Anyone that does not think both Barnes and Stallings recognized it was an enormous rebuild has not examined the roster in place.
There was one more mediocre year remaining in that roster. That was it. Massive rebuild required.
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Brandin Knight
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There was one more mediocre year remaining in that roster. That was it. Massive rebuild required.
The problem is that Stallings inherited an NCAA Tourney team with 5 of 6 top scorers returning, an NBA Lottery pick and two G-League/NBA fringe players on the roster and went 4-14 in the ACC with some horrendous-looking losses (Louisville hello). If the ‘16-17 team would have contended for the NCAA Tourney — or at least reached the NIT — then he certainly would have been offered a 3rd season you would think.
Right. He deviated from his norm and pursued those who were much more likely looking for money.
You know the recruits I am talking about.
The move to the ACC changed Jamie. He surrendered what worked for what he hoped would work.
it didn’t.
Stallings had two problem children in Artis and Young.
He bet his best chance of winning was placating them to keep them.
He bet wrong.
Capel bet on Trey, X and Toney. he bet wrong, yet Capel is still here.
Stallings got 2 seasons, Capel is getting at least 4.
That’s neither here nor there. Barnes could have told him he had a lifetime contract. If Barnes would have been idiotic enough to promised anything, and I have no doubt he’d have been capable, that would have all gone out the window when Lyke was hired.
Which is essentially what happened.
just make no mistake. Stallings “knew” it was a big rebuild and Stallings “thought” he was “guaranteed“ time.
Anyone smart enough to see it as a rebuild would have been smart enough to not hire Kevin Stallings.
Well let’s not get too carried away. Nobody’s really guaranteed anything. But I certainly agree he’d had to have figured he’d have 4-5 years. I think most coaches get that barring something egregious unless you’re taking over a big time program. Leash might be shorter then. And of course a new boss coming in can change anything anywhere.
The difference is Stallings was 55 years old and about to be fired from Vanderbilt. Capel was 43 years old with the cushiest assistant job in the country. Capel had leverage.
Sounds like he expected time. Sounds like he expected a chance.
What happened to Pitt basketball?
It wasn't that long ago that Pitt was an NCAA tournament mainstay. Now, the Panthers are 0-13 in the ACC. Kevin Stallings thinks he can turn things around, but will he even get the chance?
He got half the chance Capel has already been given.
As we are all aware, life is often far from fair.
Can’t compare the two situations KS had a roster that could’ve won when he started JC had nothing .
KS rubbed everyone the wrong way and once his Bud was gone he had no allies . I’d bet JC is well liked and respected by his bosses .
I‘d also bet that the level of success we all want from the bb and Fb programs far exceeds that of Pitts big wigs .
Look at Duke and Kentucky who recruit whomever they want , their freshman are far better than X and co. and they don’t always win as much as you’d expect from such talented kids . Can’t rely on freshman for success and Pitts not getting the crème de la crème .
Well I said most coaches would expect to get 4-5 years so not sure why you feel the need to belabor the point. But expecting, or even being told that’s what he could expect, it’s still not guaranteed. And again I guess I need to repeat - throw a new AD in and whatever went on previously is meaningless.Sounds like he expected time. Sounds like he expected a chance.
What happened to Pitt basketball?
It wasn't that long ago that Pitt was an NCAA tournament mainstay. Now, the Panthers are 0-13 in the ACC. Kevin Stallings thinks he can turn things around, but will he even get the chance?www.espn.com
He got half the chance Capel has already been given.
As we are all aware, life is often far from fair.
If Capel goes 0 for the ACC he'll meet the same fate that the last guy who "accomplished" that feat did.
You mean Paul Evans ! Answer.....Underachieves .
Does anyone besides Gary think that Pitt underachieved with their current roster . Pitts issue is talent no inside game and poor shooting . Maybe John Wooden , Bobby Knight or Adolf Rupp win. a couple of more games with Pitts current roster , but they’re not competing for conference or national championships with that roster .
Think Casey Stengel or Sparky Anderson wins considerably more games than Derrick Shelton if they were the Pirates manager!
TALENT WINS GAMES !
Justin was a strong POY candidate. X and Toney were strong candidates for All League Teams.
The ACC had a very down year. There was enough talent in place to be better. Better, get that. Better.
Conference Or National Championship? Who said anything approximating that? Ridiculous.
Does anyone but you believe Pitt did not have the talent to be better?
I welcome those responses.
Pitt was predicted to finish 13th in preseason polls . They finished 12th ! Guess they overachieved .
X‘s play was sporadic and Toney kind of disappeared coming down the stretch . Actually they both kind of disappeared !
They lost Hugley which forced TB into major minutes , ask Vader what he thinks of TB !
As a team they ranked 166th in field goal % and 218th in 3 pt % with that efficiency I’m surprised they didn’t win the national championship !
My point is even the greatest college bb coaches of all time they couldn’t do much better with the roster Pitt had . Once again it’s talent .
Could they have won another game or two sure , but they also beat Syracuse twice , Virginia Tech and Duke all games they could’ve lost .
I never fully jumped on the "we're back!" bandwagon this year, but part of my hesitancy was Capel's history in February at Pitt. The three straight February collapses speak for themselves. But I would say his teams have underperformed their talent level only in the most marginal way. His teams have pretty much landed where preseason expectations had them, towards the bottom of the conference. I don't think most outsiders were all that impressed with our roster.
