Robert Morris is raising $50 million to build a new basketball arena
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No, it would draw flies.
Think of the issues the football team has competing with the Steelers. Except the hockey team would be starting from scratch, where as at least the football team has some tradition to promote.
Think of the issues the football team has competing with the Steelers. Except the hockey team would be starting from scratch, where as at least the football team has some tradition to promote.
Re: Ding, ding......
I'd say the most glaring academic need is financial aid to offset one of the nation's highest public tuition rates and one of the nation's lowest rates of public financial support. There are tremendous fiscal challenges, and that is why Pitt has recently shut down 100+ year old graduate programs in the humanities and the Titusville campus is hanging on by a thread. Just maintaining the gains it has made over the past 20 years is a major challenge because it is competing against much stronger peers than it was 20 years ago.
I'd say the most glaring academic need is financial aid to offset one of the nation's highest public tuition rates and one of the nation's lowest rates of public financial support. There are tremendous fiscal challenges, and that is why Pitt has recently shut down 100+ year old graduate programs in the humanities and the Titusville campus is hanging on by a thread. Just maintaining the gains it has made over the past 20 years is a major challenge because it is competing against much stronger peers than it was 20 years ago.
Paco - Thanks for the carification. My info is based on what is publicly released by the Provost's office, so I'm sure it is generalized. You are literally on the ground and have visibility in much greater detail. The loss of R&D funding is hurting in many ways. A very good friend who is/was an endowed researcher at Pitt for over 25 years, was recently wooed to the University of Louisville. From what he shared, Louisville is investing a whole lot of $$ into becoming more like Pitt, so there was the challenge of basically creating from new, but he also said like you, that funding has dried up and has begun to negatively influence his day-to-day work. If the talent in Oakland starts leaving it could have massive implications moving forward.
Define "some." Of course, "some" people do. Can you point me to any Pitt Engineering or Chemistry message boards? Pretty sure Pitt football has far more FANS.
There are no messageboards that I'm aware of, but those people donate a shit load more money to the university than the football fans.
Do they? Paco???
I could be wrong but I thought I saw something (maybe on this message board) where the actual alumni giving rate to the university was actually very low compared to our peers and that our huge endowment was a factor of 2 things:
1. big corporate gifts
2. time in the market (Pitt is older than most of its peers and already had an established endowment)
Again, I could be wrong but I was under the impression that your average Pitt engineer or chemist is NOT giving more than your average Pitt alum football fan.
Ether: there's only about 20 profitable athletic departments. Browse the list and it'll be apparent quickly why Pitt will never be one of them. I think it's better to focus on more realistic goals.
SMF: A large, modern, mixed-use plaza with housing and retail in a centralized location would draw far more students than a stadium.
*cough* Pittsburgh Athletic Club property *cough*
That club will die with the babyboomers.
But to be honest, I don't really care. I have some thinly researched opinions on what's best for the university, Oakland, and the region, but I'm not really emotionally involved since I'm never there. They can do what they want with their campus.
SMF: A large, modern, mixed-use plaza with housing and retail in a centralized location would draw far more students than a stadium.
*cough* Pittsburgh Athletic Club property *cough*
That club will die with the babyboomers.
But to be honest, I don't really care. I have some thinly researched opinions on what's best for the university, Oakland, and the region, but I'm not really emotionally involved since I'm never there. They can do what they want with their campus.
Re: Ding, ding......
The thing to keep in mind is that lots of schools are trying to be like Pitt. When you are sitting in the top 5 of all health science research institutions in the US, everyone is shooting for you. Schools especially look to model Pitt's meteoric rise over the last 20 years. The problem with that is Pitt was very fortuitous to make some very forward thinking decisions at the right place and the right time. Pitt had the trifecta of Thomas Detre, Mark Nordenberg, and Jeff Romoff...you could throw in Arthur Levine too ...leading Pitt into the forefront of managing academic medicine that was way out in front of the rest of country at a time when NIH funding essentially doubled. They essentially reinvented the administration of academic medicine, which has now been copied throughout academia.
