Way OT: NHL’s Coyotes should relocate to Austin

[HailToPitt725]

Just using this thread as a place to write down a few thoughts I had.

The Arizona Coyotes are stuck playing in a 5,000-seat Arizona State ice rink for the foreseeable future because they’ve been kicked out of their arena in Glendale.

As much as I wanted the NHL to work in Arizona (they should’ve remained in Phoenix), I think it’s a lost cause. While people think Houston is the front runner should they decide to relocate, and there are several Canadian cities that could support a team, I think hockey can actually work in Austin, TX.

The NHL has had success in small-mid markets that either have zero existing pro sports presence or do not have a NBA franchise. Examples of this can be seen through expansion (Seattle, Las Vegas) and relocation (Raleigh). In fact, two of the only recent franchises to not follow this blueprint (Atlanta and Phoenix) have either already failed or are headed that way. You can throw Florida in there as well, although their success this season may be a turning point for them.

To me, Houston seems like it may be another Atlanta or Phoenix in that they look exclusively at the market size and nothing else (e.g. market saturation, hockey presence).

Not only is Austin one of the fastest-growing cities in the United States, but they only have a MLS team to compete with (although the Longhorns are still the hottest ticket in town, similar to Ohio State in Columbus). They’re also already home to an AHL franchise and are building a ton of new rinks. They could even attract a lot of fans from San Antonio and Houston.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Just using this thread as a place to write down a few thoughts I had.

The Arizona Coyotes are stuck playing in a 5,000-seat Arizona State ice rink for the foreseeable future because they’ve been kicked out of their arena in Glendale.

As much as I wanted the NHL to work in Arizona (they should’ve remained in Phoenix), I think it’s a lost cause. While people think Houston is the front runner should they decide to relocate, and there are several Canadian cities that could support a team, I think hockey can actually work in Austin, TX.

The NHL has had success in small-mid markets that either have zero existing pro sports presence or do not have a NBA franchise. Examples of this can be seen through expansion (Seattle, Las Vegas) and relocation (Raleigh). In fact, two of the only recent franchises to not follow this blueprint (Atlanta and Phoenix) have either already failed or are headed that way. You can throw Florida in there as well, although their success this season may be a turning point for them.

To me, Houston seems like it may be another Atlanta or Phoenix in that they look exclusively at the market size and nothing else (e.g. market saturation, hockey presence).

Not only is Austin one of the fastest-growing cities in the United States, but they only have a MLS team to compete with (although the Longhorns are still the hottest ticket in town, similar to Ohio State in Columbus). They’re also already home to an AHL franchise and are building a ton of new rinks. They could even attract a lot of fans from San Antonio and Houston.

Just some food for thought.

they arent allowed to put their logo on the center ice lol. ASU wont allow it. Hell, for as much as pitt fans complain about second class citizen status at Heinz, we are at least allowed to put a logo on mid field for our games.

 

[anon_4dfwm2pijbr0a]

Hartford or Quebec City. Gimme the Whalers or Nords!

 

[JD1976]

Don’t forget about Kansas City, which built an arena 10-15 years ago trying to lure an NHL team —AND that team was almost the Penguins.

I am rooting for Quebec City to get a team back now that they have an NHL-caliber venue.

As for the Coyotes, the biggest thing going for them is that Gary Bettman has taken it as a personal challenge to keep the NHL in that market. Whenever the time comes that he steps aside as Commish, I would expect the NHL owners and NHLPA to push for relocation.

 

[kma0043]

Quebec City, 2nd team in Toronto or Hamilton even. The round peg in a square hole approach to putting teams in south doesn’t work

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

they arent allowed to put their logo on the center ice lol. ASU wont allow it. Hell, for as much as pitt fans complain about second class citizen status at Heinz, we are at least allowed to put a logo on mid field for our games.

But not allowed to play home night games in September because of a team that will be verging on 120 losses by then

 

[Pitt_Boss]

if they move to Austin, they have to change team name to the Bats

 

[HailToPitt725]

Don’t forget about Kansas City, which built an arena 10-15 years ago trying to lure an NHL team —AND that team was almost the Penguins.

I am rooting for Quebec City to get a team back now that they have an NHL-caliber venue.

As for the Coyotes, the biggest thing going for them is that Gary Bettman has taken it as a personal challenge to keep the NHL in that market. Whenever the time comes that he steps aside as Commish, I would expect the NHL owners and NHLPA to push for relocation.

