Does Pitt even need to throw the ball to beat Penn State?

[deepelemblues]

Ummm, yes.

If Pitt literally did not pass a single time, why wouldn't Penn State put 9 or 10 in the box? Even Jimmy Franks and his staff could make that adjustment.

 

[88Pitt88]

Baylor threw for 400 yards against OkSu and ran for 300, but averaged only 4 yards per run. They are far from a "power run" offense. They only went to the wildcat that we all saw in the bowl game against UNC as a desperation move after they got down to their 3rd string QB late in the year and lost a couple of games with him. Baylor runs the ball well, they do everything well offensively--but they do it by spreading the field, the O-line uses super wide splits, and most of the run plays are zone read options. I would add that OkSU is a horrific defense, even by B12 standards. Nobody in the B12 defends the run.

LSU runs the ball 655 of the time because they haven't had a capable QB since Jamarcus Russell. Fournette was stuffed by Bama, Arkansas, and Ole Miss in 3 consecutive losses. Not because he isn't a great back, he is--but because you can't run the ball every play against good defenses no matter who's in the backfield. Eventually you have to have a QB who can make plays in the passing game. Miles was essentially fired at the end of the season, the primary criticism has been his totally lackluster offense and failure to develop a QB and balance out the offense. And you want to hold LSU out as the shining example of the virtues of the "power run game"?

Your posts continually reflect a total lack of knowledge and understanding of the game of football. Every time I read one I just shake my head. You're clueless.

Badby, that was a nice rebuttle. I could not have said it better. Les Miles has had so much trouble getting a good QB down there lately. So much so, that he tried to steal Macvittie off of us very late in the last recruiting cycle. Like you said, LSU, short of Bama and Henry, probably had the best power running game, and yet it failed when coupled with poor QB play against solid defenses.
I suggest that steele watch some more college football, or if not, learn how to express what he sees more accurately.

 

[steel_curtain]

Badby, that was a nice rebuttle. I could not have said it better. Les Miles has had so much trouble getting a good QB down there lately. So much so, that he tried to steal Macvittie off of us very late in the last recruiting cycle. Like you said, LSU, short of Bama and Henry, probably had the best power running game, and yet it failed when coupled with poor QB play against solid defenses.
I suggest that steele watch some more college football, or if not, learn how to express what he sees more accurately.

-I see LSU ranked in the preseason top 3 in just about every preseason ranking, and number 1 in a number of rankings. I suggest you watch LSU clown teams this year in the run game.

 

[Old School1]

Anyone who thinks they can answer this question today is more likely not to be around on 9/10 based on the law of averages. The below average have a higher mortality rate than the above average.
This question will be answered on 9/10 by our very competent coaching staff as opposed to the Panterlair armchair coaches most of whom probably never played the game!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Nobody would love a beating like that more than me. I suspect this game may be somewhat high scoring. I am worried that if they run a spread attack we will struggle to defend it well, as that style has always been a problem for us. I believe our linebackers are still the weakness of this defense and a good running qb could give us fits. I am not sure if Mcsorely is any good but until we see their offense, I am at least a little worried that they can score on us.
At this very early time I will say 32-23 Pitt, but 35-10 I like much better!

Narduzzi hasnt come close to stopping a spread yet.......but we are talking about PSU's 2nd game in the new offense with a new QB making his first road start. If PSU puts up a lot of points and wins this game, I will really question Narduzzi's coaching ability. If he can win this game, why is he our HC?

 

[Pantherman43]

Bingo. It's going to be a close game. You mentioned their RS players, one of their best ones was Givens, a Pitt verbal at one time.

The same Kevin Givens that they didn't offer till the last minute whose other offers were Umass, Temple and another MAC school?

It is amazing how he has risen to this monster beast (I've heard his name mentioned with Aaron Donald which I thought was jumping the gun a little) without playing a game while gaining his status going up against the nits first and second team offensive lines.

 

[88Pitt88]

Anyone who thinks they can answer this question today is more likely not to be around on 9/10 based on the law of averages. The below average have a higher mortality rate than the above average.
This question will be answered on 9/10 by our very competent coaching staff as opposed to the Panterlair armchair coaches most of whom probably never played the game!

