VT AD interview; mentions ACC Network

[ThePanthers]

VT AD Speaks on ACC Network...

http://hamptonroads.com/2015/06/whit-babcock-qa-part-ii-coa-implementation-revenue-sources-and-uniform-colors

AB: You look at the SEC and Big Ten and the projected revenue models and they’re the two conferences separating themselves from the pack. Do you feel confident in where the ACC is going and what ground it can make up on those two, certainly in terms of a network?

WB: I do. I feel like the ACC is absolutely going in the right direction. And in fact, I like it, when you’re talking about channels and networks and platforms and all that, I really like the fact that all of our rights are controlled by ESPN. Where the Big Ten might have FOX and the Big Ten Network and all that. When your whole platform is the No. 1 channel that pretty much everybody turns to when they turn on sports, they’re the best marketers, they’re the best promoters. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that the SEC channel was the No. 1 cable launch in history. It opened in 86 million homes, is equal to ESPNU on Day 1. And ESPN made that happen. And I know the SEC has demand and all that, but the ACC does too. So again, commissioner [John] Swofford and all them will figure out that channel and work on that and I have complete confidence in them. But there’s hopefully a number of ways as the ACC that we can increase that revenue share. But I actually like where we’re positioned. I like the league. We cover as a league, I think 40 percent of the United States population in our footprint. So it’s a good time to be a part of the ACC, but yes, we all realize that number needs to keep growing if we’re going to be competitive nationally.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Not much there on which to chew.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Sound likes another Antiphonal Ceremony with not much Clarity and Succinctness but "So Little Done & So Much To Do" and hope it is not a Solemn Doom?

Everyone keeps thinking and saying Swofford is doing something but no one can say it for sure? Meanwhile, the two biggest threats to the ACC continue to spar with the Big Ten Network and SEC Network doing bigger and better in more revenues every year as the ACC sits, waits, and decides delay is the only name of the day?

We shall see?

 

[Saboteur]

Sound likes another Antiphonal Ceremony with not much Clarity and Succinctness but "So Little Done & So Much To Do" and hope it is not a Solemn Doom?

Everyone keeps thinking and saying Swofford is doing something but no one can say it for sure? Meanwhile, the two biggest threats to the ACC continue to spar with the Big Ten Network and SEC Network doing bigger and better in more revenues every year as the ACC sits, waits, and decides delay is the only name of the day?

We shall see?

In the old days when space ships went on th dark side of the moon, the unknown drove people mad...well, at least that is what they wanted people to think (and since NASA lot another rocket yesterday maybe the fear was legit).
So it is with the ACC network.....this can't be just another academic exercise....the arms race in college football is in full gear and we (the ACC schools) need the cash...Pitt most especially.
I sure as shinola hope all this optimism is warranted.
Otherwise, I will have to pull the rabbit ears out of mothballs and watch Pitt on channel 53!

 

[ThePanthers]

Since day 1, they said it would be a 2-3 year process to get an ACC Network up and running, the same time it took the SEC Network. ESPN was always going to do the SEC first.

With everything the ACC has done, they do it close to the vest. Adding Pitt and Cuse, adding ND, GOR, etc, etc, you don't hear much until it is done. I don't see why people think this is any different.

When you hear people that are privy to the info, the presidents and ADs talk, they all seem optimistic. They have the info. That is how the ACC works, they have a select few that are privy and they keep it close until it is done.

The ACC had the luxuary of looking and see what model works the best. They could have done something quickly and went the Pac 12 model and have the difficulties they are having.

Regardless, when you hear the ADs and presidents talk, to me, it seems like they are making progress and are optimistic. The fans are the ones freaking out. I've learned over the last 3 years is that the ACC does not do their work in public and you won't know until it's done. Acting like nothing is being done is foolish IMO.

 

[JHud986]

Not to question or doubt anyone, but the ACC has always worked in the dark. Think of the initial raid on the Big
East with Miami, Va. Tech and BC. That came out of nowhere. Also, when Pitt and Syracuse left the Big East.
They were both done and signed really before anyone knew about it.

 

[ThePanthers]

Not to question or doubt anyone, but the ACC has always worked in the dark. Think of the initial raid on the Big
East with Miami, Va. Tech and BC. That came out of nowhere. Also, when Pitt and Syracuse left the Big East.
They were both done and signed really before anyone knew about it.

Actually, I think the original Big East raid was done in public, and when the whole VT vs Cuse/ didn't initially vote BC in etc happened all in public, it was a train wreck and the ACC took a lesson from that to do their work in the dark from then on.

But the original was very public if I remember correctly.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Plus, wasn't it part of the GOR that ESPN ponies up 30m if they don't start a network?

 

[ThePanthers]

Plus, wasn't it part of the GOR that ESPN ponies up 30m if they don't start a network?

I think the average contract goes up on average $2MM per year per team.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

The ACC did have the luxury of looking at the other conference networks before they start one themselves. The demographics on the ACC area is attractive and if properly rolled out the network should do well.

Since day 1, they said it would be a 2-3 year process to get an ACC Network up and running, the same time it took the SEC Network. ESPN was always going to do the SEC first.

With everything the ACC has done, they do it close to the vest. Adding Pitt and Cuse, adding ND, GOR, etc, etc, you don't hear much until it is done. I don't see why people think this is any different.

When you hear people that are privy to the info, the presidents and ADs talk, they all seem optimistic. They have the info. That is how the ACC works, they have a select few that are privy and they keep it close until it is done.

The ACC had the luxuary of looking and see what model works the best. They could have done something quickly and went the Pac 12 model and have the difficulties they are having.

Regardless, when you hear the ADs and presidents talk, to me, it seems like they are making progress and are optimistic. The fans are the ones freaking out. I've learned over the last 3 years is that the ACC does not do their work in public and you won't know until it's done. Acting like nothing is being done is foolish IMO.

 

[JHud986]

Panther
I stand corrected I do think you are right. The ACC wanted Syracuse and the politicians of VA. wouldn't accept it and force the ACC to go with Va. Tech. Is that the picture you remember?

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Actually, I think the original Big East raid was done in public, and when the whole VT vs Cuse/ didn't initially vote BC in etc happened all in public, it was a train wreck and the ACC took a lesson from that to do their work in the dark from then on.

But the original was very public if I remember correctly.

No, that is definitely incorrect.

Skip Prosser is the guy who broke that story wide open. Prosser, a Carnegie native, was the head coach at Wake Forest at the time and when Ben Howland left Pitt for UCLA, Prosser interviewed for the Panthers' head coaching job. He was a great coach and would have done very well here. Pitt recognized that immediately and extended him an offer that they expected him to accept.

However, when he went back to Winston-Salem to see what their counter-offer might be, part of his bosses' pitch to keep him was that going to Pitt was going to be career suicide because the ACC was about to destroy the Big East as a major conference - which was the prevailing sentiment at the time.

To his everlasting credit, Prosser called Pitt and turned them down and then was honest with them as to why he was deciding to stay at Wake.

Nobody at Pitt - or the rest of the Big East for that matter - had a clue that the ACC was in serious discussions with Miami about defecting to its league. I will always believe that Syracuse and Boston College were also in discussions but we will have to wait for the book to come out on that one. We know for a fact that Miami and the ACC were in close dialogue every day.

It was only after the Prosser/Boehm conversation and the subsequent conversations within the institution and league that Tranghese made everything public and offered his famous indictment, "The ACC operates in the dark." However, by that time it was too late to disrupt the raid.

When everything came to light about how ugly the whole thing was, that is when people on both sides began to get cold feet. The image conscious Tobacco Road schools did not like being seen as corporate raiders and the would be expansion candidates did not wish to be seen as mercenaries. Syracuse's hesitation gave the Virginia politicians the crack they needed to nudge the Hokies past the Orange and into the ACC.

Nearly a decade later, the Big East now a rotting carcass, Syracuse finally did get in along with Pitt, Louisville and Notre Dame. However, the raid of 2004 was definitely not transparent until Skip Prosser blew the lid off the whole thing.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

They wanted Miami,cuse, bc to start
Had to take Miami, va tech.
Petitioned, rejected by ncaa to have champ game with 11.
Added BC.
Very little of it was behind closed doors is what I also remember.

 

[ThePanthers]

Thanks Doc.

I agree, the Miami side was probably very hush-hush, but yeah, once it hit the media it was very wide open. That is the part I remember. I was just out of college and probably didn't pay much attention, so my facts may be off some.

 

[topdecktiger]

When everything came to light about how ugly the whole thing was, that is when people on both sides began to get cold feet. The image conscious Tobacco Road schools did not like being seen as corporate raiders and the would be expansion candidates did not wish to be seen as mercenaries. Syracuse's hesitation gave the Virginia politicians the crack they needed to nudge the Hokies past the Orange and into the ACC.

