"Victory Heights" announcement on Tuesday

[CrazyPaco]

Not sure what you mean by field house replacement though. Heather said in q&a the field house area will be considered in the overall pitt master plan what to do with it. But the new arena and student performance center covers the field house usage.

She also mentioned that in surveys that the students were hoping for the arena to be closer to the heart of campus instead of top of the hill and that field helps with that vision

The designs presented today are conceptual in nature and she stated starting tomorrow they will get into a more detailed design.

As for the sports bubble, it will no longer be needed with the student rec facility and the cost center being cleared out as the sports teams using them right now will have additional facilities.

I personally thought this was an upgrade over the initial master plan designs. And there are still projects in the master campus plan still to he developed.

One final thing I got from the takeaway, they are taking on debt to move forward, something past admins haven't done. However they are going to kick off a fundraising campaign to pay down that debt. But with discussions with the initial large donors they've received funds from, one of the main questions was that in the past these types of projects have been announced and not followed through. Taking on the debt and breaking ground in the near future show they are fully committed to this.

In the original master plan there was clearly new development on the site of the field house. That's all I meant. I would have put the arena on the Field House plot, or the OC lot, and I am well aware those are more difficult projects. That is just an opinion and campus development preference where the Pete Lawn is developed into more of a quad/green space oasis. They've never put much thought, nor any effort, into facilitating its use as such.

I get the talking point for locating the olympic sports arena lower on the hill, but I seriously can't buy that the elevation difference between the Pete Lawn location and the Field House as an actual significant deterrent to attending a wrestling match for undergrads. If they really that concerned about attendance at Olympic sports, they'd put the new SCI school building up on the hill and the arena down by the Syria Mosque plot. Heck, they'd move soccer, which has greater fan attendance potential, to the new OC lot plot and put women's lax up in the PSC. The entire problem with Pitt's campus is that there has never been a unified vision. There has been a succession of visions that are built on top of each other with little deference to the prior vision.

Regarding the bubble, baseball, softball, soccer, and lax are still going to use the Cost Center. The only sport moving out of Cost will be T&F. The band has been using the bubble and/or Cost I think. The IM programs will lose significant indoor field space. The rec center isn't going to have an indoor turf field as far as I am aware, although maybe there is supposed to be something in there. This seems to be going backwards to a field crunch. I guess they could put turf in the Field House like Syracuse did with Manley.

The debt thing is good and bad, but good for the reasons you mention. It will ensure it gets completed and eliminate the warranted healthy skepticism. To me, the willingness to take on debt for this project shows the health of the university overall, which is so different than where it was 20 years ago.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Why?

it’s a small area

time to break out the ms paint , again?

Oh, you think I'm the newpittstadium.com guy?

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Oh, you think I'm the newpittstadium.com guy?

Similarly detached from reality

 

[HailtoPitt]

Similarly detached from reality

The difference is that I know Pitt isn't going to do it.

 

[ThePanthers]

In the original master plan there was clearly new development on the site of the field house. That's all I meant. I would have put the arena on the Field House plot, or the OC lot, and I am well aware those are more difficult projects. That is just an opinion and campus development preference where the Pete Lawn is developed into more of a quad/green space oasis. They've never put much thought, nor any effort, into facilitating its use as such.

I get the talking point for locating the olympic sports arena lower on the hill, but I seriously can't buy that the elevation difference between the Pete Lawn location and the Field House as an actual significant deterrent to attending a wrestling match for undergrads. If they really that concerned about attendance at Olympic sports, they'd put the new SCI school building up on the hill and the arena down by the Syria Mosque plot. Heck, they'd move soccer, which has greater fan attendance potential, to the new OC lot plot and put women's lax up in the PSC. The entire problem with Pitt's campus is that there has never been a unified vision. There has been a succession of visions that are built on top of each other with little deference to the prior vision.

