Seven ACC schools working together to break Grant of Rights

[Las Panteras]

Talking about Clemson and some of the other schools it could very easily be more about restricting their primary competition from have a large portion of the markets. Do you think the SEC would really prefer A B1G Clemson team over extending them an invitation? Do you think they'd want the B1G to have the #2 and #3 Florida schools instead of taking one of the two (likely FSU) and maintaining dominance in the #3 most populous state with a growing population? The B1G just grabbed 2 schools in California, do you really think they wouldn't be interested in a top 20 revenue generating school in that state (FSU)?

If this comes down to two super conferences, expansion will be as much about preventing incursions as it will be about expanding markets.

I agree with this. I also agree with the other side of thos coin....meaning....the SEC not taking Clemson likely diminishes Clemson's brand to the point they become irrelevant. If the SEC takes UNC they now essentially "surround and suffocate" a Clemson into mediocrity.

Yea they have a solid program and fan base. I would argue its very local in nature

I personally do not see the allure of a Clemson, and i think your thought is equally as correct.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What happened ten years ago has zero relevance to how anyone would value a school today. Missouri was brought in because they also brought in two good sized TV markets under the old subscription model. Using your logic, Boston College would be a far better choice.

Tons and tons of money to be made on cable TV and probably for the next 30 years. UVa brings DC every bit as much, if not more, than Mizzou brings StL and KC and Rutgers/NYC. Cable is going to be around for the rest of our lifetimes.

 

[pittmeister]

Talking about Clemson and some of the other schools it could very easily be more about restricting their primary competition from have a large portion of the markets. Do you think the SEC would really prefer A B1G Clemson team over extending them an invitation? Do you think they'd want the B1G to have the #2 and #3 Florida schools instead of taking one of the two (likely FSU) and maintaining dominance in the #3 most populous state with a growing population? The B1G just grabbed 2 schools in California, do you really think they wouldn't be interested in a top 20 revenue generating school in that state (FSU)?

If this comes down to two super conferences, expansion will be as much about preventing incursions as it will be about expanding markets.

The TV networks will determine if adding a certain team will increase their payouts. If they determine that Clemson doesn’t move the needle, then it won’t happen.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Tons and tons of money to be made on cable TV and probably for the next 30 years. UVa brings DC every bit as much, if not more, than Mizzou brings StL and KC and Rutgers/NYC. Cable is going to be around for the rest of our lifetimes.

It's not about markets anymore, it's about brands, matchups, and number of fanboys (for future a la carte streaming). Cable is dying, faster than anyone could have imagined. They are all losing subscribers rapidly. Even MVPDs are struggling with subscribers as Youtube TV is the only MVPD that added subscribers in Q1, the others all lost subscribers.

Cord-Cutting Hits All-Time High in Q1, as U.S. Pay-TV Subscriptions Fall to Lowest Levels Since 1992

Cord-cutting hit a new peak in Q1 2023, as U.S. cable, satellite and internet TV services collectively lost 2.3 million subscribers.

variety.com

 

[HailToPitt725]

It's not about markets anymore, it's about brands, matchups, and number of fanboys (for future a la carte streaming). Cable is dying, faster than anyone could have imagined. They are all losing subscribers rapidly. Even MVPDs are struggling with subscribers as Youtube TV is the only MVPD that added subscribers in Q1, the others all lost subscribers.

Cord-Cutting Hits All-Time High in Q1, as U.S. Pay-TV Subscriptions Fall to Lowest Levels Since 1992

Cord-cutting hit a new peak in Q1 2023, as U.S. cable, satellite and internet TV services collectively lost 2.3 million subscribers.

variety.com

Yup. That’s why I think North Carolina is just as safe as Clemson, Florida State, and Miami. The Big Ten/SEC likely see the potential for that basketball brand to translate to football.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It's not about markets anymore, it's about brands, matchups, and number of fanboys (for future a la carte streaming). Cable is dying, faster than anyone could have imagined. They are all losing subscribers rapidly. Even MVPDs are struggling with subscribers as Youtube TV is the only MVPD that added subscribers in Q1, the others all lost subscribers.

Cord-Cutting Hits All-Time High in Q1, as U.S. Pay-TV Subscriptions Fall to Lowest Levels Since 1992

Cord-cutting hit a new peak in Q1 2023, as U.S. cable, satellite and internet TV services collectively lost 2.3 million subscribers.

variety.com

Thanks for proving my point. A shit ton of people still have cable and cable substitutes.....and always will. Markets matter a ton. Markets = fans and potential fans. UVa is a state school in a populated state. They will be in the SEC or Big Ten. Guaranteed.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yup. That’s why I think North Carolina is just as safe as Clemson, Florida State, and Miami. The Big Ten/SEC likely see the potential for that basketball brand to translate to football.

