13th Place finish for Pitt in ACC Basketball Predictions

[Chescat]

I am no longer convinced the argument is valid that we were out recruited by the teams above us but just looked better because we had a large class. I went back to 24/7 and ranked the recruit classes by the average 24/7 rating of their top two recruits. This is what I found.

(1) UNC 0.9951
(2) Duke 0.9941
(3) Virginia 0.9888
(4) Miami 0.9774
(5) Clemson 0.9700
(6) VA Tech 0.9602
(7) NC St 0.9542
(8) Pitt 0.9530
(9) Syracuse 0.9491
(10)Louisville 0.9471
(11) Fla St 0.9465
(12) B.C. 0.9029
(13) GA Tech 0.8894
(14) N. Dame 0.8876
(15) Wake For 0.8630

Bottom Line--Pitt at #8 based on only its top 2 recruits is pretty much the same as Pitt's #7 based on all 5 of its recruits and I doubt it would change much if I used the average of the top 3 recruits.

We pretty much landed a middle of the pack class however you slice it, IMHO, while filling our greatest needs--height, length and depth and clearly out-recruited teams #12 to #15.

Not sure if I'm reading your answer accurately or not. My post suggested that this
past recruiting class was actually middle of the league. Your ranking supports
this assessment. Prior to this we had a few sub par classes and that's why we
were falling behind and why I stated how hard it was to catch up.
As I and another poster stated, our recruits are better, but still no one even
rated in the top 10 of the league. IMO we're doing better....one middle of
the pack recruiting year doesn't get us where we want to be.
Anyway, you make a good point and maybe we're splitting hairs, so to speak.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Not sure if I'm reading your answer accurately or not. My post suggested that this
past recruiting class was actually middle of the league. Your ranking supports
this assessment. Prior to this we had a few sub par classes and that's why we
were falling behind and why I stated how hard it was to catch up.
As I and another poster stated, our recruits are better, but still no one even
rated in the top 10 of the league. IMO we're doing better....one middle of
the pack recruiting year doesn't get us where we want to be.
Anyway, you make a good point and maybe we're splitting hairs, so to speak.

I think the difference is in some of these classes like Louisville’s 2 years ago they had quality AND depth. Or in Miami’s case this year, they have a day 1 star in Tinberlake. As for GT, they’ll be one of the best teams in the league this year and currently have a top 20 class all signed. So things are trending upwards there.

In short, it’s obviously better than where we were but we still have a lot of work to do.

 

[Drew1208]

Who not in the top tier in the league is worse than last year?
Notre Dame
Syracuse
Wake
Bc
Nc State

Who is the same or better?
Vtech
Miami
UNC
Gtech
Pitt
Clemson

Should be a jumbled mess.
1.Virginia
2.Duke
3.Fl state
4.UNC
5.MIami
6.Louisville
7.Gtech
8.Clemson
9. Cuse
10. Nc State
11. Pitt
12.Vtech
13.ND
14.BC
15.Wake
I'm stoned and bored.

 

[Chescat]

Who not in the top tier in the league is worse than last year?
Notre Dame
Syracuse
Wake
Bc
Nc State

Who is the same or better?
Vtech
Miami
UNC
Gtech
Pitt
Clemson

Should be a jumbled mess.
1.Virginia
2.Duke
3.Fl state
4.UNC
5.MIami
6.Louisville
7.Gtech
8.Clemson
9. Cuse
10. Nc State
11. Pitt
12.Vtech
13.ND
14.BC
15.Wake
I'm stoned and bored.

Makes sense. Not bad for being "stoned and bored." LOL

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I think the difference is in some of these classes like Louisville’s 2 years ago they had quality AND depth. Or in Miami’s case this year, they have a day 1 star in Tinberlake. As for GT, they’ll be one of the best teams in the league this year and currently have a top 20 class all signed. So things are trending upwards there.

In short, it’s obviously better than where we were but we still have a lot of work to do.

Agree. We also have to make up for awful classes by Stallings. That being said, if we can land an AVERAGE of two top 100 guys each class (we did land two this time) plus a third guy who is top 200 recruit with potential to improve—

Then, over a four year recruiting cycle, we could eventually have a roster composed of 8 top 100 recruits and 4-5 top 200 guys. If coached well that should be an NCAA Tourney quality roster.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

With six new faces and if the guard from Miami is given a waiver seven new faces ..... it is hard to tell what our team will look like in competition.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

With six new faces and if the guard from Miami is given a waiver seven new faces ..... it is hard to tell what our team will look like in competition.