I guess we are all below average to you. Now I have to go to bed worrying if I will still be alive on Sept. 10th for the big game. Lol ! Get a grip, if you have no input for the thread, just don't say anything. I think alot of us know more about football than you could hope to. Either way, we can all accurately predict what will happen on Sept. 10th if we wait till Sept. 11th. Some of us were having a little fun ahead of time, we really don't need you to tell us how dumb we are for trying to prognosticate a little bit.

 

[Pantherman43]

Narduzzi hasnt come close to stopping a spread yet.......but we are talking about PSU's 2nd game in the new offense with a new QB making his first road start. If PSU puts up a lot of points and wins this game, I will really question Narduzzi's coaching ability. If he can win this game, why is he our HC?

This game will be power football against big play football. The nits could hit a few big plays and they could not. Like you said, it will be their second game and first road start for the new qb.

However if they struggle on offense and Pitt gets the running game cranked up it could be trouble for their defense. They are young and not that deep in areas. A nice hot day with that defense constantly on the field could spell trouble for them.

I think the difference in the game will be the play of the lines, IMHO.

 

[88Pitt88]

-I see LSU ranked in the preseason top 3 in just about every preseason ranking, and number 1 in a number of rankings. I suggest you watch LSU clown teams this year in the run game.

LSU will be very good this year. You do know that they play in the SEC West though. Those teams will not be in awe of Fournette. If they do not get improved QB play they will not wind up a top five team. They will clown the cupcakes, but they will not be putting it to Bama, Ole Miss, Florida, or even Auburn. Without top notch QB play there will be no SEC title or national title.

 

[rockypanther]

Iam seriously really confused why LSU is in this thread.

 

[Old School1]

I guess we are all below average to you. Now I have to go to bed worrying if I will still be alive on Sept. 10th for the big game. Lol ! Get a grip, if you have no input for the thread, just don't say anything. I think alot of us know more about football than you could hope to. Either way, we can all accurately predict what will happen on Sept. 10th if we wait till Sept. 11th. Some of us were having a little fun ahead of time, we really don't need you to tell us how dumb we are for trying to prognosticate a little bit.

Little mind ( one of the unfortunate below average) this is a message board. So there's the opinion of yes we wont have to throw the ball or yes we will or whatever.
But like I said its highly unlikely that you'll make it to the game on 9/10 but enjoy the thread now!

 

[Panther Parrothead]

The same Kevin Givens that they didn't offer till the last minute whose other offers were Umass, Temple and another MAC school?

It is amazing how he has risen to this monster beast (I've heard his name mentioned with Aaron Donald which I thought was jumping the gun a little) without playing a game while gaining his status going up against the nits first and second team offensive lines.

No coincidence that Givens has become a beast, as noted by Franklin whenever he addresses the media. Some in-your-face gamesmanship on his part - rubbing it in Pitt's face since Givens is a Pitt de-commit. Meanwhile, at least in this point of his career, Givens isn't worthy to even carry Aaron Donald's jock.

 

[88Pitt88]

Narduzzi hasnt come close to stopping a spread yet.......but we are talking about PSU's 2nd game in the new offense with a new QB making his first road start. If PSU puts up a lot of points and wins this game, I will really question Narduzzi's coaching ability. If he can win this game, why is he our HC?

SMF, I don't think they can put up enough to win but, I do think we may struggle to stop their O if it is a true spread. Narduzzi has begun to upgrade the talent of the defense, but some of it will not be ready to play this year. If we see a true spread with 1 back and no TE with 4 and 5 receiver sets, how would we line up against that? Our linebackers would be exposed. We would have to try to play it with our best defensive backs and get the backers off the field. That could be quite difficult for us.
When Duzz can upgrade the speed of our backers and I do believe he will, then we will have a shut down D. Give him time, he will deliver a defense that we can all be proud of.

 

[ratking17]

The great thing about psu playing High octane is 3 and outs with 1 minute time of possession are killers. I like our chances

 

[Ski11585]

-I see LSU ranked in the preseason top 3 in just about every preseason ranking, and number 1 in a number of rankings. I suggest you watch LSU clown teams this year in the run game.

LSU can get away with a one dimensional offense because their entire defense is made up of elite players. Pitt is years and years away from even sniffing that at one position.

 

[Piranha]

LSU can get away with a one dimensional offense because their entire defense is made up of elite players. Pitt is years and years away from even sniffing that at one position.

Did u ever hear of Aaron Donald? Great call!

 

[88Pitt88]

LSU can get away with a one dimensional offense because their entire defense is made up of elite players. Pitt is years and years away from even sniffing that at one position.

