Chryst and Hornibrook

[Jeffburgh]

Duzz first few classes are very PC like though.

No, as Pittmeister keeps illustrating.
It isn't a HUGE difference, but there is more depth of quality. Particularly on defense.
NOW, the question is have they hit on enough of them and is the coaching good enough.
We just are too early to know.
Duzz recruited players are just now a few true juniors, a few true sophomores, some redshirt sophomores and a boatload of redshirt freshman and 40-45% of the kids he has recruited are going to redshirt their first year this year.

 

[pittdoc57]

It's not a valid comparison to use P5 offers from 5 years ago and today as a way to evaluate talent. Each year, kids are getting more and more and more "offers". Many of them are not even committable these days, whereas at some point in the past all of them were committable. Nowadays an offer isn't always an "offer", and even still they are giving them out hand over fist, it seems. Even the truly elite teams are doing it.

Everybody wants to come up with a reason to feel good about the current state of recruiting, by somehow proving that PN's recruiting is better than PC's recruiting was. It's fools gold; the only thing that matters is results. And if you can convince yourself that PN's recruiting is somehow better, and yet in a few years the results are still lagging, then you are just going to feel worse. Best just to deal with reality, and accept the fact that recruiting classes can't be in the 50's. There are no excuses or analyses that can make that any better.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Point stands, the "most talented players so far in the Narduzzi era were Chryst players."

No $hit, cause ...

Narduzzi, like any other mortal human being did not transport into the future to recruit the players on the roster when he took over.

95% of the players on the roster his first season were PC/Wanny/Fraud players.

70% of the players on his roster his second (last season) were PC/Wanny/Fraud players - the 30% he recruited were, Bueller, Bueller, Bueller, freshman except the 8 or so he got to close out the class he inherted when he took the job ...

Roughly 40% of the roster now are PC kids - all of the seniors and most of the juniors, save a few transfers.

AND, the team is struggling because of THOSE classes.

Exactly! This isn't basketball where 1 or 2 classes turns things around immediately.

 

[DiehardPanther]

It's not a valid comparison to use P5 offers from 5 years ago and today as a way to evaluate talent. Each year, kids are getting more and more and more "offers". Many of them are not even committable these days, whereas at some point in the past all of them were committable.

Everybody wants to come up with a reason to feel good about the current state of recruiting, by somehow proving that PN's recruiting is better than PC's recruiting was. It's fools gold; the only thing that matters is results. And if you can convince yourself that PN's recruiting is somehow better, and yet in a few years the results are still lagging, then you are just going to feel worse. Best just to deal with reality, and accept the fact that recruiting classes can't be in the 50's. There are no excuses that can make that any better.

The reality is Pitt is a mediocre program, with a mediocre fanbase, and a mediocre administration. When the coach does perform above mediocre, then the idiotic fans and administration nudge him out (Dixon).

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

The reality is Pitt is a mediocre program, with a mediocre fanbase, and a mediocre administration. When the coach does perform above mediocre, then the idiotic fans and administration nudge him out (Dixon).

Let me rephrase slightly:

Pitt is a good program with a poor administration and a small hard core fan base that is located in the most successful pro-football city in the history of the NFL.

For the 1000th time......teams located in pro cities can't be compared to the LSU's, MSU's etc. Rather, Miami, UCLA, etc. look at them instead. IT IS APPLES TO ORANGES and national writers have long admitted this. Only local idiots don't acknowledge this. The base 35K fans will always be there, but to get the band wagon yinzer you have to win. Sorry this is the reality of being in the same city with the Steelers, who win and win often.

The program is good. Look at the players in the NFL AT A HIGH LEVEL.. Revis, McCoy, Fitz, are potential HOF. Aside from the stretch 1990-1996, the program has been competitive. Good, not great and not mediocre.

If you want to point fingers it is the admin. From administrators to coaches we have been saddled with the biggest collection of misfits, it is unfathomable. When the time came to make big decision, the wrong choice was always made. From going to the Big East without Penn State to the poor facilities management that led to the decline of Pitt stadium and the (cheaper) choice to move to Heinz rather than having a better plan for the upper campus. Decisions that are still crippling us today. I have posted before, we should be experts at hiring coaches as compared to Penn State, who did it only once. Yet they appear to have hit a home run with Franklin.

