Pitt Wrestling Program ..... some thoughts ......

[goalieman]

- I've followed the Pitt wrestling program since the 1960's (Rex Peery days) admittedly more peripherally for a while now.

- Rex made Pitt a national power with great teams and multiple national champions.

- I watched the Pitt vs Virginia Tech match last night and was really saddened at the depth to which the program appears to have fallen. I suspect Rex Perry may be rolling in his grave.

- The Coach is fired secondary to the poor judgement of some of his wrestlers, we forfeited the first two matches because of suspensions and apparently no one to take their place, and the overall talent looked to be at an all time low (although I admit the team is pretty young and some may improve and VT is a very good team with a lot of highly ranked wrestlers).

- However, with the great high school wrestling talent in PA/Ohio/NJ and to some extent MD/Virginia, we have the potential and should be a wrestling power !

- We are at a cross roads in the wrestling program with the need for a new coach ..... the administration needs to decide whether they want a top program or not .... it's there if they want it ..... it will require the right coach who can recruit top talent (it's within driving distance) and provide top notch workout partners for the wrestlers ..... it will require some facility upgrades ..... it obviously will require an increased financial backing but not an overwhelming amount IMO..... I hope the university decides to uplift the program !

 

[jctrack]

- I've followed the Pitt wrestling program since the 1960's (Rex Peery days) admittedly more peripherally for a while now.

- Rex made Pitt a national power with great teams and multiple national champions.

- I watched the Pitt vs Virginia Tech match last night and was really saddened at the depth to which the program appears to have fallen. I suspect Rex Perry may be rolling in his grave.

- The Coach is fired secondary to the poor judgement of some of his wrestlers, we forfeited the first two matches because of suspensions and apparently no one to take their place, and the overall talent looked to be at an all time low (although I admit the team is pretty young and some may improve and VT is a very good team with a lot of highly ranked wrestlers).

- However, with the great high school wrestling talent in PA/Ohio/NJ and to some extent MD/Virginia, we have the potential and should be a wrestling power !

- We are at a cross roads in the wrestling program with the need for a new coach ..... the administration needs to decide whether they want a top program or not .... it's there if they want it ..... it will require the right coach who can recruit top talent (it's within driving distance) and provide top notch workout partners for the wrestlers ..... it will require some facility upgrades ..... it obviously will require an increased financial backing but not an overwhelming amount IMO..... I hope the university decides to uplift the program !

Great post! You expressed what so many of us feel.

 

[mike412]

You are correct that it takes a financial commitment, but not an outrageously high one. VT was nothing in wrestling before hiring Tom Brands as coach. In one year, he put the program on the map. The facilities were upgraded and he brought in a 7 member top recruiting class. He left after one year to take the Iowa job, but the structure already was in place. VT made a smart hire, and although he took 2 or 3 of his recruits with him to Iowa, there was enough talent remaining to sustain them.
NC State made probably a faster and more remarkable turnaround, considering there is a dearth of local talent from which to recruit.
I don't think there is any other sport in which a program can be turned around faster -- and for less money -- than wrestling. The cost of the entire staff, including the HC, is less than hiring a coordinator in football. Upgrading a wrestling room and the other facilities is not like building a new stadium. Besides having assistant coaches to work out against, you need to attract a couple of quality graduated wrestlers who still wrestle competitively to train and workout there. If you have a good coach, that is not difficult. They then can wrestle in open matches as members of the wrestling club. Most schools, including Pitt, already have such clubs in place. They are who wrestlers who are redshirting compete for in open tournaments. Remember that although there are ten weight classes in college, you don't need to have great workout partners in every class. Wrestlers will workout with other wrestlers who are one or even two weights above or below them.
It is a question of will as much as of money.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

