Pederson entered Pitt infamy and destroyed the Script, replacing it with torch cuts and panther teeth.
Thank goodness those days are over... for the most part.
Thank goodness those days are over... for the most part.
20 years ago today...
- Thread starter HailToPitt725
- Start date
It was a diversion to deflect attention from the actual management of the teams and the abysmal results. And it worked, to an extent ... much anger got defected to a benign thing like a logo. Peterman was likely a bit surprised he was pulled along with it as an object of derision though. But the paycheck cashed either way.
They continue with these changes periodically today for the same reason.
I'll be kind of surprised if there isn't something in the works for the upcoming basketball season, like announcing the new cat logo or something, to try to draw attention away from the abomination that its going to be.
They continue with these changes periodically today for the same reason.
I'll be kind of surprised if there isn't something in the works for the upcoming basketball season, like announcing the new cat logo or something, to try to draw attention away from the abomination that its going to be.
At that time we were so bad, we needed a rebranding. Glad script is back now.
At that particular time it really wasn't a bad idea. As much as I always loved (and love) the script Pitt, the football program was absolutely dead and buried. The men's basketball program was God-awful. If anyone thinks fan interest is low right now, you have either forgotten how bad it was or else you weren't alive yet.
I'm not going to defend Petersen, especially not his second round at Pitt, but he actually managed to pump some life into a corpse when he first arrived.
I'm not going to defend Petersen, especially not his second round at Pitt, but he actually managed to pump some life into a corpse when he first arrived.
We didn't need freaking rebranding. We needed Administrative support for the program and better players. It took a boob to get rid of the script as some kind of an answer to our problems back then. And a boob is what we had.
Go watch 72-0 against OSU on Youtube with script.
Then watch games in '97 when the team was becoming better. You won't mind the change so much.
So many times uniforms and logos are their attachments are based on seeing good times or bad times in them. It had gotten to the point that times were SO bad that it began to be associated with a loser. However, eventually, it was the only logo that represented "great" years, despite some decent years with some great players in dinocat.
Think of the Pirates sleeveless uniforms. I liked the change at the time because the image always was Maz running around the bases in them. Also, moving in to a traditional looking park. But after watching the Pirates lose in them for 10 years, I was glad they were gone again because I started associated it with losing.
The other reason for the change came from a good thought. This is a sports crazy city and the thought was that connection to the city was lost. And they weren't wrong.
More muted colors were more popular back then too. They still look better on most clothes. However, as you got in the 2000s and colors that popped in HD because more attractive, it quickly looked dated.
Ultimately....the fact that the Panther head was just a bad logo really hurt it. I mean, people do that for a living as that's the best they could do??
A hybrid approach might have worked - a tweak to the colors and making "Pittsburgh" more visible. Keeping script as the primary logo would have not alienated the core fan base. Again, can't believe people to market research for a living and couldn't see that.
At the end of the day, it is what is is. The script is just a better logo, and the emotional attachment of great times in them furthers that connection.
Then watch games in '97 when the team was becoming better. You won't mind the change so much.
So many times uniforms and logos are their attachments are based on seeing good times or bad times in them. It had gotten to the point that times were SO bad that it began to be associated with a loser. However, eventually, it was the only logo that represented "great" years, despite some decent years with some great players in dinocat.
Think of the Pirates sleeveless uniforms. I liked the change at the time because the image always was Maz running around the bases in them. Also, moving in to a traditional looking park. But after watching the Pirates lose in them for 10 years, I was glad they were gone again because I started associated it with losing.
The other reason for the change came from a good thought. This is a sports crazy city and the thought was that connection to the city was lost. And they weren't wrong.
More muted colors were more popular back then too. They still look better on most clothes. However, as you got in the 2000s and colors that popped in HD because more attractive, it quickly looked dated.
Ultimately....the fact that the Panther head was just a bad logo really hurt it. I mean, people do that for a living as that's the best they could do??
A hybrid approach might have worked - a tweak to the colors and making "Pittsburgh" more visible. Keeping script as the primary logo would have not alienated the core fan base. Again, can't believe people to market research for a living and couldn't see that.
