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Dixon left on his own/Barnes Pushed him out - who cares??

NCanton Panther

Heisman Candidate
Sep 22, 2001
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I don't understand the significant banter back n forth on this. What's the difference? As in most cases, the truth is somewhere in between. Yeah, Dixon decided to leave and Barnes didn't do anything to change his mind or even helped to push him out the door. I'm fine with it either way. If I'm on one side of the fence I can cite the 11 tourney appearances in 13 years and say this is atrocious/be careful what you wish for. If I'm on the other side of the fence, I can easily cite that those 2 misses happened in the last 5 years (sorry, I'm not sure if we are supposed to be looking at the last 4 years or the last 5 years, guess it depends on which best fits our argument). To me, there's no denying the program has been trending downward so I can rationalize either side of it, keep the status quo or make a change hopefully for the better..

I also don't care if it was a few deep pockets boosters who may not have had the influence under the old regime but do now under the new regime. I'm just some irrelevant and non-influential Pitt fan that hopes for the best from our Pitt teams. I'm glad there are some influential boosters to provide the checks n balances, hold the admin accountable, and/or put pressure on them to strive for higher goals and levels of performance. And I'm also willing to accept some mistakes that may occur should the applied pressures result in a change that doesn't work out. Not much in life is certain but I'm fine with taking the chance to improve something.

What I really don't understand currently is all the statements that Pitt/Barnes has egg on their face and is a joke in the national eye. I don't see where Pitt or Barnes has done anything as of yet that is embarrassing. Any current embarrassment seems to due entirely to Rickie Walsh and his irresponsible journalism. Only thing I question is who were his 'sources' to have him breaking that story. Must have been someone that wanted Pitt to look stupid.

And we now have guys on this board who have been the most vocal opponents of the Miller family citing John Miller's statement to support the claim that Barnes has egg on his face and is embarrassing Pitt nationally. Now that's convenient. Can anyone really be surprised by the elder Miller's comments. And I have to give credit to Sean for quickly ending all of the talk about him coming to Pitt. More than I ever remember Jamie doing on any of the countless prior instances where his name was linked to a vacancy.

Lastly, I could care less what Goodman, Parrish or any other national media type says, who they have on their list of coaching candidates, or who Zeise or any other local media have on their list. How do any of them really know???? I don't care who their contacts are, they are either just speculating or are going by the information that the powers to be want to give out.
 
If coaches believe that Barnes.....or donors.....or fans pushed Dixon out, that is very bad for Pitt. Dixon is viewed as a semi-miracle worker so, obviously, the thought from coaching candidates will be: "if they did Jamie wrong after all that success, why will they be happy if I have a similar record?"
 
If coaches believe that Barnes.....or donors.....or fans pushed Dixon out, that is very bad for Pitt. Dixon is viewed as a semi-miracle worker so, obviously, the thought from coaching candidates will be: "if they did Jamie wrong after all that success, why will they be happy if I have a similar record?"
I'll agree with this to some extent but, unlike the FB side of the house, Pitt BB hasn't been a revolving door of coaches being pushed out the door. Dixon has been here 17 years counting his time under Howland, that is a long time. So is it a significant black mark that we've pushed out a guy that was here 17 years or a plus that we had a stable program with a guy here for a long 17-year period.

Things can always be spun whatever way someone wants. Just like the national media talking heads commenting on Dixon. Many will continuously harp on his tourney failures and OOC scheduling practices, and then they're turn around in an instant and say he is a great coach, Pitt can't do better.

For the time being, I have no choice but to put my trust in Barnes to do a good search and hire a good new coach. And it doesn't have to be a 'big' name or splash hire.
 
If coaches believe that Barnes.....or donors.....or fans pushed Dixon out, that is very bad for Pitt. Dixon is viewed as a semi-miracle worker so, obviously, the thought from coaching candidates will be: "if they did Jamie wrong after all that success, why will they be happy if I have a similar record?"

And to some extent, if other coaches believe that Barnes is irrational enough to be chasing Sean Miller, that says something about the guy. At this point, perception is reality, and that's the conversation surrounding the situation. Hopefully Barnes really does have connections and names and the right outcome is just around the corner. If not, this turns into a Wannstedt situation where we traded "mediocrity" for obscurity.
 
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And it doesn't have to be a 'big' name or splash hire.

Except if Barnes starts the conversation by saying that is what we'll get. I didn't watch the press conference, and don't have exact quotes, but he made a point of saying he was already running down leads and every good AD "has a list." He also said he wants a top recruiter. I think it's going to be really hard to say he got one if he gets some guy out of some low-major conference.

