Why the Pitt win/PSU loss is so important for recruiting

[raleighpanther]

PSU fans are dismissing the outcome's impact on recruiting, focusing on the details of the game itself, and what recruits were thinking during and just after the game. But that focus is missing the point.

Here is why the PSU loss was bad for Franklin, and by extension, good for Pitt. In the off-season, there was lots of talk, articles, etc. about the fact that Franklin wasn't getting it done on the field, and how warm his seat might be getting. Well, it took only an hour after the game yesterday for Fox Sports to post an article titled, "Penn State coach James Franklin officially on the hot seat". Another article proposed 5 possible replacements for him. More will follow.

This will become part of the season long dialogue for Franklin. Expect to hear it every game, starting with the Michigan game (assuming PSU doesn't choke at home to Temple again). The announcers will likely discuss how hot his seat is as one of the games main topics, how Franklin doesn't have a decent win at PSU, and how desperately he needs to beat Michigan, etc.

Now, announcers are usually very supportive of coaches, and will probably say he doesn't deserve to be on the hot seat yet, he deserves another year, yada yada. I think he will be given another year, unless he totally tanks and wins only 2 or 3 games. But the issue will be discussed all season long.

Recruits will hear the hot seat discussion again and again, which is a deadly drain on recruiting efforts. No one with good options wants to commit to a program where the HC might get fired at the end of the season. Even if they think he'll be back next year, they know it will be a do-or-die year. Kids already verballed may start to take other visits as a back-up.

This will help Pitt with guys like Jeter and Wade. (BTW, just after the game, Wade posted a pic of himself in the new Pitt uniform with the word Tradition over it.) And again, it won't just be because Pitt won the game yesterday, it will be because that loss will lead to them repeatedly hearing over the next few months that Franklin might not have a job next year.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

This game also shows kids that Pitts Fb program can compete and is on the way up . Unlike the bb program that hardly ever gets kids to the NBA the Fb program has enough history with players making it to the NFL , but that's not enough , kids also want to play for winning programs. Now this was a great win ,but they need to keep improving and winning on the field which in turn will make winning recruiting battles easier. PSU is obviously Pitts biggest rival for talent ,but this victory helps them with everyone their recruiting .

 

[Jeffburgh]

I don't know that it is "huge." A blowout would have moved the needle more in that regard. They did come back and ended up showing a lot of heart. I would say it was more like it helped a bit.

PSU is PSU, they still have a very strong brand, regardless of coach. Even if JF gets "on the hot seat" they just are going to have an easier time recruiting than Pitt, because of the that panache they have, at least until Nards starts getting some hardware - coastal champion, ACC champion, some good bowl wins.

I thought Franklin would get more heat from the fan base with a loss, but again, the way the game played out plays into their unicorn type thinking, I went to BWI to get a pulse on it, and there are definitely some who are counting the days on him, but the take away from yesterday within the fan base is definitely moral victory.

I still think he will hit a point where the fan base turns on him.

 

[genooo]

The win gives credibility to the recruiting pitches.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I don't know that it is "huge." A blowout would have moved the needle more in that regard. They did come back and ended up showing a lot of heart. I would say it was more like it helped a bit.

PSU is PSU, they still have a very strong brand, regardless of coach. Even if JF gets "on the hot seat" they just are going to have an easier time recruiting than Pitt, because of the that panache they have, at least until Nards starts getting some hardware - coastal champion, ACC champion, some good bowl wins.

I thought Franklin would get more heat from the fan base with a loss, but again, the way the game played out plays into their unicorn type thinking, I went to BWI to get a pulse on it, and there are definitely some who are counting the days on him, but the take away from yesterday within the fan base is definitely moral victory.

I still think he will hit a point where the fan base turns on him.

I can't see a PSU fan ever feeling a loss to Pitt in Fb as a moral victory .

 

[cpc247]

Also it helps with national perception, style of play (for players that "fit"), ability to sell packed house (even though its not true).

I think this made a major impact for local guys vs recruits that don't know PITT Tradition (or recent lack there of) because this game had a big time college feel and that hasn't been around a lot in the past few coaching staffs.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I can't see a PSU fan ever feeling a loss to Pitt in Fb as a moral victory .

Well, they do. IT is all over BWI, and honestly fits into their unicorn thinking where the extra special experience of being a PSU fan makes everything more meaningful regardless of the actual outcome of the game.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Well, they do. IT is all over BWI, and honestly fits into their unicorn thinking where the extra special experience of being a PSU fan makes everything more meaningful regardless of the actual outcome of the game.

I guess that's where PSU football is right now because Pitt isn't The OSU . I'm sure one former coach would be rolling over in his grave if he knew his teams fans thought that losing to Pitt had any redeeming value.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I guess that's where PSU football is right now because Pitt isn't The OSU . I'm sure one former coach would be rolling over in his grave if he knew his teams fans thought that losing to Pitt had any redeeming value.

It is why Franklin made a concerted effort the whole week talking down the rivalry, to limit the blowback from a loss.

