BK to St. Peter's?
- Thread starter Sean Miller Fan
- Start date
Indeed. I’ll say I actually am a fan who is sentimental to the appeal of hiring a “Pitt guy”, perhaps to a fault (my patience for Wannstedt was much greater due to his Pitt connection). But the idea of hiring BK with no HC experience at all is (not quite but nearly) as crazy as when Duquesne hired Darrelle Porter.
You cant be serious. If he gets them to the NCAAT or even close to it, he gets the Pitt job in March with a salary of $2 million +. Even if he doesn't get Pitt, he could use SPC to get another HC job in 3-5 years. Is he waiting to ONLY coach a mid-major power? Vermont? Murray State? Would he be that much better off at Rider or Monmouth or Stony Brook or Manhattan?
SPC is as good as it gets for a Rutgers assistant. They are a brand right now. For him to turn that down says to me, he only wants to be a HC if the situation is perfect and its why I wouldn't even give him an interview next March. You want the Pitt job, go coach St. Peter's
One season - and even more specifically making a nice little run in tourney time - does not equal a brand. They’re the flavor of the month and nothing more.
I really appreciate your consistency. Your only approach is to make the same (false) claim over and over hoping it becomes true. St. Peter’s is not a brand. Everyone has forgotten about them already. Other posters have already pointed out that these flash in the pans disappear in a year or two. One tourney run is not going to magically elevate a program where they have no facilities.
I have to agree. You need more than one. For the first run or so that Gonzaga had, most probably confused the name then with Gorgonzola or Garbanzo.
After several years of proving they weren’t a fluke, they have been more accepted as a hoops power and not just a school with a goofy name
By next season, people will have a hard time remembering which Cinderella of this season made the run. Some if not most will think it was Saint Louis or St. Joe’s. Just how it is.
That's nonsense. FS is correct. The only realistic read on this is that BK is smart enough to take a pass on this dog with fleas and wait for the right opportunity. There's a mid-major starter job for him out there somewhere, one where the gym roof doesn't leak and there's hot water in the shower room. And most importantly, where he doesn't have to take a pay cut.
FOR THE MID-MAJOR MARKET FOR THE TYPES OF KIDS THEY RECRUIT, THEY ARE A BRAND.
No, they aren't Gonzaga or Butler, no crap. But every recruit in America knows St. Peter's and they are in possibly the best market in the country for recruits. It gets NO better than this for a guy wanting to be a HC.
I get it, you guys want to defend BK. You think its ok for him to be comfortable until the Vermont or Iona job comes open since those are the only 2 that are good enough for him. There are many other assistants who would give their left nut to take over one of the only mid-majors in history to make an Elite 8.
Convenient that you ignore all the examples of mid majors that had tourney runs who have not been able to capitalize on that. Kudos!
In other posts, I cited that every single mid-major Elite 8 mid-major has elevated their program. Every single one. I don't give 2 shits about Sweet 16 mid-majors. There's been dozens of those. Elite 8 is different. And there's a reason every one has elevated. And for the 10th time, I'm not saying SPC is going to be Gonzaga. I think with the right coach, they have the POTENTIAL to be like a St. Mary's.
But of course they aren't good enough for Sir Brandin. No one is. He takes no risks, no chances. Just enjoys life as being 3rd chair at Rutgers. And then people will cry when he doesn't get the Pitt job in March.
Without having had a HC job before then, I will breathe a sigh of relief when he doesn’t get the Pitt job, whether next March or anytime thereafter.
He doesn't want the Pitt job that badly. His name will be tied to it, he will interview, and many Yinzers on Twitter will say he should get it but he's done nothing in the last 15 years to show people he's ready to lead a P6 program.
Good lord, no better job for someone who wants to be a head coach than St. Peter's?
Is this one of those things that you keep repeating in the hope that you can convince yourself that it's true, or is it one of those things that is so batshit crazy that you, and only you, firmly believes is true.
Name some jobs that BK can realistically get better than a mid-major that his cousin just lead to an Elite 8. I'll hang up and listen. Is he waiting for Kentucky to open?
St. Peter's isn't even the best job in the MAAC. In fact it isn't actually even close to the best job in the MAAC. And Knight, if he were interested, could get the job at any of those schools if they were to come open.
I think he might want it, just for the money.
