

He never played the 4 here because with our lack of Bigs, he had to play
the 5. Capel had no choice. We had nobody to play the 5 if Brown went
to the four. We had no bodies. Also the bigs we had were so bad that
Capel could NEVER put two of them on the floor at once. That's not
even mentioning foul trouble if he dared put two of them out there at
once.
Oh, and while I'm at it....I wouldn't rule out Hugley getting some minutes
at the 4 either. He has a floor game, and he has a decent jump shot.
There's four Bigs now which gives Capel some flexibility.
As far as Toney at the 2, I hope not, even if it's in a "pinch." If that
happens it'll because we only have three guards, and that's a whole
other problem.

 

[Chescat]

hasn't gotten done at the 5.

Well, then you're pretty much agreeing with me that we need a lot better at the #5. We are hopeful that we will be at least somewhat better at the #2. The only other way we take a solid step forward next season is with much better production at the #5. I don't see a GLF for X, Champ or Toney; just incremental improvement.

Of course I agree with you "that we need a lot better at the #5" Everything
I said about Brown at the #4 is he hasn't gotten it done at the #5. If Hugley
is the answer at the #5 he's gonna need some rest. I could see Brown
getting some minutes there, and certainly Coulibaly also.
Amadason?....no dea.

Here's what I'm getting at.....Capel is going into practices with four Bigs .
He's gonna find out who and where. He knows what he has with Brown
at the 5 and it ain't pretty. We have no idea if Hugley's more of a 4 than
a 5. We have no idea which and where these four bigs fit best. We do
know Brown hasn't gotten it done at the 5. Capel now has options and
flexibility.

 

[Tonyt66]

We can agree to disagree on this point!
1. Big John said he's not a 5 meaning he wants to play the 4. Now I think he will see sometime there because I don't see coach playing 2 big frosh at the same time.
2. TB is the only exp 5 and never played there even as a Frosh before coach JC got here and he won't see it this yr and I'm with you on he's not good. To be a 4 you have to have a skill set that says put me at 4 he has none of those traits. He's not a better shooter or passer than John.

He never played the 4 here because with our lack of Bigs, he had to play
the 5. Capel had no choice. We had nobody to play the 5 if Brown went
to the four. We had no bodies. Also the bigs we had were so bad that
Capel could NEVER put two of them on the floor at once. That's not
even mentioning foul trouble if he dared put two of them out there at
once.
Oh, and while I'm at it....I wouldn't rule out Hugley getting some minutes
at the 4 either. He has a floor game, and he has a decent jump shot.
There's four Bigs now which gives Capel some flexibility.
As far as Toney at the 2, I hope not, even if it's in a "pinch." If that
happens it'll because we only have three guards, and that's a whole
other problem.

.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Hugley is a 5 until he can prove he can guard athletic 4’s on the wing. Guarding 6’2 white guys from Cleveland ain’t preparing him to be a 4 in the ACC.

 

[Tonyt66]

Those 6'2 guys are probably a little faster then the 6'7 to 6'8 at the 4 in the ACC granted the ACC guys are more skilled for sure. I did say he will see time at the 5 how much IDK but do you agree TB won't be playing the 4 as slow as he is with very little skills.

Hugley is a 5 until he can prove he can guard athletic 4’s on the wing. Guarding 6’2 white guys from Cleveland ain’t preparing him to be a 4 in the ACC.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Those 6'2 guys are probably a little faster then the 6'7 to 6'8 at the 4 in the ACC granted the ACC guys are more skilled for sure. I did say he will see time at the 5 how much IDK but do you agree TB won't be playing the 4 as slow as he is with very little skills.

There isn’t a shot in hell TB ever plays anything but the 5. And they may be quicker than some ACC 4’s, you’re right, but my point was they didn’t prepare him properly for the strength and size of said 4’s.

 

[Tonyt66]

I think we are agreeing when it comes to John and thank goodness you said what you said about TB. I don't get why some people think TB will play the 4. Smh

There isn’t a shot in hell TB ever plays anything but the 5. And they may be quicker than some ACC 4’s, you’re right, but my point was they didn’t prepare him properly for the strength and size of said 4’s.

 

[Drew1208]

Also if you listened to Hugleys coach it's not necessarily about playing the 4 or 5. I think the more accurate statement about Hugley is that he isn't an old school under the basket 5. He specifically was preparing him for the way the game is played today.

 

[Tonyt66]

Yes I seen that and that was a very good thing for him to do and one of the reasons why I said he'll play both IMO. I can't give you a mins break down but it just makes since to me.

Also if you listened to Hugleys coach it's not necessarily about playing the 4 or 5. I think the more accurate statement about Hugley is that he isn't an old school under the basket 5. He specifically was preparing him for the way the game is played today.