Regarding the bubble, baseball, softball, soccer, and lax are still going to use the Cost Center. The only sport moving out of Cost will be T&F. The band has been using the bubble and/or Cost I think. The IM programs will lose significant indoor field space. The rec center isn't going to have an indoor turf field as far as I am aware, although maybe there is supposed to be something in there. This seems to be going backwards to a field crunch. I guess they could put turf in the Field House like Syracuse did with Manley.

The debt thing is good and bad, but good for the reasons you mention. It will ensure it gets completed and eliminate the warranted healthy skepticism. To me, the willingness to take on debt for this project shows the health of the university overall, which is so different than where it was 20 years ago.

I just looked at the original master plan and the field house sight said "future flex structure" and in the summary said it could be used for student housing or additional athletic space for future project, or parking if necessary, which is what lyke said yesterday, so nothing changed there.

Also in the original master plan they were going to put a physical hall of fame or future aquatic center on the Pete lawn and build green space on the roof. So that space was always going to occupy a building, they are moving the arena down there and are still adding a green space on the roof.

There were shifting around of sites in this version, but the major difference is there is no outdoor track but an added lacrosse field.

The arena also went from a proposed 3k to 3.5k seating capacity.

Imo, outside of some personal preferences on how to use some of the sites, I don't know how this isn't viewed as a HUGE step forward for pitt athletics. And as time goes on, there will be additional enhancements to these facilities like there has been to the Pete and Peterson sports complex.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Would be nice if there could be some sort of Ice arena built someday. Wouldn't need to be anything spectacular like PSU's, just something with 1500-2000 seats that would allow us to grow a program.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The arena also went from a proposed 3k to 3.5k seating capacity.

At least we are keeping the Pitt tradition alive of playing in a facility with far too many seats.

 

[ThePanthers]

At least we are keeping the Pitt tradition alive of playing in a facility with far too many seats.

I think "far too many" is an exaggeration here.

 

[infinitehighway42]

I think "far too many" is an exaggeration here.

The Pitt PSU volleyball match at the Pete this year had over 5,000 in attendance.....so....yeah.

Volleyball and wrestling both pack the fieldhouse for high level opponents. If both programs continue to perform at the same levels, not even improve, but just stay where they are now, they will both sell out a 3,500 seat arena multiple times each season.

 

[Las Panteras]

At least we are keeping the Pitt tradition alive of playing in a facility with far too many seats.

And yet, the VB team drew 3K + to several regular season matches.

And I would argue around these parts, wrestling is more popular than VB.

You dont suppose that maybe our AD knows what she's doing?

Of course not.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

And yet, the VB team drew 3K + to several regular season matches.

And I would argue around these parts, wrestling is more popular than VB.

You dont suppose that maybe our AD knows what she's doing?

Of course not.

It is foolish to spend $300 million on sports other than football if your football team doesn't have a stadium. Period.

 

[Las Panteras]

It is foolish to spend $300 million on sports other than football if your football team doesn't have a stadium. Period.

Oh I see, you think Heather is incompetent?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Oh I see, you think Heather is incompetent?

I think she has done a great job so far. However, if she has chosen Olympic sports facilities over a football stadium then, well.....I am hoping she does have a football stadium in future plans

 

[ThePanthers]

It is foolish to spend $300 million on sports other than football if your football team doesn't have a stadium. Period.

You can keep saying this until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't make it right.

 

[pittchagg]

Would be nice if there could be some sort of Ice arena built someday. Wouldn't need to be anything spectacular like PSU's, just something with 1500-2000 seats that would allow us to grow a program.

I'm not sure that building an on-campus ice arena - which is inherently a venue that can house a maximum of two sports (mens and womens hockey) is a wise use of space and resources considering neither of the compatible sports are sports that we actually have, nor are they sports that the conference we're in sponsors. The arena as proposed fits three sports that we actually have, so it's already more versatile than any hockey arena could be.

If you are interested in a small hockey venue that's *close* to campus and Pitt were to determine to make the jump and sponsor hockey programs, the ice arena project at the Hunt Armory in Shadyside appears to be moving forward, and the projections I've seen indicate that the rink there would seat somewhere between 500-1,000 people. That's certainly not huge, but it would be a neat little venue.