That is a bit shortsighted in that we had Donald and now we have a frosh AA inn Mr. Whitehead. In fact we have quite abit of talent on D. They do have superior overall talent, but not at every position.

 

[88Pitt88]

Iam seriously really confused why LSU is in this thread.

LSU was used to rebut Steele's argument that a power running game could succeed against a loaded box. It was pointed out that they struggled to run against teams with good defenses.

 

[steel_curtain]

LSU was used to rebut Steele's argument that a power running game could succeed against a loaded box. It was pointed out that they struggled to run against teams with good defenses.

-You don't think their talent being young had anything to do with it? 95 Nebraska would clown any team in today's college game. No one can even argue it. LSU is of goimg to be a boss this year, just watch.

 

[thebadby2]

- Your record prediction for Pitt and LSU this year?

What would my predictions as to Pitt and LSU's respective records have to do with this debate you started about balanced offense versus run-heavy offense?

Well I'll indulge you anyway.

LSU is always in the converastion, they always have great team talent, especially on defense. They will need to be able to throw the ball to be able to challenge Bama for the SEC. I don't see that happening this year with that same QB coming back. They are in line to have a good year but I don't think they get past Bama.

As for Pitt, we had one of the best run game coaches in the country for 3 years and couldn't win more than 6 games in any of his 3 seasons. Offensively I don't think we're better than we were in PC's last year here. I don't think Matt Canada is the second coming of Tom Osborne that you tout him as. Defensively we have some question marks but we should be decent. Until we have better athletes we will have a lot of problems with the LI think we have a shot at 8 wins this season (not including an ACC playoff game or bowls) but more likely we get 7. I think as usual we beat the teams we're supposed to beat-this includes PSU-and lose to the teams we're supposed to lose to, like Oklahoma State. Somewhere in there will likely be at least one bummer loss-like to a G. Tech. Because we're not there yet. We have yet another brand new OC and playbook. We are young on D. Our best player is still iffy from cancer and chemo. Even if he's back he's not likely to be full strength. We have a pedestrian game manager of a QB, and if he goes down, we have nothing behind him-think VT last year after Brewer got hurt. We have no established threat in the passing game. I'm sure you will once again cite Dontez Ford's 19 YPC as though that makes him the equivalent of a game breaker like Will Fuller. What it really means is he didn't catch many balls (26) but had a couple of long ones. He's a solid player, but he's no home run hitter, no downfield burner, in case you haven't seen him play. 26 catches on the year, 3 total TDs, high game of 4 catches and 78 yards. And he's the best WR we have coming back.

So there you have it. My opinions and the facts i base them on. I want Pitt to win every game and I'll be rooting for that every week, but the reality as I see it is that it will be very tough for this team to get 8 regular season wins this year. If Dooz pulls off 8 or 9, back up the Brinks truck and lock him down for the long haul. I think he's doing a good job so far, but the program has a good way to go yet before we're competing for league titles.

And as for penciling in big wins and talking a bunch of smack about running roughshod over teams 4 months before the season starts, and with our track record of the past 30 years, that's just foolishness.

 

[rockypanther]

-You don't think their talent being young had anything to do with it? 95 Nebraska would clown any team in today's college game. No one can even argue it. LSU is of goimg to be a boss this year, just watch.

We are now 1995 Nebraska? Were you even alive yet to watch them play? They would score a 100 points on our defense. They were an outlier because nobody could stop their system or adjust to it at that time. Then teams and coaches adjusted and there haven't been those type of dominating all running teams since.

 

[rockypanther]

Our type of system does not portend itself to being able to pound 75% rushing and win. We are pro style without a running QB threat and little WR proven talent. Other teams will stack against us.

Also, if you look at how slowly we started games last season. We played catch up in more than half meaning we had to have at least a more balanced offense. That could very well happen again.

 

[steel_curtain]

Our type of system does not portend itself to being able to pound 75% rushing and win. We are pro style without a running QB threat and little WR proven talent. Other teams will stack against us.

Also, if you look at how slowly we started games last season. We played catch up in more than half meaning we had to have at least a more balanced offense. That could very well happen again.

-Matt Canada disagrees with you. As does his play sets. Get ready for the barge formation and power run loading the line and blowing the defense off the line of scrimmage.

 

[rockypanther]

-Matt Canada disagrees with you. As does his play sets. Get ready for the barge formation and power run loading the line and blowing the defense off the line of scrimmage.