The safe rankings are

1. UNC
2. FSU
3. Clemson (FSU and Clemson are safe but have to contend with UF and SCar blocking their SEC bids)
4. Miami
5. Virginia
6. NC State
7. VT

 

[fedman]

They parked their garbage programs in our conferences and didn't have to affiliate in football. That's being used and abused. Better study logic yourself.

Oh, I did not realize that Notre Dame put all the ACC presidents and Swofford in a room and held them at gun point until they agree to allow ND to park "their garbage programs" in the conference, but football would remain independent.

I was under the impression that Notre Dame was courted by the ACC. That the ACC gladly allowed ND to join as a non-football member, because the five yearly games with Notre Dame increased the media contract at the time and improved the ACC bowl lineup.

I was also under the impression that Notre Dame has lived up to the terms in the contract agreed to by the ACC.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Old Big East-ish

Pitt
Temple
Syr
BC
Wake
Duke
GT
USF
FAU
WVU
Cincy
UCF

That is a million times more appetizing to me than playing BYU, Texas Tech, Baylor, and Kansas.

Christ your ideas are horrendous

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Thanks for proving my point. A shit ton of people still have cable and cable substitutes.....and always will. Markets matter a ton. Markets = fans and potential fans. UVa is a state school in a populated state. They will be in the SEC or Big Ten. Guaranteed.

We know you're terrible at business and anything related to making money. You don't need to continue proving it.

 

[HOF Coach]

We know you're terrible at business and anything related to making money. You don't need to continue proving it.

SMF had this idea stolen from him by Heinz because he was too busy arguing on this message board to patent it:

 

[CCHS82]

There is no reason the ACC can not be the third conference left standing.

But...
they need to be proactive and make moves now. Grab the largest TV markets avaialable from remaining Big 12 an d PAC teams. The ACC needs to take steps to dismantle those leagues. That needed done yesterday.

Mega East- West conference emerges. Worry less about immediate share and more about long term survival.

Sometimes, the best move is to be the aggressor and go for it! Set your own destiny!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Christ your ideas are horrendous

That league would suck but I have no interest at all in being in a league with Texas junior colleges, BYU, Iowa State, etc. They may be better at football but I'd rather go 10-2 in a new Big East than lose in Texas.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

We know you're terrible at business and anything related to making money. You don't need to continue proving it.

Are you people honestly saying UVa will be left behind? Really? There is no chance of that. The state of Virginia and a slice of the DC market matters a great deal. We can debate which is more desirable VT or UVa but surely, the SEC and B10 are going to split them.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Are you people honestly saying UVa will be left behind? Really? There is no chance of that. The state of Virginia and a slice of the DC market matters a great deal. We can debate which is more desirable VT or UVa but surely, the SEC and B10 are going to split them.

Just like rutgers in NYC, no one in DC cares about UVA

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

In ten years, the scenario will be the same:

The schools in the best position to leave are:

1. Notre Dame - Big Market
2. North Carolina - New Market


3. Virginia - Don’t bring a lot, but new market

That’s it folks!

Clemson - They’re not even the most popular team in South Carolina. SEC doesn’t need them… Brings nothing that South Carolina already has. Overrated.

NCST, VT, WF, Duke: North Carolina is the big prize. Everyone else listed doesn’t bring much to a conference but another mouth to feed:

Miami, FSU: SEC already has Florida who is the top dog. These two doesn’t move the needle much for the Big Ten to take.

Pitt, GT: Two city schools who already overshadowed by bigger schools in their state. Does bring much to move the needle in the Big Ten or SEC.

Syracuse, BC, Louisville: Oh please. They aren’t even household names in their own household…

As Chris mentioned in today’s Morning Pitt, at some point the big boys in both conferences will leave and form their own conference leaving teams like Vanderbilt, Purdue and other bottom feeders behind.

That's just it. Pitt and Georgia Tech. Both are good schools that academically would fit in any conference. And both have much more history than most P5 conference teams. But...they are landlocked city schools who really aren't going to grow the sport.