 

[Las Panteras]

It is foolish to spend $300 million on sports other than football if your football team doesn't have a stadium. Period.

Here is why no one on this board takes you seriously.....

Anyone with half a brain would understand the physical limitations, the political ramifications, not to mention the expectations of the conference we are part of. This doesnt even bring into consideration the feasibility of an OCS when we ALREADY KNOW our athletic complex is the worst in P5 and we have to upgrade.

Yet here you are, whining like a 7 year old that we should have done something else with the money.

Again.....thisbis why no one takes you seriously. You will never acknowledge " the other side of the coin"......with you it's always, " we should do this, period"

You come across as a whining spoiled entitled child with not much ability to reason things out.

It won't change and you will forever be considered the fool.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Here is why no one on this board takes you seriously.....

Anyone with half a brain would understand the physical limitations, the political ramifications, not to mention the expectations of the conference we are part of. This doesnt even bring into consideration the feasibility of an OCS when we ALREADY KNOW our athletic complex is the worst in P5 and we have to upgrade.

Yet here you are, whining like a 7 year old that we should have done something else with the money.

Again.....thisbis why no one takes you seriously. You will never acknowledge " the other side of the coin"......with you it's always, " we should do this, period"

You come across as a whining spoiled entitled child with not much ability to reason things out.

It won't change and you will forever be considered the fool.

Here is what I know:

$300 million gets you land and a new stadium and I have always said it doesn't have to be on campus, just maybe closer.

I also know a new stadium would benefit the athletic department much more than sports facilities for non-revenue teams who have miniscule fanbases.

 

[pittchagg]

Here is what I know:

$300 million gets you land and a new stadium and I have always said it doesn't have to be on campus, just maybe closer.

I also know a new stadium would benefit the athletic department much more than sports facilities for non-revenue teams who have miniscule fanbases.

Where are you buying the land? Like, where are you going to put it if someone said "SMF: here's $250M. Where are you buying the land to put a new stadium?

 

[Las Panteras]

Here is what I know:

$300 million gets you land and a new stadium and I have always said it doesn't have to be on campus, just maybe closer.

I also know a new stadium would benefit the athletic department much more than sports facilities for non-revenue teams who have miniscule fanbases.

Once again, you prove your ignorance.

Maybe someone else on this board can educate this dope about politics, red tape, neighborhood resistance.....not to mention the time (years).....to move forward.

So according to our mensa member SMF, we should wait years for a dream that in all likelihood will never materialize.....

And I havent even mentioned the probable ACC insistence that we upgrade our facilities......now.

Nah.....none of that matters.....

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Where are you buying the land? Like, where are you going to put it if someone said "SMF: here's $250M. Where are you buying the land to put a new stadium?

1. Where the volleyball arena is going
2. Corner of Bates and Blvd of the Allies
3. Panther Hollow
4. Joncaire St behind Mervis Hall. Spend $50 million to buy 30 tiny houses.
5. Tear Down Trees Hall and Baseball field
6. Combination of building acquisitions on Forbes Ave. Plus some private home acquisitions
7. On Centre Avenue behind the Pitt Sports Dome
8. Schenley Park somewhere (I know about the covenants)

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Once again, you prove your ignorance.

Maybe someone else on this board can educate this dope about politics, red tape, neighborhood resistance.....not to mention the time (years).....to move forward.

So according to our mensa member SMF, we should wait years for a dream that in all likelihood will never materialize.....

And I havent even mentioned the probable ACC insistence that we upgrade our facilities......now.

Nah.....none of that matters.....

As a Pitt football fan, do you want to go on record saying if you were given $300 million that had to be spent on Pitt sports, you'd choose Olympic sports facilities over a football stadium?