Whether fair or not, you have to judge the guy based on his own personal expectation.
 
If coaches believe that Barnes.....or donors.....or fans pushed Dixon out, that is very bad for Pitt. Dixon is viewed as a semi-miracle worker so, obviously, the thought from coaching candidates will be: "if they did Jamie wrong after all that success, why will they be happy if I have a similar record?"
Yep.

I know a message board isn't completely reflective of a fan base, but let's remember how quickly this board became toxic during that cbi season. It wasn't a well we're just having a bad season that was bound to happen. It was torches and pitchforks pretty fast, which means people were unhappy even with number 1 seeds.

Unless you're coaching at a Kentucky or North Carolina, who wants to deal with that?
 
I think it makes a big difference.

If the AD drives out a very successful coach who took his team to the NCAA Tournament for 11 out of 13 years and gets let go by the AD, why do I want to go there.

I'm expecting our new coach to be able to get Pitt into the NCAA Tournament each year for the next 5 years MINIMUM.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Yep.

I know a message board isn't completely reflective of a fan base, but let's remember how quickly this board became toxic during that cbi season. It wasn't a well we're just having a bad season that was bound to happen. It was torches and pitchforks pretty fast, which means people were unhappy even with number 1 seeds.

Unless you're coaching at a Kentucky or North Carolina, who wants to deal with that?

Yep. People that are saying they only were dissatisfied recently ae being disingenuous. There has been a fairly large portion of the fanbase that has hated Dixon and wanted him out ever since the Villanova loss even.
 
Hey, I coined at keast two of the lines the OP has objected to. I don't think either was wrong, but....

And this is a HUGE but, ...it's over.

Dixon is gone and he isn't coming back. Why and how NO LONGER MATTER. Or, they only matter in how the program is run no-going. We can't destroy ourselves from within.

We just need to unite, move on and pull together. For maybe the 10th time today, we ALL hope Mr. Barnes runs a successful search and signs a worthy candidate. Sooner is good. Better is better.

EVERYBODY has at least semi-valid points they could make about past problems. Forget them and move on.
 
I'll agree with this to some extent but, unlike the FB side of the house, Pitt BB hasn't been a revolving door of coaches being pushed out the door. Dixon has been here 17 years counting his time under Howland, that is a long time. So is it a significant black mark that we've pushed out a guy that was here 17 years or a plus that we had a stable program with a guy here for a long 17-year period.

Things can always be spun whatever way someone wants. Just like the national media talking heads commenting on Dixon. Many will continuously harp on his tourney failures and OOC scheduling practices, and then they're turn around in an instant and say he is a great coach, Pitt can't do better.

For the time being, I have no choice but to put my trust in Barnes to do a good search and hire a good new coach. And it doesn't have to be a 'big' name or splash hire.
You say in your thread title that it doesn't matter or who cares whether he was pushed out or not but then you make a matter of fact statement above ("...that we've pushed out....") that he was pushed out. Which is it? Sounds to me like you're just trying to get the last word in that he was pushed out. Sorry but Jamie had the choice and he made it.
 
It seemed as if Jamie and Pitt had come to a point where a change was needed for both. I think Barnes was expecting this. He wanted to see some changes made by Jamie and it looked as if those changes weren't exactly met with open arms. Thus why Barnes wasn't exactly begging him to stay...

-PSN
 
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You say in your thread title that it doesn't matter or who cares whether he was pushed out or not but then you make a matter of fact statement above ("...that we've pushed out....") that he was pushed out. Which is it? Sounds to me like you're just trying to get the last word in that he was pushed out. Sorry but Jamie had the choice and he made it.
Wasn't trying to get any last word in at all, SMF made a reply countering my post as to whether or not it mattered either way by saying it does matter. His reasoning was that if we did push Dixon out, it could be viewed negatively by coaching candidates. My reply back was simply to state that I thought he had a valid point in that regard.
 
Syracuse,Duke,North Carolina can retain successful head coach.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

The 3 teams you mentioned have won recent National Championships. They also make long runs into the tournament. If Jamie did that, I would say pay him what he wanted. But since he didn't.
 
The 3 teams you mentioned have won recent National Championships. They also make long runs into the tournament. If Jamie did that, I would say pay him what he wanted. But since he didn't.

Dixon was already signed to a long term contract.

You did not have to pay him any more money.

OK Dixon is gone now the AD must bring in someone better than Dixon.

If he is worse, then why was Dixon replaced.

It is on Barnes (criticism or glory) goes with the territory.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Dixon was already signed to a long term contract.

You did not have to pay him any more money.

OK Dixon is gone now the AD must bring in someone better than Dixon.

