Clemson potentially on the move?

[forbesfield]

A super conference won’t be made of two existing conferences. It will be a selection of everyone. 48 teams. 8 divisions with six teams each split into two conferences a la the NFL. It will be based on what brings the most money.

Perhaps, but the bulk by far will come from the Big Ten and the SEC, and in the interim, those teams will have the most money to build up their programs. When the time comes for the creme de la creme to break off, some schools will be helplessly behind in infrastructure/facilities/program size to the point where they aren't going to be considered.

It's all very depressing.

 

[ThePanthers]

Perhaps, but the bulk by far will come from the Big Ten and the SEC, and in the interim, those teams will have the most money to build up their programs. When the time comes for the creme de la creme to break off, some schools will be helplessly behind in infrastructure/facilities/program size to the point where they aren't going to be considered.

It's all very depressing.

Yep. I mean money drives a ton of this, but also the FAMO.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

A super conference won’t be made of two existing conferences. It will be a selection of everyone. 48 teams. 8 divisions with six teams each split into two conferences a la the NFL. It will be based on what brings the most money.

Two schools of thought on this.

One that, in your model, many of the top programs (and their rabid fans) wouldn’t be able to psychologically handle the stress of competing for championships with as many 4 losses a season. So they’ll want to keep around a fair number of butt-in-air-for-mounting patsies like Rutgers. Therefore the 2-super-conferences model (albeit greatly expanded like it has been the last couple years) will continue; Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Maryland, et al will be ‘saved’

Two, that maximizing revenue is ALL that matters and to hell with the ego of the boosters whether the champs are 8-4; contracting down to the 32 mega programs or whatever will do that. And I see money trumping ALL so that’s how it will go.

 

[Las Panteras]

And how would you feel about Pitt going 4-8 in a respected conference? But we'd have all that money.

Fair question.

1) if we are going to be irrelevant (and we would be in a glorified Big East) i would rather get paid

2) im not sold we would be a 4-8 program. With an AD like HL and additional capital, i believe the program could compete.

 

[MorningCoffee13]

Two schools of thought on this.

One that, in your model, many of the top programs (and their rabid fans) wouldn’t be able to psychologically handle the stress of competing for championships with as many 4 losses a season. So they’ll want to keep around a fair number of butt-in-air-for-mounting patsies like Rutgers. Therefore the 2-super-conferences model (albeit greatly expanded like it has been the last couple years) will continue; Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Maryland, et al will be ‘saved’

Two, that maximizing revenue is ALL that matters and to hell with the ego of the boosters whether the champs are 8-4; contracting down to the 32 mega programs or whatever will do that. And I see money trumping ALL so that’s how it will go.

A Rutgers would be in simply for New York. There would be lots of butt @$$ teams in the league for television market and ease of transportation to it.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Fair question.

1) if we are going to be irrelevant (and we would be in a glorified Big East) i would rather get paid

2) im not sold we would be a 4-8 program. With an AD like HL and additional capital, i believe the program could compete.

The Big10 is far from a gauntlet. We'd be no worse there than in the ACC. Will probably never win the conference like we did in the ACC, but with a Big10 style OOC schedule, no reason can't continue at the 8-4 level there.

 

[cashisking884]

The Big10 is far from a gauntlet. We'd be no worse there than in the ACC. Will probably never win the conference like we did in the ACC, but with a Big10 style OOC schedule, no reason can't continue at the 8-4 level there.

There would be more automatic losses on the schedule with the new Big Ten additions.

The thing about the Big Ten is, it really only has one elite power capable of beating Bama or UGA without generational type QB play. But it does have 2 other teams with very good ceilings. Playoff appearance type ceilings. And those programs don’t seem to go through as many down years as the ACC’s very good programs do.

So while Miami isn’t a team you put in the L column every year to start the year, even though they should be, Michigan and Penn State are, to go along with NC worthy OSU.

