A fascinating analysis opportunity for a good reporter...

[PITTsburghFAN]

... trace what happened to the Dixon tenure at Pitt.

I'm not a hoops expert. Never played the game organized nor coached. So I can only go by what my eye tells me. Have attended Pitt hoop games regularly since the opening of the Pete.

Here's what fascinates (in a disappointing manner) me: The first 2/3rds or 3/4ths of the Jamie Dixon era at Pitt were the equal of any sustained success that Pittsburgh athletics has seen. Pro or collegiate. The nation's toughest hoops conference with a roster of its greatest-ever coaches.

He posts the best-ever winning performance in that conference and along the way posts astounding records against Top 10 teams, home-court winning percentages, 1-on-1 vs. Hall of Fame coaches records. On-and-on. And Dixon does it with good kids and most typically less gifted talent that he coaches-up to playing terrifically as a team. A couple times we sit atop the national rankings, a couple of NCAA #1 seeds and Pitt becomes the darling of Manhattan during Big East Tournaments.

Then, the Big East implosion and move to ACC. And here's what gets me - a goodly portion of the best of the ACC was ALREADY IN THE BIG EAST when Dixon was having that great success. Louisville, Syracuse, Miami. BC was in the BE. Duke and North Carolina are obviously new forces to be reckoned with, but neither was much, if any, better than UConn when Jamie was going toe-to-toe with Jimmy Calhoun. Throw in Georgetown and Villanova, St. John's and Marquette and WVU on occasion, and I do NOT think that the ACC that Pitt entered was much different, talent-wise, than the old Big East.

And Jamie ruled that Big East... of course, by a small margin given its incredible talent. But over a decade or so (regular season and conference tourny), Dixon's corpus opus shows that he sat atop the heap.

Then... in the inevitable nod to the realities of conference alignment and football primacy... we go to the ACC. We all know Dixon didn't like seeing the Big East dissolve, but he was a good soldier about it. He and Boeheim pretty much accepted the situation.

And, the wheels pretty much start coming off. Not in a sudden flame out. But steadily we came back to the pack, then fell solidly into the middle of it.

It's clear that the lack of talent was the central cause. While we didn't typically have elite talent, we had deep teams that meshed well. From Jaron Brown and Julius Page, to Chevy Troutman, Aaron Gray, Levon Kendall, to Big Fella and Sam. And that stream of gritty tough guards - starting with Brandin to Krauser to Ramon to Fields and Gibbs and even JRob.

And now a cupboard with two great forwards (although, I'd argue, not vastly better than any number of solid forwards we've seen come through Pitt) and very little else.

Fans can bitch that we should have hired some hot young up 'n comer coach. I'd counter that Stallings was reasonable and viable choice... playing a style that fans like better (the anger towards Jamie's style of play was becoming universal) and with a record of recruiting well in a difficult and selective admissions environment.

But Stallings vs. anyone else at this juncture is really not the issue. The dearth of talent on this team makes all other topics a moot point. Something went wrong with the Dixon program and it is, to me, fascinating to wonder what it was. Why did could we no longer attract sufficient top-level talent or, on the other hand, enough "solid" and "mesh-able" talent that he used to have and win with.

As noted, I'm not a hoops expert so I'm more fascinated and wondering than I am accusatory. Jamie was (is) a great coach and - virtually unique among those in his profession - an even better person. I'll always love what he and Ben Howland did here.

But how the program collapsed? Sadly fascinating.

 

[PITTsburghFAN]

So I made clear I'm not a hoops expert and that I'm bewildered WHY Dixon couldn't keep recruiting talent to Pitt upon the move to the ACC... noting that the Big East was every bit the equal of the ACC when Dixon was at the top of his game.

Was it a single sequence of events that started it? The Steve Adams departure and Khem Birch? So many smart and opinionated posters here... would love to hear from a few of you as to what in the hell happened that we now have days like the Miami game yesterday???

That would have been unthinkable 5 years ago

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

He had a bad recruiting cycle, it happens.

Just that simple.

He obviously didn't feel he was given the budget or support to improve it so he finally took another job.