If he is worse, then why was Dixon replaced.

It is on Barnes (criticism or glory) goes with the territory.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

I guess everyone has more inside info than I did. I just know Dixon took the TCU job, yet Pitt forced him out? (still don't understand this part) Anything that may or may not have happened between them is just speculation from what I can tell. It is really hard to believe anyone.

So question back to you....based on Facts, what would have needed to be done to have Dixon stay.

Remember, he signed a contract too.

Also, to me, if Dixon's replacement wins 2 Games in the NCAA Tournament in 5 years, that would be "better". I hope the hell we can do that.
 
Yep. People that are saying they only were dissatisfied recently ae being disingenuous. There has been a fairly large portion of the fanbase that has hated Dixon and wanted him out ever since the Villanova loss even.

I think dissatisfaction started with Villanova and hit a high point after Butler loss. I think a lot of the remaining fans then judged the team from that point on and it has been unsatisfying compared to pre Butler.
 
Wasn't trying to get any last word in at all, SMF made a reply countering my post as to whether or not it mattered either way by saying it does matter. His reasoning was that if we did push Dixon out, it could be viewed negatively by coaching candidates. My reply back was simply to state that I thought he had a valid point in that regard.
Insiders tell me he was forced out. He left by keeping face. Barnes and him didn't get along from what I hear. He didn't want to work under him. Also, did you notice seans little message about Jamie and how great a job he did? That was a subtle jab I think at the University. Doesn't help perception.
 
My insiders say that Jaime wanted to leave and Barnes wanted him to stay, but wasn't going to beg him to stay.
 
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The folks that loved Jamie. Loved Steve.
I was a Jamie supporter and very much disliked SP, who should have been fired after the whole Wanny/Haywood fiasco.

Very few people know the dynamics of what prompted JD to leave. The rest of us speculate based upon bits and pieces of info we knit together into a narrative that supports our opinion. At this point it really is immaterial. Dixon is gone and Barnes will hire a replacement. He'll be judged on the success of the new guy. Rehashing blame and culpability, based upon partial truths/info is an exercise in futility

None of us has the juice to influence the process so let's just take Barnes at his word and hope he gets this right.

I was/am a big JD fan but things change, he's gone to TCU. I'll give my full support to whoever we have at the helm because I am first and foremost a Pitt fan.
 
I don't understand the significant banter back n forth on this. What's the difference? As in most cases, the truth is somewhere in between. Yeah, Dixon decided to leave and Barnes didn't do anything to change his mind or even helped to push him out the door. I'm fine with it either way. If I'm on one side of the fence I can cite the 11 tourney appearances in 13 years and say this is atrocious/be careful what you wish for. If I'm on the other side of the fence, I can easily cite that those 2 misses happened in the last 5 years (sorry, I'm not sure if we are supposed to be looking at the last 4 years or the last 5 years, guess it depends on which best fits our argument). To me, there's no denying the program has been trending downward so I can rationalize either side of it, keep the status quo or make a change hopefully for the better..

I also don't care if it was a few deep pockets boosters who may not have had the influence under the old regime but do now under the new regime. I'm just some irrelevant and non-influential Pitt fan that hopes for the best from our Pitt teams. I'm glad there are some influential boosters to provide the checks n balances, hold the admin accountable, and/or put pressure on them to strive for higher goals and levels of performance. And I'm also willing to accept some mistakes that may occur should the applied pressures result in a change that doesn't work out. Not much in life is certain but I'm fine with taking the chance to improve something.

What I really don't understand currently is all the statements that Pitt/Barnes has egg on their face and is a joke in the national eye. I don't see where Pitt or Barnes has done anything as of yet that is embarrassing. Any current embarrassment seems to due entirely to Rickie Walsh and his irresponsible journalism. Only thing I question is who were his 'sources' to have him breaking that story. Must have been someone that wanted Pitt to look stupid.

And we now have guys on this board who have been the most vocal opponents of the Miller family citing John Miller's statement to support the claim that Barnes has egg on his face and is embarrassing Pitt nationally. Now that's convenient. Can anyone really be surprised by the elder Miller's comments. And I have to give credit to Sean for quickly ending all of the talk about him coming to Pitt. More than I ever remember Jamie doing on any of the countless prior instances where his name was linked to a vacancy.

Lastly, I could care less what Goodman, Parrish or any other national media type says, who they have on their list of coaching candidates, or who Zeise or any other local media have on their list. How do any of them really know???? I don't care who their contacts are, they are either just speculating or are going by the information that the powers to be want to give out.

I'm very grateful for what Jamie Dixon did for the University of Pittsburgh Basketball program. However, he chose to leave in a way that made things as simple as possible for everyone involved.

