Nearly team, every year in the college game loses players. The teams with a real program fill in the gaps and move on. Pitt returned a slew of players in the top 2 on the depth chart at every position including 7 linemen in their 5 th or 6 th years. This start suggests a real lack of talent depth, particularly at the offensive skill positions. What is this HC’s offensive brand? Aside from the occasional statement about wanting to be able to run the ball, who knows? His OCs have had widely varying offensive philosophies.. that’s no way to build an offensive brand and identity, which is what top offensive recruits look for in choosing a school. And beyond that no one expected Pitt to be able to beat FSU…but Cinci at home in one of the most inept offensive efforts ever?
Honest question about Narduzzi
- Thread starter NatronaHeightsPanther
- Start date
Except that's just dead wrong. The rankings you list were Pitt's peak AP rankings in each season. Pitt under Narduzzi has only FINISHED the season ranked twice--last year (22) and 2021 (13).
Now in fairness to Dooz, 2021 was the first time since 2009 that Pitt finished the season with a ranking, so he has done it twice in his tenure which is better than anyone since WLAT. And to be fair to the other coaches, it took him until his 7th season to finish ranked--nobody else was around anywhere near that long.
Last edited:
I ‘d readily accept a coach Narduzzi that scrutinized his results the last 8 years and readily accepted the visible weaknesses and flaws in his system and philosophies and made the appropriate changes. Most of the problems we see are the result of a HC refusing to adapt and change what hasn’t worked well enough. The OC hires and their widely differing g philosophies is a great place for Narduzzi to do some real soul searching….maybe the AD needs to give him a gentle nudge…this wouldn’t be micromanaging, just asking him to get better. No explains a QB in year 9 who couldn’t start at many div 2 schools. If the Duzz refuses to change, I just might be inclined to roll the dice….
I get this too, and that’s why I maintain frustration. I’m willing to see how they bounce back and see how the season progresses, and won’t deny that there may need to be some changes depending on what happens.
This is certainly the prudent and reasonable way to approach the current team and performance so far. However, pitchforks and torches are clearly the preferred route for some.
There's a reason there's so much coaching turnover. It's because most of them fail to meet expectations, whether reasonable or not. Pointing to a couple teams that caught lighting in a bottle is the same as the "Aaron Donald was a 3 star argument."
Who are you going to hire, and who is going to buy them out and hire the next coach? How many times are you willing to do this, and how often? Who is going to fund a coaching carousel until you find the next Gary Patterson?
IMO Narduzzi's Achilles' heel to this point has been his handling of the OC job. Instead of always trying to hire guys that will style the offense in Dooz's own image, he needs to find a good, creative OC and give him carte blanche to do whatever works best with the personnel at his disposal. He had that with Canada, and in fairness he wanted to keep him and tried hard to do so. Ed Orgeron did exactly that when he hired Joe Brady and those results speak for themselves.
Whipple he practically shoved out the door with both arms after literally the best offensive season in school history, and the best win loss season since the early 80s. After which he promptly started making idiotic comments about not running the ball enough etc.
I watched an interview with Dave Clawson where he stated that he can't win at Wake with the kinds of players he gets there by trying to line up toe to toe and square off with most P5 opponents. For him it's all about adapting structre to the personnel he has on the roster each year, and getting his individual playmakers the ball in space in as many ways as possible as many times as he can as opposed to using some rigid offensive structure and jamming square pegs into round holes.
Sounds simple but makes a lot of sense, and is proven to be effective as it was when Canada did that very thing in his one year at Pitt. It's true Pitt will never be able to overcome the talent disparity with the handful of heavyweight programs out there, and it's also true that we fans aren;t expecting to compete for NCs. But Pitt can at least try to get a lot more competitive with those programs if Dooz finds and sticks with the right kind of OC. I know they aren't easy to find, but they are out there, and highly successful smaller programs are a good place to look for them.
Recruit mid to low level 3*** and this is what you get....It all starts with his mediocre recruiting
OK, enough of that crap. Let's not make the Coastal as murderer's row.He is literally the second most winning coach in the ACC since he took over at Pitt.
Its like people are completely unaware of Pitt football's history over the four decades.
List of Pittsburgh Panthers head football coaches - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
EXCELLENT POST
its amazing to me how many pitt fans want to defend a 7-8 win program and justify everything away.
i highly doubt both Narduzzi AND Heather....are satisfied with this.
And yet....post after post....excuse after excuse.