You are correct that it takes a financial commitment, but not an outrageously high one. VT was nothing in wrestling before hiring Tom Brands as coach. In one year, he put the program on the map. The facilities were upgraded and he brought in a 7 member top recruiting class. He left after one year to take the Iowa job, but the structure already was in place. VT made a smart hire, and although he took 2 or 3 of his recruits with him to Iowa, there was enough talent remaining to sustain them.
NC State made probably a faster and more remarkable turnaround, considering there is a dearth of local talent from which to recruit.
I don't think there is any other sport in which a program can be turned around faster -- and for less money -- than wrestling. The cost of the entire staff, including the HC, is less than hiring a coordinator in football. Upgrading a wrestling room and the other facilities is not like building a new stadium. Besides having assistant coaches to work out against, you need to attract a couple of quality graduated wrestlers who still wrestle competitively to train and workout there. If you have a good coach, that is not difficult. They then can wrestle in open matches as members of the wrestling club. Most schools, including Pitt, already have such clubs in place. They are who wrestlers who are redshirting compete for in open tournaments. Remember that although there are ten weight classes in college, you don't need to have great workout partners in every class. Wrestlers will workout with other wrestlers who are one or even two weights above or below them.
It is a question of will as much as of money.

Well stated, on all points.

 

[goalieman]

You are correct that it takes a financial commitment, but not an outrageously high one. VT was nothing in wrestling before hiring Tom Brands as coach. In one year, he put the program on the map. The facilities were upgraded and he brought in a 7 member top recruiting class. He left after one year to take the Iowa job, but the structure already was in place. VT made a smart hire, and although he took 2 or 3 of his recruits with him to Iowa, there was enough talent remaining to sustain them.
NC State made probably a faster and more remarkable turnaround, considering there is a dearth of local talent from which to recruit.
I don't think there is any other sport in which a program can be turned around faster -- and for less money -- than wrestling. The cost of the entire staff, including the HC, is less than hiring a coordinator in football. Upgrading a wrestling room and the other facilities is not like building a new stadium. Besides having assistant coaches to work out against, you need to attract a couple of quality graduated wrestlers who still wrestle competitively to train and workout there. If you have a good coach, that is not difficult. They then can wrestle in open matches as members of the wrestling club. Most schools, including Pitt, already have such clubs in place. They are who wrestlers who are redshirting compete for in open tournaments. Remember that although there are ten weight classes in college, you don't need to have great workout partners in every class. Wrestlers will workout with other wrestlers who are one or even two weights above or below them.
It is a question of will as much as of money.

Agree with you ...... the opportunity to elevate the wrestling program back to elite is there now right in front of us ....... hopefully the University will agree and get it done ...... long overdue !

 

[bwh05]

I agree that it wouldn't take a huge commitment financially. Money goes a lot further in wrestling than it does in football and basketball. Here's hoping we ante up.

 

[Piranha]

I admit that I am not a big amateur wrestling fan, but why doesn't the Pitt wrestling community get together and form a booster club specifically for wrestling? That could get the ball rolling and get the ear of the Chancellor and AD.

 

[mike412]

IMO there are no more dedicated (some might say crazed) fans than wrestling fans. Thom67, who posts here, has been to every or almost every NCAA tourney for more than 30 years. I go less frequently, but have been to at least a dozen.

The problem is that you have schools which have a large number of dedicated fans (Iowa) and schools which have a small number (Pitt). I'm not sure you could put together a booster program that would have an impact, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to try. What really is needed is one booster who has deep pockets and is willing to commit funds to the program.

 

[CrazyPaco]

The small number of dedicated fans is impressive considering the mediocrity of Pitt's program the last quarter century or more.

We've all seen the Field House filled up for wrestling. I think you can build a fan base at Pitt if the program takes off. It is definitely a sport I'd prioritize investing in if I was an AD.

 

[Dallas Burgher]

- I've followed the Pitt wrestling program since the 1960's (Rex Peery days) admittedly more peripherally for a while now.

- Rex made Pitt a national power with great teams and multiple national champions.

- I watched the Pitt vs Virginia Tech match last night and was really saddened at the depth to which the program appears to have fallen. I suspect Rex Perry may be rolling in his grave.

- The Coach is fired secondary to the poor judgement of some of his wrestlers, we forfeited the first two matches because of suspensions and apparently no one to take their place, and the overall talent looked to be at an all time low (although I admit the team is pretty young and some may improve and VT is a very good team with a lot of highly ranked wrestlers).

- However, with the great high school wrestling talent in PA/Ohio/NJ and to some extent MD/Virginia, we have the potential and should be a wrestling power !