I get it, its hard to build a stadium in our environment. However, $300 million gets it done

 

[CrazyPaco]

I just looked at the original master plan and the field house sight said "future flex structure" and in the summary said it could be used for student housing or additional athletic space for future project, or parking if necessary, which is what lyke said yesterday, so nothing changed there.

Also in the original master plan they were going to put a physical hall of fame or future aquatic center on the Pete lawn and build green space on the roof. So that space was always going to occupy a building, they are moving the arena down there and are still adding a green space on the roof.

There were shifting around of sites in this version, but the major difference is there is no outdoor track but an added lacrosse field.

The arena also went from a proposed 3k to 3.5k seating capacity.

Imo, outside of some personal preferences on how to use some of the sites, I don't know how this isn't viewed as a HUGE step forward for pitt athletics. And as time goes on, there will be additional enhancements to these facilities like there has been to the Pete and Peterson sports complex.

It is absolutely a huge step forward. That should go without saying.

 

[giveitarest]

As a Pitt football fan, do you want to go on record saying if you were given $300 million that had to be spent on Pitt sports, you'd choose Olympic sports facilities over a football stadium?

I get it, its hard to build a stadium in our environment. However, $300 million gets it done

There is your problem you are a Pitt Football fan not a Pitt fan. Sorry but this is a package deal and is great for the University of Pittsburgh. While you and others may not like it Pitt is a University and way more than just football.

 

[CrazyPaco]

The Pitt PSU volleyball match at the Pete this year had over 5,000 in attendance.....so....yeah.

Volleyball and wrestling both pack the fieldhouse for high level opponents. If both programs continue to perform at the same levels, not even improve, but just stay where they are now, they will both sell out a 3,500 seat arena multiple times each season.

Personally, I think 3.5k is too small. 4.5k, or at least expandable to 4-5k, is what I would have shot for because that is the sort of attendance I believe they should be aiming to build those programs to, at least for bigger weekend contests. But I guess they can easily move matches into the Pete.

 

[Las Panteras]

As a Pitt football fan, do you want to go on record saying if you were given $300 million that had to be spent on Pitt sports, you'd choose Olympic sports facilities over a football stadium?

I get it, its hard to build a stadium in our environment. However, $300 million gets it done

And once again you prove your stupidity

$300 mill does NOT get it done.

All it means is....if approved.....it gets done.

How hard is it to understand this?

"If approved "

I will repeat......"if approved"

Those two words have been the foundation of endless posts /discussion on this board and EVERYONE except you sees this as part of any scenario.

 

[infinitehighway42]

Personally, I think 3.5k is too small. 4.5k, or at least expandable to 4-5k, is what I would have shot for because that is the sort of attendance I believe they should be aiming to build those programs to, at least for bigger weekend contests. But I guess they can easily move matches into the Pete.

I agree completely. There are also multiple uses for a space like that, such as departmental graduations or other events on the academic side.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

1. Where the volleyball arena is going No room
2. Corner of Bates and Blvd of the Allies a one lane road to service all those cars? The city would approve that no problem.
3. Panther Hollow - What are you doing with railroad?
4. Joncaire St behind Mervis Hall. Spend $50 million to buy 30 tiny houses. -another lol
5. Tear Down Trees Hall and Baseball field - that's a monster hill, would require significant grading
6. Combination of building acquisitions on Forbes Ave. Plus some private home acquisitions As if Forbes avenue isn't congested enough with the new innovation district/apartment buildings
7. On Centre Avenue behind the Pitt Sports Dome - lol
8. Schenley Park somewhere (I know about the covenants) If you know how do you propose getting around them?

The only spot feasible is the VA, start a campaign to have them relocate to the Hazelwood brown fields

 

[pittchagg]

The only spot feasible is the VA, start a campaign to have them relocate to the Hazelwood brown fields

I don't even think the VA is feasible. You'd run into all the same traffic problems that you ran into with Pitt Stadium. You can't just do what they did in the 60's and box cars into the parking lots one on top of the other. And if you build a bunch of parking garages, you'd get all the same complaints about "no space for tailgating, it runs the atmosphere" that you get now with Heinz Field. What are they going to do? Spend an extra two billion dollars to run a T line up there?