 

[DruidTM]

The big FACT is Florida State and Clemson would be gone already if there was a legal way to get out of that contract all the ACC teams signed a few years ago. What the conference should be doing is trying to add teams that would bring something to the conference. They should already be talking to Oregon, Washington. The ACC is never proactive, they sit back and wait, then try to do damage control. There is zero doubt in my mind that college football will be paid for view within the next 10 years, same with all Pro Sports, streaming is the way of the future, hell the NFL is doing it this year for of the playoff games. The ACC should go to Notre Dame and say if join the ACC for all sports, we will let you keep your NBC contract for all your home games, and you will be apart of our deal for everything else. You might get them to bite on that because if they go to 3 super conferences Notre Dame will be forced to join one of them and lose their own deal. Just a thought .

I don’t know about never proactive

They took VT, Miami and BC when we were in the Big East. Then later of course PITT Cuse….

It’s just … here we are…. Again

Time to “check facts” …. Again “not pleased”

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Are you people honestly saying UVa will be left behind? Really? There is no chance of that. The state of Virginia and a slice of the DC market matters a great deal. We can debate which is more desirable VT or UVa but surely, the SEC and B10 are going to split them.

You switched to UVA when you realized it was ridiculous to continue discussing VT. I explained that cable was dying and increased regional subscription fees won't be driving any future decisions on expansion.

Matchups (for ratings and advertising $) and number of fanboys (willing to pay for streaming/ppv) will drive future revenue. B10 has 8 out of the largest 10 alumni bases in the country. Rutgers is #8, which is why I said they are arguably more valuable than Virginia Tech.

B10 has the fanboys and the SEC has good football. That's what is driving their value, not location.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Just like rutgers in NYC, no one in DC cares about UVA

Definitely some similarities though I would say Rutgers doesnt deliver NYC at all (it does deliver a small piece of NJ). UVa delivers a small piece of DC and a "medium-sized" piece of the state of Virginia, which has 8.6 million people.

You switched to UVA when you realized it was ridiculous to continue discussing VT. I explained that cable was dying and increased regional subscription fees won't be driving any future decisions on expansion.

Matchups (for ratings and advertising $) and number of fanboys (willing to pay for streaming/ppv) will drive future revenue. B10 has 8 out of the largest 10 alumni bases in the country. Rutgers is #8, which is why I said they are arguably more valuable than Virginia Tech.

B10 has the fanboys and the SEC has good football. That's what is driving their value, not location.

So are you telling me that Virginia will not be getting a B10 or SEC invite? Yes or no.

 

[pittchagg]

You switched to UVA when you realized it was ridiculous to continue discussing VT. I explained that cable was dying and increased regional subscription fees won't be driving any future decisions on expansion.

Matchups (for ratings and advertising $) and number of fanboys (willing to pay for streaming/ppv) will drive future revenue. B10 has 8 out of the largest 10 alumni bases in the country. Rutgers is #8, which is why I said they are arguably more valuable than Virginia Tech.

B10 has the fanboys and the SEC has good football. That's what is driving their value, not location.

Pitt has more living alumni than all of the seven schools except for Florida State.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pitt has more living alumni than all of the seven schools except for Florida State.

Markets matter because of "potential fans," casual fans. WVU has a large diehard fanbase. Everyone in the state is a fan. But they have no casual interest. Bigger markets like Pittsburgh or Virginia get higher ratings when they are good or have big games due to their bigger populations and casual interest. WVU fans may think this is unfair since they are watching every week but they dont offer conferences any room for growth.

 

[cbpitt2]

Pitt has more living alumni than all of the seven schools except for Florida State.

More of them should be going to Pitt football games.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

That's 1 of a lot of reasons.

UVa and VT have been similar in football for 100 years except for VT's 10 year Glory Days run. UVa has better basketball and is perhaps the premier state school in the country. Its academics are a brand. And its a Pgh to State College distance from DC and we know how much coverage PSU gets here. Its basically part of the DC sports scene and delivers DC as much at least as Rutgers delivered NYC.

UVA got zero football coverage when I lived in No Va. You are completely wrong.

 

[ThePanthers]

Pitt has more living alumni than all of the seven schools except for Florida State.

Our problem, as well as GT, is we live in an NFL town where college football is a second class citizen.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

So are you telling me that Virginia will not be getting a B10 or SEC invite? Yes or no.

We were talking about Virginia Tech, remember. I know you like to move goalposts, but I'll play along.

UVA has a better chance than VT, but I can't ever see them in the SEC. Maybe B10, but even that is probably less than 50%.

