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Why is PN not a good recruiter?

The roster was 6th in the ACC other than FSU, Clemson and Miami- their are on par with or ahead of every other program.

Getting hung up on any given class is silly. If they land at top 25/30 class next year does that mean all is good?

Is this a great class on paper? No, of course not. Did they address certain needs for the roster? Probably.

SoufOaklin4Life said:
Joey
Our peers are the acc.

So it’s not relative to our ranking compared to western Montana state.


This class has
Syracuse, gt, bc and wake behind it and duke ahead of it.

Not exactly the company I want to keep
Click to expand...
 
SoufOaklin4Life said:
Joey
Our peers are the acc.

So it’s not relative to our ranking compared to western Montana state.


This class has
Syracuse, gt, bc and wake behind it and duke ahead of it.

Not exactly the company I want to keep
Click to expand...
Winning football games isn’t a top priority for the administration or alumni of the University of Pittsburgh. We are in the same boat as the schools you listed. You could add UVA as well.
 
joeydavid said:
The roster was 6th in the ACC other than FSU, Clemson and Miami- their are on par with or ahead of every other program.

Getting hung up on any given class is silly. If they land at top 25/30 class next year does that mean all is good?

Is this a great class on paper? No, of course not. Did they address certain needs for the roster? Probably.
Click to expand...
Back to back 7 loss seasons.

I see no reason to give Narduzzi the benefit of the doubt.
 
I think most other than a couple unbridled optimists will agree the class (and the one before) is a disappointment... and the likelihood it will remain disappointing (regardless of HC) is pretty undeniable too. But again, what can possibly be done to reverse it? If someone has a realistic idea, actually it would be better to pass it on to Capel first, because it is actually more alarming that HE is striking out so hard right now. I mean, if everyone here is so certain the recruiting problems in football are mostly Duz burning out after 4 years, and our "terrible" stadium, how to explain basketball?
 
joeydavid said:
There's 130 FBS football teams. 35th of 130 isn't great nor is it terrible like the trolls on this board make it out to be.

So go ahead and ignore the facts posted and get hung up on the semantics of a neutral opinion.

Where's the "good" zone start for you?
Click to expand...

That’s kind of a false narrative though. You cant say Pitt is competing against 130 other teams, they’re really only (or should be) competing against their peers, the other 60 or so P5 teams.

Whatever the ranking is amongst that group of 60 is the much more accurate barometer.
 
#Whataboutism101

The topic was recruiting not results. Not benefit of doubts.

Absent of a logical counter argument it always turns to a "whataboutism".

If you want to talk about results; you need to include Pitt's idiotic scheduling. If you do, the "7" loss argument doesn't exist.

SoufOaklin4Life said:
Back to back 7 loss seasons.

I see no reason to give Narduzzi the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...
 
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SoufOaklin4Life said:
Back to back 7 loss seasons.

I see no reason to give Narduzzi the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...
In years 3 amd 4.

That’s the damning part.

The fix does not appear imminent with recruiting trending from mediocre to bad. . And I’m going to go out on a limb and predict the new OC doesn’t move the needle very much.
 
thebadby2 said:
In years 3 amd 4.

That’s the damning part.

The fix does not appear imminent with recruiting trending from mediocre to bad. . And I’m going to go out on a limb and predict the new OC doesn’t move the needle very much.
Click to expand...
Beatty was a good hire and upgrade as the WR coach. Whipple is an upgrade over Watson. The coaching staff was improved by the moves he made.
 
Going 5 teams up or 5 teams down the rankings; it's all about the same. 35 of 65 puts them right in the middle of the P5 schools.

BFo8 said:
That’s kind of a false narrative though. You cant say Pitt is competing against 130 other teams, they’re really only (or should be) competing against their peers, the other 60 or so P5 teams.

Whatever the ranking is amongst that group of 60 is the much more accurate barometer.
Click to expand...
 
joeydavid said:
#Whataboutism101

The topic was recruiting not results. Not benefit of doubts.

Absent of a logical counter argument it always turns to a "whataboutism".

If you want to talk about results; you need to include Pitt's idiotic scheduling. If you do, the "7" loss argument doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
If you don’t think the recruiting level and results are strongly correlated-
You’re doing acrobatics to avoid using common sense.
 
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joeydavid said:
The changes on the defensive side last year was an improvement too.
Click to expand...
The improvements on defense was because of injury. So we actually had a linebacker who attacked instead of going backwards.

And we lost out last 3 games in a row

Ended up 59th in total defense
And 75th in scoring defense.

So if that’s an improvement that’s alarming
 
SoufOaklin4Life said:
The improvements on defense was because of injury. So we actually had a linebacker who attacked instead of going backwards.