- We are at a cross roads in the wrestling program with the need for a new coach ..... the administration needs to decide whether they want a top program or not .... it's there if they want it ..... it will require the right coach who can recruit top talent (it's within driving distance) and provide top notch workout partners for the wrestlers ..... it will require some facility upgrades ..... it obviously will require an increased financial backing but not an overwhelming amount IMO..... I hope the university decides to uplift the program !

Great post. This is just my wild guess but I think Pitt is going to start taking wrestling more seriously now. My reasoning is that this firing took place mid season and I have not seen that before in college wrestling.

Dare I hope!

 

[21Guns.]

Great post. This is just my wild guess but I think Pitt is going to start taking wrestling more seriously now. My reasoning is that this firing took place mid season and I have not seen that before in college wrestling.

Dare I hope!

Let's be honest. If a couple of wrestlers
didn't decide invite some girls they met online (when did they stop calling them hookers?) and ended up getting robbed he would still be the coach. Him not reporting what happened to the administration costed him his job.

 

[goalieman]

Let's be honest. If a couple of wrestlers
didn't decide invite some girls they met online (when did they stop calling them hookers?) and ended up getting robbed he still be the coach. Him not reporting what happened to the administration costed him his job.

True and if that was the case, they had to fire the coach ...... but we have to move forward and I look at this as an opportunity to upgrade the program .... it's time !

 

[Pantherguy4]

Right on, goalie an!!!!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

So this was basically the Pitt wrestling team in Evanston?

 

[Dallas Burgher]

Let's be honest. If a couple of wrestlers
didn't decide invite some girls they met online (when did they stop calling them hookers?) and ended up getting robbed he would still be the coach. Him not reporting what happened to the administration costed him his job.

That I didn't know know. Oops

 

[thom67]

IMO there are no more dedicated (some might say crazed) fans than wrestling fans. Thom67, who posts here, has been to every or almost every NCAA tourney for more than 30 years. I go less frequently, but have been to at least a dozen.

The problem is that you have schools which have a large number of dedicated fans (Iowa) and schools which have a small number (Pitt). I'm not sure you could put together a booster program that would have an impact, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to try. What really is needed is one booster who has deep pockets and is willing to commit funds to the program.

This year will be my 37th straight year attending the NCAA's. Are you going this year, Mike? I may have an extra ticket this year, not sure yet.

 

[goalieman]

So this was basically the Pitt wrestling team in Evanston?

LOL !!! ..... unfortunately, you may well be correct .... it's a risky business !

 

[goalieman]

This year will be my 37th straight year attending the NCAA's. Are you going this year, Mike? I may have an extra ticket this year, not sure yet.

WOW !! .... 37 years in a row is impressive.

 

[goalieman]

thom67 ....... any names of coaches that might be realistic for Pitt to hire as head coach for wrestling that would be a really good hire and might elevate the program (if the athletic department increases it's support and decides it wants to have a top wrestling program, of course) ?

 

[thom67]

thom67 ....... any names of coaches that might be realistic for Pitt to hire as head coach for wrestling that would be a really good hire and might elevate the program (if the athletic department increases it's support and decides it wants to have a top wrestling program, of course) ?

Years ago, a couple of us wrestling supporters went to the Pitt AD with 2 coaches who were multiple NCAA champs and Olympic gold mentalists who were interested in the job. We were told that Pitt was "fine" the way they were and showed no interest at all. Maybe now there is a change, but I doubt it. If Pitt is really interested, they would call Dan Gable and discuss who out there would be a good choice. If they wanted me to call Dan, I would be glad to. They need a former National champ who,has some coaching experience. A Coleman Scott would be perfect, but I do not know if he can coach. He sure could recruit in West PA. There are many former Iowa wrestlers out there who also would be good. Half of the Big 10 is coached by former Iowa wrestlers.

 

[bwh05]

From what I have heard, I think people will be happy with who we hire. We're going to pay enough to attract good candidates.