When the Rowan and Heron commitments evaporated and we hired the staff we had to replace them...
Maybe Dixon simply realized his hands were being tied and left?

 

[CrazyPaco]

So I made clear I'm not a hoops expert and that I'm bewildered WHY Dixon couldn't keep recruiting talent to Pitt upon the move to the ACC... noting that the Big East was every bit the equal of the ACC when Dixon was at the top of his game.

Was it a single sequence of events that started it? The Steve Adams departure and Khem Birch? So many smart and opinionated posters here... would love to hear from a few of you as to what in the hell happened that we now have days like the Miami game yesterday???

That would have been unthinkable 5 years ago

It would have been unthinkable this time last year.

Jamie leaving had more to do with the administrative turnover than any conference switch or recruiting misses. The people he was loyal to were gone and the new man in charge was an absolute ass hat.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

The Khem Birch transfer and Steven Adams early departures hurt for sure. These guys were huge recruiting successes, bigger than most JD saw here. In Adams's case we lost a guy who was capable of elevating a mediocre team to FF level. Can you imagine if he was on the team in the following years with Patterson, Zanna, and Robinson? We'd have been nearly unstoppable. But after Adams left I think JD was playing recruiting catch-up which led to a number of grad transfers the last few years (most unsuccessful). I think all JD needed to turn things around was one solid recruiting class featuring an athletic big and a good PG. I'm not sure how likely such a class would have been given our recruiting struggles and general downward trend. It felt like we were a sinking ship.

And I'm not the world's biggest KS fan. But he deserves a chance given how thin our roster was when he took over. I think we are seeing that KS style doesn't mesh well with our current roster. While we have talent, the style KS wants to play requires talent AND a high degree of basketball IQ/self discipline. I'm not saying these guys aren't smart, far from it. But I think perhaps we are seeing why JD played such a rigid, locked down style. It's what our current roster needs. I believe this is a much different team with a solid floor general PG running the show. JD usually had those but we don't have one now.

 

[TheNoise88]

Pittsburgh media could, should invest some time to expose what went down with JD. Just like they really should dig and pick apart the ugly Barnes/Stalling manipulation. Or going back, the reasoning behind the Matt House hiring. Or before that, what went down to drive Graham screaming and fleeing into the night, literally.

Pittsburgh media is low grade dog food, with lazy members who do little more than raid the free food at games and events, and jockey to kiss the Steelers and Penguins and PSU's asses. So they're inherently slothful and unethical to begin with.

But beyond that, I think they're happy to sit back and allow Pitt to keep crapping its own bed. Exposing the putrid decisions behind the abysmal moves that have been made might possibly embarrass and motivate real positive change in Pitt athletics, which is a (deep, deep) sleeping giant. Pitt has enormous resources, and channeled properly, could produce juggernauts beyond sports ... academically and politically as well. The Steelers wouldn't like that challenge, nor would the greedy, sleazy Pittsburgh city government that has made a convenient bogeyman to cover up all its corruption and waste. If only Pitt / UPMC would pay it's FAIR SHARE...

So it's really better to just report the hideous personnel moves and scores with no analysis (because really, they are bad enough to do harm on their own, by keeping Pitt perpetually unpopular). Minimize the occasional positive development. Augment with the occasional snide column when there is no Steeler or Penguin or PSU positive news. Rinse and repeat.

 

[crosbymalkin8771]

He had a bad recruiting cycle, it happens.

Just that simple.

He obviously didn't feel he was given the budget or support to improve it so he finally took another job.

When the Rowan and Heron commitments evaporated and we hired the staff we had to replace them...
Maybe Dixon simply realized his hands were being tied and left?

Can't blame Dixon I guess. Invigorating a program, especially your alma mater, brings way more satisfaction than staying here where things seemingly got stale.

Jamie stays and takes this team into the tournament as a 9-11 seed vs. going to TCU, overachieving and taking that team in as a 9-11 seed... gets waaay more credit there, all about the expectations.

I thought it would take a few years to get TCU into the tournament, but in the early going it is looking possible this year. Which is very impressive. And frustrating for us, but it is what it is.