And we lost out last 3 games in a row

Ended up 59th in total defense
And 75th in scoring defense.

So if that’s an improvement that’s alarming
Click to expand...
I won't look it up because I'm too lazy, BUT 59th and 75th were improvements from where we had been the previous 3 years, I believe.
So yes improvement, relatively speaking.
 
Duzz is one of the least personable and least relatable HC I've seen in a lifetime of watching college football.

Have you seen his presser's? They're cringe worthy. Stumbles over his words, routinely throws other people under the buss, and just says weird stuff routinely.

No doubt that Pitt has challenges relating to game day atmosphere. But good recruiters figure out how to communicate what the school offers relative to recruit's criteria. This is recruiting 101.

But Duzz doesn't get it. His one-size-fits-all "look at our rich tradition" misses the mark and doesn't register with recruits.

And, worse, he has been totally unable to build relationships with local HC coaches who find him distant and unaccessible.

The guy stinks at recruiting - and those in the know...they know it.
 
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SoufOaklin4Life said:
The improvements on defense was because of injury. So we actually had a linebacker who attacked instead of going backwards.

And we lost out last 3 games in a row

Ended up 59th in total defense
And 75th in scoring defense.

So if that’s an improvement that’s alarming
Click to expand...

8 of the teams Pitt played were top 50 in offense. The D was not dominant, but they also weren't the reason Pitt lost to ND or those last three. Well against Clemson, they got schooled, but so did the 5 stars on Alabama's D. I don't think that absolves the recruiting. I just think that they have done a better job of developing kids on defense.

On offense I think that is a huge criticism. Even the higher rated offensive recruits (MacVittie, Reeves, Flowers, Clark, Warren, Brandon Ford) seem to have stagnated.
 
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DiehardPanther said:
Beatty was a good hire and upgrade as the WR coach. Whipple is an upgrade over Watson. The coaching staff was improved by the moves he made.
Click to expand...
A ham sandwich would be an improvement over Watson. But something tells me we aren't going to suddenly turn into Oklahoma offensively with this new hire. We have some major issues beyond the OC.
 
SoufOaklin4Life said:
The improvements on defense was because of injury. So we actually had a linebacker who attacked instead of going backwards.

And we lost out last 3 games in a row

Ended up 59th in total defense
And 75th in scoring defense.

So if that’s an improvement that’s alarming
Click to expand...
The D was improved last year. Not great, but better. And not in a way that's going to pop statistically. It just generally wasn't the dumpster fire that the past couple of year were.

When the offense goes 3 and out all day and can't score or maintain reasonable field position, the defensive stats are going to suffer mightily. Most of our games were played largely on the Pitt side of the 50.

Not defending anybody here--we are a long way from good in all facets of football.

We all agree on one thing--unless recruiting improves markedly, we will continue to be stuck in this purgatory for a long time. This year's class does not provide much reason for optimism.
 
foxchapelpanther said:
Duzz is one of the least personable and least relatable HC I've seen in a lifetime of watching college football.

Have you seen his presser's? They're cringe worthy. Stumbles over his words, routinely throws other people under the buss, and just says weird stuff routinely.

No doubt that Pitt has challenges relating to game day atmosphere. But good recruiters figure out how to communicate what the school offers relative to recruit's criteria. This is recruiting 101.

But Duzz doesn't get it. His one-size-fits-all "look at our rich tradition" misses the mark and doesn't register with recruits.

And, worse, he has been totally unable to build relationships with local HC coaches who find him distant and unaccessible.

The guy stinks at recruiting - and those in the know...they know it.
Click to expand...
Who is actually saying these things, even anonymously?

It was the same junk about Dixon. He was not personable, didn't like recruiting, etc. Magically all those things improved the moment he went elsewhere too a school with a complicit admin and an ace assistant at a booster-friendly school.

Can you name 3 coaches a thousand percent less personable than Duz? I can.
Saban. Meyer. Kelly.

It's the whole structure and multiple issues, as was summarized in the thread above. From the admin to the need for payola to the facilities to the amenities to the schedule to the donors to the assistants to societal changes (wuss kids who insist on a sure thing) ... the coaches personality can also be on that list but not very high.
 
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If we end up having another class next year ranked anywhere near 50 and if we can't win at least 8 games next year, Narduzzi is a failure.
 
McKee Place said:
Who is actually saying these things, even anonymously?

It was the same junk about Dixon. He was not personable, didn't like recruiting, etc. Magically all those things improved the moment he went elsewhere too a school with a complicit admin and an ace assistant at a booster-friendly school.

Can you name 3 coaches a thousand percent less personable than Duz? I can.
Saban. Meyer. Kelly.