I was going to mention Kansas City, but I just don’t think it’ll work here. I’d love for us to get a team, and maybe the locals would come around if they were promised a NHL team, but there’s just very few hockey fans here. I think the NBA would be a better fit. It’s a BIG basketball town.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Quebec City, 2nd team in Toronto or Hamilton even. The round peg in a square hole approach to putting teams in south doesn’t work

I definitely think the Nordiques should come back, but I think the league should wait on them and see what happens with the Panthers. They have an arena lease expiring at the end of the decade and the logistics of an Eastern Conference team relocating there would be much better.

 

[jtownknowitall]

Norfolk might be a good destination for the NHL. It was a long time minor league town like Nashville, Raleigh and Columbus.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I actually like this idea.

 

[rhyno527]

Vegas is already building an arena so they’re going to be a player

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Just using this thread as a place to write down a few thoughts I had.

The Arizona Coyotes are stuck playing in a 5,000-seat Arizona State ice rink for the foreseeable future because they’ve been kicked out of their arena in Glendale.

How did that happen?

As much as a US hockey hotbed as Wisconsin has traditionally been, I'm puzzled why there has never been a NHL franchise in Milwaukee.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Norfolk might be a good destination for the NHL. It was a long time minor league town like Nashville, Raleigh and Columbus.

You may be onto something. Norfolk and Virginia Beach seem to be growing. The only concerns I’d have would be 1) corporate sponsorships and 2) do you think enough people in Virginia would switch from being Caps/Canes? Not sure what the “party lines” are there.

 

[HailToPitt725]

How did that happen?

As much as a US hockey hotbed as Wisconsin has traditionally been, I'm puzzled why there has never been a NHL franchise in Milwaukee.

It’s a long story, but Glendale decided not to renew the agreement and the Yotes are banking on a new arena in Tempe while bunking with ASU in the meantime.

As for Milwaukee, I believe it had to do with Chicago getting upset over territory rights. BMO Harris Arena was built with hockey in mind and they almost received an expansion franchise in the late 80s, but the Blackhawks owner came up with the idea of large expansion fees and the prospective Milwaukee owner balked at it.

 

[USN_Panther]

You may be onto something. Norfolk and Virginia Beach seem to be growing. The only concerns I’d have would be 1) corporate sponsorships and 2) do you think enough people in Virginia would switch from being Caps/Canes? Not sure what the “party lines” are there.

The problem in the Tidewater area is that the conglomeration of cities do not work together. It is the most populous area in VA, but they don't capitalize on it. You have Norfolk, VaBeach, Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Hampton, Newport News all with reasonable population bases but they all do everything independently and autonomously.
If they could get their act together regionally, they could support pro sports. College sports there is a dead zone. ODU is pretty much it.
Not sure what minor league sports are there anymore. I lived there in the mid-late 90s and the Mets AAA team and an ECHL team were there and drew good crowds.
The defense industry is big down there. There is some corporate money around.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

As for the Coyotes, the biggest thing going for them is that Gary Bettman has taken it as a personal challenge to keep the NHL in that market.

That's why they aren't moving any time soon. Bettman would consider it a personal stain that his baby didn't work out. So they will stay there at all costs.

And for the next couple if seasons that cost will be tens of millions of dollars.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

As for Milwaukee, I believe it had to do with Chicago getting upset over territory rights. BMO Harris Arena was built with hockey in mind and they almost received an expansion franchise in the late 80s, but the Blackhawks owner came up with the idea of large expansion fees and the prospective Milwaukee owner balked at it.

Happened before I was born, so I don't know if the same issue was raised, but that didn't stop Milwaukee from getting major league baseball (and there were two Chicago franchises).

 

[HailtoPitt]

they arent allowed to put their logo on the center ice lol. ASU wont allow it. Hell, for as much as pitt fans complain about second class citizen status at Heinz, we are at least allowed to put a logo on mid field for our games.

Let me know when it goes 15+ years without being allowed to have their logo on center ice.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

That's why they aren't moving any time soon. Bettman would consider it a personal stain that his baby didn't work out. So they will stay there at all costs.

And for the next couple if seasons that cost will be tens of millions of dollars.

It's stupid. Austin makes more sense. As does KC. Even Houston. Hell, what about San Diego, now that they don't have the Chargers. Force-feeding Arizona with a lousy ownership is not working. Time to cut bait.

