ACC records set???

[Sean Miller Fan]

First 23 win P6 team to get left out?

First 13 win (conference game) P6 team to get left out

First 12 win (in conference) team to get left out (UVa and Wake)

First 4 game above .500 ACC team to get left out (UVa and Wake)

Lowest average seed in ACC history

Lowest percentage of teams (33%) selected in ACC history

Is there anything the ACC can do to improve or do we just say "its cyclical" and wait 5 years?

I think Phillips has to hire a consulting firm to look at ACC basketball budgets, coaching budgets and try to find some answers to what's holding the league back.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

I wonder sometimes if having one giant regular season division dilutes things. It definitely does interest wise for me. Not sure about the talent. The rosters overall are the weakest ever.

 

[whirlybird optio]

First 23 win P6 team to get left out?

First 13 win (conference game) P6 team to get left out

First 12 win (in conference) team to get left out (UVa and Wake)

First 4 game above .500 ACC team to get left out (UVa and Wake)

Lowest average seed in ACC history

Lowest percentage of teams (33%) selected in ACC history

Is there anything the ACC can do to improve or do we just say "its cyclical" and wait 5 years?

I think Phillips has to hire a consulting firm to look at ACC basketball budgets, coaching budgets and try to find some answers to what's holding the league back.

I saw Rutgers had the lowest Net ranking of any at-large team to make the field in like 30 years. I think Michigan was the first team to be 4 games over .500 or less to make the field since 2000.

The OOC matters, clearly.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

As I understand it, the NCAA is no longer factoring late season improved performance in the tournament selections in additions to heavily weighting OOC results.

This scenario--big emphasis on OOC records and overall body of work helps teams that are strong early and fade somewhat in league play and hurts teams that are weaker early but get better later in the season. It is clear that Virginia Tech would have been left out if they hadn't won the ACC Tournament due to these factors.

Question: Is this a fairer way to do the selections than in the past?

IMHO--the answer is maybe not-- given the expanded conference schedules and shrunk OOC schedule plus essentially all the OOC games played before January. This favors teams with many returning starters who will fare best in the OOC vs rebuilding teams who will get better as the season progresses.

 

[Gep Dawg]

I think the NCAA is doing everything it can to help mid majors. So it's not good enough anymore to play a week OOC and then expect if you win enough in conference games you are good. Especially since in conference schedules are not balanced and equal anymore. I think divisions would help and ACC has to play more tough OOC games early.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I wonder sometimes if having one giant regular season division dilutes things. It definitely does interest wise for me. Not sure about the talent. The rosters overall are the weakest ever.

No. The Big Ten plays 20. The teams just need to get better somehow.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

ACC is just really bad, and it's no secret. Champion an 11-seed? Ouch. Second place team an 8? Third place team relegated to a play-in game. Just... wow. Kudos on them for not relenting because of the brand value, because the eye test has told me all year that this conference sucks right now. I don't know that we'd have won three games in a more traditional year for the conference.

How many ACC teams will be left after the first weekend? I would imagine just one or, at the most, two.

And Wake didn't even get a one-seed in the NIT. I'm not sure if that can be interpreted as them not even being one of the first four out, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were.

 

[pittchagg]

I think the NCAA is doing everything it can to help mid majors. So it's not good enough anymore to play a week OOC and then expect if you win enough in conference games you are good. Especially since in conference schedules are not balanced and equal anymore. I think divisions would help and ACC has to play more tough OOC games early.

The opposite effect also happens - for the past few years you’ve seen a situation where the Big Ten does well in early-season OOC play because their teams are older and largely play a high floor/low ceiling style of play equipped to do well in the early season before more talented teams figure things out. Then, because they did well in the early season, their collective ratings are high by the time they get to conference play, where they all beat up on each other. But because they were all ranked high to begin with, they’re rewarded for beating up on each other. So they get a bunch of teams in the tournament but flame out because they have a lower ceiling and the better teams have figured things out.

It’s an inherent problem with playing all of your OOC’s in the early season, and all of your conference games at the end of the season.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

ACC is just really bad, and it's no secret. Champion an 11-seed? Ouch. Second place team an 8? Third place team relegated to a play-in game. Just... wow. Kudos on them for not relenting because of the brand value, because the eye test has told me all year that this conference sucks right now. I don't know that we'd have won three games in a more traditional year for the conference.