I actually think the southwest corner of Bates/Blvd is the most intriguing idea. It would require a big time reconstruction of Bates and the Parkway interchange and a bunch of grading work, and you'd need to buy out all of those houses in the hollow there. But I think that Duquesne Light is in the process of moving that electric substation down to Panther Hollow anyway, and a few years ago there was a big proposal to build a big parking garage there but it got huge community pushback because the developer had bought that string of rowhouses on the other side of the Blvd. on Bates and let them become an eyesore.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I agree completely. There are also multiple uses for a space like that, such as departmental graduations or other events on the academic side.

Get to 5K and you can start competing with events that might otherwise go to RMU or Duquesne arenas.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I don't even think the VA is feasible. You'd run into all the same traffic problems that you ran into with Pitt Stadium. You can't just do what they did in the 60's and box cars into the parking lots one on top of the other. And if you build a bunch of parking garages, you'd get all the same complaints about "no space for tailgating, it runs the atmosphere" that you get now with Heinz Field. What are they going to do? Spend an extra two billion dollars to run a T line up there?

I actually think the southwest corner of Bates/Blvd is the most intriguing idea. It would require a big time reconstruction of Bates and the Parkway interchange and a bunch of grading work, and you'd need to buy out all of those houses in the hollow there. But I think that Duquesne Light is in the process of moving that electric substation down to Panther Hollow anyway, and a few years ago there was a big proposal to build a big parking garage there but it got huge community pushback because the developer had bought that string of rowhouses on the other side of the Blvd. on Bates and let them become an eyesore.

You dont need to buy any homes. Just thise 2 office buildings. There would be homes and a Housing Authority apartments very close to it which would be helpful to acquire for to make room for parking but that wouldn't be required. Yes, parking and traffic would be problems. Yes, it would be a pain to deal with city politicians and community groups. But, in the end, the money wins out and 40K people find their way to the stadium 7 Saturdays per year and all will be able to get home afterwards. Has anyone been to rural on-campus stadiums? You think those have infrastructure? It takes forever to get out of those.

 

[Las Panteras]

You dont need to buy any homes. Just thise 2 office buildings. There would be homes and a Housing Authority apartments very close to it which would be helpful to acquire for to make room for parking but that wouldn't be required. Yes, parking and traffic would be problems. Yes, it would be a pain to deal with city politicians and community groups. But, in the end, the money wins out and 40K people find their way to the stadium 7 Saturdays per year and all will be able to get home afterwards. Has anyone been to rural on-campus stadiums? You think those have infrastructure? It takes forever to get out of those.

So,

In a heaviky democratic city like Pittsburgh you are suggesting removing people from A) their homes and B) removing people from public housing......

For a parking lot.

Need I go any further?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So,

In a heaviky democratic city like Pittsburgh you are suggesting removing people from A) their homes and B) removing people from public housing......

For a parking lot.

Need I go any further?

Did you read what I said. I said it would be helpful. I didn't say we will do it or that it could be done.....the HA apartments that is. Pitt absolutely could buy houses and knock them down. They buy homes in South Oakland all the time. I had an apartment in 1. Pitt was literally my landlord.

 

[pittchagg]

Honestly, in that situation you'd need to both get rid of the UPMC building and the Duquesne Light substation, but you'd also probably need to seriously rework (if not totally buy out) all of Niagara Street from Craft to the Boulevard, and you'd probably need to do a whole bunch of work to the intersection of Craft and the Boulevard at the Sunoco station there, on top of what you'd need to do to Bates and the Parkway interchange. That intersection gets massively screwed up at rush hour as it is.

 

[Las Panteras]

Did you read what I said. I said it would be helpful. I didn't say we will do it or that it could be done.....the HA apartments that is. Pitt absolutely could buy houses and knock them down. They buy homes in South Oakland all the time. I had an apartment in 1. Pitt was literally my landlord.

