What 21-22 ACC record would prompt a coaching change?

[Sean Miller Fan]

Levance2 is on record saying that even at 0-20, he gets another year. I wouldn't agree with that but there's also no way we are going 0-20.

I would say that at 2-18 you have to make a move UNLESS (as I always say), he signs a dynamite class in November. Though, if it were me, if we go 4-16 or worse and the November class sucks (or there isnt one), I think you need to do it.

 

[PittPoker]

Levance2 is on record saying that even at 0-20, he gets another year. I wouldn't agree with that but there's also no way we are going 0-20.

I would say that at 2-18 you have to make a move UNLESS (as I always say), he signs a dynamite class in November. Though, if it were me, if we go 4-16 or worse and the November class sucks (or there isnt one), I think you need to do it.

Pitt cannot afford the buyout man. Sadly he gets 2 more years minimum. And because Heather hired him she will look for any positives for a chance to keep him beyond that. So even if we go winless next year in conference Capel is back for a 5th season. But he can't recruit or coach so after year 5 Heather should buy him out.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Levance2 is on record saying that even at 0-20, he gets another year. I wouldn't agree with that but there's also no way we are going 0-20.

I would say that at 2-18 you have to make a move UNLESS (as I always say), he signs a dynamite class in November. Though, if it were me, if we go 4-16 or worse and the November class sucks (or there isnt one), I think you need to do it.

The early signing period means nothing now. No kid is gonna sign up to play for Pitt before seeing the product.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The early signing period means nothing now. No kid is gonna sign up to play for Pitt before seeing the product.

80% of the Top 150 will be signed in November so if Capel has any prayer at a good class, he has to sign them in November. Remember, we were told he didn't want anyone in the 21 class so he's been concentrating on 22. Cant wait until next April to sign them

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

80% of the Top 150 will be signed in November so if Capel has any prayer at a good class, he has to sign them in November. Remember, we were told he didn't want anyone in the 21 class so he's been concentrating on 22. Cant wait until next April to sign them

It is meaningless whether or not he has a good class in November. If the on court product is a disaster, every kid will get out of their LOI. It’s impossible to hold a kid to that now. Early signing period should be done away with and will be within 5 years.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It is meaningless whether or not he has a good class in November. If the on court product is a disaster, every kid will get out of their LOI. It’s impossible to hold a kid to that now. Early signing period should be done away with and will be within 5 years.

He is WAY more likely to land a kid he signed in November than a kid he did not sign in November. He is back to selling his "vision" so anyone who signs in November will probably be bought into whatever he is that he's selling

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

He is WAY more likely to land a kid he signed in November than a kid he did not sign in November. He is back to selling his "vision" so anyone who signs in November will probably be bought into whatever he is that he's selling

I actually agree with you for once. Capel has a better chance of landing good players in November rather than in the Spring of 22.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

He is WAY more likely to land a kid he signed in November than a kid he did not sign in November. He is back to selling his "vision" so anyone who signs in November will probably be bought into whatever he is that he's selling

You don’t seem to be grasping this. THE EARLY SIGNING PERIOD IS MEANINGLESS. If he were to land 4 top 100 kids in November and they went 3-17 in ACc and mass transfers, they’d all get out of their LOIS. He needs to win games next year

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

You don’t seem to be grasping this. THE EARLY SIGNING PERIOD IS MEANINGLESS. If he were to land 4 top 100 kids in November and they went 3-17 in ACc and mass transfers, they’d all get out of their LOIS. He needs to win games next year

Chambers was able to pull it off. He had 3 Top 100 kids after losing a bunch of games.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Levance2 is on record saying that even at 0-20, he gets another year. I wouldn't agree with that but there's also no way we are going 0-20.

I would say that at 2-18 you have to make a move UNLESS (as I always say), he signs a dynamite class in November. Though, if it were me, if we go 4-16 or worse and the November class sucks (or there isnt one), I think you need to do it.

Honest question; why would a 0-20 record warrant another season for Capel when 0-18 got Stallings fired? If Capel goes winless, which he won’t, I would be in favor of moving in another direction.