 

[kma0043]

I definitely think the Nordiques should come back, but I think the league should wait on them and see what happens with the Panthers. They have an arena lease expiring at the end of the decade and the logistics of an Eastern Conference team relocating there would be much better.

Quebec City built a new 18k seat arena a few years back. Market is there, so it’s prob a matter of time for them to get one back.

 

[FireballZ]

Hartford or Quebec City. Gimme the Whalers or Nords!

Yep. Austin is another hipster doofus city. Might be good for hockey, but I agree with moving it back to a city in the NE.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Quebec City built a new 18k seat arena a few years back. Market is there, so it’s prob a matter of time for them to get one back.

No doubt. I feel like the league will put it off for as long as they can because of the fact that it’s a slam dunk, because teams can use QC as leverage for whenever they want a new/renovated arena.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Just using this thread as a place to write down a few thoughts I had.

The Arizona Coyotes are stuck playing in a 5,000-seat Arizona State ice rink for the foreseeable future because they’ve been kicked out of their arena in Glendale.

As much as I wanted the NHL to work in Arizona (they should’ve remained in Phoenix), I think it’s a lost cause. While people think Houston is the front runner should they decide to relocate, and there are several Canadian cities that could support a team, I think hockey can actually work in Austin, TX.

The NHL has had success in small-mid markets that either have zero existing pro sports presence or do not have a NBA franchise. Examples of this can be seen through expansion (Seattle, Las Vegas) and relocation (Raleigh). In fact, two of the only recent franchises to not follow this blueprint (Atlanta and Phoenix) have either already failed or are headed that way. You can throw Florida in there as well, although their success this season may be a turning point for them.

To me, Houston seems like it may be another Atlanta or Phoenix in that they look exclusively at the market size and nothing else (e.g. market saturation, hockey presence).

Not only is Austin one of the fastest-growing cities in the United States, but they only have a MLS team to compete with (although the Longhorns are still the hottest ticket in town, similar to Ohio State in Columbus). They’re also already home to an AHL franchise and are building a ton of new rinks. They could even attract a lot of fans from San Antonio and Houston.

Just some food for thought.

I cant believe the NHL is still hanging on in Arizona. At some point, they have to realize it aint gonna work. I agree Austin > Houston. The NHL and MLS have similar young, niche fanbases and the MLS does great in Austin and struggles in Houston.

Quebec City is also a no-brainer

Kansas City might be the largest city without a major indoor sports franchise

They are building an NBA/NHL arena in Virginia Beach and that metro area is the largest in the country without a pro team.

Honestly, there are probably 30 better hockey markets than suburban Phoenix.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Quebec City is too small. If you combine the US and Canada together Quebec City is the 81st largest metropolitan area. It's smaller than places like El Paso and Dayton. The Lehigh Valley metropolitan area (Allentown) is bigger. It's a couple of thousand people larger than Boise, Idaho.

Yeah, the people there are nuts for hockey. But they don't bring anything to the table. They wouldn't bring in any extra television viewers or television revenue. There would be a dozen cities higher on the list than them.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Quebec City is too small. If you combine the US and Canada together Quebec City is the 81st largest metropolitan area. It's smaller than places like El Paso and Dayton. The Lehigh Valley metropolitan area (Allentown) is bigger. It's a couple of thousand people larger than Boise, Idaho.

Yeah, the people there are nuts for hockey. But they don't bring anything to the table. They wouldn't bring in any extra television viewers or television revenue. There would be a dozen cities higher on the list than them.

Similar to Winnipeg, Quebec City doesn't give you any room for growth, but its very safe since everyone there is nuts about hockey. Many US cities offer more potential fans but market penetration in KC or Austin would be so much lower.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I cant believe the NHL is still hanging on in Arizona. At some point, they have to realize it aint gonna work. I agree Austin > Houston. The NHL and MLS have similar young, niche fanbases and the MLS does great in Austin and struggles in Houston.

Quebec City is also a no-brainer

Kansas City might be the largest city without a major indoor sports franchise

They are building an NBA/NHL arena in Virginia Beach and that metro area is the largest in the country without a pro team.

Honestly, there are probably 30 better hockey markets than suburban Phoenix.

It’s a shame what has happened in Arizona because I think it’d be different if they stayed in downtown Phoenix. Same thing with Florida; I feel like they would’ve had less troubles had they remained in downtown Miami.