IMHO, at least early on it should look pretty much the same as last season starting lineup-wise (except for Horton starting in place of McGowens). Later in the season it should morph with more time going to some of the freshmen with us using two bigs on the floor for more minutes per game than last season (where matchups dictate we need more height defensively, especially on those defensive boards). Just my opinion, though. Maybe some freshmen will earn starters minutes right out of the gate. Have to wait and see. Seeing what happens is what will make this season interesting beyond just wins and losses.

 

[Indiana Panther Fan]

IMHO, at least early on it should look pretty much the same as last season starting lineup-wise (except for Horton starting in place of McGowens). Later in the season it should morph with more time going to some of the freshmen with us using two bigs on the floor for more minutes per game than last season (where matchups dictate we need more height defensively, especially on those defensive boards). Just my opinion, though. Maybe some freshmen will earn starters minutes right out of the gate. Have to wait and see. Seeing what happens is what will make this season interesting beyond just wins and losses.

Lmao. Amundson will not see any time. Unless Brown, Hugley and Collier all foul out. You really need to hit the breaks on this class. Dreams are nice to have..

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

IMHO, at least early on it should look pretty much the same as last season starting lineup-wise (except for Horton starting in place of McGowens). Later in the season it should morph with more time going to some of the freshmen with us using two bigs on the floor for more minutes per game than last season (where matchups dictate we need more height defensively, especially on those defensive boards). Just my opinion, though. Maybe some freshmen will earn starters minutes right out of the gate. Have to wait and see. Seeing what happens is what will make this season interesting beyond just wins and losses.

I hope we’re not gonna play two “Bigs”. Unless it’s Brown with Hugley at the 4. I’d much rather see Hugley at the 5 with some combination of Collier, Champagnie, Toney at the 4. Keep Amadasun and Coulaliby on the bench unless it’s an emergency

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Evaluating incoming talent is iffy at best . Look at the NFL who spends millions on evaluating talent and has the benefit of watching their prospects play college ball . How do you explain a Tom Brady or an AB ? You can’t. Let’s let these guys come in and compete and see how they play at this level . JC biggest asset needs to be in evaluating high school talent and finding the diamond in the ruff because where the Pitt program is at he simply cannot out recruit the top teams in the conference on paper . I have high hopes for this class , but until we see what they bring to the table no one knows . Hopefully we’ll know soon enough .

 

[Chescat]

I hope we’re not gonna play two “Bigs”. Unless it’s Brown with Hugley at the 4. I’d much rather see Hugley at the 5 with some combination of Collier, Champagnie, Toney at the 4. Keep Amadasun and Coulaliby on the bench unless it’s an emergency

Two Bigs on the floor at once, Hugley at the 5 with some combination of
non bigs...... whatever. The important point IMO is that Capel has more options
than last year. He also had more options last year than in his first year. Once
the injuries hit (Drumgoole, Murphy, and the walk on pg) he was out of
options and we fell apart.
Practices will determine who plays the 5, and when. I also like Hugley or Brown
at center with that combination you spoke of. We're loaded at the wing position
and can play a number of guard/wing combos. I also believe that's where most
of our talent is located.
With that said, I do believe there will be times for Capel to get two bigs on the
floor at once. He has Hugley, Brown, Coulibaly, and even Amadasun. Collier
is listed at 6'8". The bodies are there in number. Are they all ready?.....probably
not, but Capel has options.












he

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Two Bigs on the floor at once, Hugley at the 5 with some combination of
non bigs...... whatever. The important point IMO is that Capel has more options
than last year. He also had more options last year than in his first year. Once
the injuries hit (Drumgoole, Murphy, and the walk on pg) he was out of
options and we fell apart.
Practices will determine who plays the 5, and when. I also like Hugley or Brown
at center with that combination you spoke of. We're loaded at the wing position
and can play a number of guard/wing combos. I also believe that's where most
of our talent is located.
With that said, I do believe there will be times for Capel to get two bigs on the
floor at once. He has Hugley, Brown, Coulibaly, and even Amadasun. Collier
is listed at 6'8". The bodies are there in number. Are they all ready?.....probably
not, but Capel has options.












he

Amadasun and Coulaliby are not players you’re gonna win with in the ACC.

I also wouldn’t say we’re “loaded” at the wing position. We have a few solid players and a couple guys who might be good.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Lmao. Amundson will not see any time. Unless Brown, Hugley and Collier all foul out. You really need to hit the breaks on this class. Dreams are nice to have..

Don’t know where you got the idea that I think Amadasun will be seeing any time.