Bottom line; This should be a top 25 program year in and year out. The benchmark to me, is 9 wins. That is realistic for this program with its strengths and weaknesses
We are getting nowhere near this level this year, and next year is # 10 under this HC.
twice in 9 years...we hit 9 + wins.
And that seems to be ok with many here.
Ok, then it must be coaching, which is what I have said for years. He is just not a good coach. You blue and gold glasses gang can't have it both ways. If it is not coaching, it is recruiting. If it's not recruiting its coaching.....
Relax Francis!
I will say we were out coached by Cincy but we are still 21-7 in our last 28 games! Let's see the season play out before you up your dosage.
That's just so incredibly stupid.
That's almost a guaranteed way to become non-competitive.
Yep, and I think a Canada type offense would be his ideal offense. It was run heavy but not like what we see now where literally every run is between the tackles. Canada also used RPO’s. I remember plenty of times peterman pulling the ball in hitting a TE down the middle..we don’t see that with this offense.
The big issue is you have to recruit well on the OL to run a form of Canada’s offense, and frankly I’m not sure they do it well enough to do that, let alone the pro style power run they do now.
It doesn’t have to be 9 wins every year. I want an AVERAGE of 8-4. The problem is that outside of one outlier 8-4 seems to be pat’s cap not the average
I recognize it's an inconvenient truth for you.
Honestly you have to have a good OL to run any kind of offense effectively.
To me the questions that need to be raised every year are: did the team play up to its potential and is the program improving or at the level of its potential.
I will not accept that Pitt can’t be a top 25 program. I’m not expecting miracles…national championships….but then again if teams like Cinci and TCU can reach the playoffs on occasion, why can’t Pitt, with a better FB tradition, do the same. Why can’t Pitt be ranked nearly every year in the top 25? That would require about 8- 9 wins, and with how weak the ACC is, that’s not asking too much.
The last 2 seasons were really ballyhooed but there are 2 factors as regards these 2 seasons and the factors which helped produce them which nag at me when I assess the state of the program. First, I don’t believe either team reached their full potential….Pitt lost 3 games in 2021 they should have won and two last year. So in a way both years were really missed opportunities. Second. As far as the last 2 years are concerned, the Covid related eligibility extensions significantly bolstered Pitt ‘s roster, and the same is true again this year. Where’s Pitt in 2021 without Pickett? Lots of super seniors on last year’s team too. Truth me told, the real rebuild begins next year so we better hold onto our hats!
Thevp
OK.
This is not to say he is beyond criticism.
Far from it.
I am saying this particular mindset is flat retarded.
You know how many 9 (or more) win seasons Pitt football had in the THIRTY THREE years between 1982 and when HCPN took over in 2015?
3.
Now, immediately after he wins 9 or more games the last two seasons, you talking about canning him because ... you believe the standard is 9 win seasons?
Additional point.
Those three 9 or more win seasons ... Wanny had two of them in row 08 and 09, won 8 games in 2010 and was run off.
How did that work out? (Not saying Wanny was super great, honestly, HCPN is a better coach by a good bit then he was. Just to the point that canning guys who actually reach the metric you are hoping to achieve usually ends up working out pretty poorly).
Since Sherrill jumped ship, they have had 10 head coaches.
7 of them never broke 9 wins.
Last edited:
In how many years of the last 4 decades was Pitt committed to FB? If the commitment still isn’t there then you may have a valid point; otherwise you’re starting off with a false premise.
NOPE.
Weak sauce.
They have a commitment BECAUSE OF HCPN.
He is the guy who came in and built the program up to get to where it is now because HE is committed to the program.
The only one close to him ... Wanny.
Point stands.
In fact you further make my point.
I have no problems with 2021. Some losses do happen though WMU was completely inexcusable.
Last year was inexcusable full stop.
Narduzzi hasn’t accomplished much more than several of his predecessors with more than three times the support they received. Pitt literally operated on a shoe string and paid lip service to FB the last 40 years . Anyone who uses the last 40 years to illustrate their view on what Pitt’s ceiling is as a program is complete.y off base. It’s like having a child with a 150 IQ and accepting c’s on their report because Those are the grades they received when they didn’t study and skipped class…devoid of logic!
The idea of bringing up the laat 40 years is a waste of time.
The metrics that matter are FAR more current.
Narduzzis tenure here
Our time off campus in a half empty venue
Membership in the ACC
Heather's time as AD
These metrics i think, are better measuring sticks for PN's body of work.