 

[88Pitt88]

Can't blame Dixon I guess. Invigorating a program, especially your alma mater, brings way more satisfaction than staying here where things seemingly got stale.

Jamie stays and takes this team into the tournament as a 9-11 seed vs. going to TCU, overachieving and taking that team in as a 9-11 seed... gets waaay more credit there, all about the expectations.

I thought it would take a few years to get TCU into the tournament, but in the early going it is looking possible this year. Which is very impressive. And frustrating for us, but it is what it is.

... trace what happened to the Dixon tenure at Pitt.

I'm not a hoops expert. Never played the game organized nor coached. So I can only go by what my eye tells me. Have attended Pitt hoop games regularly since the opening of the Pete.

Here's what fascinates (in a disappointing manner) me: The first 2/3rds or 3/4ths of the Jamie Dixon era at Pitt were the equal of any sustained success that Pittsburgh athletics has seen. Pro or collegiate. The nation's toughest hoops conference with a roster of its greatest-ever coaches.

He posts the best-ever winning performance in that conference and along the way posts astounding records against Top 10 teams, home-court winning percentages, 1-on-1 vs. Hall of Fame coaches records. On-and-on. And Dixon does it with good kids and most typically less gifted talent that he coaches-up to playing terrifically as a team. A couple times we sit atop the national rankings, a couple of NCAA #1 seeds and Pitt becomes the darling of Manhattan during Big East Tournaments.

Then, the Big East implosion and move to ACC. And here's what gets me - a goodly portion of the best of the ACC was ALREADY IN THE BIG EAST when Dixon was having that great success. Louisville, Syracuse, Miami. BC was in the BE. Duke and North Carolina are obviously new forces to be reckoned with, but neither was much, if any, better than UConn when Jamie was going toe-to-toe with Jimmy Calhoun. Throw in Georgetown and Villanova, St. John's and Marquette and WVU on occasion, and I do NOT think that the ACC that Pitt entered was much different, talent-wise, than the old Big East.

And Jamie ruled that Big East... of course, by a small margin given its incredible talent. But over a decade or so (regular season and conference tourny), Dixon's corpus opus shows that he sat atop the heap.

Then... in the inevitable nod to the realities of conference alignment and football primacy... we go to the ACC. We all know Dixon didn't like seeing the Big East dissolve, but he was a good soldier about it. He and Boeheim pretty much accepted the situation.

And, the wheels pretty much start coming off. Not in a sudden flame out. But steadily we came back to the pack, then fell solidly into the middle of it.

It's clear that the lack of talent was the central cause. While we didn't typically have elite talent, we had deep teams that meshed well. From Jaron Brown and Julius Page, to Chevy Troutman, Aaron Gray, Levon Kendall, to Big Fella and Sam. And that stream of gritty tough guards - starting with Brandin to Krauser to Ramon to Fields and Gibbs and even JRob.

And now a cupboard with two great forwards (although, I'd argue, not vastly better than any number of solid forwards we've seen come through Pitt) and very little else.

Fans can bitch that we should have hired some hot young up 'n comer coach. I'd counter that Stallings was reasonable and viable choice... playing a style that fans like better (the anger towards Jamie's style of play was becoming universal) and with a record of recruiting well in a difficult and selective admissions environment.

But Stallings vs. anyone else at this juncture is really not the issue. The dearth of talent on this team makes all other topics a moot point. Something went wrong with the Dixon program and it is, to me, fascinating to wonder what it was. Why did could we no longer attract sufficient top-level talent or, on the other hand, enough "solid" and "mesh-able" talent that he used to have and win with.

As noted, I'm not a hoops expert so I'm more fascinated and wondering than I am accusatory. Jamie was (is) a great coach and - virtually unique among those in his profession - an even better person. I'll always love what he and Ben Howland did here.

But how the program collapsed? Sadly fascinating.

There was a thread on here a while back, (can't remember the title) explaining the demise of the program and more specifically the problems with Jamie's recruiting.