This part is inaccurate. The problems with expansion were strictly because of the voting. Duke and North Carolina were "no" votes from the very beginning. They didn't get cold feet because of bad press. They had already voted "no" to the formation of the expansion committee. Syracuse didn't hesitate. The expansion committee visited all three schools. The Virginia legislature stepped in when this all became public.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

That's my bad. I was inarticulate on that one.

North Carolina and Duke were no votes but they didn't become empowered until the entire thing became public. Once it was out in the open, thanks largely to Prosser, people like Mike Krzyzewski were then openly campaigning against expansion and others within that league were said to be leaning in that direction as well. However, Swofford won the day because he convinced the league schools that if the ACC didn't take Miami it risked being left behind in the coming years. In retrospect, that was prescient advice.

Krzyzewski said that he didn't want to kill off other leagues but I'm sure that his real motive was to preserve the power basketball holds within the league. That is a HUGE issue for a school like Duke.

Syracuse did have a site visit but, unlike Boston College - which saw the entire deal as a Machiavellian necessity and were ready to go pretty much from the jump - the Orange were also openly torn as to what to do. They always considered themselves a foundational member of the Big East and THE - not one of, THE - conduit between the all sports schools and the non-football playing schools. Then SU AD Jake Crouthamel - who was there for decades - wrote and spoke extensively about why his school was so uncertain about what it was going to do. They saw the opportunity the ACC was going to provide them but they also felt a lot of loyalty towards the Big East, which helped make Syracuse such a prominent brand name in the 80s and 90s.

For the record, the Orange were also the lone BE school that refused to sue the ACC. I think that was correlative, but who knows?

I do believe that Syracuse's hesitation caused yet more headaches for the ACC and ultimately cost the Orange a spot in that league - if only temporarily.

It is all water over the dam now but at the time at was definitely NOT a transparent process. That is what Mike Tranghese was whining about in the first place. It only became transparent after Tranghese, Nordenberg, etc., made it a public issue and rallied media support demonizing the ACC for being so ruthless in its membership machinations.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

That's my bad. I was inarticulate on that one.

North Carolina and Duke were no votes but they didn't become empowered until the entire thing became public. Once it was out in the open, thanks largely to Prosser, people like Mike Krzyzewski were then openly campaigning against expansion and others within that league were said to be leaning in that direction as well. However, Swofford won the day because he convinced the league schools that if the ACC didn't take Miami it risked being left behind in the coming years. In retrospect, that was prescient advice.

Krzyzewski said that he didn't want to kill off other leagues but I'm sure that his real motive was to preserve the power basketball holds within the league. That is a HUGE issue for a school like Duke.

Syracuse did have a site visit but, unlike Boston College - which saw the entire deal as a Machiavellian necessity and were ready to go pretty much from the jump - the Orange were also openly torn as to what to do. They always considered themselves a foundational member of the Big East and THE - not one of, THE - conduit between the all sports schools and the non-football playing schools. Then SU AD Jake Crouthamel - who was there for decades - wrote and spoke extensively about why his school was so uncertain about what it was going to do. They saw the opportunity the ACC was going to provide them but they also felt a lot of loyalty towards the Big East, which helped make Syracuse such a prominent brand name in the 80s and 90s.

For the record, the Orange were also the lone BE school that refused to sue the ACC. I think that was correlative, but who knows?

I do believe that Syracuse's hesitation caused yet more headaches for the ACC and ultimately cost the Orange a spot in that league - if only temporarily.

It is all water over the dam now but at the time at was definitely NOT a transparent process. That is what Mike Tranghese was whining about in the first place. It only became transparent after Tranghese, Nordenberg, etc., made it a public issue and rallied media support demonizing the ACC for being so ruthless in its membership machinations.

Some additional Info:

Way back when, I followed this closely, and the first time I heard of even a modicum of expansion rumor ever faintly showed up, was when Pitt Chancellor was asked at a Pitt Bowl Game by the FSU AD whether Pitt would consider leaving the Big East for the ACC and the answer was no. The next came as a rumor from Miami that it was upset the BEC would note expand and that dates back to before 2000 but came out more and more after 2000 as well. This is well before Prosser comments.

What actually happen Swofford had retained a Denver Based Consultants group, that recommended Cuse, BC, and Miami to expanding the ACC. This was at a time whereby the ACC was not winning BCS Bowls and Miami came off of NCAA Sanctions, and VT was actually doing great winning 10+ games every year, and was dominating CFB Top 25 and 10 in the Rankings and NFL Draft.

In fact, the BEC as doing better than the ACC & Big-12 in the NFL Draft mainly due to Miami, VT & BC. Pitt, WVU started to add some Players too. This was also at a time where Miami and VT were being ranked in the Top 10 and should have qualified for Two BCS Bowls but the other BCS Conferences prevented giving BEC 2 Schools with huge BCS Payouts to a just 8 Schools?

Swofford saw the need to improve the ACC in Football and thought Miami and FSU would actually qualify for Two BCS Bowls a spart of the expansion plan, and remove BEC as a BCS Conference Bowl Bid.

When it did come out the BEC held a meeting and the VT President suggested to the entire BEC FB Schools to Sign a Binding Agreement whereby all Schools remaining would not leave the BEC and in that way the ACC would only get Miami! To my surprise, this was rejected by the BEC Presidents???? VT President knew VT could remain the Top BEC FB Program without Miami in it!

Clearly, after it was rejected, the VT President saw the writing on the BEC President rejection and went straight to Governor of Virginia. The Governor went straight to UVA President and said no vote for expansion unless VT is included.

The ACC needed 7 out of 9 Schools to vote Yes, and UNC & Duke said no way. This continued for a while and the BEC did file a Lawsuit. UConn was ready to be admitted too in the future in Football replacing Temple and their Attorney General filed an Anti-Trust Lawsuit against the ACC.

The ACC did visit all 3 Schools in BC, Cuse, and Miami. Cuse did hestitate and BC duplicity in its dealings with BEC was happening. Yet, once ACC included a visit to VT and UVA voted Yes so long as VT was included the votes overcame the UNC & Duke No Votes.

Cuse continued to talk and balk, BEC Lawsuit continued, and BC kept saying it was part of the BEC as it was talking to the ACC. The BEC looked to its own plans for expansion and it included Basketball Schools. ND offer some well wishes but not much commitment as far as Football. The Catholic Basketball Schools acted horribly with Tranghese crying about Penn State publicly and WVU & PITT President pretty much led the way of what was left of the BEC.

Finally, it was agreed to not wait and dump Miami and VT in 2003 and BC announced it was joining the ACC in 2005, and UConn was added with pledges from UCincy, ULou and USF. along with Marquette, DePaul Basketball! ND agreed to play 3 BEC School every year but that did not happen. Tranghese hatred for Temple Graduate Katz 76'ers Owner also kicked out Temple in FB.

When the 2004 BCS Ranking to qualify for Renewal of Conference BCS Bowl Bids, the ACC insisted all of Miami & VT and BC would be included over the last 3 years within Rankings Ratings and BEC said fine, so long as they could include ULou, UCincy, UConn & USF and they actually had a higher ranking with WVU and ULou being Ranked High in 2004 and 2005, then the ACC? And BEC BCS Bowl Bids were renewed without a whimper from the ACC being lower.

BEC not only recovered but Miami, VT, and BC actually dominated the ACC in the first few years, but WVU & ULou did great in those years too. UCincy, Rutgers, UConn, and USF did pretty good too.

Moreover, with the additions of Marquette, ULou, UCincy, USF, and DePaul the Big East Basketball became the dominant Conference adding as many 9+ teams to the NCAA Tourney.

Miami really never recovered and the ACC never put two Teams in BCS Bowls Bid as planned? The ACC BCS Bowl Wins were the worst of all BCS Conferences and ACC Basketball was reduced to 2 Teams in Duke and UNC and maybe a third once in awhile like UMD. While BEC Basketball often had 6 to 9 teams Ranked in the Top 25!

Rumors on other expansion kept flying and then action by NU to Big Ten and possible Rutgers over Pitt, A&M and Mizzou to SEC, CU and Utah to Pac-10 and some happen others did not.

Still, the BEC Catholic Schools kept giving the BEC Football Schools fits in trying to admit Villanova in Football for the Philadelphia Market with an 18,000 Stadium that never filled up, after Tranghese had kicked out Temple years earlier. Marinnota replaced Tranghese months earlier. TCU was coming in to the BEC. But Pitt, WVU, Rutgers and Cuse AD's walked out of that meeting to even consider to approve Villanova for Football.

So, back to new expansion to take out BEC once and for all.