At this point, I'm just looking forward to securing a new coach and thinking about our team next year.
 
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Pittsburgh sports fans don't exactly excel at looking forward..
It's always looking back for them, which is why they are so pleasant and open minded.
 
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I'll judge the new coach on the merit of his own achievements.
Comparing him to an old coach achieves nothing.
Same thing with the ad.

Root for the coach we have and the kids in the Pitt jersey.. The rest is unneeded anguish.
 
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Whether forced out or left voluntarily it doesn't really matter now or in the future because he's gone. What's next no one knows ,but I'm not sure things would have turned around quickly with JD here. I expected steady improvement with Pitt eventually being the 4th or 5th best program in the best bb conference in the country which really isn't all bad. Can anyone ever envision Pitt being considered a better bb school than Duke,UNC,Louisville ,then there's Syracuse and Virginia. However what has college athletics really turned into ...its big business. Business is concerned with revenue and Pitts bb revenue exclusive of ACC money is down and I'm sure with Jamie here next year Pitt would continue to struggle to sell as many tickets as they did this season. The Pete is emptying out and its bad for revenue it's bad for the AD it's bad for the head coach. Bringing in a new coach heightens interest in the program if it's a good hire they'll sell more tickets than they would have otherwise ,but winning sells followed by having players that people want to see. From a business standpoint something needed to change and it did . Money rules college sports.
 
Whether forced out or left voluntarily it doesn't really matter now or in the future because he's gone. What's next no one knows ,but I'm not sure things would have turned around quickly with JD here. I expected steady improvement with Pitt eventually being the 4th or 5th best program in the best bb conference in the country which really isn't all bad. Can anyone ever envision Pitt being considered a better bb school than Duke,UNC,Louisville ,then there's Syracuse and Virginia. However what has college athletics really turned into ...its big business. Business is concerned with revenue and Pitts bb revenue exclusive of ACC money is down and I'm sure with Jamie here next year Pitt would continue to struggle to sell as many tickets as they did this season. The Pete is emptying out and its bad for revenue it's bad for the AD it's bad for the head coach. Bringing in a new coach heightens interest in the program if it's a good hire they'll sell more tickets than they would have otherwise ,but winning sells followed by having players that people want to see. From a business standpoint something needed to change and it did . Money rules college sports.
Probably the best possible argument for making the change.
 
Well if Pitt goes 18-14 next year and an NIT bid, that will generate a lot of excitement and encourage the fans to buy more tickets.

Then the following year Pitt goes 14-14 with no NIT.

Works both ways.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Well if Pitt goes 18-14 next year and an NIT bid, that will generate a lot of excitement and encourage the fans to buy more tickets.

Then the following year Pitt goes 14-14 with no NIT.

Works both ways.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Well of course it works both ways, nothing is a certainty. I guess it's all just a matter of how risk averse each individual is. I tend to look more to the potential improvements instead of the fear of failure so I'm not hesitant or reluctant of the change. The prospects for improvement with the status quo didn't look good to me.

And if you want to play the guessing game, we could have gone 18-14 next year if Jamie was still here as well.
 
Well of course it works both ways, nothing is a certainty. I guess it's all just a matter of how risk averse each individual is. I tend to look more to the potential improvements instead of the fear of failure so I'm not hesitant or reluctant of the change. The prospects for improvement with the status quo didn't look good to me.

And if you want to play the guessing game, we could have gone 18-14 next year if Jamie was still here as well.

But the funny thing is that the people who are the ones willing to take that gamble on improvement are the ones that will be the most vocal and angry if the improvements don't happen, even though they air the risk now.
 
And if you want to play the guessing game, we could have gone 18-14 next year if Jamie was still here as well.

Could have, but given Jamie 'a track record, which players were coming back, and incoming recruits it was highly unlikely he would have had his worst year next year.

If a new coach comes in, loses the recruiting class, and there is roster turnover, then I would say 18-14 or worse is quite likely next year.
 
Could have, but given Jamie 'a track record, which players were coming back, and incoming recruits it was highly unlikely he would have had his worst year next year.

If a new coach comes in, loses the recruiting class, and there is roster turnover, then I would say 18-14 or worse is quite likely next year.
Pitts improvement with everything status quo ,assuming everyone stays and the recruits come, depends upon a freshman coming in and running the show. If Kithcart is the real deal there will be improvement ,but if comes in and disappoints it will be a long season regardless of who coaches. A lot to put on a freshman .
 
Could have, but given Jamie 'a track record, which players were coming back, and incoming recruits it was highly unlikely he would have had his worst year next year.