 

[gary2]

That's was the point, dip$hit.

The vacuum that exists on the roster is the upper classes.

There are so few viable redshirt seniors, seniors and redshirt juniors that we are seeing too many of Narduzzi's sophomores and redshirt freshman playing more time than they are ready to play.

Basic math - the current third year coach only has two of HIS classes on the roster (his third is a mix of his and the former coach's, after a 6 week run to close the class out)- sophomores, redshirt freshman and freshman.

Why can't people understand this? It applies to basketball as well.

 

[gary2]

I long for the day when we can have only redshirt seniors, juniors and sophomores in the 2 deep.

Absolutely - We need to build a program (pipeline)

 

[pittmeister]

If you star gazers prefer, I speak to you in your language:

DW had 28 four star players on his roster after 6 years of recruiting.

PN has 23 four star players after two and half years of recruiting PN landed 20 of them. A few of the players he's already landed in the 2018 class will probably get a bump as well...

Players in red did not finish their eligibility with Pitt...

Now try and spin that...

 

[Jeffburgh]

Why can't people understand this? It applies to basketball as well.

IDK ...

 

[TD_istheman]

Why can't Pitt and some lemmings understand , what we have been doing the past 30 years, ISN'T WORKING ????

 

[Panther_in_Kentucky]

I think that is such and under realized thing, chryst inherited one of the biggest messes ever at pitt. In only one year, Todd Graham almost completely destroyed pitt football. An entire recruiting class that was almost useless going forward.

Correction: Mark Nordenberg and Steve Pederson single handedly destroyed Pitt Football. Firing Wannstadt was stupid. Especially firing Wannstadt to go cheaper.

It's pretty evident that Pitt's failure with football is 100% Pitt.

 

[TD_istheman]

Correction: Mark Nordenberg and Steve Pederson single handedly destroyed Pitt Football. Firing Wannstadt was stupid. Especially firing Wannstadt to go cheaper.

It's pretty evident that Pitt's failure with football is 100% Pitt.

Truth!

 

[pittmeister]

No, as Pittmeister keeps illustrating.
It isn't a HUGE difference, but there is more depth of quality. Particularly on defense.
NOW, the question is have they hit on enough of them and is the coaching good enough.
We just are too early to know.
Duzz recruited players are just now a few true juniors, a few true sophomores, some redshirt sophomores and a boatload of redshirt freshman and 40-45% of the kids he has recruited are going to redshirt their first year this year.

BINGO! Nail meet Head...

 

[gary2]

If you star gazers prefer, I speak to you in your language:

DW had 28 four star players on his roster after 6 years of recruiting.

PN has 23 four star players after two and half years of recruiting PN landed 20 of them. A few of the players he's already landed in the 2018 class will probably get a bump as well...

Players in red did not finish their eligibility with Pitt...

Now try and spin that...

I agree with the point you are making. But:

Looking at these lists makes me question the star system - Many of Wanny's star players failed to pan out.

And - How is it that McKee, Pine and Pugh are playing behind Zeise, Idowu, J.Williams, R.Dorsey, etc?

There is a lot more to recruiting than rankings and even offers.

I don't know if offers have grown over the years as another poster suggested. I do know that all offers are not necessarily committable.

 

[pittmeister]

I agree with the point you are making. But:

Looking at these lists makes me question the star system - Many of Wanny's star players failed to pan out.

And - How is it that McKee, Pine and Pugh are playing behind Zeise, Idowu, J.Williams, R.Dorsey, etc?

There is a lot more to recruiting than rankings and even offers.

I don't know if offers have grown over the years as another poster suggested. I do know that all offers are not necessarily committable.

I agree with your point about the star system. I've always questioned it...So I decided to research to see how the real experts (College coaches) feel about certain players by offering a scholarship. But no matter what evidence you present, the naysayers will not admit that we are recruiting just as well as we did during the DW era.