I must have missed his first game as OC at Pitt. How did we do?

 

[vegasgreed]

Steel has already put Matt Canada in the Pitt football hall of fame...

 

[Noffas]

-Why didn't anyone stop 1995 Nebraska?

-Why is LSU running the football on 65% of its plays?

-Why does Vegas have Pitt a 9 point favorite over Penn State?

-Why did Army rush for almost 300 yards last year against Penn State?



-I predicted Pitt to win 8 games, minimum. Per ESPN's power index and the early lines, Pitt will be favored to win in at least 8 games this year. I also predict Pitt is going to run hog wild all over Penn State. Penn State can put 10 in the box, they arent stopping it.

-People need to watch more football outside of Pitt. I think one of my favorite games last year was watching Baylor run the wildcat all over Oklahoma State. They did it over, and over, and over again, the Oklahoma State couldnt stop it. They flat out couldnt stop it. That's why I love Power run games.

-Matt Canada = Power Run Coordinator.

Army throw the ball 1 time that's why they rush 261 yards duh
why did Navy rush for 417 yards on Pitt?

 

[DruidTM]

Iam seriously really confused why LSU is in this thread.

I think it's because Pitt and LSU have big cats as mascots or something?

 

[Pitt79]

That's a STUPID thought. Of course you have to throw. Not because you need to, but because YOU WANT TO! You LOVE TO, you LIVE FOR IT! Modern football IS throwing the ball. You throw as no less than 50-60% of your snaps minimum, not only if "you need to", but because that's what football teams do.

 

[Pitt79]

-The best college football team of All time, 1995 Nebraska, ran the football on 75% of its plays, including bowl game, and that team would have killed any team today, and would have annihilated Clemson last year, completely annihilated them.. I see no reason to throw the football on 45% of the plays when we have one of the best offensive lines and running backs in the entire country. 45% sounds like Jim Chaney. Pass. If we aren't running at least 65% run plays, there is a problem. When Matt Canada Coached Wisconsin in 2012 when they won the Big Ten, they ran the football 68.5% of the time. Everyone here should get used to the run, that is what we are going to do.

That's ancient history, that's not how they play football in the modern times! It's stupid to long for that nonsense. Spread the field, throw, play to run up the score and attract the kids who have fun at 7-on-7 camps. That is the future.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

SMF, I don't think they can put up enough to win but, I do think we may struggle to stop their O if it is a true spread. Narduzzi has begun to upgrade the talent of the defense, but some of it will not be ready to play this year. If we see a true spread with 1 back and no TE with 4 and 5 receiver sets, how would we line up against that? Our linebackers would be exposed. We would have to try to play it with our best defensive backs and get the backers off the field. That could be quite difficult for us.
When Duzz can upgrade the speed of our backers and I do believe he will, then we will have a shut down D. Give him time, he will deliver a defense that we can all be proud of.

In their 2nd game, do you know how bad PSU's spread will be? If we cant stop THAT spread, will we stop ANY?

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Yes. Pitt will need to throw it. Or, just be efficient with limited yards. Say 250+ on the ground and 125+ through the air. It's doable. I expect their O to look A LOT like it did when Conner was healthy and Voytik started.

 

[Ski11585]

Did u ever hear of Aaron Donald? Great call!

Way to pick up on the one bit of hyperbole and completely miss the point. Good job!!!

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Me thinks Ditka can take them all by himself

 

[ratking17]

Ditka vs god?

 

[cbpitt2]

LSU had 54 yards rushing last year vs. Bama as then Heisman front runner Leonard Fournette had just 31 yards on 19 carries. Bama's DL is going to be good again this year. Talk all you want SteelC, LSU will not run over Alabama.

From: http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2016/01/could_alabamas_defense_actuall.html

Nick Saban and Kirby Smart assembled so much defensive talent that even with significant losses, there are guys willing and able to slide into the vacant roles. There's no denying that Alabama's defensive line won't have the ridiculous depth it did in 2015, but a front of Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne and Da'Shawn Hand is stacked. Alabama had so much depth this year that Hand, a former five-star recruit, mostly played on the third-team, but he showed against Clemson why he's the next big thing on the Tide's defense. Allen, who could have been a first-round pick had he left with Robinson, should be the leader of the defensive line.

Add in Dalvin Tomlinson, who was terrific at batting down passes, and Josh Frazier, plus a few highly-rated incoming recruits, and defensive line coach Bo Davis will have plenty to work with.