Here’s what I think: I don’t want to fire Capel just yet, but progress needs to be seen. He went 6-10 in ACC play this year, a .375 winning percentage. The expectation should be to finish with a conference winning percentage high than that, which would be about 8 wins.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You don’t seem to be grasping this. THE EARLY SIGNING PERIOD IS MEANINGLESS. If he were to land 4 top 100 kids in November and they went 3-17 in ACc and mass transfers, they’d all get out of their LOIS. He needs to win games next year

I dont understand your logic at all. If Capel has ANY chance at a great class, he has to sign them in November AND hope they dont ask out of their LOI. He has NO chance at a great class if he has no good players signed in November.

 

[levance2]

Honest question; why would a 0-20 record warrant another season for Capel when 0-18 got Stallings fired? If Capel goes winless, which he won’t, I would be in favor of moving in another direction.

It doesn't matter if it is warranted. Pitt paid to get Stallings out of here early, and there's no way we're going to do that again so soon after. Pitt doesn't have the finances to be paying people to not work. That just means we'll be hamstrung in trying to select a cheap candidate to replace him.

Secondly, it will be a really bad look if idiot Barnes chased out Dixon and then BOTH subsequent coaches bottom out to historically bad levels and are fired for it. We called this program toxic when Capel took it over, but having that happen again only 4 years later would be like relocating the Pete to Chernobyl.

There's a saying, "If everyone you meet is an asshole, you are the asshole." If every coach Pitt hires is a failure, Pitt is the failure.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If every coach Pitt hires is a failure, Pitt is the failure.

100% disagree

Evans was ok
Willard wasnt but had a few moments
Howland and Dixon were hugely successful

We made 2 bad hires back to back. It happens.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I dont understand your logic at all. If Capel has ANY chance at a great class, he has to sign them in November AND hope they dont ask out of their LOI. He has NO chance at a great class if he has no good players signed in November.

Because you just shout your points into the wind and never try to read an entire post or comprehend what they mean.

The early signing period has been rendered meaningless by the portal and player movement. If he has any kids signed early; they will have to be recruited til the day they step on campus if Pitt struggles. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp. November LOI’s mean nothing.

 

[levance2]

100% disagree

Evans was ok
Willard wasnt but had a few moments
Howland and Dixon were hugely successful

We made 2 bad hires back to back. It happens.

Those guys are all ancient history and have nothing to do with how this program is perceived in 2021.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Because you just shout your points into the wind and never try to read an entire post or comprehend what they mean.

The early signing period has been rendered meaningless by the portal and player movement. If he has any kids signed early; they will have to be recruited til the day they step on campus if Pitt struggles. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp. November LOI’s mean nothing.

Who does Pitt have a better chance of actually getting to play for the team

a) a Top 150 player they sign in November
b) a Top 150 player who is unsigned after the November period

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Those guys are all ancient history and have nothing to do with how this program is perceived in 2021.

Yea but I'm saying "Pitt" is not the failure. People have won here. Just need a coach.

 

[levance2]

Yea but I'm saying "Pitt" is not the failure. People have won here. Just need a coach.

As I said, and you ignored, this is the state of the program after our most successful coach in history was chased out. Nothing that happened before Dixon has any bearing on how this job or program are perceived.

Coaching Pitt has essentially become Mission Impossible. As soon as anything goes sideways, the AD will burn you and disavow all of your actions.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Who does Pitt have a better chance of actually getting to play for the team

a) a Top 150 player they sign in November
b) a Top 150 player who is unsigned after the November period

Whichever player thinks Pitt can win in 2022. November LOIs are meaningless and he may be better off picking off the decommits if they have a nice season

 

[Purdue_Panther]

Levance2 is on record saying that even at 0-20, he gets another year. I wouldn't agree with that but there's also no way we are going 0-20.

I would say that at 2-18 you have to make a move UNLESS (as I always say), he signs a dynamite class in November. Though, if it were me, if we go 4-16 or worse and the November class sucks (or there isnt one), I think you need to do it.