I have LONG said, being a Penn State fan, the sense of self importance is such to them that a 7 win season is like a 9 win season, an 8 win season is like a 10 win season, etc, because in their mind just being PSU is so special it makes it it like they win about 2 more games a season than they actually do.

Again, IMO, there IS going to come a day when they turn on Franklin, and had it been a blowout it might have been yesterday. But, the comeback was enough to let their heightened sense of self superiority kick in.

 

[HailToPitt725]

How dare you all try to negative recruit against Jimmy! Can't you see he doesn't like it?

No class at all.

 

[owljag]

It's worth highlighting how quick Jimmy was to throw his players under the bus for the game-deciding interception. Reminded me of when Jim Tracy managed the Pirates.

 

[shortball]

Jeffburgh....... I disagree completely with your recruiting assessment of Pitt verses Penn State. You mention the branding and how much easier it will be for State to recruit better talent over Pitt. You are living and dreaming in the dark ages back when State was a national contender. That was 10-12 years ago if not longer. Even Joe's last several years of coaching were just a cut above average. State has very limited relativity left in the power realm of college football programs. You are thinking like these high school kids are 25-30 years old. Most of these recruits were only early grade school kids and State had very limited impact on them what so ever. Today kids are looking for up beat programs and coaching. It's kind of like what have you done for me lately. State fans are still living in the past in their own little world of once was a national football power. Those days as mentioned are long gone and so are the recruits who use to view State in that respect. Narduzzi is a much better coach and brings so much more enthusiasm to the Pitt program. Pitt is on the rise while State is slowly dwindling into complete mediocrity. If Naduzzi stays at Pitt it is just a matter of a few more years and Pitt will totally overwhelm State in football. Just as another poster has pointed out this loss along with others like Ohio State, Michigan Mich State will only have the press putting him on the hot seat. Recruits will listen to this media coverage and start to develop a very negative image of the program.

 

[pfffiiit]

This game will only hurt PSU recruiting if their recruits are being told Pitt is just not "big league" enough for them. (and maybe they do then they look silly)

Otherwise, it will cut both ways "We need you to give us the extra bit needed" or "come and be part of these wins"

 

[PittMan2003]

PSU fans are dismissing the outcome's impact on recruiting, focusing on the details of the game itself, and what recruits were thinking during and just after the game. But that focus is missing the point.

Here is why the PSU loss was bad for Franklin, and by extension, good for Pitt. In the off-season, there was lots of talk, articles, etc. about the fact that Franklin wasn't getting it done on the field, and how warm his seat might be getting. Well, it took only an hour after the game yesterday for Fox Sports to post an article titled, "Penn State coach James Franklin officially on the hot seat". Another article proposed 5 possible replacements for him. More will follow.

This will become part of the season long dialogue for Franklin. Expect to hear it every game, starting with the Michigan game (assuming PSU doesn't choke at home to Temple again). The announcers will likely discuss how hot his seat is as one of the games main topics, how Franklin doesn't have a decent win at PSU, and how desperately he needs to beat Michigan, etc.

Now, announcers are usually very supportive of coaches, and will probably say he doesn't deserve to be on the hot seat yet, he deserves another year, yada yada. I think he will be given another year, unless he totally tanks and wins only 2 or 3 games. But the issue will be discussed all season long.

Recruits will hear the hot seat discussion again and again, which is a deadly drain on recruiting efforts. No one with good options wants to commit to a program where the HC might get fired at the end of the season. Even if they think he'll be back next year, they know it will be a do-or-die year. Kids already verballed may start to take other visits as a back-up.

This will help Pitt with guys like Jeter and Wade. (BTW, just after the game, Wade posted a pic of himself in the new Pitt uniform with the word Tradition over it.) And again, it won't just be because Pitt won the game yesterday, it will be because that loss will lead to them repeatedly hearing over the next few months that Franklin might not have a job next year.

Great point

 

[PittMan2003]

The comeback is all we hear about now. The cult and even their media henchman love controlling the message to soften the loss. that was a ballbeating and a failed comeback should not overshadow that fact. Pitt is the better team despite their 107k bullshit and all the other nonsense they throw out there.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

The primary reason that this game and other losses will hurt recruiting is simple.
Frankin is a bad coach, he's a BS artist, he's arrogant, and he cant take the heat when bad things happen and looks for people to blame. Responsible parents of athletes don't like this.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Jeffburgh....... I disagree completely with your recruiting assessment of Pitt verses Penn State. You mention the branding and how much easier it will be for State to recruit better talent over Pitt. You are living and dreaming in the dark ages back when State was a national contender. That was 10-12 years ago if not longer. Even Joe's last several years of coaching were just a cut above average. State has very limited relativity left in the power realm of college football programs. You are thinking like these high school kids are 25-30 years old. Most of these recruits were only early grade school kids and State had very limited impact on them what so ever. Today kids are looking for up beat programs and coaching. It's kind of like what have you done for me lately. State fans are still living in the past in their own little world of once was a national football power. Those days as mentioned are long gone and so are the recruits who use to view State in that respect. Narduzzi is a much better coach and brings so much more enthusiasm to the Pitt program. Pitt is on the rise while State is slowly dwindling into complete mediocrity. If Naduzzi stays at Pitt it is just a matter of a few more years and Pitt will totally overwhelm State in football. Just as another poster has pointed out this loss along with others like Ohio State, Michigan Mich State will only have the press putting him on the hot seat. Recruits will listen to this media coverage and start to develop a very negative image of the program.