Now you’ve added 4 teams with higher recruiting ceilings than Pitt starting next year. Some with wayyyyyy higher ceilings.

 

[forbesfield]

Big Ten will definitely have better teams now that USC, UCLA, UW, and Oregon are coming aboard. Even Maryland can show up some years. If Wisconsin can get turned around, there's enough good teams in the league that nobody will have an easy schedule.

 

[TD_6082]

Its a very strange phenomenon, yes, but its true. Fans have this weird obsession with how much money their football team makes. They'd rather their team lose more games in a better league than win more games in a lesser league. For example, Clemson and FSU can challenge for the new 12 team CFP forever in the ACC but their fans would much rather them go 8-4 in the SEC.

No. That's crazy. Clemson & FSU think they can win and be successful in the SEC.

However, the multi-millionaire boosters that provide the bulk of support for these programs to compete can't fund NIL, coaching staff salaries, recruiting budget, support staff, etc, and still fork over money for operational costs of the entire athletic department. They desperately need the television revenue, otherwise they are just going to get caught in a money pit where it's impossible to keep up with other football schools long term.

 

[csh2088]

It has become a trend in the media where every couple of weeks Clemson or Florida State is close to leaving. They can leave whenever they want but they will have to make a huge payout and forfeit all profits from television for they next 13 years. The ACC isn't going to ;et them off the hook and they would lose so much money they would never be able to afford football. All ACC schools are stuck with one another so they may as well get use to it.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

A Rutgers would be in simply for New York. There would be lots of butt @$$ teams in the league for television market and ease of transportation to it.

Some others perhaps, not so much by geography but big matchups, etc.

But I think the Big 10 regrets adding Rutgers…nobody at all cares about Rutgers; it is a leech. It has no rival, it provides no big games. Nobody likes Rutgers; yet, almost as bad, nobody cares enough to HATE Rutgers either. (Hell, PITT has fanbases of not one but TWO different programs that passionately hate Us). Whether love or hate, both equal the same thing in sports: Ratings/revenue. As far as that goes, RU is more like RU Kidding.

I don’t think the mega conference organizers are going to be fooled (again) by the Rutgers Myth.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Some others perhaps, not so much by geography but big matchups, etc.

But I think the Big 10 regrets adding Rutgers…nobody at all cares about Rutgers; it is a leech. It has no rival, it provides no big games. Nobody likes Rutgers; yet, almost as bad, nobody cares enough to HATE Rutgers either. (Hell, PITT has fanbases of not one but TWO different programs that passionately hate Us). Whether love or hate, both equal the same thing in sports: Ratings/revenue. As far as that goes, RU is more like RU Kidding.

I don’t think the mega conference organizers are going to be fooled (again) by the Rutgers Myth.

Now you've gone and done it. Any minute now both Rutgers fans are going to be over here telling us all about how they are the sleeping giant of world sports, and they are waking up.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

A Rutgers would be in simply for New York. There would be lots of butt @$$ teams in the league for television market and ease of transportation to it.

Rutgers has 37 fans in NYC so no. Now if you want to say they'd be in because they deliver Central New Jersey, which is very populated and has pockets of fans in North and South Jersey, then yes, ok.

 

[Conemaugh]

Its a very strange phenomenon, yes, but its true. Fans have this weird obsession with how much money their football team makes. They'd rather their team lose more games in a better league than win more games in a lesser league. For example, Clemson and FSU can challenge for the new 12 team CFP forever in the ACC but their fans would much rather them go 8-4 in the SEC.

Bingo. Clemson and FSU can pretty much get into a 12 team playoff as the ACC champion or runner up damn near every year right now if they get their shit together. If the ACC distributes that revenue unevenly such that the teams who make it keep it, WTF better place could they possibly find themselves in? Clemson and FSU are not finishing in the top three or for every year in the SEC. Not a chance.