I’ve always wondered what would’ve happened had Maverick Rowan and Mustapha Heron stayed committed. Maybe they don’t do much for the actual on-court performance, but perhaps their presence helps recruiting?
Pitt throughout it’s history has never finished higher than predicted in preseason polls?
No Howland or Dixon team ever accomplished that?
I would like to see Capel accomplish that, but doubt I ever will.
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No shit!? You did tell me that. They finished 12th instead of 13th. When was the parade?
Now how about Howland or Dixon and their ever truly exceeding preseason predictions?
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0-18 and losing by 30 regularly makes you radioactiveSounds like he expected time. Sounds like he expected a chance.
What happened to Pitt basketball?
It wasn't that long ago that Pitt was an NCAA tournament mainstay. Now, the Panthers are 0-13 in the ACC. Kevin Stallings thinks he can turn things around, but will he even get the chance?
He got half the chance Capel has already been given.
As we are all aware, life is often far from fair.
He needed fired and thankfully a competent ad did the job of putting that dog down
I don't think Barnes sold it as a rebuild. He sold it as an NCAAT-ready team. He may not have even realized what a problem we had at PG as Kithcart was viewed as a competent recruit. Having no PG on that team absolutely killed any chance it had. Stallings needed a PG and a Center and got neither. We may have been able to get to around the bubble without a true 5 but absolutely needed a PG. Stallings is to blame for just being satisfied with Jamie's Kithcart signing and not trying to get someone else.
Adequate talent is an extremely generous (and incorrect, IMO) take. Pitt has a long way to go to have adequate talent.
Does anyone really know how hard he tried to find a pg , you can’t blame him for not finding a competent center . JD tried for yrs and look at the guys he brought in . Houghton & Nix to just name two .
Your question was answered you just don’t like the answer .
Other than losing in post season play how can anyone really complain about the Howland -Dixon era of Pitt bb ?
A lineup of
PG - Femi
SG - Johnson/Horton
SF - Toney
PF - Champagnie
C - someone at least average
Is an NCAAT team if Capel could get the guys to stop punching each other in the face and get Johnson to accept and thrive in a lesser role off the ball. There's enough talent on that team to get an NCAAT bid.
Speaking of parades, I'm sorry, but this skit and fake parade for keeping Covid deaths under 100K is effing hilarious.
Would like to see something similar in Oakland with a banner reading "finished 12th but picked 13th."
Several problems here , first currently there’s no center to named later . Second I doubt X splitting time at SG would work . He’s not a shooter and I doubt he’d accept the role , he was a management problem playing the way he wanted to . Now onto Toney , he’s been a problem wanting to transfer after his second season finally leaving during last season . We all know what he did , but how do we know if this was all that’s he done . You just don’t sleep with one of your buds woman , that’s a low character guy . I believe JC will be back , but who knows .
Last yr they shot the ball badly 166th 2 pt% 218th in 3 pt % 229th in pts scored .....this isn’t a tournament team unless they play Baylor type D which they don’t .
It is absolutely stunning that someone could think to take the ball out of XJ’s hands for a freshmen unproven PG who wasn’t nearly as good as his freshmen season when XJ averaged 6 assists per game with our terrible bigs and put him in catch and shoot situations like Trey was forced to. Then to repeatedly state it like this was some sort of genius idea.
When XJ is all big ten next year and averaging 8 assists per game and extremely efficient because he has Trayce Jackson Davis to dump off to instead of AKC and Terrell Brown will you admit this is on your Mount Rushmore of terrible takes?
Btw, your Mount Rushmore has approximately 9 trillion contenders.
If this team stayed intact should it be expected to be a tournament team last season? The following season?
X, Femi
Nike,Horton
Justin, Jeffress
Toney, Collier
Coulibaly, Hugley
Could that team finish top 8 in last seasons ACC?
No. It could finish 12th. We will see what Femi and Nike have next year when they are actually scouted and have to play the bulk of the minutes. They’re complete wildcards until then. Jeffress and Collier have proven nothing.
The notion that Femi/Nike or the others are better than the people in front of them is silly. Coach saw them in practice every day. Coaches aren’t in the habit of keeping better players on the bench.
I was talking about last years roster with X, Toney, AKC, Hugley and Justin.
if it is your opinion that team should finish 12th, thanks for the reply.
I respect your opinion.
I don’t see how it changes. The only change would be Hugley who wouldn’t have made much of a difference last year, imo. Justin being hurt down the stretch was just as much of a problem as X, Toney or anyone else.
But that team was 8-2 with a sure win against Wake slipping away. We were seemingly closer to the tournament/being a competitor then even if some of that was a mirage.
Johnson has a low BB IQ and no natural PG instincts. If he came back, he couldn't play point here. He sucks at it.
Not only would he be the PG, he’d be better than Femi. Again. It’s why he’s gonna be all big ten next year. He’s a very good player and only people who don’t understand the way basketball is going don’t think so.
For reference, XJ per 40 min assist average is 8.0 apg last year. Femi per 40 is 4.4. It’s not even close.
Outside of Harper, they are losing most of their top 5-6 players. Hard to see them being better the next couple of years than they were this year.