One day in September with few to none to expect it, PITT & CUSE were invited to the ACC. WVU & TCU had to scramble to the Big-12 as they lost A&M and Mizzou. ULou tried to replace WVU and all made Exit Fee Payout Settlements after Lawsuits were filed. Big-12 scrambled to just survive and there was talk that ISU, KU, KSU, and Baylor might have to join the BEC? PAC-12 was talking to UT, TT, OU, and OKSU
as well as SEC & Big Ten to a few too like UT in pursuit of ND again?

ND joined the ACC, UMD left the ACC for B1G and filed Exit Fee & MD AG Anti-Trust Lawsuits and Rutgers invite, while ULou replaced UMD all at later dates coming and going and WVU and TCU to the Big-12!

BEC FB went an formed the AAC and BEC Catholic Basketball became Big East without ND.

Then the WVU Dude came and said ACC is through, Big Ten Delany hinted more ACC Schools on the way, as some FSU Alumni bitch about ACC Payouts, and secret TV GOR Rights signed by all ACC Schools including ND and all went away as College Football Playoff Committee took over all BCS Bowls Bids and Scheduling and we here today?

By 2014 all was settled and first CFB Playoff happen without Big-12? And now Big-12 OU President still talking Expansion as Big-12 and ACC have no Network date!

 

[topdecktiger]

This is still not accurate. Way too much is being added to the story. It's simple. The ACC wanted to expand in 2003/04. Duke and North Carolina were against it from the very beginning. The other schools were for it. The ACC targeted Miami, Syracuse, and Boston College. They met with the schools, and it was a done deal. The only thing that happened was the Virginia legislature forced UVA to vote no if Virginia Tech wasn't included. That's when the whole process went sideways. All this stuff about schools backing away due to bad press or Syracuse getting cold feet simply didn't happen. This is just stuff that people are adding in after the fact.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Back to the original subject, the Big 12 does remind me a lot of the old Big East in that it is all put together through a very uneasy truce between a lot of disparate parties. Also like the old Big East, it all seems like it could fall apart at any moment.

Basically the only thing keeping Texas in the Big 12 is the presence of The Longhorn Network. However, somewhat paradoxically, that is also what is keeping the rest of that league from being able to keep pace with the other power leagues over time.

Boren is right when he is suggesting that it would be better for the B12 the LHN becomes a league-wide network rather than a school-specific network.

That would mean better programming which would presumably mean better viewership numbers, which in turn would theoretically mean more money for everyone.

However, and this is the rub, Texas is not doing this strictly for the money. They like the money associated with LHN but they really like the exposure it gives them in recruiting and the control and gives them over the rest of their neighbors.

This is definitely a shot across the bow and there's no question about that. It is also fascinating that it would come from Oklahoma, the second most powerful school in that league. It will be interesting to see how it goes as we move forward.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

For the record, I do believe that regardless of the championship game legislation that is being bandied about, the Big 12 will expand by at least two teams within the next five years. Who those teams will be is anyone's guess but I do believe and expansion of some sort is likely coming for that league.

Contrary to popular believe, there are still several very attractive schools out there to be had. The well has not run dry – not by a long shot.

I also believe that they missed a major opportunity when they took West Virginia. They absolutely should've taken Louisville and Cincinnati along with the Mountaineers.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

"topdecktiger, post: 183717, member: 3806"]This is still not accurate. Way too much is being added to the story. It's simple.
Nope, it was not a simple as you a make it out and took months to plan and months to play out and I can link the articles! If UVA votes NO EXPANSION, there is no expansion end of story! Miami, BC, and Cuse were not ready to go just like that as you stated. Cuse balked and talked, and BC was not invited until Miami & VT and did not join until 2005, and so it is was not as simple at that, it almost all fell apart!

The ACC wanted to expand in 2003/04. Duke and North Carolina were against it from the very beginning. The other schools were for it.
True but inaccurate after it was announced!

The ACC targeted Miami, Syracuse, and Boston College. They met with the schools, and it was a done deal.
Nope, Cuse balked, VT President tried to keep BEC together, and wanted Miami to leave, this was an important detail, and only you are inaccurate! It messed up the entire Denver Consultant Plan and forced Swofford to make changes and it replaced New York TV & Cable Subscribers with no new ones from Virginia that was adding VT and they had that State & Market and did not remove BEC as a BCS Bowl Bid Conference!.

The only thing that happened was the Virginia legislature forced UVA to vote no if Virginia Tech wasn't included.That's when the whole process went sideways.
Wrong, details matter, and how it happen matter too.

All this stuff about schools backing away due to bad press or Syracuse getting cold feet simply didn't happen. This is just stuff that people are adding in after the fact.
Yes, it did, Cuse AD wrote all about it in a blog. ACC Expansion happen because UVA only voted Yes, if VT was included, and that realy hurt the ACC Expansion Plans from a TV Payout standpoint. The Schools still only made what they were getting anyway from 9 share to 12 Share and that was confirmed by UNC & Duke AD's.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

For the record, I do believe that regardless of the championship game legislation that is being bandied about, the Big 12 will expand by at least two teams within the next five years. Who those teams will be is anyone's guess but I do believe and expansion of some sort is likely coming for that league.

Contrary to popular believe, there are still several very attractive schools out there to be had. The well has not run dry – not by a long shot.

I also believe that they missed a major opportunity when they took West Virginia. They absolutely should've taken Louisville and Cincinnati along with the Mountaineers.

I think BYU is the only School that brings great attendance to Big-12 Games at least at Home, and new TV Cable Market, but it will refuse to play on Sunday and Holy Holidays. I agree with you, whether, Big-12 goes East to Memphis, UCincy, or stay west Boise State, Houston and SMU is a guess? I would choose UCincy to help WVU, but I would love UCincy in the ACC too?

I agree, the Big-12 should have taken ULou and WVU and UCincy even over TCU but no problem including TCU in that deal too? I just like Memphis or Houston! Memphis a big city growing leaps and bound right now. Memphis adds another State Cable Market. Just Kentucky, Ohio, and WV added New Cable Markets.

Yet, I look at another way, the ACC should have merged with the BEC in 2003 and include ND as it is now. Rutgers, Pitt, Cuse, BC, Miami, VT, and keeping UMD!

I would have taken at least PITT, WVU, RUTGERS, and CUSE in 2011 and keeping UMD or replace them with ULou if they had left. then include ND as it now. If Rutgers was not available I do not think Big Ten would have offer UMD. They would have had to take UConn to help PSU with UMD or grab Kansas for NU?

 

[topdecktiger]

Nope, it was not a simple as you a make it out and took months to plan and months to play out and I can link the articles!

Yes, it was. You can link all you want. It wasn't unexpected that it would take several months. There was already a timetable in place. The expansion committee was voted for at the end of 2003. They had a timetable to evaluate schools and the financial aspects. Then the formal presentation was scheduled for May or June (can't remember which), at which time the final vote to accept the recommended teams would be taken.

True but inaccurate after it was announced!

No, it wasn't. Duke and North Carolina were the only teams against expansion.

Nope, Cuse balked, VT President tried to keep BEC together, and wanted Miami to leave, this was an important detail, and only you are inaccurate! It messed up the entire Denver Consultant Plan and forced Swofford to make changes and it replaced New York TV & Cable Subscribers with no new ones from Virginia that was adding VT and they had that State & Market and did not remove BEC as a BCS Bowl Bid Conference!.

No, simply not true. The only thing that caused a problem was that Virginia switched to a no vote. That is what caused the change. Had Virginia remained a yes vote, then Virginia Tech never would have been taken. They still would have taken Miami, Syracuse, and Boston College. Syracuse didn't pull out. They got left out.

Oh, and this idea you keep pushing that Swofford was trying to kill the Big East is fiction. He wasn't trying to kill the Big East, and he wasn't trying to remove their BCS bid. He was simply trying to improve his conference.

Wrong, details matter, and how it happen matter too.

Right, and what you say didn't happen. Nothing changed until UVA switched. That was the direct cause of the problem.

Yes, it did, Cuse AD wrote all about it in a blog.

I don't doubt Syracuse had mixed feeling about leaving the Big East. They didn't back out of the ACC bid. That's simply false. UVA switched to a no vote unless Virginia Tech was taken. That caused the ACC to have to change plans, and they ended up taking Miami and Virginia Tech instead.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

topdecktiger, post: 183810, member: 3806"]Yes, it was. You can link all you want. It wasn't unexpected that it would take several months. There was already a timetable in place.
Nope again, you are just wrong and can't admit it. it took years whne the Plan was meant to take months! VT was never in the equation and the Plan was changed and TV Money did nit increase per share school. This why the ACC had to go back grab more BEC Schools later.

So cut your crap right now, and my posts before above you explained it to you why it was not so simple, the Links will prove you wrong. I am not going to take the time to refute your ignorance after giving you detailed facts you cannot admit, so go check it out?