I'll repeat myself, slowly for you......

Your own words " Pitt buys up buildings all the time "

Pitt can buy anything they want. The proposed use of the site is what becomes problematic.

Pitt wants to buy buildings and put up a research facility, the proposed use benefits the common good

Pitt wants to tear down crummy buildings and put up on campus housing ....again, a benefit for the common good.

Tell me in all seriousness.....that you believe a football stadium in the heart of residential Oakland, which will be used 7 times a year,

When there already is a facility suitable for this......

Would ever pass city council?

It's not a benefit for the common good, it will never pass the political machine downtown, and will never materialize.

I truly believe you are too stupid to recognize the completely different scenarios you suggest.


.

 

[pittchagg]

I'll repeat myself, slowly for you......

Your own words " Pitt buys up buildings all the time "

Pitt can buy anything they want. The proposed use of the site is what becomes problematic.

Pitt wants to buy buildings and put up a research facility, the proposed use benefits the common good

Pitt wants to tear down crummy buildings and put up on campus housing ....again, a benefit for the common good.

Tell me in all seriousness.....that you believe a football stadium in the heart of residential Oakland, which will be used 7 times a year,

When there already is a facility suitable for this......

Would ever pass city council?

It's not a benefit for the common good, it will never pass the political machine downtown, and will never materialize.

I truly believe you are too stupid to recognize the completely different scenarios you suggest.


.

Your points are a good encapsulation of why this debate isn't going anywhere until (if) the Steelers decide to abandon Heinz Field and build a new stadium elsewhere. At that point, the city could very well decide that they'd rather knock down Heinz Field and free up land on the North Shore versus South Oakland - especially if Pitt were to theoretically commit to financing the necessary road infrastructure improvements that would accompany such a project.

 

[Las Panteras]

Your points are a good encapsulation of why this debate isn't going anywhere until (if) the Steelers decide to abandon Heinz Field and build a new stadium elsewhere. At that point, the city could very well decide that they'd rather knock down Heinz Field and free up land on the North Shore versus South Oakland - especially if Pitt were to theoretically commit to financing the necessary road infrastructure improvements that would accompany such a project.

A thoughtful reasoned sensible theory.

Some could learn quite a bit from reading your posts.

 

[HailtoPitt]

So,

In a heaviky democratic city like Pittsburgh you are suggesting removing people from A) their homes and B) removing people from public housing......

For a parking lot.

Need I go any further?

The only valid reason for knocking down public housing in Pittsburgh is for :

1. New public housing or
2. A new Whole Foods store

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

The only valid reason for knocking down public housing in Pittsburgh is for :

1. New public housing or
2. A new Whole Foods store

Bike lanes

 

[ThePanthers]

I'll repeat myself, slowly for you......

Your own words " Pitt buys up buildings all the time "

Pitt can buy anything they want. The proposed use of the site is what becomes problematic.

Pitt wants to buy buildings and put up a research facility, the proposed use benefits the common good

Pitt wants to tear down crummy buildings and put up on campus housing ....again, a benefit for the common good.

Tell me in all seriousness.....that you believe a football stadium in the heart of residential Oakland, which will be used 7 times a year,

When there already is a facility suitable for this......

Would ever pass city council?

It's not a benefit for the common good, it will never pass the political machine downtown, and will never materialize.

I truly believe you are too stupid to recognize the completely different scenarios you suggest.


.

I don't know if you listened to the press conference yesterday, but there were multiple times the surrounding neighborhood and the impacts to them were brought up. There are zoning issues, etc. You cant just buy up stuff and put whatever you want there.

Smf just ignores those realities

 

[PittFamily2]

The only valid reason for knocking down public housing in Pittsburgh is for :

1. New public housing or
2. A new Whole Foods store

1 Family Rifle and Pistol Indoor/Outdoor Range With Gun Shop
2. Chick-Fil-a
3. Wallmark