 

[goalieman]

Years ago, a couple of us wrestling supporters went to the Pitt AD with 2 coaches who were multiple NCAA champs and Olympic gold mentalists who were interested in the job. We were told that Pitt was "fine" the way they were and showed no interest at all. Maybe now there is a change, but I doubt it. If Pitt is really interested, they would call Dan Gable and discuss who out there would be a good choice. If they wanted me to call Dan, I would be glad to. They need a former National champ who,has some coaching experience. A Coleman Scott would be perfect, but I do not know if he can coach. He sure could recruit in West PA. There are many former Iowa wrestlers out there who also would be good. Half of the Big 10 is coached by former Iowa wrestlers.

Thanks for the thoughts !

 

[goalieman]

From what I have heard, I think people will be happy with who we hire. We're going to pay enough to attract good candidates.

That's good to hear, bwh05 ..... I hope the Athletic Department and Administration do what it takes to have an outstanding/big time wrestling program ...... very feasible and long overdue !

 

[Piranha]

Years ago, a couple of us wrestling supporters went to the Pitt AD with 2 coaches who were multiple NCAA champs and Olympic gold mentalists who were interested in the job. We were told that Pitt was "fine" the way they were and showed no interest at all. Maybe now there is a change, but I doubt it. If Pitt is really interested, they would call Dan Gable and discuss who out there would be a good choice. If they wanted me to call Dan, I would be glad to. They need a former National champ who,has some coaching experience. A Coleman Scott would be perfect, but I do not know if he can coach. He sure could recruit in West PA. There are many former Iowa wrestlers out there who also would be good. Half of the Big 10 is coached by former Iowa wrestlers.

Who were the 2 coaches at that time?

 

[thom67]

Who were the 2 coaches at that time?

Email me at thombett@aol.com. Rather not put it on the board.

 

[goalieman]

From what I have heard, I think people will be happy with who we hire. We're going to pay enough to attract good candidates.

bwh05 ...... any word on the time line for hiring a new coach ..... we have the interim co-head coaches until the end of the season ..... I think the NCAA National Wrestling Tournament which ends the season is 3/16/17-3/18/17 and the late signing date (LOI) for wrestling starts 4/12/17 ...... as I recall, we signed 5 wrestlers for next year in the early signing period (11/16) ..... not sure where the number of scholarships available, if any, stand ...... should we expect a new coach late 3/17 or early 4/17 ???

 

[bwh05]

You won't see anything until after nationals as far as an announcement, but I guess several coaches have already reached out to us about the job. I think you'll see someone named in mid March.

 

[goalieman]

You won't see anything until after nationals as far as an announcement, but I guess several coaches have already reached out to us about the job. I think you'll see someone named in mid March.

Sounds good .....thanks again for the information !

 

[21Guns.]

LOL !!! ..... unfortunately, you may well be correct .... it's a risky business !

They had their Fred Primus moment.

 

[mike412]

This year will be my 37th straight year attending the NCAA's. Are you going this year, Mike? I may have an extra ticket this year, not sure yet.

Now that I have remarried, my NCAA Championship visits may be over. If we are going to go somewhere for 3 or 4 days, it will not be so I can sit in a gym watching a multitude of wrestling matches simultaneously. And I don't think St Louis in March is high on her list of vacation spots.

Also, I have tried to go in years where Pitt was strong and/or there was a particular wrestler or wrestlers I wanted to see: Schalles when he was at Clairton, Santoro, Dake vs Taylor, etc. Frankly, there is no wrestler this year in that category.

We are going to Thailand for two weeks next week and then to China for 20 days in May. In between, we are going to Puerto Vallarta from March 21-28. That is right after the tourney and it probably would be too much traveling in too short a period.

Thanks for the offer though. I think this is the second time you have offered a ticket and I have had to decline.

If you check my avatar, which is a photo of us in Barcelona, she is smiling and happy. I like to keep it that way.

 

[mike412]

The small number of dedicated fans is impressive considering the mediocrity of Pitt's program the last quarter century or more.

We've all seen the Field House filled up for wrestling. I think you can build a fan base at Pitt if the program takes off. It is definitely a sport I'd prioritize investing in if I was an AD.

If we could get 10% of the HS wrestlers in the WPIAL and their dads to attend the matches, we would fill the Field House.

 

[Pantherguy4]

If we could get 10% of the HS wrestlers in the WPIAL and their dads to attend the matches, we would fill the Field House.