 

[joeydavid]

The other point that people seem to be forgetting - Narduzzi's top 3 rated recruits haven't/won't play. Hamlin, Hill and Ford were expected to be the fix in the problems in the defensive backfield.

Some bad luck between those 3 so far.

I agree with your point about the star system. I've always questioned it...So I decided to research to see how the real experts (College coaches) feel about certain players by offering a scholarship. But no matter what evidence you present, the naysayers will not admit that we are recruiting just as well as we did during the DW era.

 

[Pittx9]

Correction: Mark Nordenberg and Steve Pederson single handedly destroyed Pitt Football. Firing Wannstadt was stupid. Especially firing Wannstadt to go cheaper.

It's pretty evident that Pitt's failure with football is 100% Pitt.

Very true. Plus they were the ones who hired Graham, after the disaster that was mike Haywood. My point was that the recruiting class brought in by Graham set us back years. Add into that the administration hampering us like you mentioned and it was a tough job for chryst.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Wisconsin rolled 3 bad teams. A nice schedule to break a new QB in with, and one that basically guarantees them 10 wins with their conference.

But we have Einsteins who think it's good that Pitt is playing a ridiculous OOC schedule, because they deserve to see Pitt play good teams. Well, you got that the last two weeks. Hope you're all happy. It did absolutely nothing for the team, fanbase, recruits in attendance, or coaching staff.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Wisconsin rolled 3 bad teams. A nice schedule to break a new QB in with, and one that basically guarantees them 10 wins with their conference.

But we have Einsteins who think it's good that Pitt is playing a ridiculous OOC schedule, because they deserve to see Pitt play good teams. Well, you got that the last two weeks. Hope you're all happy. It did absolutely nothing for the team, fanbase, recruits in attendance, or coaching staff.

These are the same fans who were not happy with Dixon, and constantly complained of not having big name non-conference opponents.

 

[3 Chins and a Baby]

These are the same fans who were not happy with Dixon, and constantly complained of not having big name non-conference opponents.

Move along Mikey

 

[daminals76]

A 4 or 5 star recruit takes 5 visits. On 4 of the visits he is greeted by loyal fans showering him with gifts and a Gameday experience of excitement and a packed stadium. Then he goes here.

A good salesman can make up for this... our product is absolutely inferior to most p5 programs...that is why better salesmen are the key.

 

[DiehardPanther]

A good salesman can make up for this... our product is absolutely inferior to most p5 programs...that is why better salesmen are the key.

We absolutely need the best salesman possible, but there is only so much you can do when you are trying to sell a 2005 Honda Accord.

 

[daminals76]

We absolutely need the best salesman possible, but there is only so much you can do when you are trying to sell a 2005 Honda Accord.

Showing a kid some results may help... maybe after year 5 or 6 we can get some results? Probably not.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Showing a kid some results may help... maybe after year 5 or 6 we can get some results? Probably not.

It took Frank Beamer seven years to get results. That seemed to have paid off very well for VT. Then you have Pitt who was in a good spot with Harris, Wanny, and Dixon but that was not good enough so they ushered them out.

 

[daminals76]

It took Frank Beamer seven years to get results. That seemed to have paid off very well for VT. Then you have Pitt who was in a good spot with Harris, Wanny, and Dixon but that was not good enough so they ushered them out.

Two different coaches... Pretty sure Beamer wasn't bringing in the 50th ranked recruiting classes like Narduzzi is...

i dont see this defense ever wotking in the ACC, and we just hired a garbage OC so that side of the ball isn't there to bail us out anymore.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Two different coaches... Pretty sure Beamer wasn't bringing in the 50th ranked recruiting classes like Narduzzi is...

i dont see this defense ever wotking in the ACC, and we just hired a garbage OC so that side of the ball isn't there to bail us out anymore.

Beamer was 24-39-2 after 6 years.

 

[TD_6082]

We absolutely need the best salesman possible, but there is only so much you can do when you are trying to sell a 2005 Honda Accord.