 

[Conemaugh]

I think most of the drive for more money by schools and the hope for by fans is because of the fear of getting left behind when players are inevitably called employees and they get a piece of the revenue. I also think many right or wrong believe that their rival in another conference will be able to outspend them to wins.

I think the drive for more money by schools is because the people leading the schools are in fact driven by money.........and how that can help rankings and their own pocketbooks. Research dollars, endowments, football TV contracts, whatever. These are not your grandparent's universities.

People say corporations are vicious capitalists who do not care about anything other than money. How many years has the football coach, AD, or chancellor been at their respective university vs. the executive leadership at the average corporation? Not very long.

 

[cbpitt2]

The Big10 is far from a gauntlet. We'd be no worse there than in the ACC. Will probably never win the conference like we did in the ACC, but with a Big10 style OOC schedule, no reason can't continue at the 8-4 level there.

Pitt’s overall record against the Big 10 since 1972 is 11-21 for a winning percentage of .344. Pitt versus the Big 10 since 1972: Illinois 2-0, Iowa 1-3, Michigan State 0-4, Minnesota 2-0, Northwestern 1-2, Ohio State, 1-6, Penn State 2-6 and Purdue 2-0. Now add in Michigan, USC, Oregon, Washington. Pitt would be Rutgers in the Big 10.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Pitt’s overall record against the Big 10 since 1972 is 11-21 for a winning percentage of .344. Pitt versus the Big 10 since 1972: Illinois 2-0, Iowa 1-3, Michigan State 0-4, Minnesota 2-0, Northwestern 1-2, Ohio State, 1-6, Penn State 2-6 and Purdue 2-0. Now add in Michigan, USC, Oregon, Washington. Pitt would be Rutgers in the Big 10.

so what we did in 1972 would be relevant today?

 

[YourPittDanceTeam]

Article is behind a paywall, but The Post & Courier in South Carolina is reporting that Clemson found a way out of the Grant of Rights. University administrator is on record saying that it will be happening “sooner than later.” Some have speculated it to be as early as next month.

View embedded media

Why in the world would Clemson leave the ACC? They are the best team in the league in most years and will certainly take the ACC's spot in the playoffs which start next year . If they would go to the SEC, they become about the 7th or 8th best team and have no real chance of making the playoffs.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Why in the world would Clemson leave the ACC? They are the best team in the league in most years and will certainly take the ACC's spot in the playoffs which start next year . If they would go to the SEC, they become about the 7th or 8th best team and have no real chance of making the playoffs.

 

[palpitt]

$$$

 

[cbpitt2]

so what we did in 1972 would be relevant today?

Became winners and relevant. You know all those game results weren't just from 1972. What's Pitt record against the Big 10 recently? Against Penn State, Michigan State, Northwestern, etc... Very similar.

From 1940 through mid-way through the 1947 season, Pitt lost 24 consecutive games against Big 10 teams. Pitt was auditioning then to join the Big 10 after the University of Chicago stopped competing, and the Big 10 chose Michigan State.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Bingo. Clemson and FSU can pretty much get into a 12 team playoff as the ACC champion or runner up damn near every year right now if they get their shit together. If the ACC distributes that revenue unevenly such that the teams who make it keep it, WTF better place could they possibly find themselves in? Clemson and FSU are not finishing in the top three or for every year in the SEC. Not a chance.

Clemson and FSU can meet and agree to stay in the ACC forever and one of them will be in the 12 team playoff every year, sometimes both of them. Instead, they are signing up for 8-4 in the SEC. So dont tell me fans dont care about money. Until the NCAA allows legal pay for play and not just NIL pay for play, Clemson and FSU have more than enough to make the CFP and in a one game situation, they can beat the Bamas as they have in the past.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Why in the world would Clemson leave the ACC? They are the best team in the league in most years and will certainly take the ACC's spot in the playoffs which start next year . If they would go to the SEC, they become about the 7th or 8th best team and have no real chance of making the playoffs.

