Ias I said year 4 is to be determined
If you have given up 6 months before the season that’s your stupid prerogative
Brandin Knight
- Thread starter Sean Miller Fan
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If you have given up 6 months before the season that’s your stupid prerogative
Absolutely bizarre to leave out Champagnie, the best player he’s recruited, and Horton, who was an average ACC starter this year, to try to argue that the 2019 class was a “whiff.”
How many P5 schools that aren't undergoing a coaching change have 5 players, including three starters, one a three year starter and team leader, transfer at the end of one season?
It's one thing to have the role players like Drumgoole and T. Brown transfer, that happens everywhere all the time. But to have key starters like an X and Toney transfer? Or the guy who started the whole season at center for you? That's not good.
It’s really not bizarre for him. He’ll cherry pick and/or try to frame anything in any way to fit his narratives.
Don’t even need to leave the conference to think of an example: Miami, who lost Lykes, Timberlake, Cross, and Brooks.
Whining about losing players from a team that’s won 15 ACC games in three yrs that I’m sure you’ve complained endlessly about is kind of ironic .
College bb has changed and for programs like Pitt this isn’t a good thing , but starting over now as opposed to next yr is a good thing .
I'm simply assessing the state of the program entering year 4. There's a big picture here, and it's not a very hopeful one.
The whining is because in year 4, 5 months before the next season starts we don't have a functional roster, we have nothing in the pipeline, and recruiting has stagnated to the point where there is nothing to talk about except making some 2022 guy's top 15 list. Just about any transfers or HS players with any ability to be impactful are spoken for.
News flash--that's a bad scenario.
Starting over is what Capel did in year 1--he went out and got a couple of quality P5 level prospects to flip their commitments. There was a lot of positive momentum, a lot to sell, an energy to the program, fan re-engagement, etc.. If this is what starting over looks like now--a program with no pulse, no buzz, no energy, no intrigue, no interest--the program is in big trouble.
I wonder if Lyke feels as nonchalant about the situation as some of the posters on this board? After all, she's the one who hired this guy to rebuild a program and win basketball games. This reflects poorly on her.
I think everyone whose involved or who has interest in the program has to be concerned . I for one have no idea what’s in the pipeline , but I do know that college bb has changed . For schools like Pitt retaining talent as well as recruiting talent will become an issue until they’re a winning program . They won’t become a winning program until they can recruit better players and they won’t recruit better players until they win or relax their principles . It’s going to be a rocky ride and thinking that a coaching change or staff changes will have a big impact without a change in attitude at the top is silly . Everyone needs to be on board to win !
I forgot Horton. He is a legit ACC bench player. However, even with Champagnie, the class is still a whiff. That first full class is usually very good as there is excitement and newness around the program. All he got was an ACC reserve shooting guard and 2 really good years from a guy who ended up playing on a team that went 12-24 in the ACC. A whiff.
If Capel ultimately isnt the answer here, it will be due this bad first full class.
They each started games for Miami last season when healthy, and played 25 mpg when they were healthy. If the roles were reversed, we’d absolutely describe Pitt as losing starters.
They played 23 games combined. The situation isn't like ours. Had they all played a full season and enjoyed a run to the NCAA Tournament, they may have thought differently about transferring. Maybe they still transfer, I don't know but these guys hardly played
Just like Stallings could have had a winning season in Year 3... Sure. No critical thinking possible.
If Capel fails in year 4 we can certainly have that discussion
Capel will be the coach next year unlike stallings in year 3
we know you expect almost nothing positive
I’ll wait to see it
As noted above - if we swoon again in February I want a coaching change .
If every year stands it’s own. Capel should have been fired at the end of last season.
Outside of what he is owed, what has he done in 3 stand alone seasons to deserve a 4th stand alone season
I gotta be honest when I say that I don't understand your take on Capel knowing how much grief you gave me for not supporting Stallings enough. (I believe your assertion was that I was "subliminally" trying to turn the board against Stallings in the middle of a season when Stallings was going 0-18 in the ACC.)
Why the change?
You are advocating a hypothetical coaching change, which is actually a more extreme position than I hold. Capel is going to get Year 5 no matter what. I'll even go on record that he would come back if he finished 0-20.
You wouldn't even consider firing him next spring if there were as much improvement as you claim there is.
The subliminal if I remember correctly was referencing/raising Dixon comparisons or references When discussing Stallings performance. It was more about not letting Dixon go than supporting or not supporting Stallings.
I confess I am doing much the same thing here. I am trying to turn the board against Capel. I can’t let how Stallings was treated go. And.....They should be against Capel. We are looking at his second rebuild.
I think it is very unfair that Capel is being given more time than Stallings. I am offended that he gets the support on the board despite clear failure. Stallings received patience from very few.
I don’t know if you read my earlier post where I compared Capel to a builder hired to build a new home. He built something that either was defective or he deemed it defective. He is now asking to start again, basically from scratch. Would you give your builder a second chance?
@levance2 is one of the few posters I feel has been consistent and fair with his take concerning both coaches.
in my mind, Capel at this point, has produced no more reasons for optimism than Stallings. Sure, he brought in better players, but to what result? For the entirety of his three years he has proved unable to coach, mold, control and maintain his players. Why should anyone expect the future to be any different?