You likely can’t buy him out now but I force him to make changes to his staff and hope that forces him to consider other options (how much less would he really make back at duke as an assistant).

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Whichever player thinks Pitt can win in 2022. November LOIs are meaningless and he may be better off picking off the decommits if they have a nice season

So I take it you feel Capel's best strategy is to not sign anyone in November? Are you on crack? Like 80% of November signings dont ask out of their LOI if the coach has remained the same.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

So I take it you feel Capel's best strategy is to not sign anyone in November? Are you on crack? Like 80% of November signings dont ask out of their LOI if the coach has remained the same.

He could get some early commits. They won’t be any good players, but he could do it. No one early is going to commit to Pitt this year. And they never have under Capel.

first class - all late signings
2nd class - Horton and Champ late signings
3rd class - Collier early and Hugley early when we had some momentum, Jeffress and Odukale late
4th class - still had some momentum, no early signings

so going into the year of 22, you think he’s all of a sudden gonna land QUALITY players early? That would be a tectonic shift in how it has been going. We have no momentum and really not much to sell. He’s gonna have to find some diamonds in the rough and hope to have a good season. Not sure how you can see anything else happened at this juncture.

I’m not gonna go back and forth with you on this. I just don’t see how he’s gonna close on any top 150 players before the season. It’s happened twice in 4 years when we had a ton of momentum. He could take reaches early for sure.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

He could get some early commits. They won’t be any good players, but he could do it. No one early is going to commit to Pitt this year. And they never have under Capel.

first class - all late signings
2nd class - Horton and Champ late signings
3rd class - Collier early and Hugley early when we had some momentum, Jeffress and Odukale late
4th class - still had some momentum, no early signings

so going into the year of 22, you think he’s all of a sudden gonna land QUALITY players early? That would be a tectonic shift in how it has been going. We have no momentum and really not much to sell. He’s gonna have to find some diamonds in the rough and hope to have a good season. Not sure how you can see anything else happened at this juncture.

I’m not gonna go back and forth with you on this. I just don’t see how he’s gonna close on any top 150 players before the season. It’s happened twice in 4 years when we had a ton of momentum. He could take reaches early for sure.

No, I dont think he's going to get anyone good in November. I think his class is going to suck like the others. And guess what, if you want to know why recruiting has sucked, its largely due to not signing anyone of note in November. 80% of the Top 150 are gone by Thanksgiving then everyone else fights over the rest. Capel ABSOLUTELY must have a great class signed in November. Its his last hope. He is in almost the same position as Pat Chambers. Chambers bought Carr and Stevens and signed them in November to give him a few more years. Without a great class, Capel really doesn't stand much of a chance of coaching beyone 22-23.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Honest question; why would a 0-20 record warrant another season for Capel when 0-18 got Stallings fired? If Capel goes winless, which he won’t, I would be in favor of moving in another direction.

Here’s what I think: I don’t want to fire Capel just yet, but progress needs to be seen. He went 6-10 in ACC play this year, a .375 winning percentage. The expectation should be to finish with a conference winning percentage high than that, which would be about 8 wins.

Yea, I dont see how Capel gets another year if he goes 0-20, which I am sure would also come with more mass transfers. He would surely be gone. So how many wins does he need to get 22-23? 1? 2? 3?

Like I said, I dont think we go 0-20 but the fact that its at least possible is ridiculous in Year 4. We'll be underdogs in 17-18 ACC games.

 

[HailToPitt725]

It doesn't matter if it is warranted. Pitt paid to get Stallings out of here early, and there's no way we're going to do that again so soon after. Pitt doesn't have the finances to be paying people to not work. That just means we'll be hamstrung in trying to select a cheap candidate to replace him.

Secondly, it will be a really bad look if idiot Barnes chased out Dixon and then BOTH subsequent coaches bottom out to historically bad levels and are fired for it. We called this program toxic when Capel took it over, but having that happen again only 4 years later would be like relocating the Pete to Chernobyl.