Same reason Texas and Oklahoma left the B12 for the SEC. Same reason USC left the Pac-12.

 

[Pitt79]

If there was even a tiny crack in the grant of rights, the attorneys the ACC used should be disbarred. That being said, I would think the ACC would fight that in court, and Clemson and whoever else would have to prove that loophole they think they found is actually legit.

The ACC should not be nice about this if it's true, they should do anything they can to hurt the university, even if it hurts their athletes, F'em.

 

[Pitt79]

Are you kidding? They will be ecstatic. Winning is secondary to these fans. The most important thing is how much money their programs make. If you asked Rutgers fans if they'd rather go 9-3 in the ACC every year or 3-9 in the B10, they'd happily choose the B10.

I realize that's your kind of thinking, and the way a lot of the rest here think, but personally, I don't see the enjoyment of being a doormat just to say you are at the highest level, to me, and I get it, I know I'm a backwards loser when it comes to current thinking, but I have MORE FUN being a big fish in a small pond and contending for championships, even if it's not against "the best". What fun is it being a Rutgers fan and being 3-9 and cheering for the bank balance to go up, over going to games where your team WINS and you're 9-3 contending for the title?

 

[NKSplitter]

What fun is it being a Rutgers fan and being 3-9 and cheering for the bank balance to go up, over going to games where your team WINS and you're 9-3 contending for the title?

Rutgers is 6-2 right now and and going bowling.

 

[Pitt79]

Rutgers is 6-2 right now and and going bowling.

After 8 straight losing seasons.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

After 8 straight losing seasons.

And having no wins against a team that would be in the top 50 of college football.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

And having no wins against a team that would be in the top 50 of college football.

And nobody cares. They will be like 8-4, having beaten 8 really bad teams. But Pitt schedules like SOS matters in college football. Cant wait for the 2 Wisconsin losses. That'll really give our SOS the bump it needs.

 

[buckage]

Clemson and FSU can meet and agree to stay in the ACC forever and one of them will be in the 12 team playoff every year, sometimes both of them. Instead, they are signing up for 8-4 in the SEC. So dont tell me fans dont care about money. Until the NCAA allows legal pay for play and not just NIL pay for play, Clemson and FSU have more than enough to make the CFP and in a one game situation, they can beat the Bamas as they have in the past.

Do you live in Pittsburgh?

Fans don't care about money, look at Nutting. They crave wins.

 

[joeydavid]

Rutgers is 6-2 right now and and going bowling.

Rutgers will likely end the season at 6-7.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Um, Clemson and FSU aren't staying in the ACC because they would have a better shot at the playoffs. That doesn't matter if the other conference can generate tens of millions more per team every year.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Why did this thread re-emerge one month later? Did some new revelation arise that Clemson found some new loophole?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And nobody cares.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. No one cares about Rutgers football if they beat a bunch of bad teams and go 8-4 or if they lose to a bunch of bad teams and go 4-8.

 

[cbpitt2]

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. No one cares about Rutgers football if they beat a bunch of bad teams and go 8-4 or if they lose to a bunch of bad teams and go 4-8.

Pandemonium in Piscataway!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Do you live in Pittsburgh?

Fans don't care about money, look at Nutting. They crave wins.

That doesn't exactly prove your point. Pirates fans may grumble, but they truly dont care about wins and losses, which is why attendance is about as good as it can be for such a historically bad team.

 

[buckage]

That doesn't exactly prove your point. Pirates fans may grumble, but they truly dont care about wins and losses, which is why attendance is about as good as it can be for such a historically bad team.

Attendance is 5th worst in MLB, what are you talking about?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Attendance is 5th worst in MLB, what are you talking about?

And its way higher than it should be for literally the worst franchise in all of pro sports

 

[buckage]

And its way higher than it should be for literally the worst franchise in all of pro sports

You just can't do it, can you?