You pay them to take it.

 

[TD_istheman]

Beamer was 24-39-2 after 6 years.

To be fair , that's my neck of the woods. They really made improvements, upgraded the stadium, put lots of money into the program. PITT NOT SO MUCH

 

[daminals76]

Beamer was 24-39-2 after 6 years.

Okay?? So you think that since Beamer had success after year 7 so will Narduzzi?? I don't get it??

 

[daminals76]

To be fair , that's my neck of the woods. They really made improvements, upgraded the stadium, put lots of money into the program. PITT NOT SO MUCH

And VT has fans who donate to the program... we don't

 

[daminals76]

We wont ever win without a bigger financial commitment from that admin, AND THE FANS!

Period, end of story.

 

[DiehardPanther]

To be fair , that's my neck of the woods. They really made improvements, upgraded the stadium, put lots of money into the program. PITT NOT SO MUCH

VT had a supportive fanbase and administration during a stretch that he went 24-39-2. Jeez - there is absolutely no scenario in which that would happen here. Pitt became a national joke with how Dixon was let go. Pitt fans keep walking into the same trap over and over again. Amazing.

 

[TD_istheman]

And VT has fans who donate to the program... we don't

True, but VT did what they said, they didn't kick their fans and alumni in the teeth repetitious

 

[daminals76]

If you star gazers prefer, I speak to you in your language:

DW had 28 four star players on his roster after 6 years of recruiting.

PN has 23 four star players after two and half years of recruiting PN landed 20 of them. A few of the players he's already landed in the 2018 class will probably get a bump as well...

Players in red did not finish their eligibility with Pitt...

Now try and spin that...

This is actually very encouraging... thank you for posting this.

 

[franklinman]

If you star gazers prefer, I speak to you in your language:

DW had 28 four star players on his roster after 6 years of recruiting.

PN has 23 four star players after two and half years of recruiting PN landed 20 of them. A few of the players he's already landed in the 2018 class will probably get a bump as well...

Players in red did not finish their eligibility with Pitt...

Now try and spin that...

I believe you left a few names off the DW list, John Malecki,Dickerson,Byham.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

It's not a valid comparison to use P5 offers from 5 years ago and today as a way to evaluate talent. Each year, kids are getting more and more and more "offers". Many of them are not even committable these days, whereas at some point in the past all of them were committable. Nowadays an offer isn't always an "offer", and even still they are giving them out hand over fist, it seems. Even the truly elite teams are doing it.

Everybody wants to come up with a reason to feel good about the current state of recruiting, by somehow proving that PN's recruiting is better than PC's recruiting was. It's fools gold; the only thing that matters is results. And if you can convince yourself that PN's recruiting is somehow better, and yet in a few years the results are still lagging, then you are just going to feel worse. Best just to deal with reality, and accept the fact that recruiting classes can't be in the 50's. There are no excuses or analyses that can make that any better.

What class of Narduzzi's was in the 50s?

What you are seeing right now is Chryst's #44 ranked class from 2014 and the 65th ranked transition class of 2015.

 

[pittmeister]

I believe you left a few names off the DW list, John Malecki,Dickerson,Byham.

No, they were not on the 2010 roster. They left the year before. In the future, pay attention and read carefully. I know it's tough task for nitters that hang around Pitt message boards...

 

[Delpanther]

Re watch the duke game from 2014 and get back to me

Great example of mumbles' coaching ability...the guy was useless!

 

[franklinman]

No, they were not on the 2010 roster. They left the year before. In the future, pay attention and read carefully. I know it's tough task for nitters that hang around Pitt message boards...

Nitter ? sorry big guy, but my grandson played football for 4 years at PITT and we are NO fan of PSU.. Franklin, Pa. Love the way you left out some of DWs 1st class and kept others.

 

[DiehardPanther]

No, they were not on the 2010 roster. They left the year before. In the future, pay attention and read carefully. I know it's tough task for nitters that hang around Pitt message boards...

Yea - you are definitely barking up the wrong tree on this. He is Nate Byham's grandfather.