But Pitt had $420 million in NIH funding coming in last year...maintaining its competitiveness (5th most) in a era where NIH funding has dried up making it substantially more competitive to obtain. Louisville pulled in $46 million (106th). UL can spend all the money they want. They're in no danger of cracking the top 50. UConn is doing the same thing (and is around the same place). It is a terrible time to be investing in bioscience research from an institutional point of view.
It's natural for researches to move to other institutions as the climb the ladder...take a chair or some more advanced position. It would be strange for someone to leave Pitt for Louisville for a lateral position without something else going on.
The thing to keep in mind is that lots of schools are trying to be like Pitt. When you are sitting in the top 5 of all health science research institutions in the US, everyone is shooting for you. Schools especially look to model Pitt's meteoric rise over the last 20 years. The problem with that is Pitt was very fortuitous to make some very forward thinking decisions at the right place and the right time. Pitt had the trifecta of Thomas Detre, Mark Nordenberg, and Jeff Romoff...you could throw in Arthur Levine too ...leading Pitt into the forefront of managing academic medicine that was way out in front of the rest of country at a time when NIH funding essentially doubled. They essentially reinvented the administration of academic medicine, which has now been copied throughout academia.
But Pitt had $420 million in NIH funding coming in last year...maintaining its competitiveness (5th most) in a era where NIH funding has dried up making it substantially more competitive to obtain. Louisville pulled in $46 million (106th). UL can spend all the money they want. They're in no danger of cracking the top 50. UConn is doing the same thing (and is around the same place). It is a terrible time to be investing in bioscience research from an institutional point of view.
You are talking about grafting three new academic, 6 to 9 story buildings onto an existing 81K seat stadium at a tune of $400 million. A school that makes Pitt...not just the athletic department...look like a pauper.
First, you'd need a time machine to go back and save Pitt Stadium. Then you'd need to close a bunch of roads running through the metro area's largest and most important medical complex. Then you'd have to raise the $300-$400million. And then you have to raise money to actually renovate the athletic part of Pitt Stadium, a campaigns that failed in the 80s and 90s.
If you do find a time machine, skip the stadium step and just go back to 1938 and keep Jock from being pushed out.
They will never take down the Pittsburgh Athletic Club...too historic...architecturally a gem. Pitt would be extremely fortunate to ever acquire it like they did the Masonic Temple (now Alumni Hall) or the University Club.
The club, btw, is trying to build a hotel on its rear parking lot (not the former Syria Mosque parking lot owned by UPMC, but the lot between that and the club). So, it is looking for alternative revenue to keep it going.
Well, I do follow all university news because everything impacts everything else in the institution. If the med school is hurting, you don't think that puts financial pressure on the other units? And that is actually happening.
Message boards, yeah, there is a Pitt one with an academic focus over at College Confidential. There are also general boards at the Chronicle of Higher Ed. Not exactly what you are talking about, but there are also multiple Pitt university publications. And yes, large donations (100Ks to millions) tend to be more numerous for academic /research endeavors.
Yeah, they do in general. That's why you see so many more press releases about million dollar donations for things like scholarships, chairs, and research institutions than you do about athletics.
What was the largest single athletic donation you can think of? Petersen's $10 million for the Pete? How's that compare to Dietrich's $125 million donation or Swanson's $41 million donation?
The % of undergrad alumni that donate back to Pitt though is only around 10%, which is pathetic compared to peers. That is donations to anything, of any amount, including athletics.
Pitt's endowment is large, yes, in part because of historic foundational and corporate donations. I wouldn't necessarily say due to age, though, because while Pitt is over 225 years old, it really struggled financially until...well...about 15 years ago. Endowments do not necessarily correlate to fiscal solvency. Remember Pitt almost went bankrupt in the 1960s. In the mid-19th Century it actually suspended operations for a few years.