At the very least they are more current and reflective of CFB today.
And re-read my OP. I am NOT arguing we should can him. I am asking Pitt fans if after a lousy 2023 will his seat get warm in 24?
Most that answered believe no.....
What i believe is both PN AND HL expect more than 7-8 wins a year.
And....shes paying him 4 million per.
Ah ... no.
Your flaky attempt at some kind of analogy aside, two points:
1) This new support you tout is barely more than keeping up. While it is more than the program has had in the past, there are MANY more programs with more support. See the on going debate relative to SEC and B10 money advantage. See, the fact that there are about a half dozen other ACC programs with more resources, donations, bigger and more virulent fan bases, etc.
2) Again, HE MORE THAN ANYONE OR ANYTHING ELSE is responsible for the current valuation of the program, not the other way around. He followed up the Hayward / Graham debacles and the living embodiment of mediocrity that was Moose Lodge, brought fire, passion, energy, consistency and loyalty and a better product on the field to the program. He has the highest win % of any coach the program has seen since Gottfried.
The University invested in HIM ...
Thanks are due more than anything.
I don't agree that looking at the past is a waste of time.
The program is in a demonstratively better shape than it has been since Sherrill bolted.
Really is not debatable.
It is instructive that REPEATEDLY they have moved on from coaches (or coaches moved on from them) thinking there was more meat on the bone, and it wasn't until Paul Narduzzi accepted that job that has turned out to be the case.
One of the simplest ways of living a good life is not repeating past mistakes.
That said ... I would agree his and ADHL's bar is more than 7-8 wins.
Too many times under Doozi this team has come out for an early season home game as a favorite only to look unprepared, undisciplined, disorganized and overwhelmed. The Cinci game was just the latest episode. This is on the coaching, make no mistake about that. You can take the "the coaches aren't the ones out there making the mistakes" approach all day, but the talent level of players has nothing to do with them making a bunch unforced mental mistakes. That's a discipline and preparedness issue.
By the time the team got it's $hit together, they were down 27-7 in the third quarter. Again--that is squarely on the coaches.
You picked 2 outliers (Cincy & TCU) out of a group of about 50-60 schools. That should tell you how difficult it is to do.
8-9 wins isn't getting you ranked every year, it's more like 9-10 wins. That hasn't been done here consistently since a short stretch in the mid-late 70s and early 80s. So again, think about what you're asking and if it's as easy as you make it out.
Games you "should have won" means you lost. You can count a lot of losses as should have won, and a lot of wins as should have lost. The ball bounces both ways, you don't get to pick one.
100% on the coaches. Can't play a half of sh!t ball against many teams and win.
It's also on the coaches to have them ready in Morgantown Saturday night.
I like "his act" mostly, I enjoy people that just go off and say whatever the F they want to say, it reminds me of myself.
What I don't like is that I prefer a wide open, crazy ass, high scoring, air it out, up tempo college style offense and he doesn't.
I'll never forget 2018. We were blown out by PSU. But it got worse ... a couple weeks later we had a road game at UNC, and UNC was horrible that year. And we lost. ESPN had some sort of predictor, and after falling to UNC, it predicted us to lose every single game for the rest of the season. It was looking grim. Expected 2-10 record. What happened? We win our next 5 conference games to win the Coastal. Oh, and Watson was canned by the end of the year. Could this year play out similarly? Maybe that's wishful thinking.
Last edited:
Your core argument was that Pitt was deplorable for 40 years so be happy with mediocrity because that’s Pitt ‘s ceiling.. Now you’re disowning that illogic?
Keeping up is sufficient with the right people in place. There’s no problem at the moment with lack of support. This HC makes $4 m per year and I think the the main issue is that for a guy with level of comp, he loses too many games Pitt’s supposed to win…even the last 2 years, his best, bear this out. Stability is fine but complacency isn’t and a fear of making changes is part and parcel of complacency.
Wtf are you talking about?
They are coming off the best two year period in over for decades.
They've only won 9 or more 5 times in the last 40 years and 10+ only twice.
At least Pitt has a conference championship to show for it and was spared the embarrassment of a 65-7 beat down.
When Pitt's NIL money & financial support start to look like that of Alabama, UGA, USC, tOSU, Michigan, etc. it will start to get better recruits.
Until then, this is what you get regardless of your coaching staff or style of play.
I'd rather lose the championship game 65-7, than not go at all.
Similar threads