 

[topdecktiger]

topdecktiger, post: 183810, member: 3806"]Yes, it was. You can link all you want. It wasn't unexpected that it would take several months. There was already a timetable in place.
Nope again, you are just wrong and can't admit it. it took years whne the Plan was meant to take months! VT was never in the equation and the Plan was changed and TV Money did nit increase per share school. This why the ACC had to go back grab more BEC Schools later.

So cut your crap right now, and my posts before above you explained it to you why it was not so simple, the Links will prove you wrong. I am not going to take the time to refute your ignorance after giving you detailed facts you cannot admit, so go check it out?

That just means you don't have any links to back you up. If you had them, you would post them.

What I said is true. The plan was to take Miami, Syracuse, and Boston College. The reason the plan got derailed is because of UVA voting no. It didn't have anything to do with Syracuse backing out.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

May 13: ACC presidents vote in favor of expansion.

May 16: The ACC announces by 8-1 vote it has started membership talks with Miami, Boston College and Syracuse.

May 19: Tranghese holds a press conference at the Big East meetings in Ponte Vedra, Fla., saying, ``This will be the most disastrous blow to intercollegiate athletics in my lifetime. It's wrong.''

June 2: An ACC committee completes its site visit to BC. ``Boston College would be an excellent fit in the Atlantic Coast Conference, in every respect,'' commissioner John Swofford says.

June 6: UConn, Virginia Tech, Rutgers, Pittsburgh and West Virginia file suit against Miami, BC and the ACC.

June 24: The ACC votes 7-2 to extend membership invitations to Miami and Virginia Tech. BC and Syracuse are left behind and the ACC settles for an 11-team league.

June 25: Syracuse and BC release statements saying they have ended negotiations with the ACC.

June 26: BC is dropped as a defendant in the lawsuit.

July 1: Miami and Virginia Tech join the ACC.

July 11: Big East announces UConn will become a full member in football in 2004, one year earlier than planned.

July 23: Tranghese says he will not choose sides if the Big East football schools decide to split and form a new conference. ``I won't go with either segment,'' he tells reporters at football media day.

Sept. 13: BC athletic director Gene DeFilippo is quoted in The Courant before the Eagles play UConn in football. ``Enough has been said, enough has been written. It's past history. We are very, very happy and proud members of the Big East and we're looking forward to helping to be a part of making this conference the very, very best it can be.''

Sept. 23: Tranghese says the Big East is close to approving a 16-team basketball league, split into two eight-team divisions, and a football league with eight or nine members. Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette and DePaul are the expansion targets.

Sept. 30: The ACC shifts its focus back to BC after an NCAA committee denies proposed legislation allowing conferences with fewer than 12 members to hold football championship games.

Oct. 2: A Big East source says the conference is concerned about losing BC. Another source says the Big East should demand a written commitment from BC officials or pursue another school for membership.

Oct. 6: Big East presidents vote to raise exit fee from $1 million and 12 months' notice to $5 million and 27 months' notice. BC abstains from voting.

Oct. 9: ACC presidents schedule a conference call for Oct. 12 to discuss a possible invitation to BC.

Oct. 10: Sources tell The Courant that BC will accept an invitation if offered. The New York Times reports that the ACC is ready to invite the Eagles. The ACC is dropped as a defendant in the lawsuit brought by Big East schools, leaving Miami as the lone defendant.

Oct. 12: ACC presidents vote 9-0 to make BC its 12th member. BC officials announce they have accepted the invitation, but no exit date from the Big East is announced.

Oct. 14: The Big East returns to court, filing a lawsuit against DeFilippo, BC, Swofford, and officers of the ACC. Attorney General Richard Blumenthal tells The Courant that DeFilippo misused his role as chairman of the Big East athletic directors committee, a position he held throughout the expansion process. Boston College files a declaratory judgment action against the Big East in Massachusetts Superior Court, seeking an impartial determination of its withdrawal obligations.

Oct. 20: Miami files suit against the Big East and four of its members, alleging breach of contract and a conspiracy to defraud.

Oct. 30: The Courant reports that the Big East has finalized expansion plans involving five Conference USA schools. The Big East will add Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida in all sports, and DePaul and Marquette for all sports except football, starting in 2005-06. All 16 members agree to a five-year commitment, through 2009-10.

Nov. 4: Expansion plans officially announced in New York. Tranghese introduces new eight-team football conference and a 16-team basketball conference with the potential to be the best in the nation.

2004

Feb. 24: Two weeks after hearing arguments in Superior Court in Rockville, Judge Samuel Sferrazza dismisses a lawsuit against Swofford and three conference officers. For the third time in four months, the judge determines that neither the conference nor the ACC officers had sufficient business dealings in Connecticut in order to be sued in the state.

Aug. 19: A judge in Massachusetts Superior Court rules that BC owes the Big East the same $1 million exit fee paid by Miami and Virginia Tech.

2005

May 3: The Courant reports that UConn, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and West Virginia have agreed to a settlement with the ACC worth about $5 million, and all litigation between the two conferences, their member schools and officers has been dropped. Each of the four schools receives a $1 million share. The settlement discharges Boston College's obligation to pay a withdrawal fee but the additional $1 million essentially serves that purpose.

July 1: BC leaves the Big East and officially becomes a member of the ACC. The Big East welcomes Cincinnati, DePaul, Louisville, Marquette and South Florida into membership.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

GREENSBORO, N.C., June 24 - The presidents of universities in the Atlantic Coast Conference voted tonight to invite Miami and Virginia Tech to join the A.C.C., according to an official with intimate knowledge of the vote. In a surprising last-minute compromise, the presidents excluded Syracuse and Boston College from the expansion plan.

The vote, by a 7-to-2 margin, capped more than a month of often acrimonious debate that pitted the A.C.C. against the Big East Conference and shook intercollegiate athletics along the Eastern Seaboard.

The presidents at Miami and Virginia Tech must still formally accept the invitations. The teams would start playing in the A.C.C. during the 2004-5 season.

John Swofford, the commissioner of the A.C.C., emerged from his office near midnight and refused to say whether there had been a vote. "A lot of progress has been made tonight and we are very close to bringing this to a conclusion," he said. "I would expect us to have an announcement in the next couple of days."

Swofford declined to comment on whether the A.C.C. had invited Miami and Virginia Tech. Asked if another conference call would be scheduled, he replied, "I doubt it," indicating that final action had been taken.

Mark Pray, a spokesman for Miami, said tonight that the university would not comment until after the A.C.C. officially announces it.

The expansion would increase the A.C.C. to 11 universities from 9. Miami had been seeking to join along with Boston College and Syracuse to form a 12-team conference. Six members supported that plan, one short of the seven votes needed for passage.

Instead, the presidents ended a two-and-a-half-hour conference call by choosing Virginia Tech, a Big East member that was not seriously considered by the A.C.C. until last week when Virginia, an A.C.C. member, said it would not support expansion without inclusion of the Hokies. A majority of the members reportedly opposed adding all four universities for a 13-member league.

Left at the altar were Boston College and Syracuse, which had indicated they would jump to the A.C.C. and whose campuses were recently visited by A.C.C. officials.

The conference call was the fifth among the nine council members in 15 days. No vote was taken on a final plan during the previous four meetings because none of the proposed formats was supported by seven members.

Swofford had said the council wanted to reach a final decision by the end of the month. After Monday, the exit fee for any Big East team leaving that conference jumps to $2 million from $1 million.

Universities that might consider filling the vacancies in the Big East would also face larger exit penalties from their own conferences after Monday. Louisville is expected to pursue one of those vacancies.

Mike Tranghese, commissioner of the Big East, has accused the A.C.C. of trying to destroy the conference. Five Big East universities, including Virginia Tech, filed a lawsuit this month against the A.C.C., Miami and Boston College. Syracuse was not named in the suit.

Hours after the Atlantic Coast Conference voted, the attorney general of Connecticut, said that he would continue to pursue legal action against the expansion.

"Our legal cause is alive and well and indeed stronger than ever after these weeks of secret backroom dealings and continuing illegal conspiracy by the A.C.C.," Richard Blumenthal said after hearing about the outcome of the vote.

Along with pressure from the Big East, the A.C.C. presidents have been deeply divided on the expansion issue. North Carolina's chancellor, James Moeser, was pushing a plan to expand to 10 universities with the addition of only Miami. North Carolina and Duke reportedly voted no tonight.

The possibility of expanding to 12 universities still had significant support within the A.C.C. Among those in favor of adding three Big East teams was Georgia Tech's president, G. Wayne Clough.

"Most of us - not necessarily seven of nine - believe a 12-member expansion is probably the right way to go strategically and tactically,'' Clough said in a telephone interview before the conference call. "There are some advantages with 12 you don't get with 10.''