It's the whole structure and multiple issues, as was summarized in the thread above. From the admin to the need for payola to the facilities to the amenities to the schedule to the donors to the assistants to societal changes (wuss kids who insist on a sure thing) ... the coaches personality can also be on that list but not very high.
Click to expand...

Yeah this not being personable enough is a goofy criticism. Capel who is a stud recruiter isn’t all that dynamic speaking with the media and is struggling to real in recruits. Most kids say they think Duzz is a great guy

Anyone expecting Pitt to hire a guy who will light it up in recruiting is delusional.
 
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rmf05 said:
If we end up having another class next year ranked anywhere near 50 and if we can't win at least 8 games next year, Narduzzi is a failure.
Click to expand...
The school will likely agree and they'll part ways. Don't worry though. The next guy is sure to do much better, in the same exact circumstances as Narduzzi had, though.
 
foxchapelpanther said:
Duzz is one of the least personable and least relatable HC I've seen in a lifetime of watching college football.

Have you seen his presser's? They're cringe worthy. Stumbles over his words, routinely throws other people under the buss, and just says weird stuff routinely.

No doubt that Pitt has challenges relating to game day atmosphere. But good recruiters figure out how to communicate what the school offers relative to recruit's criteria. This is recruiting 101.

But Duzz doesn't get it. His one-size-fits-all "look at our rich tradition" misses the mark and doesn't register with recruits.

And, worse, he has been totally unable to build relationships with local HC coaches who find him distant and unaccessible.

The guy stinks at recruiting - and those in the know...they know it.
Click to expand...
Regarding your last 3 paragraphs. Didn’t local coaches say the same thing about Walt Harris? People used to get on him for not landing local kids, and were always getting on Brian Deal for focusing too much attention on Ohio.
 
pittbb80 said:
Yeah this not being personable enough is a goofy criticism. Capel who is a stud recruiter isn’t all that dynamic speaking with the media and is struggling to real in recruits. Most kids say they think Duzz is a great guy

Anyone expecting Pitt to hire a guy who will light it up in recruiting is delusional.
Click to expand...
Yes. Capel and The Pete are the best counter to many of the arguments of "the coach's personality" and "the terrible stadium" are holding us down. Again, I will never say theses things aren't part of it but it's more than "the coach" or "the atmosphere".

Capel is no Coach Cal but most can agree he's dynamic. He's even buds with JayZ apparently! And the Pete is not maybe the jewel it was but it's still a dam nice facility, and it's on campus. When things are cooking, it's a great atmosphere. Capel also hasn't been there long enough to grow stale or embittered, either (a legit concern of the state of Narduzzi). So what explains the struggles for him of late?
 
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McKee Place said:
Yes. Capel and The Pete are the best counter to many of the arguments of "the coach's personality" and "the terrible stadium" are holding us down. Again, I will never say theses things aren't part of it but it's more than "the coach" or "the atmosphere".

Capel is no Coach Cal but most can agree he's dynamic. He's even buds with JayZ apparently! And the Pete is not maybe the jewel it was but it's still a dam nice facility, and it's on campus. When things are cooking, it's a great atmosphere. Capel also hasn't been there long enough to grow stale or embittered, either (a legit concern of the state of Narduzzi). So what explains the struggles for him of late?
Click to expand...
There isn’t reason to panic about capel ‘s recruiting until the spring signing period and the summer transfer season.

He I’m not worried about .

Narduzzi on a slow decline in years 3,4, and 5 in recruiting-
Yeah- alarm bells
 
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I’m not worried about Capel as a whole and still think he’ll do great things. But it is puzzling as to why some of these kids are picking programs like Illinois over Pittt where the coach and opportunity seem to be in Pitts advantage.
 
joeydavid said:
The whole premise is idiotic. He built the 35th best roster based on recruiting grades.

Is that terrible? No
Is that great? No

It's good. It's good enough to win the Coastal and it's good enough to be ranked in the top 25.

All of this "his recruiting is terrible" based in opinion not the facts of the 35th best roster according to recruiting rankings.
Click to expand...
Where did end up ranked the past three years? I can't remember
 
Why don't 4-5 star recruits come to Pitt.! Pitt is a very middle of the road program that
has very little of a intriguing atmosphere to sell. Factors such as coaching changes, low
attendance, average winning record and lack of national PR. All these factors contribute
to a middle of the road program. In general the program lacks stability and consistent
success which are key factors for good recruiting. PN has to start winning 8-10 games
per season to develop the type of recognition that is essential to draw fans and big time
targeted recruits.
 
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pittbb80 said:
I’m not worried about Capel as a whole and still think he’ll do great things. But it is puzzling as to why some of these kids are picking programs like Illinois over Pittt where the coach and opportunity seem to be in Pitts advantage.
Click to expand...
Is it really that pu$$ling?
 
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