At the end of the day, it is what is is. The script is just a better logo, and the emotional attachment of great times in them furthers that connection.
The other I really never understood was the "Pitt" "Pittsburgh" thing.Peterson made it sound like being called Pitt was like a derogatory thing.The school was named after a persons last name for God sakes.They better learn from this and never make that mistake again.Surely nobody would be that dumb,would they?
Logos don't administer and fund programs, hire the coaches, nor handle discipline and academics strategically like their peers. Logos don't recruit the players and coach the games. Logos don't play and win the games.
The New England Patriots of today have hideous uniforms and blah colors. Their 70s and 80s look popped much better, the rich red shirts and white helmets with the Patriot in the 3 point stance. But what team is better?
The New England Patriots of today have hideous uniforms and blah colors. Their 70s and 80s look popped much better, the rich red shirts and white helmets with the Patriot in the 3 point stance. But what team is better?
The other thing about the change was.He rolls out the new stuff in early Aug or later? A lot of us were impatient to see the new uniforms a year ago last spring when a change was to be made.Times have changed in twenty years.
Very true and well said. Plus, Pitt needed money and Steve found a way to infuse instant $$ into the coffers. How many new logo shirts did you buy? My family bought a ton.
However, Pittlaw not happy.
Tami
And let's face it, his first two big hires football (Walt) and basketball (Ben) were great hires, probably better hires than any AD has made 20 years prior or since.
Agreed. And this is far more important than a logo or color change.
In addition to the hires, they were given the freedom to bring in a wholesale group of juco players to fill in the enormous dearth of serviceable players. I'm sure these guys weren't boy scouts or Rhodes scholars. I don't imagine this pleased the hoity-toities in the paneled offices so i can imagine Pederson had to run a little interference. He didn't seem to win those battles in the second go around, when Nordy and now Gallagher have us back on the "unsuccess with honor" track. Graham and Chryst needed to do similar, especially with QB, and did not ... and subsequently those seasons were mostly wastes of time.
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He did pretty good his first trip here. We should be thankful for that.
The entire re-branding, and everything associated with it (Dinocat, eliminating "Pitt", Torch cut numbers, Vegas gold) were nothing short of disastrous.
Pitt had very little going for it in the late 90's, and Pederson took the one last point of pride and threw it away. Banished from the land. For no other reason than he could.
Neither I, nor anyone I know bought any of the Dinocat or Torch Cut stuff.
Game announcers would chuckle when they would "mistakenly" call the team "Pitt" during a game, and announce that the new AD isn't going to be happy with them, because he forbade the use of "Pitt" during a broadcast.
The whole "Torch Cut" number combined with "Pittsburgh only" fiasco was the result of a Marketing firm trying way too hard. Forcing something never works. The only reason I can think of for a professional Marketing firm to ever make a decision that bad is if someone like Pederson forced them to.
Pitt had very little going for it in the late 90's, and Pederson took the one last point of pride and threw it away. Banished from the land. For no other reason than he could.
Neither I, nor anyone I know bought any of the Dinocat or Torch Cut stuff.
Game announcers would chuckle when they would "mistakenly" call the team "Pitt" during a game, and announce that the new AD isn't going to be happy with them, because he forbade the use of "Pitt" during a broadcast.
The whole "Torch Cut" number combined with "Pittsburgh only" fiasco was the result of a Marketing firm trying way too hard. Forcing something never works. The only reason I can think of for a professional Marketing firm to ever make a decision that bad is if someone like Pederson forced them to.
Sonny Vicaro is responsible for Ben Howland coming to Pitt. Pederson's role was that he didn't screw it up by saying no.
Did Penn State change their colors and uniform as a result of the worst scandle in football history? Did they ask people to stop saying Penn State and instead use Pennsylvania State?
Has any other major program made such big changes in modern history?
The answer, I believe, is no. Of course, Pitt is smarter than everyone else.
Has any other major program made such big changes in modern history?
The answer, I believe, is no. Of course, Pitt is smarter than everyone else.
Pedo St is too big to fail. Pitt fans are softer than wet tissue paper, and self implode.