Miami football was considered the crown jewel in the expansion plan. The Hurricanes have a 33-1 regular-season record over the last three years.

They won the national title in 2002 and lost this year in the national championship game to Ohio State.

Expansion to 12 was expected to bring more television revenue because the conference could hold a lucrative championship game. The A.C.C. has not said whether it will continue to try to add a 12th member or petition the N.C.A.A. to let it stage a championship with 11 members.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/25/sports/ncaabasketball/25colleges.html

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

It is my recollection that Syracuse's hesitation, along with the raid going public, is precisely what caused Virginia to change its mind. It didn't just happen one night. Events caused their change of heart.

As far as Swofford's intent, I have no doubt he wanted to strengthen his own conference. However, there is no question that the ACC was in direct competition with the Big East at that time and he had to know that taking two founding members of that league along with the program that was by far its best program would be a major blow to its long term future.

I don't necessarily blame him, per se. As we have all learned very well over the past decade or so, intercollegiate athletics is a cutthroat business. However, Swofford's intentions (and actions) were anything but pure.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

That just means you don't have any links to back you up. If you had them, you would post them. What I said is true. The plan was to take Miami, Syracuse, and Boston College. The reason the plan got derailed is because of UVA voting no. It didn't have anything to do with Syracuse backing out.

I never said Cuse was backing out, I said Cuse did balk and talked for a while. and I posted VT President first try to keep the BEC together and give up only Miami and that is true to, showing the ACC Plan was not going as planned.

I said, UVA would not vote Yes without VT and that changed many dynamics of the ACC TV Payouts, you claim it was that simple I told you it can't be that simple because VT was not in the first plan.

Get your facts straight.....Understand The First expansion Plane included Miami-Florida already a ACC State with FSU. BC-Boston and Massachusetts and Syracuse-New York!
NOT Virginia Tech-when the ACC already has Virginia.

This proves the expansion did go as planned and not simple with UVA Votes AND THAT MAKES YOU WRONG ABOVE AND NOW TOO!!!!

Had the Expansion gone as planned, BC, Cuse, and Miami all would have left togther, but VT upset that plan and left only after UVA changed its vote from No to Yes with VT not CUSE! FACT!

BC followed in 2005, because they were delayed and the ACC had taken their interests off of them and the LINK proves it so you again are wrong it went simple????

I'll link to show what you posted stinks to death because what you posted was inaccurate, false, and stupid and you know it!

LINK ONE THAT MAKES YOUR POST STINK, BC FIRST INCLUDED THEN RECONSIDERED AFTER VT ADMITTED WITH MIAMI, PROVING THE FIRST PLAN DID NOT GO AS PLANNED AS I STATED:
ACC trains its eyes on BC again
LINK:
http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2003/09/30/acc_trains_its_eyes_on_bc_again/
Excerpts:
The ACC's sense of urgency is based in part on financial realities. In negotiations with ESPN on a new football contract, the ACC learned that the package being offered for an 11-team league is several million dollars short of the $24 million for the last deal, with nine teams.

In addition, the television money for a new basketball contract will be down significantly, because the consensus is that adding Miami and Virginia Tech dilutes the package rather than enhancing it. So the $8 million-$10 million the league can generate with a conference championship game in football becomes more of a necessity than a luxury. To hold such a game, the league needs a minimum of 12 teams.

SECOND LINK, PROVING THE ACC HIRED A DENVER BASED CONSULTANT WHOSE PLAN INCLUDED CUSE, MIAMI, AND BC....NOT VT! PROVING YOU WRONG AGAIN AND I POSTED UVA ONLY WOULD VOTE FOR EXPANSION IF VT INCLUDED AND THAT WAS NOT A SIMPLE PROCESS AS PLANNED BY THE ACC AT THAT TIME! AS WELL AS, THE ACC CONSULTANT PLAN WAS BASED ON ACC GETTING A SECOND BCS BOWL AND THAT DID NOT HAPPEN EITHER AS I POSTED!

Where will expanded ACC get the money?
By Ivan MaiselESPN.com
LINK:
http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/maisel_ivan/1555070.html
EXCERPT:
The ACC hired Dean Bonham, a consultant based in Denver, in 2001 to study the conference's future. The numbers that Bonham developed have convinced the league that expansion is viable. However, no one that I've talked to outside of the ACC's effort to expand believes the merger will create more than $18 million in new revenue. That increase would include rights fees for a 12-team league, a football championship game, and licensing and marketing revenue. That increase would also translate into shares of about $8.8 million per school, which violates the aforementioned law of conference expansion. It would slice each share by about $1 million per school.....

If the ACC making a beeline for a 12-team future, it is taking a significant gamble on its own remade looks, as well as on the future of sports on television. The trend in rights fees has been downward. In addition, the inventory of a new ACC carries no new marquee regular-season games. Miami and Florida State already play every year. Another possible source of revenue for the expanded ACC is the $4.5 million that a BCS conference gets for having a second team receive an invitation to a BCS bowl. If the Big East As We Know It ceases to exist, it's a safe bet that the BCS will take away an automatic bid from the remaining teams. Instead of having six BCS leagues (ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pacific-10, Southeastern) fighting for two at-large bids, five would be fighting for three. The ACC, which has never received a second BCS bid -- even when North Carolina went 10-1 in 1997-98 -- would have a much better opportunity to gain that extra $4.5 million.

THIRD LINK SHOWING THE ACC EXPANSION ANALYSIS:
The Atlantic Coast Conference: A Pre-and Post-Expansion Analysis
LINK:
https://cdr.lib.unc.edu/indexablecontent/uuid:d0e01441-7cd5-48cf-a232-4829b3904459

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Topdecktiger, you are through here and just admit you were wrong! The First ACC Plan did not go as planned with Cuse included and it caused some changes that actually changed the First Consultants Plan number when Cuse was excluded. There are more Links showing the ACC Schools made the same in Football with 12 Schools as they did with 9 schools too. Even BC had to be reconsidered as one of the Links show above!

Simple Huh?

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Virginia Tech not invited to ACC's party
Conference votes to offer invitations to Miami, Syracuse, Boston College Formal discussions to begin Va. governor's attempt to include Hokies fails Colleges
May 17, 2003|By Don Markus | Don Markus,SUN STAFF
Politics might be playing a pivotal role in the ongoing expansion dance between the Atlantic Coast Conference and the Big East, but politicians apparently are not. Virginia Gov. Mark Warner's attempt to build an alliance between his state's two largest schools appears to have failed yesterday when the ACC announced it would offer invitations to Miami, Syracuse and Boston College.

It had been widely reported that Warner wanted the University of Virginia to support the candidacy of Virginia Tech, even if it took Virginia threatening an expansion-busting third dissenting vote to do it. Earlier this week, presidents and chancellors at the nine ACC schools voted 7-2 to support expansion. North Carolina and Duke reportedly voted against expansion, and one more "no" vote would have killed the plan to add three Big East schools.

That vote was made official yesterday with the announcement the ACC will begin "formal discussions" with Miami, Syracuse and Boston College. According to a statement released by the ACC, Clemson president James F. Barker said the decision to expand was the culmination of 18 months of planning the ACC's future. "The priorities of this evaluation have been academic compatibility, commitment to student-athlete welfare, long-term financial stability and national athletic excellence," said Barker, chairman of the league's council of presidents. "These three institutions represent and share the values for which the ACC has long been known." Said Maryland athletic director Debbie Yow: "I am very pleased. This is a concept that we as ADs have been discussing for six years."

A proposal by Virginia to include Virginia Tech did not receive the votes needed to bring further discussion or any formal offer from the league. "It is well known that I believe that Virginia Tech belongs in the ACC," Virginia president John T. Casteen said in a statement. "I have advocated this affiliation, and I still advocate it. ..."My position is not opposition to any other prospective member. Rather, my position is simply that I believe that Virginia Tech belongs in the mix."

Virginia Tech athletic director Jim Weaver said he is more resolute than ever in trying to keep the Big East together. But Weaver wants to get an answer as quickly as possible from beleaguered Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese, who will begin conducting the league's spring meeting today in Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla. "My resolve is to work as hard as we can to keep the Big East Conference intact, and obviously we don't want to spend four or five days doing that and then have people say, `They're gone,' " Weaver said last night. "I'd rather if they've made up their minds, tell us up front, so we can get on with life."

(AS STATED VT PRESIDENT TRIED TO KEEP BIG EAST TOGETHER AND WANTED A BINDING AGREEMENT OF ALL TEAMS SIGNING AND LET MIAMI GO) SIMPLE HUH? OR MAYBE YOU THE ONLY ONE SIMPLE!

Weaver doesn't believe an invitation necessarily means an acceptance, at least in one case. "I personally believe in my heart of hearts that Syracuse, in particular, does not want this to happen, does not want to go," Weaver said. "We'll have to try to find that out early."