 

[thebadby2]

-Matt Canada disagrees with you. As does his play sets. Get ready for the barge formation and power run loading the line and blowing the defense off the line of scrimmage.

Maybe the word is out among H.S quarterbacks that Canada intends to run out of the barge formation all the time. That would explain why we're not getting any of them to commit. That kind of offense doesn't offer anything to QBs and WRs.

Fortunately, the reality is, we will throw the ball our fair share, even though we will emphasize a strong running game. Contrary to your misplaced belief, Narduzzi wants balance in his offense in the same way MSU has it. The offense won;t look a ton different from last year. Canada has already said as much. We will still run 2 wide on most sets, we will utilize a slot receiver in some sets, and we will run off play action. We will see a variety of formations and sets, including pistol sets out of the shotgun like we used all last year. I'm sure the barge will make its appearances situationally but it certainly won't ever be our base set. Again, see MSU--that's what we're trying to do at Pitt. But we aren't about to turn into a Tom Osborne Nebraska option team, or even a Brett Bielema/Wisconsin type 2 TE power offense. We will run a true pro style offense.

We probably won;t need to throw it much against the weaker defenses, against better Ds we will have to throw it plenty.

 

[wbrpanther]

-Looking at lasts years games, these teams pounded them into the ground.

-Army put up 270 rush yards on Penn State

-Maryland put up 240 rush yards on Penn State

-Michigan State posted 190 rush yards and 3 Rush TD's on Penn State

-Ohio State put up 320 rush yards and 3 Rush TD's on Penn State

-Northwestern put up 240 Rush yards on Penn State

-Temple put up 150 Rush yards and 3 Rush TD's on Penn State

-This team couldn't stop anyone last year that had any pulse whatsoever in the run game. Pitt has a better offensive line and stable of RB's than all of these teams going into next year. And Penn State lost all its talent on the D-line. And everyone knows Matt Canada loves pounding the football and running it.

- 270 Rush yards given up to 2-10 Army Black Knights at 5 yards per carry. We should run the ball over 75% of the entire game if not more using the barge formation. They aren't stopping it and we are going to look like 95 Nebraska running against this team. They are going to get a big wakeup call real soon. No wonder the point spread in Vegas is so high. Now that I looked closer at their run defense last year and the inexperienced underweight smurfs they have on the D-line this year, its laughable. We are going to blast this team in the run game.

I am as bullish on Pitt as anyone but when did we become an unstopable juggernaut.

Let's not talk foolishness.

 

[88Pitt88]

-You don't think their talent being young had anything to do with it? 95 Nebraska would clown any team in today's college game. No one can even argue it. LSU is of goimg to be a boss this year, just watch.[/

In their 2nd game, do you know how bad PSU's spread will be? If we cant stop THAT spread, will we stop ANY?

You do realize that a spread is designed to create mismatches and get elite quick and speedy players isolated on slower players. Penn State has some talent. They have Barkley and several solid receivers, is it that hard to believe that they might be able to get some of these guys in a 1 on 1 situation against our slower backers or even 1 on 1 against a smaller Avante Maddox?
Like you, I don't suspect they will be real sharp in game 2, that said, I still don't find it that hard to believe that they will break some plays on our defense. My biggest worry though, is that Mcsorely can run it well. We have absolutely sucked over the years at defending teams with mobile quarterbacks. In fairness though, many college defenses and even pro defenses struggle to defend quarterbacks who can boogie.

 

[steel_curtain]

You do realize that a spread is designed to create mismatches and get elite quick and speedy players isolated on slower players. Penn State has some talent. They have Barkley and several solid receivers, is it that hard to believe that they might be able to get some of these guys in a 1 on 1 situation against our slower backers or even 1 on 1 against a smaller Avante Maddox?
Like you, I don't suspect they will be real sharp in game 2, that said, I still don't find it that hard to believe that they will break some plays on our defense. My biggest worry though, is that Mcsorely can run it well. We have absolutely sucked over the years at defending teams with mobile quarterbacks. In fairness though, many college defenses and even pro defenses struggle to defend quarterbacks who can boogie.

-You realize Pitts rush yard per game defense was ranked 20th in the country last year, right? But this entire thread is about Pitt running the ball down Penn State's throat and their inability to stop it.

 

[dclionsfan]

It's all up to our oline. That's the question can the get better?