 

[Pitt2009]

Our problem, as well as GT, is we live in an NFL town where college football is a second class citizen.

I think it’s more Georgia Bulldog Football that is king than Falcons, but definitely get your point.

 

[pittdan77]

A shit ton of people still have cable and cable substitutes.....and always will. Markets matter a ton. Markets = fans and potential fans.

Link: ESPN, who is paying for the ACC to be on their platform, kinda disagrees.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Are you people honestly saying UVa will be left behind? Really? There is no chance of that. The state of Virginia and a slice of the DC market matters a great deal. We can debate which is more desirable VT or UVa but surely, the SEC and B10 are going to split them.

Having actually gone there, I think I am pretty qualified to say this: UVA does not own DC. Not even close. It's too small, there are too many other colleges that feed DC, and DC also gets a lot of national out-of-towners who move there for politics. Hell, I bet Liberty has pretty close to the same percentage of graduates in DC as UVA does.

UVA is a rich kid school whose graduates follow the money. Consulting, banking, etc. They probably send as many graduates to NYC as DC, and maybe even Dallas/Houston as DC.

UVA will not deliver DC. And I'm not sure the future of college FB viewership will even work on such strict geographic concepts the way the last few rounds of realignment did.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Our problem, as well as GT, is we live in an NFL town where college football is a second class citizen.

College football is huge in Atlanta. Except, since ATL is a regional capitol, we have tons of people from all of the big state schools down here: UGA obviously but also Clemson, Florida, Tennessee, and Alabama. I bet I see more Alabama gear around town than Georgia Tech.

Georgia Tech's problem is more that they're an urban school for smart kids who have interests in addition to partying. Kids go to Alabama to tailgate and watch games. They go to Georgia Tech to become engineers. Just way different priorities.

 

[pittchagg]

Having actually gone there, I think I am pretty qualified to say this: UVA does not own DC. Not even close. It's too small, there are too many other colleges that feed DC, and DC also gets a lot of national out-of-towners who move there for politics. Hell, I bet Liberty has pretty close to the same percentage of graduates in DC as UVA does.

UVA is a rich kid school whose graduates follow the money. Consulting, banking, etc. They probably send as many graduates to NYC as DC, and maybe even Dallas/Houston as DC.

UVA will not deliver DC. And I'm not sure the future of college FB viewership will even work on such strict geographic concepts the way the last few rounds of realignment did.

If you want to deliver DC, I think you add Georgetown as a non-football member. Small alumni base, but they went there, by and large, because they wanted to be in DC and have probably stuck around after graduation. Same for their graduate programs.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

If you want to deliver DC, I think you add Georgetown as a non-football member. Small alumni base, but they went there, by and large, because they wanted to be in DC and have probably stuck around after graduation. Same for their graduate programs.

G’Town basketball has a small piece of the DC market, but not that much anymore because they have been irrelevant for awhile. That isn’t going to move the needle.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Link: ESPN, who is paying for the ACC to be on their platform, kinda disagrees.

The article on cable subscribers plummeting that I posted yesterday talked a little about ESPN's conundrum. As Disney CEO says, it's inevitable.

Pay TV is suffering from what Moffett calls “the impoverishment cycle,” in which higher sports-broadcast fees have driven retail prices higher — thereby fueling cord-cutting and forcing distributors to increase prices to compensate. Even ESPN, one-time stalwart of the traditional ecosystem, has conceded that there will be a day when a la carte streaming is a viable option, Moffett noted.

“We haven’t really changed our position regarding basically migrating ESPN’s flagship service as a direct-to-consumer or streaming platform,” Disney CEO Bob Iger said on the conglomerate’s May 10 earnings call. “We think there’s an inevitability to that, but it’s a huge decision for us to make. And we know that we’ve got to get it right, both in terms of pricing and timing.”

 

[pittdan77]

The article on cable subscribers plummeting that I posted yesterday talked a little about ESPN's conundrum. As Disney CEO says, it's inevitable.

Pay TV is suffering from what Moffett calls “the impoverishment cycle,” in which higher sports-broadcast fees have driven retail prices higher — thereby fueling cord-cutting and forcing distributors to increase prices to compensate. Even ESPN, one-time stalwart of the traditional ecosystem, has conceded that there will be a day when a la carte streaming is a viable option, Moffett noted.