And oddly, even if he believes privately that it wouldn’t go well at Pitt, the risk isn’t much. Failing at Pitt doesn’t seem to leave the stench on the departing coach it might elsewhere. It’s like the national reaction is, oh Pitt, they aren’t serious about winning (which is hard to argue on the surface). That was pretty much how I recall it with Graham and Stallings, two utter d-bags, yet they were treated civilly, and Graham continued to get jobs. So BK would definitely be treated well.
But no way he should get it.
Thought I saw that the SPC job might be a pay cut. Supposedly he is making $400,000 at Rutgers. No clue if accurate but that is $100,000 less than what they paid last coach.
I would like you to provide me a list of schools that, right now, are a better mid-major job that St. Peter's. They just made an Elite 8. You act like some MAAC school with a bigger budget like Marist or Quinnipiac automatically means more wins and easier to get to a P6 job.
So, again, provide me a list of potential BK jobs better than St. Peter's. Is he waiting for Vermont to open?
And I would like for you to occasionally use some common sense.
Like I said, most of the MAAC is a better job than St. Peter's. You act like one good run in one NCAA tournament has suddenly turned them from one of the worst jobs in college basketball into one of the best low major jobs. And that is just plain old nuts.
There is a far, far better chance that five years from now St. Peter's is back in obscurity than they will be a low major powerhouse.
Iona is a better job.
Since you wont answer, we'll go school by school. Which of these schools make it easier to recruit mid-major players over SPC
Manhattan? Irrelevant for a generation
Rider? No one ever heard of them
Marist? Ditto
Siena? OK, pretty good program
Quinnipiac? Nice hockey arena but no one ever heard of them
Fairfield? Huh?
Canisius? No
Niagara? No
St. Peter's, with the right coach, can VERY easily become the #2 program in the MAAC. They can sell something these next 2 cycles.
Is BK waiting for Fairfielf?
Listen, its ok to admit it. He doesn't want to be a HC that badly. He's waiting for Vermont, Murray State, or Pitt. I get it. But dont act like SPC cant be a top MAAC school considering every other mid-major had made a HUGE jump. It wouldn't even take much of a jump to go past friggin Rider and Niagara
Listen, it's OK to admit that you have no idea what you are talking about.
It is absolutely possible that St, Peter's could become one of the top MAAC schools. But even you acknowledge right there in your post that they really aren't right now. And you admit right there in your post that they need to make a jump, even a small one, to get past Rider and Niagara.
So let's put them in the MAAC right where you yourself have them. Below Rider and Niagara. You realize that that makes St. Peter's one of the worst jobs in the MAAC, not one of the best, right?
Once again, you inadvertently make my point for me.
I said none of that. The MAAC stinks. There isnt a soul alive that today, Niagara and Rider are better jobs than SPC. And even if they are. How much better are we talking? So much better that makes winning at SPC impossible.
Iona is the best right now due to Pitino and historical success. I'd go SPC #2 right now because they can sell the Elite 8 and their brand. Siena us #3. If BK goes into a living room for a kid deciding between SPC, Siena, and Rider, you best believe SPC has a pretty huge advantage there.
Three players entered the portal this morning, including key tournament players Daryl Banks and Doug Edert.
Whoever takes this job will likely not be running it back with a similar roster to Holloway's.
Whoever takes this job will likely not be running it back with a similar roster to Holloway's.
This is how the MAAC coaches ranked the jobs in the conference two years ago. Saint Peter's is dead last.
You continue to struggle to grasp that brand and tradition mean very little. It's all about resources and support. That's the stuff that attracts coaches to jobs, and it is what Saint Peter's has continuously lacked, even as it has won in the past.
Cool cool.This is how the MAAC coaches ranked the jobs in the conference two years ago. Saint Peter's is dead last.
You continue to struggle to grasp that brand and tradition mean very little. It's all about resources and support. That's the stuff that attracts coaches to jobs, and it is what Saint Peter's has continuously lacked, even as it has won in the past.
The coach of Rider and Niagara go into a home and say "come here and we'll be the next St. Peter's." Recruit: "what's the name of your school again?"
SPC coach: "You know us, we are building a Gonzaga here. Come be a part." Recruit: "But Rider is such a storied program coach, hard to say no to that."
Any parent, high school coach, AAU coach is going to listen to that new Saint Peter's coach mention Gonzaga and immediately be skeptical. And if they aren't during the conversation, they will on the unofficial and official visits when they visit Saint Peter's and see just how far behind the program is compared to its peers.