A PA state wrestling champion worked for me! He knew I was a Pitt guy and he told me he wanted to wrestle for Pitt but Penn State (where he ended up) just pushed for him more!

 

[thom67]

I I would like to see Taylor or Dake be our next coach. Recruiting would not be an issue. I do not know if either is ready to be a head coach. Neither would soon be offered a head coaching job at their own school.

 

[Pantherguy4]

I I would like to see Taylor or Dake be our next coach. Recruiting would not be an issue. I do not know if either is ready to be a head coach. Neither would soon be offered a head coaching job at their own school.

That is a great idea!

 

[bwh05]

I I would like to see Taylor or Dake be our next coach. Recruiting would not be an issue. I do not know if either is ready to be a head coach. Neither would soon be offered a head coaching job at their own school.

They're not going to give the job to a 25 year old. I would hope we can find someone with a great pedagree who has head coaching experience.

 

[mehinpgh]

They're not going to give the job to a 25 year old. I would hope we can find someone with a great pedagree who has head coaching experience.

Any possibility to spend money on a Dake or Taylor as associate head coach/recruiter? Seems like salaries are pretty low for assistants in college wrestling...throwing an extra $50k at one of those guys might get them in the door, at least for a couple years, but at that point it won't matter because we would have a great base of talent in the room.

 

[thom67]

Yes you are correct. You would not want to give the job to someone 26 years old. Not like Iowa did when they hired Dan Gable with almost no coaching experience at all. He only won 19 NCAA championships at Iowa. There are not many good coaches out there that have head coaching experience at a major program. Taylor would have great recruiting contacts both in PA(because of PSU) and Ohio(he is from Ohio). Recruiting is the key to a major program.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

I dont post to the wrestling board but I read it all the time having a wrestled at the youth, HS, and college ( small NAIA) school in the early 70's.
You guys do a good job keeping people up to date. We live 300 miles away so wife and I do want to get to a PITT match one day. They do wrestle Lehigh which is close so maybe we'll do that.

A note on recruiting. Our kids wrestled in PA's Eastern District 11 /Lehigh Valley which is one of the best in the state/nation including teams like:
Big HS's
___________________
Northhampton HS
Easton HS
Bethlehem Catholic HS
Nazareth HS
Liberty HS
Parkland HS
Freedom HS
Whitehall HS
Emaus HS

These schools have churned out many PA team titles, and tons of state champions including Nationally ranked teams.

In fact in the early 2000's one of our sons was on a PA State Championship team ranked Top 5 in the nation that year.

When it comes to PITT recruiting I've cant remember seeing a PITT guy at the eastern camps teaching the kids or just working with the kids.The only PITT guy was Santora when he was at Lehigh.
Our kids went to alot of camps including the Lockhaven, East Strousburg, Lehigh, Bethlehem Cath. etc camps and there's always Penn St, Lehigh, BIG 10 , Bloomsburg, East Stroudsburg, North Carolina St, North Carolina, Okaloma St, Ivy leauge guys, etc people there for the kids to get to know!

Its important to be at or conduct youth and HS camps especially in eastern PA (lots of great wrestlers) to get the wrestlers interested in a college or U.

Alot of the eastern wrestlers get hooked on Lehigh or Penn St very early. Although Oklahoma St, Oklahoma, Iowa, other BIG 10 schools, North Carolina St, North Carolina, Ivies, scoop up wrestlers too.

Just a thought and a suggestion!

 

[thom67]

You are correct. Pitt has not recruited well since the early Dave Adams years. We have not had the contacts, the money, or the excitement of a name coach to attract national type recruits. When we have recruited that type of wrestler, we either got lucky or the wrestlers brought baggage. Our last good recruiting class showed the latter. Pat Santoro and Keith Gavin were the former.

 

[mike412]

I would prefer Dake to Taylor just because I don't like the idea of a former PSU wrestler being our coach. I don't know if either has done any recruiting. I guess them just being at the school means you are going to attract good kids at 157 through 184. To me, Dake was the more sound technical wrestler and therefore probably a better teacher. Taylor was a pinning machine -- a freak -- and I'm not sure how that translates into teaching others.