("TOPDUCKERS" NEW NAME?) LOOKS LIKE SYRACUSE DID BALK??????

In a statement released last night by the Big East, Tranghese said he was made aware of the invitation to the three schools during a telephone call yesterday from ACC commissioner John Swofford."This comes as no surprise," Tranghese said. "We are looking forward to productive meetings this weekend."

These meetings likely will determine the Big East's future - specifically, if the 24-year-old league can survive losing Miami, a perennial national championship contender in football; reigning national basketball champion Syracuse, and Boston College, which occupies a key television market. If Tranghese can lure Miami back into the fold, possibly by sweetening the Hurricanes' share of the league's television package, the other two schools likely will return as well. But considering that Miami's athletic department lost a reported $1.5 million last year, it seems doubtful the Big East has enough to offer.

While acknowledging the ACC's invitation, Miami athletic director Paul Dee said, "It is our intention to give the Big East Conference a full and fair hearing regarding our continued membership." There has been much discussion, in public and behind closed doors, about breaking the Big East into two separate leagues - one for football and the other for basketball. That might be the only way the league can keep Miami. (EXAMPLE WHY I ALWAYS POSTED THAT MIAMI WANTED FOOTBALL EXPANSION AND TRANGHESE TOO DUMB TO PULL IT OFF, BIG EAST ENDED UP TAKING USF, UCINCY, AND ULOU, AND UCONN ANYWAY???

"That's been a subject that's been talked about in the past, and I think ultimately that will happen," Weaver told The Roanoke (Va.) Times on Thursday. "I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with a way of keeping Miami. It has everything to do with having like institutions with like objectives. (SEE AND READ TOPDUCKER, VT WANTED TO KEEP ALL TEAMS EVEN IF MIAMI WOULD LEAVE???)

"We have a perception of being a hybrid conference. ... I happen to believe our current conference alignment is being run and managed very well ... but perception in this world is reality. We're thought of as half of a basketball conference and half of a football conference, and maybe there's not like institutions with like objectives." Another direction the Big East might go would be to try to figure out a way for Notre Dame to join the league for football. It is the only team in the league currently to play everything but football.

The Fighting Irish have their own television package but might be interested amid reports that they will have a tougher time getting a spot in the Bowl Championship Series when the BCS reconfigures its criteria in a couple of years.
LINK:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2003-05-17/sports/0305170241_1_virginia-tech-syracuse-and-boston-weaver

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Hey, TopDucker only you looking very simple now????

ARTICLE LINK TO MAKE YOU THINK:
Virginia Tech, Big East Plotting Strategy
Conference Plans Opposition To Acc's Expansion
May 15, 2003|By NORM WOOD Daily Press
In Blacksburg, Richmond and Rhode Island on Wednesday, politicians and athletic officials proved Virginia Tech and the Big East aren't giving in to the Atlantic Coast Conference's proposed expansion without a fight. (THAT SIMPLE HUH?)

Miami appears bound to leave the Big East for the ACC, whose presidents voted 7-2 on Tuesday to expand the conference to 12 members. But questions remain regarding which two out of the Big East trio of Boston College, Syracuse and Virginia Tech will be invited to join. While ACC officials decide which schools they will invite, officials at Tech and the Big East are working on several plans to try to ensure their future.

Jim Weaver, Virginia Tech's athletic director, and Frank Beamer, the Hokies' football coach, spent part of Wednesday making phone calls to ACC athletic directors in an effort to sway opinions. Weaver also met with Charles Steger, Virginia Tech's president, to plot the university's strategy. Phone calls to Weaver, Beamer and Steger were not returned. "Our first priority is to keep the Big East intact," Beamer stated on a Web site. "The league just enjoyed its greatest year. ...However, if keeping the Big East intact is not a reality, we've been doing all we can to make sure relevant parties understand how attractive we are as an institution and as an athletic entity. If Miami leaves the Big East for the ACC, then certainly we'd like to be in that mix. ...It's hard for me to imagine that others wouldn't consider us an asset."

Mike Tranghese, commissioner of the Big East, is preparing proposals to give to his coaches and ADs at the conference's annual spring meetings this weekend in Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla. "We have been monitoring the news surrounding the ACC and expansion," Tranghese said. "I will take (ACC commissioner) John Swofford at his word that the ACC presidents have not formally voted. I will also take Paul Dee at his word that Miami intends to take its time in reviewing its options." Tranghese will probably propose keeping all of the eight football-playing universities - - including Connecticut, which will take Temple's place in the conference in 2005 -- together and adding another university to form a new conference for football and basketball, according to a source. Another plan has the Big East expanding to 12 schools for football and dropping the five schools that don't play basketball.

Tranghese also reportedly intends to meet with Jim Calhoun, Connecticut's men's basketball coach, and Jim Boeheim, Syracuse's men's basketball coach, this weekend to discuss plans for the basketball- playing schools in the conference. Boeheim, whose Orangemen won the 2003 national championship, has been critical of Syracuse's joining the ACC, saying it will destroy rivalries and add travel. Miami is considered to be the cardholder in determining which two universities will be invited to the new ACC. Because of the large number of Miami students from the Northeast, it is expected that Miami president Donna Shalala will want Boston College and Syracuse over Virginia Tech.

While the chances of Virginia Tech joining the ACC are slim, a groundswell of support for the Hokies has complicated matters. (THE WORD "COMPLICATED" IS OPPOSITE OF "SIMPLE" TOPDUCKER) University of Virginia president John Casteen voted in favor of expansion Tuesday, but only if Virginia Tech was among the three schools invited to the ACC. Gov. Mark Warner issued a statement supporting Virginia Tech's admission to the ACC. (JUST AS I POSTED TOPDUCKER AND NO EXPANSION POSSIBLE UNLESS UVA VOTES FOR IT AND THAT BOOTED CUSE TOO!)

"In my view, any expansion of the ACC will only benefit the Commonwealth if it also includes Virginia Tech," Warner said. "I will continue to work with the college presidents and my counterparts in other states to try to ensure that Virginia Tech is not left out of a major athletic conference." Tranghese hopes to preserve the Big East and is close friends with Syracuse AD Jake Crouthamel. (TOPDUCKER JUST SHIP HIS PANTS OOPS!)

Syracuse's athletic department made a little more than $100,000 during 2001-02 school year, so the Orangemen aren't likely to turn down an invitation to join the ACC, with its wealthy TV contract and the possibility of reaping more income from a conference championship game in football. (GUESS THE ACC TURNED CUSE DOWN AFTER UVA MADE EXPANSION POSSIBLE ONLY IF VT COMES TO THE ACC AND THAT MESSED UP THE DENVER CONSULTANT PLAN)

BC athletic director Gene DeFilippo has a football background, and his school lost more $800,000 during the 2001-02 school year. "I am anxious to meet with our conference members in Florida and am prepared to do whatever it takes to preserve the 24-year history of the Big East Conference," Tranghese said. "This is a conference that is worth preserving, and we should all look forward to the challenge."

Norm Wood can be reached at 247-4642 or by e-mail at nwood@dailypress.com
LINK:
http://articles.dailypress.com/2003...-and-expansion-acc-presidents-acc-s-expansion

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

LINK FOR TOPDUCKER TO THINK ON THE BINDING AGREEMENT ASKED FOR ALL BIG EAST TEAMS TO STAY TOGETHER EXCEPT MIAMI???

ARTICLE EXCERPT:
With that being said, let me briefly outline the chronology of events. I have been as surprised as anyone by the expansion process. When we learned that ACC expansion was reality rather than rumor we had been hearing for several years, we visited with Commissioner John Swofford to learn as much as he was appropriately able to share on the plans for the conference. Virginia Tech has made no pretense for the past 30 years that we would be a good fit for the ACC. We made clear that our first preference was to keep the Big East intact, but if ACC expansion was inevitable, Virginia Tech would be a good fit. As events began to unfold we became increasingly concerned about the future of the Big East conference. Early on, I proposed to other members of the Big East that we sign a mutual non-departure agreement where none of us would leave the conference. That proposal was not accepted by key players in the process. It was apparent to me at that point that schools would leave the Big East Conference. We became a participant in the lawsuit to protect the university and her many interests...................
....As the situation unfolded, University of Virginia President Casteen, Virginia's Governor Warner, and Attorney General Kilgore placed their credibility on the line to advocate finding a solution to protect Virginia Tech's future. Needless to say, this was in every major newspaper in the country. When President Clough of Georgia Tech asked to meet with me, we both agreed that it would be advisable to seek legal advice prior to having such a meeting. Further I advised my colleagues in the Big East and our outside legal counsel that such a meeting was to occur. Last Tuesday evening, I received a call from Commissioner Swofford inviting us to begin discussions that could lead to an invitation to join the ACC. The next day, I advised the Big East that the conversation had occurred and met with our Board of Visitors seeking their advice on the matter. We have been straightforward and above board about our situation. Weighing all of the factors, we concluded that should an invitation be forthcoming it would be in the best interest of Virginia Tech to accept. Given the circumstances and sequence of events, this is the best choice.......
......This process has been difficult, but the actions of my colleagues in the Big East with whom I have been involved in this issue have been exemplary. My colleagues in the ACC have also acted with integrity. At the end of the day, many will disagree with our decisions. They of course are free to do so. However, we have dealt as best we can with a very complex changing landscape of intercollegiate athletics to the best of our ability in difficult times. (SIMPLE ONLY IN TOPDUCKER'S MIND)
LINK FOR TOPDUCKER TO BLINK?
http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2003/06/2003-214-pk-dup-120.html

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Why there is a need for an ACCN!