I never said so, nor do I expect him to see anything but garbage time minutes this coming season—maybe in 2-3 years he can get some prime time minutes if he develops.

I expect Brown with 4 smaller guys to start at the beginning of the season. Later in the season maybe two big guys and one fewer smaller guy at least half the time with the two bigs at anytime being from the group of Brown + Hugley + Colier + Coulibaly.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Two Bigs on the floor at once, Hugley at the 5 with some combination of
non bigs...... whatever. The important point IMO is that Capel has more options
than last year. He also had more options last year than in his first year. Once
the injuries hit (Drumgoole, Murphy, and the walk on pg) he was out of
options and we fell apart.
Practices will determine who plays the 5, and when. I also like Hugley or Brown
at center with that combination you spoke of. We're loaded at the wing position
and can play a number of guard/wing combos. I also believe that's where most
of our talent is located.
With that said, I do believe there will be times for Capel to get two bigs on the
floor at once. He has Hugley, Brown, Coulibaly, and even Amadasun. Collier
is listed at 6'8". The bodies are there in number. Are they all ready?.....probably
not, but Capel has options.

Colliers height question is interesting. The official site roster does list him at 6-8. On the other hand, several news stories that appeared on the official site stated he is 6-9. No matter whichever height is actually most correct, given XJ’s first practice interview remark that Collier can “jump out of the gym” suggests Collier has potential for playing effectively as a 4 (i.e., as a secondary big) some of the time. We shall be finding out what he brings to the table.

 

[Drew1208]

Colliers height question is interesting. The official site roster does list him at 6-8. On the other hand, several news stories that appeared on the official site stated he is 6-9. No matter whichever height is actually most correct, given XJ’s first practice interview remark that Collier can “jump out of the gym” suggests Collier has potential for playing effectively as a 4 (i.e., as a secondary big) some of the time. We shall be finding out what he brings to the table.

He could be something else if he gained some muscle this offseason.

 

[Chescat]

Amadasun and Coulaliby are not players you’re gonna win with in the ACC.

I also wouldn’t say we’re “loaded” at the wing position. We have a few solid players and a couple guys who might be good.

Yeah. "loaded" isn't the best word to use describing our wing type
players, but there are numbers. The point is Capel has options.
Same with the bigs,,,,you're right you you ain't gonna win in the
ACC with players like Coulibaly and Amadasun. However they can
come off the bench. Again, same point.....the numbers are there
giving Capel options inside also.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Yeah. "loaded" isn't the best word to use describing our wing type
players, but there are numbers. The point is Capel has options.
Same with the bigs,,,,you're right you you ain't gonna win in the
ACC with players like Coulibaly and Amadasun. However they can
come off the bench. Again, same point.....the numbers are there
giving Capel options inside also.

Yes. The depth issue helps. If you can give frontline bigs even a few minutes of rest without having to go too small on defense and boards that is a valuable luxury that wasn’t an option last year.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

It does amaze me how people can put labels and limitations on 18 yr old kids .

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

It does amaze me how people can put labels and limitations on 18 yr old kids .

At least from my perspective the only limitations I see are for some of the freshman to not be ready for “prime time” as true freshmen. That doesn’t mean to me that they don’t have potential to be frontline players if they improve and develop over their college careers.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

At least from my perspective the only limitations I see are for some of the freshman to not be ready for “prime time” as true freshmen. That doesn’t mean to me that they don’t have potential to be frontline players if they improve and develop over their college careers.

I did say I didn’t think those guys were winning ACC players. And I mean, I watched these guys in person. 4 times I sat courtside at Our savior Lutheran last year. It’s my opinion. If it offends him that my opinion that those 2 guys aren’t good enough, he probably get offended often.

This opinion was shared with coaches and scouts I talked to that amadasun was a big reach.

 

[Indiana Panther Fan]

I did say I didn’t think those guys were winning ACC players. And I mean, I watched these guys in person. 4 times I sat courtside at Our savior Lutheran last year. It’s my opinion. If it offends him that my opinion that those 2 guys aren’t good enough, he probably get offended often.

This opinion was shared with coaches and scouts I talked to that amadasun was a big reach.

The GolfHack is weak and Fragile. Hopefully these kids have more resolve and drive than someone like him. He seems to get offended on a daily basis.

He was Kevin Stallings biggest defender and cheerleader, that speaks volumes.....

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I did say I didn’t think those guys were winning ACC players. And I mean, I watched these guys in person. 4 times I sat courtside at Our savior Lutheran last year. It’s my opinion. If it offends him that my opinion that those 2 guys aren’t good enough, he probably get offended often.