How many ACC teams will be left after the first weekend? I would imagine just one or, at the most, two.

And Wake didn't even get a one-seed in the NIT. I'm not sure if that can be interpreted as them not even being one of the first four out, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were.

So like what can the ACC do? Nothing? Just wait for "the cycle" to turn around?
What are some answers. I cant imagine ESPN is too happy. They've invested in a network and their basketball ratings can't be anywhere close to what they thought they'd be.

 

[FreeportPanther]

The ACC is a football league!

Or is it a women's lacrosse league???

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

So like what can the ACC do? Nothing? Just wait for "the cycle" to turn around?
What are some answers. I cant imagine ESPN is too happy. They've invested in a network and their basketball ratings can't be anywhere close to what they thought they'd be.

Well I don't think "guarantees" in the coaching field are as foolproof as you do. They're guarantees until they're not. Shaka Smart at Texas, Fred Hoiberg at Nebraska, Buzz Williams at A&M (and I know they had a decent year, but they still haven't made the tournament in his three years), modern-day Boeheim, etc., etc., etc.

No idea what the course of action is. The mid-majors seem to pay better now - relative to the competition - than they have before, and obviously the SEC is a player now. I guess I do think it'll be cyclical to a degree, though. Louisville won't suck this bad for ever. Florida State and NC State can do better. Virginia will do better. Etc.

 

[Gep Dawg]

The opposite effect also happens - for the past few years you’ve seen a situation where the Big Ten does well in early-season OOC play because their teams are older and largely play a high floor/low ceiling style of play equipped to do well in the early season before more talented teams figure things out. Then, because they did well in the early season, their collective ratings are high by the time they get to conference play, where they all beat up on each other. But because they were all ranked high to begin with, they’re rewarded for beating up on each other. So they get a bunch of teams in the tournament but flame out because they have a lower ceiling and the better teams have figured things out.

It’s an inherent problem with playing all of your OOC’s in the early season, and all of your conference games at the end of the season.

It's a great point. For now I think the ACC needs to start playing this game. But long term NCAA needs to rethink this or at least push more more OOC games later in the season.

 

[levance2]

No. The Big Ten plays 20. The teams just need to get better somehow.

The longer conference season cuts both ways. If your league is good, top to bottom, then you benefit a lot. If your league is bad, and you play two more conference games and might pick up another loss or two to bad teams, that is way worse.

If the country knows your league is trash before January, it doesn't matter if you play 10 or 30 conference games.

ACC women's volleyball was a great example this year. Pitt and Louisville played fewer conference matches than teams in the B1G or P12, but played strong OOC opponents instead and won. Playing more matches against other ACC teams would've hurt their resumes because the rest of the ACC wasn't very good.

 

[levance2]

So like what can the ACC do? Nothing? Just wait for "the cycle" to turn around?
What are some answers. I cant imagine ESPN is too happy. They've invested in a network and their basketball ratings can't be anywhere close to what they thought they'd be.

I suggested years ago that the ACC should enter into a "challenge" or scheduling agreement with at least one lower league like the A10 or American. If you lined up each league, that would be a pretty achievable win for most of the ACC.

Pitt fans won't like it, but there really is a benefit to scheduling the Jamie Dixon cupcakes. Every ACC team should be no worse than 8-3 in the OOC. Each coach should schedule accordingly to hit that 9-2 record.

 

[Pitt79]

First 23 win P6 team to get left out?

First 13 win (conference game) P6 team to get left out

First 12 win (in conference) team to get left out (UVa and Wake)

First 4 game above .500 ACC team to get left out (UVa and Wake)

If those numbers aren't enough, Pitt may never make it again.

 

[FrogmoreZeke]

I had a lot of conference pride back in the day in the BE. I do not have the same feelings for the ACC and never will. Therefore, I could care less how weak the ACC is. Screw 'em all. I hope Duke takes a major step back now that K is gone, (doubtful but one can hope). I hope UNC and UVA continue to be mediocre, (again doubtful). And I really hope Cryheim stays on longer and has to start wearing diapers on the bench, (maybe he already is). Let them all be as miserable as we are.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And Wake didn't even get a one-seed in the NIT. I'm not sure if that can be interpreted as them not even being one of the first four out, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were.

Well we know who the first four out were, and Wake wasn't one of them.

Dayton, Oklahoma, SMU, Texas A&M, in that order.

The top four seeds in the NIT are the first four teams out.