Big Ten expansion: Jake Crouthamel predicts four superconferences, no Big East!

Former Syracuse University athletic director Jake Crouthamel told the New York Times that he believes the college athletic landscape is about to undergo sweeping changes and that the Big East Conference will not survive. From today's New York Times, in an article by Pete Thamel: (Crouthamel) predicted that Syracuse would be in a different conference within five years and that there would be “utter turmoil” in college sports. “I’ve been thinking about this for quite a while,” Crouthamel said. “I don’t see a whole lot of alternatives for anyone. You only control what your conference has. You don’t control what the Big Ten or the Pac-10 or the SEC does. What do you do? I don’t know what you do.” Crouthamel predicted that four 16-team superconferences would emerge from the "utter turmoil," and that those conferences would leave the NCAA, even forming their own basketball tournament to rival the NCAA's. Big East Commissioner John Marinatto, not surprisingly, disagreed with Crouthamel:“Although I admire and respect Jake very much, he also predicted the Big East could not survive the challenges of 2005, and we are actually stronger today than we have been in our history,” Marinatto said.

Which 3 schools would you add to the Big Ten?
Notre Dame 27.83% (2,380 votes)
Pittsburgh 23.16% (1,981 votes)
Syracuse 19.26% (1,647 votes)
Missouri 17.43% (1,491 votes)
Rutgers 8.23% (704 votes)
Connecticut 4.08% (349 votes)
Total Votes: 8,552
LINK:
http://blog.syracuse.com/sports/2010/04/big_ten_expansion_jake_croutha.html

 

[stomping it out]

Hey, TopDucker only you looking very simple now????

ARTICLE LINK TO MAKE YOU THINK:

Virginia Tech, Big East Plotting Strategy
Conference Plans Opposition To Acc's Expansion
May 15, 2003|By NORM WOOD Daily Press
In Blacksburg, Richmond and Rhode Island on Wednesday, politicians and athletic officials proved Virginia Tech and the Big East aren't giving in to the Atlantic Coast Conference's proposed expansion without a fight. (THAT SIMPLE HUH?)

Miami appears bound to leave the Big East for the ACC, whose presidents voted 7-2 on Tuesday to expand the conference to 12 members. But questions remain regarding which two out of the Big East trio of Boston College, Syracuse and Virginia Tech will be invited to join. While ACC officials decide which schools they will invite, officials at Tech and the Big East are working on several plans to try to ensure their future.

Jim Weaver, Virginia Tech's athletic director, and Frank Beamer, the Hokies' football coach, spent part of Wednesday making phone calls to ACC athletic directors in an effort to sway opinions. Weaver also met with Charles Steger, Virginia Tech's president, to plot the university's strategy. Phone calls to Weaver, Beamer and Steger were not returned.

"Our first priority is to keep the Big East intact," Beamer stated on a Web site. "The league just enjoyed its greatest year. ...However, if keeping the Big East intact is not a reality, we've been doing all we can to make sure relevant parties understand how attractive we are as an institution and as an athletic entity. If Miami leaves the Big East for the ACC, then certainly we'd like to be in that mix. ...It's hard for me to imagine that others wouldn't consider us an asset."

Mike Tranghese, commissioner of the Big East, is preparing proposals to give to his coaches and ADs at the conference's annual spring meetings this weekend in Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.

"We have been monitoring the news surrounding the ACC and expansion," Tranghese said. "I will take (ACC commissioner) John Swofford at his word that the ACC presidents have not formally voted. I will also take Paul Dee at his word that Miami intends to take its time in reviewing its options."

Tranghese will probably propose keeping all of the eight football-playing universities - - including Connecticut, which will take Temple's place in the conference in 2005 -- together and adding another university to form a new conference for football and basketball, according to a source.

Another plan has the Big East expanding to 12 schools for football and dropping the five schools that don't play basketball.

Tranghese also reportedly intends to meet with Jim Calhoun, Connecticut's men's basketball coach, and Jim Boeheim, Syracuse's men's basketball coach, this weekend to discuss plans for the basketball- playing schools in the conference. Boeheim, whose Orangemen won the 2003 national championship, has been critical of Syracuse's joining the ACC, saying it will destroy rivalries and add travel.

Miami is considered to be the cardholder in determining which two universities will be invited to the new ACC. Because of the large number of Miami students from the Northeast, it is expected that Miami president Donna Shalala will want Boston College and Syracuse over Virginia Tech.

While the chances of Virginia Tech joining the ACC are slim, a groundswell of support for the Hokies has complicated matters. (THE WORD "COMPLICATED" IS OPPOSITE OF "SIMPLE" TOPDUCKER) University of Virginia president John Casteen voted in favor of expansion Tuesday, but only if Virginia Tech was among the three schools invited to the ACC. Gov. Mark Warner issued a statement supporting Virginia Tech's admission to the ACC. (JUST AS I POSTED TOPDUCKER AND NO EXPANSION POSSIBLE UNLESS UVA VOTES FOR IT AND THAT BOOTED CUSE TOO!)

"In my view, any expansion of the ACC will only benefit the Commonwealth if it also includes Virginia Tech," Warner said. "I will continue to work with the college presidents and my counterparts in other states to try to ensure that Virginia Tech is not left out of a major athletic conference."

Tranghese hopes to preserve the Big East and is close friends with Syracuse AD Jake Crouthamel. (TOPDUCKER JUST SHIP HIS PANTS OOPS!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, TDT is much closer to the truth of the matter...
quick summary.

VT was not considered in the original ACC expansion plans.
VT did everything to hold the rest of the BE together at the time, Weaver offered to sign a binding agreement at the BE meetings if the other members would also. SU/BC wouldn't accept or sign. I don't remember but think that Fat Dee was excluded from BE meetings at this point?
Weaver/Beamer/Steger thought the BE could survive if only UM left but if the ACC took 3, it was over.

At this point, and it is the most important point...
It wasn't the Va legislature that got involved with the process.
It was Hokies holding positions within the VA legislature that got Gov. Warner's ear and promised votes and smooth sailing on bills he endorsed and and support for his run for Senator!!

UVA didn't want VT in ACC but when Casteel saw UVA losing Va state $$, he took the opportunity to stick it to Chapel Hell and the Dookies and cover his butt in the process. Remember the vote was 7-2 for expansion at that point, one more no vote, then nobody was getting in, NOBODY! He had the ACC by the short and curlies, let VT in and 2 others or no deal.

Oompa-Loompa Shala was the one who thought she could force two more small private schools on the ACC along with UM. She got a poo samich to eat and found out UM would be just another dog with a number hanging on its side with it came to dealing with Tobacco Road in hurry. Dont' forget, VT accepted first, UM the next day.

Cuse may have been hesitant, BC wasn't and got their ticket stamped next.

 

[stomping it out]

Actually, TDT is much closer to the truth of the matter...
quick summary.

VT was not considered in the original ACC expansion plans.
VT did everything to hold the rest of the BE together at the time, Weaver offered to sign a binding agreement at the BE meetings if the other members would also. SU/BC wouldn't accept or sign. I don't remember but think that Fat Dee was excluded from BE meetings at this point?
Weaver/Beamer/Steger thought the BE could survive if only UM left but if the ACC took 3, it was over.

At this point, and it is the most important point...
It wasn't the Va legislature that got involved with the process.
It was Hokies holding positions within the VA legislature that got Gov. Warner's ear and promised votes and smooth sailing on bills he endorsed and and support for his run for Senator!!

UVA didn't want VT in ACC but when Casteel saw UVA losing Va state $$, he took the opportunity to stick it to Chapel Hell and the Dookies and cover his butt in the process. Remember the vote was 7-2 for expansion at that point, one more no vote, then nobody was getting in, NOBODY! He had the ACC by the short and curlies, let VT in and 2 others or no deal.