The money in any endowment is legally protected from being dipped into, and less than 5% of the total principal comes through in any one year as usable funding, and a large portion of that is legally restricted to donor-intended purposes. At Pitt, you are talking about $130 million per year from the $3 billion endowment....that has to fund a lot of things, by law, for a student body and research infrastructure that is a lot bigger than many of the other large endowment universities. Additionally, when you compare the millions Pitt is behind peers in public support from their respective states, the financial advantage of the endowment dissipates rapidly. The bottom line is operating revenue and expenses...and the annual disbursements from the endowment provides only something like the 6th largest source of revenue for Pitt.
But as far as how it was built, remember Pitt had some pretty significant early 20th century alumni as well, like Andrew and Thomas Mellon. If it were built today, the Cathedral of Learning would be likely be called Mellon Hall. Pitt's fortunate to be located in a city were a lot of 19th century wealth resulted in many 20th century foundations. But Pitt has also done a fantastic job managing the endowment, and that can't be discounted either.
This post was edited on 4/16 8:35 PM by CrazyPaco
How on earth could you do 40-50 high school games a year? You would literally have to play 4 games a week along with Pitt games?
Again, I doubt if SRU didn't let the football stadium be used, Pitt wouldn't either.
As far as major league lacrosse, no thanks. MLS is intriguing, but you have to really have natural grass for high quality soccer. IF you can guarantee that along with the stadium, it might be feasible. That said, I doubt MLS would be thrilled with a 40-50 K seat stadium that is going to be half full as they are making a big move towards soccer only stadiums.
take a poll of how much the smf donates toPitt. If its over zero you ae wrong. All talk all knowing alldemanding and he buys his tix to the Youngstown game on stub hum because its only 3 bucks. Thats his investment. And people buy his BS. The worst of the haters. As long as someone else is footing the billhe hashas all the dreams. invest himself and he is long gone.
You'd have to get creative. There are 9 weeks of a HS football season. You can do a Thursday night game every week. A Friday night doubleheader (5:30 and 8:30 games) and then Saturday games when Pitt's on the road or off. That's another 5-6 games or more if you do doubleheaders. Throw in an all-day 4 game AAAA/AAA semifinal day and heck maybe even an AA/A semifinal day on a Friday or Sunday and some City League games here and there and you could have 40-50 games.
My idea for a stadium would also involve "the home of the WPIAL." Kinda like how the Barclays Centers always has random college basketball games going on that they market as "Brooklyn Hoops" and "NYC's home for college basketball," I would try to do the same thing for the WPIAL at the new stadium. It wouldn't just be Pitt's stadium. It would have events there all the time.
Major League Lacrosse, I just threw in there. Don't know enough about it but Pittsburgh seems to be the kind of gritty town that would like that kind of sport. MLS would be very very tough here but with the right plan and financing, it could be worth a shot. Bottom line, you have to think big.
It's expensive to open the doors to a stadium. First of all, how many high schools are going to give up a home game to play in Oakland? Giving up that home game might result in that team watching the playoffs, instead of playing in them. Who's going to foot the bill for the expense of opening the stadium for games that are going to draw a few thousand people at most. Parking in Oakland is a nightmare. This isn't the 1930's, when the crowds all came by streetcars. The streetcars ran frequently, and people were used to riding them because most folks didn't have a car. People who drive everywhere aren't getting on a bus, and being bothered with having to transfer. Where will the stadium go? It ain't going in South Oakland. As rundown as South Oakland is, it provides a ton of housing for Pitt students, and a ton of tax revenue for a cash strapped city. You might have found space for it up on the hilltop, if this was planned 15 years ago, but that area has been totally rebuilt now, so it's too late. Schenley Park? You better read the agreements made between the city, and Mary Schenley. While you might think it would be easy to override any restrictions, you better believe that there are powerful people who don't care about Pitt football, who would fight tooth and nail against any attempt to put a stadium in the park. Once you start talking about 2nd Avenue, you might as well keep playing on the North Side.
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