Saint Peter's had a magical run. It is nowhere close to being in position to sustain it in any meaningful way.
It will not be the next Gonzaga or anything remotely close to it.
SMF is right. St Pete's easily can become the next Gonzaga. Primarily every mid and low major doesn't aspire to that level and there is a huge void that's just looking to be filled. And most P6 schools also don't want to attain the 3 Final Four appearances, two, Elite Eight and 2 Sweet 16 appearances in the last 7 tournaments. We as Pitt fans don't want our administration to even try even though it is so easy that a 3000 student university in NJ could probably do it.
Not so sure about easily…
They’ll be lucky if this run gets them a enough of a bump in regular students to keep them afloat for a year or two.
They are in dire financial condition, losing $3mil per year. They’ve laid off dozens of employees, frozen vacant positions, stopped employer contributions to IRA’s, and numerous other cuts just to minimize the bloodshed.
They cannot spend another nickel on basketball, (unless a large directed donation comes in
Yes the Elite 8 run will get recruits to answer calls, maybe come in for a visit…
But the coach is gone, players are in the portal, and their facilities are awful by HS standards.
Actually signing those players is still going to be a challenge.
They’ll be lucky if this run gets them a enough of a bump in regular students to keep them afloat for a year or two.
They are in dire financial condition, losing $3mil per year. They’ve laid off dozens of employees, frozen vacant positions, stopped employer contributions to IRA’s, and numerous other cuts just to minimize the bloodshed.
They cannot spend another nickel on basketball, (unless a large directed donation comes in
Yes the Elite 8 run will get recruits to answer calls, maybe come in for a visit…
But the coach is gone, players are in the portal, and their facilities are awful by HS standards.
Actually signing those players is still going to be a challenge.
You are giving far too much credit to Rider, Marist, Quinnipiac, Fairfield, etc. I doubt these schools have facilities that are deal makers for recruits. No one ever heard of any of those schools. A good coach at SPC, can use their Elite 8 run to overcome the Taj Mahal facilities that MAAC schools apparently have.
You're showing your ignorance of low to mid major basketball.
Saint Peter's has two total athletic facilities on campus.
Facilities - Saint Peter's University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Saint Peter's University Peacocks
saintpeterspeacocks.com
Rider has 11, including dedicated health and sports center as well as a dedicated strength and conditioning center.
Facilities - Rider University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Rider University Broncs
gobroncs.com
Quinnipiac has 16, including one of the nicest basketball arenas in the Northeast.
M&T Bank Arena - Facilities - Quinnipiac University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Quinnipiac University Bobcats
gobobcats.com
Monmouth, which is leaving for the CAA, also has an abundance of facilities with a new gym.
OceanFirst Bank Center - Facilities - Monmouth University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Monmouth University Hawks
monmouthhawks.com
And recruits know who these schools are. Even before the tournament, Saint Peter's didn't have a single recruit committed for next season. Siena has two. Rider has three already signed. Monmouth has two.
They seem to be doing just fine for being so obscure.
On top of all that, I believe Fairfield is in the middle of building a new arena.You're showing your ignorance of low to mid major basketball.
Saint Peter's has two total athletic facilities on campus.
Facilities - Saint Peter's University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Saint Peter's University Peacocks
Rider has 11, including dedicated health and sports center as well as a dedicated strength and conditioning center.
Facilities - Rider University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Rider University Broncs
Quinnipiac has 16, including one of the nicest basketball arenas in the Northeast.
M&T Bank Arena - Facilities - Quinnipiac University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Quinnipiac University Bobcats
Monmouth, which is leaving for the CAA, also has an abundance of facilities with a new gym.
OceanFirst Bank Center - Facilities - Monmouth University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Monmouth University Hawks
And recruits know who these schools are. Even before the tournament, Saint Peter's didn't have a single recruit committed for next season. Siena has two. Rider has three already signed. Monmouth has two.
They seem to be doing just fine for being so obscure.
Why are you linking athletic facilities? Basketball players at mid-major schools need a gym, locker room, and weight room. A soccer stadium or football stadium is irrelevant to them. Aint nobody picking Rider over SPC due to their soccer stadium. At the mid-major level, St. Peter's is now a brand. Everyone knows them. Its easier to recruit there than any other MAAC school besides IonaYou're showing your ignorance of low to mid major basketball.