Oompa-Loompa Shala was the one who thought she could force two more small private schools on the ACC along with UM. She got a poo samich to eat and found out UM would be just another dog with a number hanging on its side with it came to dealing with Tobacco Road in hurry. Dont' forget, VT accepted first, UM the next day.

Cuse may have been hesitant, BC wasn't and got their ticket stamped next.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Actually, TDT is much closer to the truth of the matter...quick summary.
Really, we shall read what you say, but let us see what you give us to trust you?

VT was not considered in the original ACC expansion plans.
Hmmmnnnn, I posted that and backed it up with links, that you had to read and it shows nothing was that simple as TNT said?

VT did everything to hold the rest of the BE together at the time, Weaver offered to sign a binding agreement at the BE meetings if the other members would also. SU/BC wouldn't accept or sign.
Good glad you can read some of my Links now tell me where TNT said that before i posted it???

I don't remember but think that Fat Dee was excluded from BE meetings at this point?
Yeah, we can see you remember little in my posts too?

Weaver/Beamer/Steger thought the BE could survive if only UM left but if the ACC took 3, it was over.
Hmnnn, TNT had nothing about the VT President Binding Agreement and neither do you without my posts and links! also, it was not simple as VT President stated and very complex since the ACC had to change their plans due to getting the UVA Posts!

At this point, and it is the most important point...It wasn't the Va legislature that got involved with the process.
Really, my Links show it was the VT President, VA Governor, UVA President, VA Attorney General, UVA & VT ADs, good to see you can read and TNT never said a word on these players, and there was no Expansion with UVA Vote! First we have TopDucker being wrong and now You Repeat of my Links!

It was Hokies holding positions within the VA legislature that got Gov. Warner's ear and promised votes and smooth sailing on bills he endorsed and and support for his run for Senator!!
I can support this part of any posts but TNT never said what yous aid either? I just kept telling him, the First Denver Expansion Plan required CUSE, and the no Expansion could take place without the UVA Yes Vote and that did come from help of Governor and other Politicians and that is is not a simple matter and the VT President said it wasn't and tghat makes you and TNT wrong?

UVA didn't want VT in ACC but when Casteel saw UVA losing Va state $$, he took the opportunity to stick it to Chapel Hell and the Dookies and cover his butt in the process.
You are guessing and full of BS as well, and here is why? If you were correct above, then why did the VT President call for a Binding Agreement to keep all other Big East Team in the Big East and just let Miami go???? Caught you in a whopper outright lie!!!! The facts are in direct conflict with your privacations VT did not want to join the ACC as he satted and just keep the Big East together. When he saw the Big East President refuse to sign a BINDING AGREEMENT, that is when he went to Governor and asked for UVA Vote (A Public University Supported By VA to not Vote for Expansion unless it includes VT! guess you can't Read the VT President accounting and no reason for him to lie at all?

Remember the vote was 7-2 for expansion at that point, one more no vote, then nobody was getting in, NOBODY! He had the ACC by the short and curlies, let VT in and 2 others or no deal.
Yeah, this is what I posted, not TNT so you wrong about that too about TNT being closer to the truth, when tthe Links confirm that is in my Posts!

Oompa-Loompa Shala was the one who thought she could force two more small private schools on the ACC along with UM. She got a poo samich to eat and found out UM would be just another dog with a number hanging on its side with it came to dealing with Tobacco Road in hurry. Dont' forget, VT accepted first, UM the next day.
The only Oompa-Loompa is your own posting!!! Now let me educate you and correct you, like we did TNT shall we by showing why you are wrong too and the Expansion Plan was far more complex and not simple to be voted on and did change in order to be passed!
1. Dr. Shalala did earn her PH.D from Syracuse and Syracuse would be a great fit for ACC Basketball? That Looks To Be Oompa On Your Part?

2. Also, Syracuse was a founding member of the Big East and part of the Expansion Plan was to remove the Big East as a BCS Bowl Bid Conference so it would be easier for the ACC to get 2 Teams in BCS Bowls and more money for the Schools.That Is Now Loompa Added To Your Part?

3. Moreover, The Denver Consultant Plan required New York State a New TV Market for the ACC to make the numbers work for bigger and better TV Payouts and why it did not include Another Team from Virginia? Facts Matter If You Can Read Them?

4. In addition, Miami had been complaining for years to Big East Commissioner and other Big East Presidents to Expand Football, and break off of Catholic Basketball even before Dr. Shalala arrived at Miami?Oh, My another Loompa On Your Part?

5. Additionally, the Denver Consultants Plan was being created even before 2001 and included Syracuse as UMD''s AD Yow talked about and just after Dr. Shalala was made President of Miami in 2001. Do you really believe Dr. Shalala wrote the Plan for the Denver Consultants in a few weeks?Timing Is Important Too Oompa?

6. Furthermore, Dr. Shalala voted for VT not Syracuse later knowing there is no Expansion without UVA Voting Yes, just like I said and not TNT?Oops!

7. Finally, two of the Tobacco Road Dogs UNC & DUKE voted against the Expansion Plan and 2 NCS & Wake voted for VT and Miami and eventually BC! You Proved Oompa-Loompa Dupa All By Yourself!

Therefore, so mush for you Shalala and Tobacco Road nonsense reasoning and either your ignorance or lies, either way, tell us what part of stupid do you prefer now with TNT???

Cuse may have been hesitant, BC wasn't and got their ticket stamped next.
Wait, Wait, Do Tell Me and Us, TNT Syracuse did not back or wait even though the VT President actually talked to Syracuse pointing how important they are for Big East Survival as my Links proves, but you said, TNT is closer to the Truth?

Now just go away, my links have educated the Posters, proved TNT and You wrong, and you tell fibs and expect us to believe you?

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

That just means you don't have any links to back you up. If you had them, you would post them. What I said is true. The plan was to take Miami, Syracuse, and Boston College. The reason the plan got derailed is because of UVA voting no. It didn't have anything to do with Syracuse backing out.

Well, you have enough Links now that show you were you went wrong. Even Stumpy said Cuse waited and he made more things up than you did in support of you?

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

"Topdecktiger, post: 183483, member: 3806"]This part is inaccurate. The problems with expansion were strictly because of the voting. Duke and North Carolina were "no" votes from the very beginning.
The First Vote was 8-1 to Vote to discuss Expansion and later changed to 7-2 once the plan was announced. So, you wrong right there too!

They didn't get cold feet because of bad press. They had already voted "no" to the formation of the expansion committee.
Well, Tiger-Paul's Timeline with a Link says otherwise and the Denver Consultant Plan was bought and paid for, but only 1 school voted against discussing it.

Syracuse didn't hesitate.
Hmmnn, several Links prove that comment wrong, even VT President says he called Syracuse and BC to stay in Big East and asked all Schools except Miami to sign a Binding Agreement and that did cause some delays? heck, it caused Vt time enough to replace Syracuse too? Plus, BC was put in only after VT and Miami got in, if that is not a delay what do you call it?

The expansion committee visited all three schools.
Yes it did visit Cuse, Miami, and BC and then UVA said No go without VT and they visited VT and VT got in first them Miami and later BC! So it was 4 schools was it not?

The Virginia legislature stepped in when this all became public.
The Links say, VT President attempted to save Big East with a Binding Agreement just like posted above. Only after the Big East Schools refused to sign,VT President got involved with Governor, Attorney General and UVA President!The Links prove it and you were inaccurate again.

 

[stomping it out]

I didn't read your links, nor all of your boring diatribe. I don't need to read some bobble-head from RDT or other tripe to know what happened back then, I lived in Richmond at the time and mingled with some of the power brokers in the legislature, did you?

Nope, you are wrong. Neither Casteel or Steger knew how deep the discussion was going on at the time. UVA had already voted 3 times in favor of expansion... (hint: the UVA admin doesn't give a rats behind about sports, not now, not then, when compared to academics). Gov. Warner didn't care either, all he cared about was votes in his pocket.. VT was no different to him than Hampton/ODU/VCU or William and Mary.
Guess what? Politicians tell half-truths, sometimes out right lies to make themselves look better in the media!

You were disputing TDT's post that Cuse/other BE members blinking caused VT's inclusion, that is what I responded to as a favor to educate!

Oh, let me make this as clear as I can, VT slobbered over being a member of the ACC for over 40 years. It was never going to happen. It wasn't the VT President that made the offer at the BE meeting, dummy! That was an AD meeting, read and comprehend before you respond.
Cuse was still living good the on Donnie/Marvin days.
BC was still strong.
WVU still had Nehlan at the time.
Pitt had name recognition.
VT was flying high on the Vick years.

Also, I didn't read past 1, if 2-6/7? contained the sames stupidity,enjoy your fairyland.

IF you are so knowledgeable about who/what/when was being discussed behind closed doors during this time frame, go ahead and post what ND was saying and to whom??