This opinion was shared with coaches and scouts I talked to that amadasun was a big reach.

Never seen Amadusun but by his rank and offers, he definitely seems like a Dixon II-ish reach. The "hit rate" on a big like that is probably 1 out of 10.

 

[Chescat]

I did say I didn’t think those guys were winning ACC players. And I mean, I watched these guys in person. 4 times I sat courtside at Our savior Lutheran last year. It’s my opinion. If it offends him that my opinion that those 2 guys aren’t good enough, he probably get offended often.

This opinion was shared with coaches and scouts I talked to that amadasun was a big reach.

Most of us realize you were giving your opinion on Amadason and Coulibaly.
I happen to agree neither are going to be (as you posted) winning ACC players.
Personally I see them as two bigs behind Brown and Hugley and maybe even
6'8"/6'9" Collier. They're substitutes and IMO we need subs who can come in
off the bench and give us some needed height inside even if it's only for a
few minutes here and there. Coulibaly proved he could help backing up
Brown and Hamilton last season..... A viable ACC starter?.... no. A decent
sub?...yes. Amadason?...I doubt he sees much playing time this season.
Having four or five bigs will also challenge the starting bigs in practice.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I did say I didn’t think those guys were winning ACC players. And I mean, I watched these guys in person. 4 times I sat courtside at Our savior Lutheran last year. It’s my opinion. If it offends him that my opinion that those 2 guys aren’t good enough, he probably get offended often.

This opinion was shared with coaches and scouts I talked to that amadasun was a big reach.

A reach, I agree in terms of near term ACC-level quality starter potential. That would be gravy were it to happen even in a couple of years. On the other hand, not so much a reach if you only see him as recruited primarily as a backup on a team sorely lacking in size on its roster.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

The GolfHack is weak and Fragile. Hopefully these kids have more resolve and drive than someone like him. He seems to get offended on a daily basis.

He was Kevin Stallings biggest defender and cheerleader, that speaks volumes.....

I never was a Stallings backer just never thought Pitt would eat his contract and then try to wiggle out of paying him . I was a JD guy by the way .

I‘m also willing to give a kid a chance who the coaches obviously see something in time to develop before I give up on
them . If that makes me weak and fragile in your eyes I suggest you should look up the definition of those words .

 

[pittchagg]

Yeah, I don’t think anyone is expecting for Amadasun or Coulibaly to be 30+ mpg guys or All-ACC level guys. But that’s very different than them (or even one of them, honestly) developing into a competent, complimentary player who can come in and give quality minutes behind the actual starter.

I liked what I saw out of Coulibaly in spots last year, though I think his ceiling is limited at the 5. And Amadasun, as has been noted, is pretty raw - though his physical build seems ready to play at this level, so I’m hopeful that, if nothing else, he’ll be able to provide some solid energy minutes and defensive/rebounding play...even if that isn’t necessarily this year.

But honestly, even if we’re able to develop one of those two guys into a replacement level depth forward in the ACC, that’s an okay enough hit rate for that position IMO. Especially if we’re in a dynamic where the guy who doesn’t become that ACC-level depth forward hits the portal. It’s like linemen in football - if you’re not landing a stud, it’s worth the investment to take a handful of them.

 

[jrnPitt]

Media members of the ACC predicted a 13th place finish for Pitt. It has us as only
ahead of Boston College(14) and Wake Forrest (15). IMO that prediction is a bit low.
I do believe we can finish a little closer to the middle of the league. How much
closer to the middle can we really climb? Not sure, but it ain't gonna be easy.
Part of the problem is we're in the ACC, the top league in the country. Capel
is improving our talent level, and our depth. Unfortunately so are the
other teams in the league. The same predicting group listed the top ACC
incoming freshmen....we had no one listed. Same thing with the first and
second team all stars. We won 6 league games last year. Improving that
number to 10 would be a real achievement. I thought the 6 we won last
year was an overachievement.

We're getting there IMO, but slowly. How much better can Capel realistically
recruit? Given where we were, and where we are now, the fact remains
we're up against the Dukes, UNC's, UVA's and others.
Our ACC schedule is damn tough, and we have fewer non league cupcakes
this year. Improving the overall season record will be a challenge this year.
Despite this appearing to be a negative post, my feeling is we're better this year,
and can improve on our ACC standing. I like what Capel is doing and believe
we're on an upswing program wise.

Right now I wouldn't want to play either BC or Wake Forest. Looks like the Media members of the ACC may have too optimistic for Pitt BB this season.