As I recall, DT , did a very good job outlining the issues that caused the downfall. Some on here know as much or more than any of the Pittsburgh media. Perhaps the greatest of the problems was burning recruiting ties over east when Jaylen Bond got the shaft to accomodate Khem. We are still paying for that today, as we cannot smell a player from Philly or its suburbs.

 

[PITT92DOG]

There was a thread on here a while back, (can't remember the title) explaining the demise of the program and more specifically the problems with Jamie's recruiting.

As I recall, DT , did a very good job outlining the issues that caused the downfall. Some on here know as much or more than any of the Pittsburgh media. Perhaps the greatest of the problems was burning recruiting ties over east when Jaylen Bond got the shaft to accomodate Khem. We are still paying for that today, as we cannot smell a player from Philly or its suburbs.

I don't understand the Philly thing. I have heard that and it can't explain everything. Bond was decent recruit I can't see that hurting recruiting in DC, NYC or the Me prep scene. Unless Dixon did something real real dirty with Bond it just doesn't come close to accounting for the precipitous drop in recruiting.

 

[drp1tt]

He had a bad recruiting cycle, it happens.

Just that simple.

He obviously didn't feel he was given the budget or support to improve it so he finally took another job.

When the Rowan and Heron commitments evaporated and we hired the staff we had to replace them...
Maybe Dixon simply realized his hands were being tied and left?

Personally I get tired of the faux budget crap. He was the highest paid employee and was given the keys. $$ was never the problem. I think his style caught up to him and he was too stubborn to change. Even coach K changed.

 

[88Pitt88]

Personally I get tired of the faux budget crap. He was the highest paid employee and was given the keys. $$ was never the problem. I think his style caught up to him and he was too stubborn to change. Even coach K changed.

Ironically, It was his willingness to change his recruiting style and pursue higher rated kids that were never the foundation of this program that led to his demise. We all hoped Jamie could build this into a machine that could be a top 10 program year over year. In retrospect, everyone including Jamie and myself, should have been happy with what we were doing. Sometimes you don't know what you've got till its gone! The want for more inspires many to shoot for the stars, but often times it can shoot you in the foot!

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Personally I get tired of the faux budget crap. He was the highest paid employee and was given the keys. $$ was never the problem. I think his style caught up to him and he was too stubborn to change. Even coach K changed.

Is it faux?
Think we are paying more, less. Or the same now?

 

[NTOP]

Ironically, It was his willingness to change his recruiting style and pursue higher rated kids that were never the foundation of this program that led to his demise. We all hoped Jamie could build this into a machine that could be a top 10 program year over year. In retrospect, everyone including Jamie and myself, should have been happy with what we were doing. Sometimes you don't know what you've got till its gone! The want for more inspires many to shoot for the stars, but often times it can shoot you in the foot!

I said back then I wanted him to stay on the same track he started. But people wanted a "different style" of hoops. I'll take ALL of Dixon's PGs over Artis at that position. The cuse abused us with 2 grad transfers, BTW.

 

[Pitt Law '04]

I said back then I wanted him to stay on the same track he started. But people wanted a "different style" of hoops. I'll take ALL of Dixon's PGs over Artis at that position. The cuse abused us with 2 grad transfers, BTW.

Let me get this straight. Your point is Jamie changed his recruiting style and the types of players he recruited because "people wanted a 'different style' of hoops." If he did change his style due to fan complaints, that's a pretty big indictment.

 

[NTOP]

Let me get this straight. Your point is Jamie changed his recruiting style and the types of players he recruited because "people wanted a 'different style' of hoops." If he did change his style due to fan complaints, that's a pretty big indictment.

He screwed up on that. Perhaps he believed the media hype that the ACC was a better conference because it was less physical? I doubt he reads the Lair anymore.

 

[PITT92DOG]

I said back then I wanted him to stay on the same track he started. But people wanted a "different style" of hoops. I'll take ALL of Dixon's PGs over Artis at that position. The cuse abused us with 2 grad transfers, BTW.

There is no one else to play PG. He is play there out of desperation. You deity JD left with no PG on the roster.

 

[NTOP]

There is no one else to play PG. He is play there out of desperation. You deity JD left with no PG on the roster.

Do you work for PGT??