The only thing that I strongly objected to is that they made the Proud Pitt Panther look like a dog. I chose to wear nothing with that gawd-awful graphic.
In an effort to get more people to come to games that hadn't been, and I believe right around the same time (although it may have been a year or two later) there were talks of moving out of pitt stadium. Pederson wanted to appeal to essentially the "casual yinzer fans". Claiming the "Pittsburgh Panthers" were Pittsburgh's college team.
Idk though, Pitt, Pittsburgh, whatever, they're the local team. You're either a Pitt(sburgh) fan or not. I see what he was thinking, but it really didn't help. I think there was more excitement in '05 when they went back to being called Pitt.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
We screamed for script for years, got it, and now the crap marketing Pederson shoved down our throat wasn't so bad?
You guys are weird.
You guys are weird.
Pitt had a period of 5 losing seasons in a row in the 90s, with the worst being a 2 win season. They decided to change the colors, name, uniforms, logo, and stadium.
The following ACC teams have had 5 or more consecutive losing seasons over the last 30 years:
Wake
BC
Cuse
NC
Duke (18x)
Virginia (currently)
None came close to making such large changes. Duke had games with 15k people in attendance. Wake had games with 12k people. BC had games with under 14k people.
So let's stop with the nonsense that Pitt's attendance issues and poor teams demanded a complete overhaul. All that it demanded was a half decent coach and more support from the administration.
The following ACC teams have had 5 or more consecutive losing seasons over the last 30 years:
Wake
BC
Cuse
NC
Duke (18x)
Virginia (currently)
None came close to making such large changes. Duke had games with 15k people in attendance. Wake had games with 12k people. BC had games with under 14k people.
So let's stop with the nonsense that Pitt's attendance issues and poor teams demanded a complete overhaul. All that it demanded was a half decent coach and more support from the administration.
It was as stupid then as it seems looking back. We were, are, and will always be Pitt.
Yes, they actually did try to change their primary logo after the scandal. Didn't take.
"Did Penn State change their colors and uniform as a result of the worst scandal in football history? Did they ask people to stop saying Penn State and instead use Pennsylvania State?"
Just admit that Pitt Steve screwed up.
As I remember people didn't really hate it, I went right out and bought a new t shirt, and when we beat Miami on National TV, then went to a bowl game people where pumped for the first time in many years.
You're absolutely right of course. It was all a diversionary tactic, as mentioned.
I've said that many times. The proof of that it was a mistake is the logo that is in use now, which should be used perpetually from here on out, and universally across the university. Unfortunately, the university is still mucking around with rebranding this or that (just go to pitt.edu) and can't get anything consistent across the university. "Pitt" remains a brand seldom recognized outside the region or outside college sports fans because the university has no idea how to market itself.
That said, people tend to not recognize know how bad of shape the athletic department, and school overall, was in 1996, and now little support there was for it in the region. There actually wasn't a whole lot of outcry when the change was made because there were so few people that cared actually were left and those that did were willing to try just about anything because it was teetering on a cliff. Trying to tie Pitt sports more closely to the inherent sense of pride the city has for itself was not an idea without merit. It was just poorly executed.
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Well, I went to pitt.edu and see we have yet another new logo of sorts!
Yes, and they've change the font of the university word mark placed in the front page header... a font and style that has been used for about 30 years, and also removed the seal as part of the primary branding with the word mark. Not that it has been done universally across the website because they are incompetent.
Note that the prior wordmark font is also the same font used by UPMC, so I doubly think it is doubly dumb to remove yourself even further from that branding and not to take advantage of the statewide marketing push being done by the medical center.
At least the Alumni Association was smart enough to drop their short lived block logo and adopt the script. The university should be using the script everywhere...not coming up with yet another "Pitt" word mark.
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Rocky - Thanks for being a voice of common sense and reason.