 

[Chescat]

Right now I wouldn't want to play either BC or Wake Forest. Looks like the Media members of the ACC may have too optimistic for Pitt BB this season.

Yeah, after last night's debacle it sure looks that way. What I saw was a
disjointed Pitt team up against an organized, well coach team. St. Francis
knew to come out with a zone D, and we looked as bad (actualy worse)
than we usually do against it. We didn't do much better against their
Man to Man either.
We appeared to look uninspired, unconfident, and leaderless. Will we
bounce back? We'll see soon enough. The signs don't look promising
at this point. But it's early.....we'll see.
Horton replacing McGowens?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

GT finishing 6th or higher wouldn’t surprise me one bit. They have one of the most talented rosters in the league. If josh can get his head out of his ass they could sneak into top 4.

Bump. 😉

 

[JD1976]

Bump. 😉

Your arm must be sore from all of that patting yourself on the back every day.

 

[WannyandWalt]

next year we will finish 11th is my prediction, yippee

 

[pittjas]

So... before the season everyone predicted 11th-12th place and an “optimistic” prediction was 7-9 ACC wins... well we went 6-10 and I’ll assume we win at least 1 more since BC was one of the games we didn’t get to play.

A lot of accurate predictions in this thread. Also curious that it went how a lot of people predicted yet people are ready to jump off a bridge. Would’ve been interesting if Hugley doesn’t steal a car and our players didn’t hate each other.

 

[Drew1208]

So... before the season everyone predicted 11th-12th place and an “optimistic” prediction was 7-9 ACC wins... well we went 6-10 and I’ll assume we win at least 1 more since BC was one of the games we didn’t get to play.

A lot of accurate predictions in this thread. Also curious that it went how a lot of people predicted yet people are ready to jump off a bridge. Would’ve been interesting if Hugley doesn’t steal a car and our players didn’t hate each other.

You nailed it.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

You nailed it.

What about me Drew? I need my Pat on the back from you for nailing GT!

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

So... before the season everyone predicted 11th-12th place and an “optimistic” prediction was 7-9 ACC wins... well we went 6-10 and I’ll assume we win at least 1 more since BC was one of the games we didn’t get to play.

A lot of accurate predictions in this thread. Also curious that it went how a lot of people predicted yet people are ready to jump off a bridge. Would’ve been interesting if Hugley doesn’t steal a car and our players didn’t hate each other.

Hugley loss (is there any chance he returns?) hurt them short term and long-term (until they hit on a big talent at C) just eats at me daily.

I'd feel a lot better about next year's team even just knowing a Hugley they had developed for a year was coming into 21/22 as C.

Sigh. Smh. The X and Toney stuff is one thing. There's been smoke there for a while. Hugley think is just completely out of left field horrid luck and just a dumb dumb mistake by a kid.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Hugley loss (is there any chance he returns?) hurt them short term and long-term (until they hit on a big talent at C) just eats at me daily.

I'd feel a lot better about next year's team even just knowing a Hugley they had developed for a year was coming into 21/22 as C.

Sigh. Smh. The X and Toney stuff is one thing. There's been smoke there for a while. Hugley think is just completely out of left field horrid luck and just a dumb dumb mistake by a kid.

Yeah for sure. The people who actually like Hugely wasn't a major loss are kidding themselves. I don't know if he'd have become a go to guy but definitely could have seen him averaging 10/10 next year, maybe 7/7 by the end of this season. That would have been huge and probably wins us a few more games down the stretch.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

definitely could have seen him averaging 10/10 next year

Here's the list of Pitt players to have averaged 10 and 10 as a sophomore over the last 50 years:

Dejuan Blair
Jerome Lane
Sam Clancy
Billy Knight


Seems highly unlikely that John Hugley would be anywhere near good enough to join that list.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Here's the list of Pitt players to have averaged 10 and 10 as a sophomore over the last 50 years:

Dejuan Blair
Jerome Lane
Sam Clancy
Billy Knight


Seems highly unlikely that John Hugley would be anywhere near good enough to join that list.

That's funny for someone to think that Hugley would be anything close to any of those guys. Maybe on his best day when he's a senior, he might get one double double. That's it. But not as a sophomore.

 

[Drew1208]

What about me Drew? I need my Pat on the back from you for nailing GT!

Lol i must've missed it.
You got some things right this year no doubt.
Except Miami.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Lol i must've missed it.
You got some things right this year no doubt.
Except Miami.

Yeah larranega retiring and the injuries/covid problems were not something my crystal ball foresaw.