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I don't understand the Philly thing. I have heard that and it can't explain everything. Bond was decent recruit I can't see that hurting recruiting in DC, NYC or the Me prep scene. Unless Dixon did something real real dirty with Bond it just doesn't come close to accounting for the precipitous drop in recruiting.

Bond signed an LOI. Then Birch reclassified. Then Bond was "let out of" his LOI. Most feel he was encouraged to request his release. Regardless Dixon was shot in Philly and never recovered from it.

 

[NTOP]

Bond signed an LOI. Then Birch reclassified. Then Bond was "let out of" his LOI. Most feel he was encouraged to request his release. Regardless Dixon was shot in Philly and never recovered from it.

Basically, Jamie got out of his comfort zone.....and it hurt him.

 

[freddietee511]

Tcu is scoring well this year

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

There is no one else to play PG. He is play there out of desperation. You deity JD left with no PG on the roster.

Damon Wilson and kitcart.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

Ironically, It was his willingness to change his recruiting style and pursue higher rated kids that were never the foundation of this program that led to his demise. We all hoped Jamie could build this into a machine that could be a top 10 program year over year. In retrospect, everyone including Jamie and myself, should have been happy with what we were doing. Sometimes you don't know what you've got till its gone! The want for more inspires many to shoot for the stars, but often times it can shoot you in the foot!

I said that from day one. If you continue to get there, eventually you will get the breaks and get over the hump. Jamie changed what he did best and the kind of guys he recruited and it didn't work.

 

[PITT92DOG]

Bond signed an LOI. Then Birch reclassified. Then Bond was "let out of" his LOI. Most feel he was encouraged to request his release. Regardless Dixon was shot in Philly and never recovered from it.

I get how the details but don't understand how it devastated recruiting so much. Maybe hurt in Philly but there is a ton of other areas to recruit. Also other schools have done the similar deal but on Pitt gets shut out. Seems there is more to this than what you described.

 

[PITT92DOG]

Damon Wilson and kitcart.

yeah ok they are ready. wilson will never be ready.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

yeah ok they are ready. wilson will never be ready.

They are who we have .
Damon played last year ..if our coaches don't have him ready for an expanded role, and failed to attract a transfer or juco for a stop gap..shame on them.

Artis at the point has us 1-4 in conference.

What are we going to lose?

 

[33pitt99]

Personally I get tired of the faux budget crap. He was the highest paid employee and was given the keys. $$ was never the problem. I think his style caught up to him and he was too stubborn to change. Even coach K changed.

I do know that the coaches did not have access to charter/private jets until last season. They had to fly commercial to visit recruits, which anyone who lives in Pgh knows can be difficult with the reductions in flights to/from PIT. I was told that they often were unable to visit recruits for games because the last flight into PIT from many cities was too early for them to see a game and/or potentially visit with the recruit and still get back for practices or other required activities.

Of note, apparently Barnes must have gotten this issue resolved last year, but from what I gather, it affected our recruiting for several years, becoming worse as the Pgh airport continued to have declining usage. So, while his salary was high, it seemed as though he didn't have the level of support other coaches have for recruiting. I know this will be construed as just another excuse by many on this board, but I think it's important for people to have some facts.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I've personally ran into Dixon and staff in airports for commercial flights over the years

 

[drp1tt]

I do know that the coaches did not have access to charter/private jets until last season. They had to fly commercial to visit recruits, which anyone who lives in Pgh knows can be difficult with the reductions in flights to/from PIT. I was told that they often were unable to visit recruits for games because the last flight into PIT from many cities was too early for them to see a game and/or potentially visit with the recruit and still get back for practices or other required activities.

Of note, apparently Barnes must have gotten this issue resolved last year, but from what I gather, it affected our recruiting for several years, becoming worse as the Pgh airport continued to have declining usage. So, while his salary was high, it seemed as though he didn't have the level of support other coaches have for recruiting. I know this will be construed as just another excuse by many on this board, but I think it's important for people to have some facts.

Sounds fair enough. I wonder if schools like Xavier, Butler, etc. have private access to planes. Just curious because some of these upper mid-majors always seem to recruit very well.