Much like your frame of reference when it came to Stallings “seemed” colored by Dixon, I freely admit my frame of reference when it comes to Capel is surely shaped by what happened with Stallings.
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I let Dixon go the moment he left, but was immediately concerned that the man hired to replace him was not even Dixon's equal, or at least not the coach we needed to even continue Pitt success in the last five years of Dixon.
I am also quite concerned with what we have seen thus far from Capel, especially with the a third straight nosedive in February.
But don't forget that Stallings started with 4 starters from a team who made the NCAA tournament. Two of those players were NBA players. Capel started at 0-18. Not close to the same.
I am worried that Capel's forth season could look a little too much like the 0-18 season if some things don't start happening soon. I should also add that I don't think we will go 0-20 in the ACC under almost any circumstance. That's an extreme and historical kind of bad. But if Justin doesn't return and we don't recruit some kind (any kind of) post player, we could easily be headed to something like 4 or 5 ACC wins out of 20 next year. There's no doubting how much of a problem that would be.
Your agenda has been crystal clear. What exactly do you think that’s going to accomplish? Even if we all turn on a stupid message board by the end of the weekend - it will have no impact. The people on this board that couldn’t stand Stallings had no impact either.
And you need to get over this fair thing. Capel is Heather’s hire so he’s gonna get a longer leash. And Capel inherited a bigger mess than Stallings did.
But to be clear, I’m not defending or making excuses for Capel. The overall results and picture aren’t pretty. And it ultimately rests on his shoulders.
You asked me for an explanation. I believe in answering serious questions when they are asked.
I provided you my best attempt at the answer to your question.
I am certainly not interested re-litigating the subliminal discussion or a discussion of why Stallings failed.
Capel has his own issues. I am more vocal against him because of what went down with Stallings.
Stallings major problem was his inability to recruit a point guard his first season; thus everyone was basically playing out of position.
Why can't you let go of Stallings, knowing your critique of me (which you JUST stated) was not letting go of Dixon? Doesn't make sense.
Dixon was a very successful coach who had been here a long time. You had great affinity for him. Who would not?
He was the coach in place immediately before Stallings. it would not be unexpected for anyone to view Stallings thru the prism of Dixon.
That is my attempt to explain you. ( truly trying to be politie, helpful and responsive here)
Now, my attempt to explain me:
Throughout the years and many, many posts I have posted about fairness, or what I see as right.
it might have been about any number of things. That can come of as sanctimonious. I know that and I understand that.
But...that is who I am.
I saw Stallings done dirty from day one. I detailed that at the time. No need to relive it. it did/does offend my sense of fairness and right .
Stallings was the coach immediately in place before Capel. I do view Capel thru the prism of Stallings. Through the prism of fairness.
Is that hard to understand?
What none of us know a lot about was the tension that existed between KS and his new AD . From what I recall he was not well liked by university officials making a change much easier .
Jeff Capel walked into a shit hole and he’s having a hard time climbing out . I’m not convinced that any coach Pitt can hire will do much better .
Pitt is a very tough sell , they’re losing and not willing to do what it takes to get game changing players .
If Gary wants JC out he needs to write a very large check and then an even larger check to get anyone to take what looks like a dead end coaching job .
Pitt wants to be know for academic achievements not for bb or Fb wins , there’s no reason it can’t be both , but I don’t think those who can make a difference care to go down that road .
The fact that you think the situations between Stallings and Capel are even close to being the same to the point that you'd be so anti-Capel is absolutely laughable.
True. He decided to give Artis what he wanted, but definitely should have recruited backup insurance.
Also laughable is that because he is so easily influenced by what he follows on line in turn he thinks he’ll be able to influence people here.
Someone asked me a serious question. I responded to that person.
I attempted to give that person a polite, honest and responsive reply.
It seems others want to weigh in? So be it.
Though, as is often the case, their responses are not on the topic, but irrelevant personal attacks.
I guess I appreciate the explanation (or attempt thereof). But your criticism of Capel, while fair on it's own merits (I believe the majority of posters have similar thoughts -- I know I do), can be hard to swallow knowing you supported Stallings throughout his historically horrendous season.
I have to give you credit for an honest accounting of your intentions. Your devotion to Stallings, while impressive in its relentlessness, is incomprehensible to me.
Not to belabor the point, but..
My ”support” of Stallings had nothing to do with his performance, It had everything to do with the way he was treated and the effect that treatment had both on his personal life and his work product.
it is apples and oranges. do you see the distinction?
I/We have gone over this ground many times. This has turned into something other than me answering your question.
Sorry I responded to your questions. My mistake.
What impact? Getting millions of dollars to not work because he was bad at his job?
Let me make this as simple as possible.
if the initial press conference was the usual press conference, If Stallings wife had joined him in Pittsburgh, if people had taken a wait and see attitude and Stallings produced what he did...
I would have been the first to saw Pitt made a mistake in hiring a burned out, retread.
Because what happened, did happen, we will never know if he was a burned out retread or alienated, angry and disgruntled/disinterested.