If a new coach comes in, loses the recruiting class, and there is roster turnover, then I would say 18-14 or worse is quite likely next year.
This IS Pitt. We've been conditioned to always expect the worst possible outcome.

To be honest, we very well might crash and burn.

But, there is no sense in looking backwards. Dixon is gone. He's not coming back.

All we can do us look forward. As I keep saying, let's unite and hope Mr. Barnes runs a quiet, professional, successful search, and hires a good coach. The football board was contaminated for years with Walt and Wanny fans arguing their favorite was better than the next guy. We always look backwards at Pitt. Let's look forwards.

Let's move past that. Until he proves differently, the new guy is our Narduzzi, someone for all of us to support.
 
This IS Pitt. We've been conditioned to always expect the worst possible outcome.

To be honest, we very well might crash and burn.

But, there is no sense in looking backwards. Dixon is gone. He's not coming back.

All we can do us look forward. As I keep saying, let's unite and hope Mr. Barnes runs a quiet, professional, successful search, and hires a good coach. The football board was contaminated for years with Walt and Wanny fans arguing their favorite was better than the next guy. We always look backwards at Pitt. Let's look forwards.

Let's move past that. Until he proves differently, the new guy is our Narduzzi, someone for all of us to support.

I'll support the new coach. I want the new coach to take pitt to sweet 16's and beyond. I'll support Barnes in the hire.

However, if the new coach tanks Barnes needs to be gone in 2-3 years. Fair or not. Just like Steve should have been gone after Todd graham bolted.
 
The whole point of this exercise is the coach must go because Pitt needs improve.

I'm fine with that.

I'm expecting Pitt to improve.

If they don't improve or regress, then I'm not fine with that.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Could have, but given Jamie 'a track record, which players were coming back, and incoming recruits it was highly unlikely he would have had his worst year next year.

If a new coach comes in, loses the recruiting class, and there is roster turnover, then I would say 18-14 or worse is quite likely next year.
This puzzles me regarding the statement that we'd be better next year given the players coming back and the incoming recruits. Not so much the incoming recruits because I have to admit I was/am excited to see what Kithcart can do.

But it has really irked me over the course of this year the number of posters that have thrown our current players under the bus as having no heart and no effort and we'll be better next year if a number of them don't come back, you know, addition by subtraction. Yeah, this past team had a lot of warts but I never saw a lot of direct evidence watching games that there was no heart or effort.

Now it very well was not you coming down hard on anyone from this past year's team but it sure wasn't just a small minority of the posters on this board that were. Anyone of them now saying we would be better next year because of who all is coming back sure would sound like a big contradiction to me.
 
I posted this on another thread to illustrate that what happened with Dixon goes on in the real world all the time....

----------------

Pitt is not only an institution of higher learning, it is a BUSINESS.

Compare it to a restaurant...

Business has not been great the last few years. The patrons were not coming to the establishment as in the past (i.e. attendance has been down) they complained about the menu (weak schedule) the atmosphere had grown apathetic and stale (fans losing interest, didn't care for the style of play).

As the manager (Dixon) it was his responsibility to run the restaurant. He had autonomy over the menu (schedule), style of play (atmosphere) and employees (players). He had been the manager at the restaurant for 13 years and did a great job. However his performance was not on the same level as was in the past.

The owner (Barnes) who purchased the establishment a few months earlier recognized the manager could use some help in getting things back on the right track. He saw the potential in the business and decided to make some suggestions on how to get the patrons interested in coming back.

He suggests getting better assistant managers and would pay more to get better ones. He also wanted to get better help. He wanted the manager to get assistants that would hire more talented waiters and cooks to bring a better taste and atmosphere (better players and style) to the establishment , because that's what his patrons WANTED.

Instead of listening to the new owners suggestions, the manager decided he couldn't function under the new ownership and decided to take a job working for some friends.

The owner decided not to stand in his way even though he had a lucrative contract for the next 7 years. In fact he lowered the buyout of his contract in order for him to go where he wanted to go and be happy.

Now the owner must find a new manager that will work with the owner to capture the vision he wants for the restaurant....

No one was forced out. Barnes is the boss who has a responsibility to the university, the donors and the fans to sell the best product they can for the money they spend. Barnes respected Dixon's coaching ability, but things needed to be tweaked. Dixon balked so he walked.
 
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Yes it is a business.

Real life example

JC Penney's was not profitable enough and brought in a new CEO who had a vision to restore profitability and changed the whole dynamics of the organization.

The change resulted in plummeting loses which almost tanked the company.

New CEO was replaced by the Board because of the disastrous results.

Works both ways.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
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