Saint Peter's has two total athletic facilities on campus.
Facilities - Saint Peter's University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Saint Peter's University Peacocks
Rider has 11, including dedicated health and sports center as well as a dedicated strength and conditioning center.
Facilities - Rider University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Rider University Broncs
Quinnipiac has 16, including one of the nicest basketball arenas in the Northeast.
M&T Bank Arena - Facilities - Quinnipiac University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Quinnipiac University Bobcats
Monmouth, which is leaving for the CAA, also has an abundance of facilities with a new gym.
OceanFirst Bank Center - Facilities - Monmouth University Athletics
The official facilities page for the Monmouth University Hawks
And recruits know who these schools are. Even before the tournament, Saint Peter's didn't have a single recruit committed for next season. Siena has two. Rider has three already signed. Monmouth has two.
They seem to be doing just fine for being so obscure.
You don't think facilities are an indicator of the overall investment a university makes in its sports teams? And that the investment might also include resources for basketball players? And that kids might prefer nicer resources?
You don't think that's a factor at all?
Wait. I know you don't because you still whine about how Bickell's big football gift was structured.
You're a college sports fan and you don't understand why facilities matter? Wow.
Facilities can include dedicated weight rooms and training centers available just to athletes, rather than the entire student population (which is the case at Saint Peter's). If you're a D-I basketball player, it's a bit of a drawback to have to wait to get in reps because there aren't enough machines.
Facilities also include practice courts. Monmouth's old gym is now a practice facility while they play games at their brand new arena.
Beyond that, campus life can play a factor in a recruit's decision.
Going to Saint Peter's is like going to Point Park. Outside of some signage, it's hard to tell you're even on a college campus compared to some random city block. Even Manhattan College managed to carve out some actual campus space in the middle of NYC.
Saint Peter's can get players. Pretty much every school can. Hell, Robert Morris and Duquesne can get players. But it takes a lot more than a "gym, locker room, and weight room" to build a consistently competitive high level program.
Do some research on the programs you like to point to as blueprints for Saint Peter's future success. Look to see how much money they poured into their basketball programs from a personnel, facilities, and amenities standpoint.
And yet Shaheen Holloway showed that's all that was needed. The dude WANTED it and worked for it and built it but his cousin too comfortable being 3rd chair to build upon what Holloway did.
Again, nobody's picking Rider over SPC due to the marginally better basketball facilities they have
So one year makes the MAAC like the Zags & SMC??? Pitino will move on and that noise will go quiet. The small schools in that area are not going to return to the 40's and 50's. Low enrollment + little $$$. Fordham/Manhattan/Iona, etc. were OK then.
And John Dunne got Saint Peters to the tournament before Holloway, and Ted Fiore did it twice before that.
Holloway didn't take over a barren program. Saint Peter's won 20 games the year before Dunne left and Holloway had most of the roster stick around. This year, they didn't have a single standpoint non-conference win. And they probably lucked out in the MAAC Tournament because they didn't have to face Iona. Iona beat Saint Peter's twice in the regular season, but it was upset in the MAAC quarterfinals by that Rider squad you like to dismiss.
Saint Peter's got hot at the perfect time. It had good match-ups, maintained composure under Holloway, and had good gameplans. Holloway deserves credit for his team's performance, but he's not some miracle worker.
This win will help the MAAC and probably help some with enrollment. But it's long-term impact is way overstated and likely will be insignificant. The only way to truly build on something like this is to double-down on the reinvestment, which Saint Peter's is incapable of doing.
It's all a crapshoot, anyway, and you only need to look out by the airport to see how difficult it is to build something like you're talking about.
Robert Morris went to back-to-back NCAA Tournaments under Mike Rice and promoted Andy Toole, who won 20+ games in four of his first five seasons, beat Kentucky and St. John's in the NIT, and went to the NCAA Tournament.
RMU rode a PR wave, built a new arena, won its league again in the first year of the new arena, and stepped up to the Horizon League.
It's now had two of its worst seasons in recent memory, even though Toole is still the coach. It is practically irrelevant in college basketball, outside of a punch line used against Kentucky fans - and even that has waned with Saint Peter's winning.
The basketball world moves way too fast to live on branding alone. You've got to invest, and even then, it's far from a guarantee.
I saw others mention here BK was Pikiell’s right hand man and not 3rd chair. Particularly during games.