There's a saying, "If everyone you meet is an asshole, you are the asshole." If every coach Pitt hires is a failure, Pitt is the failure.

I respect your opinion- I’m still a Capel defender myself- and stability is definitely something we should strive for.

However, let’s say he does go 0-20 or even something like 1-19 or 2-18. Would a year five under Capel be that much better than starting over under a new coach? I feel like the state of the program and the outside perspective would be about the same. At that point, there’d have to be something else there (e.g. strong 2022 class) to generate optimism for me.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

However, let’s say he does go 0-20 or even something like 1-19 or 2-18. Would a year five under Capel be that much better than starting over under a new coach?

I think most of us would agree that if he wins 3, 6, 6, and say 3 games in his first 4 years and there's no hope for the future because his 2022 class sucks, he absolutely would deserve to be fired. However, it could come down to the cost. He could be given a 5th and final season simply to avoid paying a larger buyout.

 

[levance2]

I think most of us would agree that if he wins 3, 6, 6, and say 3 games in his first 4 years and there's no hope for the future because his 2022 class sucks, he absolutely would deserve to be fired. However, it could come down to the cost. He could be given a 5th and final season simply to avoid paying a larger buyout.

The record at the end of 2021-22 is a lagging indicator. It is too late already for Lyke to do anything as AD to impact this upcoming basketball season. She is already planning and evaluating 2022-23. She either likes what she sees with Capel or she doesn’t.

Her mind was made up months before the book closed on Stallings 0-18 record. It’s not like winning the final game would’ve changed her mind about anything.

 

[Wanstash21]

You don’t seem to be grasping this. THE EARLY SIGNING PERIOD IS MEANINGLESS. If he were to land 4 top 100 kids in November and they went 3-17 in ACc and mass transfers, they’d all get out of their LOIS. He needs to win games next year

I guess it depends on what he's selling them. If he's selling them on this 21-22 team winning, then yes I'd expect them to get out of their LOI's.. but there's noway that's on the table. He would be selling them on his vision for when they're enrolled. Maybe play into the fact we have some young players on the roster in 21-22 and this is a developmental year. And then 22-23 is their year.. who knows. Regardless, things look bleak.

 

[Wanstash21]

if the University is serious about winning basketball games, he has to be on the hot seat. Since he's gotten here, there's been character issues, locker room issues, off court issues, kids transferring, one kid potentially in jail, and whole bunch of bronze/silver finishes for top recruits.

The only thing Capel has going for him is Femi and Will. That's it. Those two kids won't be high impact players on a winning team next year. They might be high impact for us, but we'll be lucky to scrape 5 ACC wins next year.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No one else has an opinion?

So far we just have:

Levance2: 0
Poker: 0
SMF: 3

Does everyone really believe he gets a 5th year even if he goes 0-20 or 1-19?

 

[OhioPanther99]

No one else has an opinion?

So far we just have:

Levance2: 0
Poker: 0
SMF: 3

Does everyone really believe he gets a 5th year even if he goes 0-20 or 1-19?

What's the point???

 

[gary2]

Levance2 is on record saying that even at 0-20, he gets another year. I wouldn't agree with that but there's also no way we are going 0-20.

I would say that at 2-18 you have to make a move UNLESS (as I always say), he signs a dynamite class in November. Though, if it were me, if we go 4-16 or worse and the November class sucks (or there isnt one), I think you need to do it.

Whatever our record ends up being.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What's the point???

Its a message board. Curious if other fans agree that he is back even at 0-20

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

No one else has an opinion?

So far we just have:

Levance2: 0
Poker: 0
SMF: 3

Does everyone really believe he gets a 5th year even if he goes 0-20 or 1-19?

Possibly? Hard to say, I don't have enough economic information to comment. At a minimum I think it would mean at least two assistants would change and some sort of statement.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

If we doesn’t win 10 or more games overall next year, then he is done IMO.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If we doesn’t win 10 or more games overall next year, then he is done IMO.

OK, so 8-3 OOC and 2-18 in ACC gets him another year?