You are living in your own little bubble.

The dark ages were 2014 (25th ranked recruiting class a year after the Sandusky scandal broke) , 2015 (the 15th ranked recruiting class) and 2016 (currently the 25 ranked class with JF looking shakey)?

We are trying to get to these "dark ages" relative to recruiting.

 

[Swervin27]

No recruit is going to let this game effect this decision. Maybe this loss by psu starts a downward spiral and some committed recruits abandon ship but that is still a few months away.

It was a good win for this program

 

[Pitt_Let_it_Ride]

You are living in your own little bubble.

The dark ages were 2014 (25th ranked recruiting class a year after the Sandusky scandal broke) , 2015 (the 15th ranked recruiting class) and 2016 (currently the 25 ranked class with JF looking shakey)?

We are trying to get to these "dark ages" relative to recruiting.

look at PSU's recruiting!! Shortball, you are delusional...

 

[TD_6082]

It's a great win for Pitt, and it should definitely keep positive momentum going for the program and recruiting as well.

However, I think you are setting yourselves up for a letdown if you think the loss, or any kind of hotseat talk is going to have much of a negative impact on PSU recruiting. Schools that are "all in" for football and that throw money around are rarely impacted by coaching changes in this day and age. Just look at the pressure and scrutiny around LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, or when Hoke was in trouble at Michigan, Tressel at tOSU, Richt at UGA last year etc. The negativity and coaching turnover was significant at PSU last year, and they still landed a Top 25 class.

A worst case scenario for those type of schools is when a coach leaves unexpectedly, and then poaches his class at his former school.

 

[steel_curtain]

It's a great win for Pitt, and it should definitely keep positive momentum going for the program and recruiting as well.

However, I think you are setting yourselves up for a letdown if you think the loss, or any kind of hotseat talk is going to have much of a negative impact on PSU recruiting. Schools that are "all in" for football and that throw money around are rarely impacted by coaching changes in this day and age. Just look at the pressure and scrutiny around LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, or when Hoke was in trouble at Michigan, Tressel at tOSU, Richt at UGA last year etc. The negativity and coaching turnover was significant at PSU last year, and they still landed a Top 25 class.

A worst case scenario for those type of schools is when a coach leaves unexpectedly, and then poaches his class at his former school.

-Both programs need to recruit instate talent better. Penn State's 2015 class that finished in the Top 15 in the country had a lot of PA recruits, they dominated that year with in state recruiting. In 2016 a lot of the instate talent was cherry picked. 2017 there is more balance, and Wade and Jeter are almost locks to staying instate.

-2018 is early still. But Notre Dame is once again coming into PA and plucking talent. We need that team to fail this year. I dont know what the big appeal is to Notre Dame over other tops schools but they are raiding PA. If Pitt locks down Jeter and Wade, that pendulum starts to swing to Pitt. We need to close these 2 for perception purposes a lone outside they can play football. Pitt is going to land Raines, and with these 3 in the fold dominoes could fall with getting Hooker, Buttes, Major and Doyle.

-Yesterdays win was a big one. There was a ton of talent at the game, against a rival, in a filled stadium, on National TV, and a game we won that was exciting on top of it. People noticed and so did recruits, it had recruiting impact.

 

[Pitt79]

Just this visuals appeals to high school kids, we have cool uniforms that kids would like, Penn State is mired in the '50s, lol

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Just this visuals appeals to high school kids, we have cool uniforms that kids would like, Penn State is mired in the '50s, lol

I hope the Nitters keep those uni's forever!
Their unis look like stuff they'd give inmates when they let the prison team out to play a few games!

 

[Jeffburgh]

Just this visuals appeals to high school kids, we have cool uniforms that kids would like, Penn State is mired in the '50s, lol

No doubt about that, I love the unis this year.

 

[MajorMajors]

I hope Penn State keeps those unis too. They look like practice uniforms.

Also hope they keep their coach, just because he harms their image with his demeanor and mouth.

But I don't think this exciting Pitt win affects recruiting significantly. Just 2 years ago, with James Friggin' Franklin as their coach, 11 four-star recruits went to PSU... PSU will always appeal to recruits - the traditional college campus out in the middle of nowhere; the big crowds at PSU, OSU, Mich and Mich State, supported by the Big Ten publicity machine -- these things are a draw for recruits...

Pitt will continue to have it's niche - and will continue to put great players into the NFL. With Coach Duzz, I think a top 20 team will be achieved and maintained in a couple more years, if not sooner.

Go Pitt.

 

[BanksvilleDave]

Franklin loses credibility with every game he coaches. His game plans are horrid. PSU had no clue what was happening for an entire half. Not a good situation for a team with a lowsy defense.

 

[pittengineer75]

We'll see if we get any recruiting bump out of it to see if was a win or not for the Pitt staff. Have not heard much from the 2017 players on the win.