Getting those sun belt markets to embrace hockey is challenging enough, getting them to go out of their way to the suburbs is hard to overcome.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It’s a shame what has happened in Arizona because I think it’d be different if they stayed in downtown Phoenix. Same thing with Florida; I feel like they would’ve had less troubles had they remained in downtown Miami.

Getting those sun belt markets to embrace hockey is challenging enough, getting them to go out of their way to the suburbs is hard to overcome.

How in the world are the Panthers still playing in Fort Lauderdale? There's no better hockey market? Some of these franchises gots to go. TB Rays, Jax Jags, etc. Actually, Florida is an awful pro sports state. Too many non-Floridians with allegiances to other teams.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

They will be approved for an arena in Tempe. The ASU arena will actually make them more money than they got in Glendale. They aren’t going anywhere.

 

[HailToPitt725]

How in the world are the Panthers still playing in Fort Lauderdale? There's no better hockey market? Some of these franchises gots to go. TB Rays, Jax Jags, etc. Actually, Florida is an awful pro sports state. Too many non-Floridians with allegiances to other teams.

Yeah, I fear that Florida only has enough hockey fans to support one team. The Panthers were the President Trophy winners and they were still bottom third in attendance while only having an 87% average capacity.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yeah, I fear that Florida only has enough hockey fans to support one team. The Panthers were the President Trophy winners and they were still bottom third in attendance while only having an 87% average capacity.

They filled 87% of the seats? Wow, I would have thought they'd only get 5K-10K per game. 87% full is a miracle down there

 

[caleco's]

Hartford or Quebec City. Gimme the Whalers or Nords!

yeah im done with these us expansiom cities. mlb and nhl have nothing bust misery the last 30 years with their big market models. the nhl needs to return to its roots not pander to yuppy fans who will find hockey a novelty for a few years. after 18 years i just moved from lv back to pa. my wife is native lv born and was amazed at the knights support
...i told her wait until year 6 or 7 when the roster has no high picks and they hit a stretch of 3 to 4 years of no playoffs. they will suddenly become a has been and after thought. austin like lv is filled with transplants who have no deep ties to the area. that doesnt bode well for long term fan support. Houston would be a disaster for the nhl much like phoenix

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

I like Austin having the NHL and NBA minor league affiliates, but the is a ton of space to build an NHL arena on the 130 toll where Elon built his Tesla factory and south of that COTA.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Quebec City is too small. If you combine the US and Canada together Quebec City is the 81st largest metropolitan area. It's smaller than places like El Paso and Dayton. The Lehigh Valley metropolitan area (Allentown) is bigger. It's a couple of thousand people larger than Boise, Idaho.

Yeah, the people there are nuts for hockey. But they don't bring anything to the table. They wouldn't bring in any extra television viewers or television revenue. There would be a dozen cities higher on the list than them.

Personally, I would love it going to Quebec City. Personally. Romantically. But it makes absolutely zero sense. Especially with North American markets like:
Austin
San Diego
Houston
Kansas City
even Atlanta would make more sense.

Arizona has horrible ownership also.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Personally, I would love it going to Quebec City. Personally. Romantically. But it makes absolutely zero sense. Especially with North American markets like:
Austin
San Diego
Houston
Kansas City
even Atlanta would make more sense.

Arizona has horrible ownership also.

Houston and San Diego would be a disaster. I can see Austin and KC. I'd go back to Atlanta before Houston and SD. MLS is going crazy in Atlanta. Maybe they can support hockey now.

I think places with no indoor pro teams is the way to go or cities with only 0 or 1 pro team

KC
Austin
Cincy
Louisville
Norfolk/Virginia Beach

 

[jtownknowitall]

Kansas City might be the largest city without a major indoor sports franchise

San Diego and Baltimore

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Yeah, San Diego is an awful sports town. Maybe the worst after experiencing it for 10 years.

 

[HailtoPitt]

California libs are taking over Austin and it's soon to be a cesspool of Biden voters. I'd advise the NHL to NOT consider Austin.

 

[jtownknowitall]

California libs are taking over Austin and it's soon to be a cesspool of Biden voters. I'd advise the NHL to NOT consider Austin.

Isn't hockey mostly played by immigrants?

 

[HailtoPitt]

Isn't hockey mostly played by immigrants?

Yes, but they enter the country the right way. And by that I mean they aren't coming from the south.