“We haven’t really changed our position regarding basically migrating ESPN’s flagship service as a direct-to-consumer or streaming platform,” Disney CEO Bob Iger said on the conglomerate’s May 10 earnings call. “We think there’s an inevitability to that, but it’s a huge decision for us to make. And we know that we’ve got to get it right, both in terms of pricing and timing.”

That's not exactly any sort of sage like thinking. All industries face that sort of decision making or they end up sending themselves into a death spiral. The market price always wins and you have to figure out how to sell at a price that is profitable or you have to get out before you crash and burn.

Circles back to, why would ESPN want to get rid of the ACC? The answer is that it really doesn't because ultimately, they need content that is still marketable across a geographic area that is growing.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

At a time when the largest owner of regional sports networks in the county is in bankruptcy because they can't pay their bills because of all the subscribers they have lost and when the local RSN here in Pittsburgh and a few other cities has basically told the local teams that they have contracts with that they want to give them not just their rights, but their whole networks to the teams FOR FREE because that's cheaper for them than continuing to pay for their broadcasting right because of all the subscribers they have lost, SMF tells us all that cable is going to be supreme for the next 30 years.

Of all the moronic, ridiculous predictions he has made on this board, that one right there may just be the dumbest.

 

[topdecktiger]

At a time when the largest owner of regional sports networks in the county is in bankruptcy because they can't pay their bills because of all the subscribers they have lost and when the local RSN here in Pittsburgh and a few other cities has basically told the local teams that they have contracts with that they want to give them not just their rights, but their whole networks to the teams FOR FREE because that's cheaper for them than continuing to pay for their broadcasting right because of all the subscribers they have lost, SMF tells us all that cable is going to be supreme for the next 30 years.

Of all the moronic, ridiculous predictions he has made on this board, that one right there may just be the dumbest.

The thing is though, streaming is shaping up to be a lot like cable.

 

[topdecktiger]

In ten years, the scenario will be the same:

The schools in the best position to leave are:

1. Notre Dame - Big Market
2. North Carolina - New Market


3. Virginia - Don’t bring a lot, but new market

That’s it folks!

Clemson - They’re not even the most popular team in South Carolina. SEC doesn’t need them… Brings nothing that South Carolina already has. Overrated.

NCST, VT, WF, Duke: North Carolina is the big prize. Everyone else listed doesn’t bring much to a conference but another mouth to feed:

Miami, FSU: SEC already has Florida who is the top dog. These two doesn’t move the needle much for the Big Ten to take.

Pitt, GT: Two city schools who already overshadowed by bigger schools in their state. Does bring much to move the needle in the Big Ten or SEC.

Syracuse, BC, Louisville: Oh please. They aren’t even household names in their own household…

As Chris mentioned in today’s Morning Pitt, at some point the big boys in both conferences will leave and form their own conference leaving teams like Vanderbilt, Purdue and other bottom feeders behind.

South Carolina is not more popular than Clemson in the state.

 

[pittmeister]

South Carolina is not more popular than Clemson in the state.

I came to that conclusion by this article:

The Most Popular College Football Team in Every State

Which college football teams reign supreme across the US? Check out Vivid Seats' breakdown of the most popular team in each state!

www.vividseats.com

I don’t know how accurate it is and it’s dated, but the map is based on Vivid Seats' 2019 sales data, excluding bowl games and neutral-site games.

Point is that Clemson may not have enough juice to alter the TV payout if they switched to the SEC. Maybe the Big Ten would be interested, if the TV money increases.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I came to that conclusion by this article:

The Most Popular College Football Team in Every State

Which college football teams reign supreme across the US? Check out Vivid Seats' breakdown of the most popular team in each state!

www.vividseats.com

I don’t know how accurate it is and it’s dated, but the map is based on Vivid Seats' 2019 sales data, excluding bowl games and neutral-site games.

Point is that Clemson may not have enough juice to alter the TV payout if they switched to the SEC. Maybe the Big Ten would be interested, if the TV money increases.

These aren't good ways to determine such things. In the case of vivid seats numbers, it would be completely dependent on which ticket partners these schools have. For instance, Pitt is partnered with stub hub, so there aren't many Pitt tickets on vivid seats.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

How does UVA give the B10 the DC market when they already have it with Maryland?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The thing is though, streaming is shaping up to be a lot like cable.

In some ways, sure. In others, not so much.

Doesn't change the point that the notion that cable television is going to be the dominate form of the media for the next 30 years is just dumb. It's a lot more likely that cable television won't exist in any form in 30 years than it is still the predominant way that people consume media.