The late, great Beano Cook - the "Pope" of College Football and arguably the most knowledgeable source ever pertaining to Pitt athletics, said this of the AD hired 20 years ago: "Steve Pederson SAVED Pitt football"
Nothing less. A thousand and one revisionist experts on this board who think they could have done better rip this guy to shreds. NONE have a clue as to the state that Pitt athletics, football in particular, were in when Steve took over. Extreme circumstances require extreme measures. He took them... created a new image for Pitt, moved the football program into new and better digs. Set the foundation for a hoops program that was a Top 10 entity via the Petersen Center.
But the SCRIPT! He stole our SCRIPT! And Pitt Stadium (which I loved, btw)... he stole our on-campus gem of a football facility. Which, quoting Beano again, "was a dump... it was built for an era when the public got around via street cars"
But he called us "PITTSBURGH"!! (Ahh, that's what it says on my diploma. That's what we're cited as in virtually every listing of our team in print, on TV, in rankings, etc. Pittsburgh is much more widely identified word than the colloquial "Pitt". And!! Steve never banned PITT. He simply used the full name of city who is the namesake of our university more frequently and had the temerity to put that on the uniforms.
The dude was TRYING to breathe some life into Pitt.
Very few city-based universities even try to have big time sports... let along a football program that coexists in the smallest metro area in the USA that supports (3) pro sports franchises; one of which (Steelers) is clearly one of the Top 5 iconic sports teams in the nation and the other of which (Pens) has been a tremendous success over most of the last 15 years.
It ain't easy being a success in sports at Pitt... Steve P guaranteed the existence of Pitt Athletics via our move into the ACC. Survival can be success. For that Panther fans should be grateful. But... this being Pitt, they're world class moaners instead.
The late, great Beano Cook - the "Pope" of College Football and arguably the most knowledgeable source ever pertaining to Pitt athletics, said this of the AD hired 20 years ago: "Steve Pederson SAVED Pitt football"
Nothing less. A thousand and one revisionist experts on this board who think they could have done better rip this guy to shreds. NONE have a clue as to the state that Pitt athletics, football in particular, were in when Steve took over. Extreme circumstances require extreme measures. He took them... created a new image for Pitt, moved the football program into new and better digs. Set the foundation for a hoops program that was a Top 10 entity via the Petersen Center.
But the SCRIPT! He stole our SCRIPT! And Pitt Stadium (which I loved, btw)... he stole our on-campus gem of a football facility. Which, quoting Beano again, "was a dump... it was built for an era when the public got around via street cars"
But he called us "PITTSBURGH"!! (Ahh, that's what it says on my diploma. That's what we're cited as in virtually every listing of our team in print, on TV, in rankings, etc. Pittsburgh is much more widely identified word than the colloquial "Pitt". And!! Steve never banned PITT. He simply used the full name of city who is the namesake of our university more frequently and had the temerity to put that on the uniforms.
The dude was TRYING to breathe some life into Pitt.
Very few city-based universities even try to have big time sports... let along a football program that coexists in the smallest metro area in the USA that supports (3) pro sports franchises; one of which (Steelers) is clearly one of the Top 5 iconic sports teams in the nation and the other of which (Pens) has been a tremendous success over most of the last 15 years.
It ain't easy being a success in sports at Pitt... Steve P guaranteed the existence of Pitt Athletics via our move into the ACC. Survival can be success. For that Panther fans should be grateful. But... this being Pitt, they're world class moaners instead.
Yeah. SP "saved" Pitt football, but can't get a job as AD anywhere else. Hmm?
Lol. I was at that game and got escorted from the horseshoe right before halftime. An older Pitt fan screamed at Cooper for passing for a TD right before halftime.
Some OSU fan told the old guy to STFU and I commented on stop picking on an old guy, I'm right here.
So he took a swing and a miss, fell down into our row, and I proceeded to pummel him lol.
Went to a bar and had a few beers with Eddie George a few hours later.
The Ohio State troopers were very nice I might add.
He absolutely helped. There was a movement within the university to drop football all together. If you have the wrong administrators in place at that time, the damage could have been substantial because the whole university was fragile. Very easily, Pitt might now be stuck in a conference with ECU and Temple...and that's not even the worst possible alternative history.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Or he kept Pitt in the BE too long. The story just depends on which way the wind is blowing on this board.
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