Duke & Zion legal stuff
- Thread starter Drew1208
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I think those people are so mad that he left them hanging when they thought they were in like Flynn with and all his upcoming deals. Now they're hoping to embarrass or make them very uncomfortable so they have to do a settlement but I don't think it's going to work. He was so much in the spotlight as a senior that I think it was darn near impossible to give money to their family without somebody finding out way before now IMHO.
This is naive or whishfull thinking.
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The people who get money/amenities to these kids aren’t stupid. Contrary to popular belief, coaches don’t drive to a kids house and drop off a gym bag full of cash. When it’s done, the tracks are well hidden and a lot of times funneled through legit sources. “Consulting” was the big fad not long ago. A lot of prospects family members/advisors found themselves adding “Consultant” to their resume.
It’s been established by the FBI stuff that the going rate for a 5 star kid is around 100-150K and I don’t believe that includes housing/cars/other stuff. Zion was probably the most hyped prospect in the last decade, so it wouldn’t stun me if the numbers floated around him approached 1M.
Will this be the time Duke finally gets caught? I’d bet not, but that class with Zion, Reddish, and Barrett had a stink around it at the time and that isn’t going away. Duke always gets a one and done every year or two, but to grab three high profile kids in one class was unusual even for them.
Shoe companies paying players to go to Duke. Coach K is shocked. In fact, they have his reaction on tape.
Sorry for you young guys who don't know about Casablanca.
Sorry for you young guys who don't know about Casablanca.
I'm not being naive and not saying it couldn't be done but what I am saying is usually when this stuff happens there's a change in their parents lifestyle. Does anyone know was there a change in their lifestyle like a new cars a new house and vacations that's how they end up getting caught a lot of the times because they're not used to that extra money especially in the urban neighborhoods trust me I know that part. These people are trying to find something because he ditch them when it was time to make big moves and they think they deserve to have some of it now I don't know if they do or they don't but it's ironic that no one else has really came after them for getting extra benefits to my knowledge If someone knows different please speak up.
I suspect its like Goodfellas. When payments are made it comes with the “advice” to keep a low profile. Some are able, some are not.
Didn’t I tell you not to buy anything?
Basically, they are trying to force him/his family into a corner and either look real bad and/or settle. I would also look to relevance but I have not read the complaint to be able to truly opine.
I do not think that Zion's family's hands are clean at all here and that a lot of the actions that they took (including aligning themselves originally with Ford and her team) speak to aggressive money grabbing. The stepfather's demands stated on that Adidas tape point to that conclusion as well.
I have not read too much into the case in general but it sounds like the licensing may be the end issue, even more than the contract itself. If the agent could not legally perform on the contract, it is hard for them to make a case I would think.
Nonetheless, if it touches Duke, it could impact Pitt. Capel, Nate James and Scheyer all recruited Zion as a team effort with Capel and James being regarded as the joint lead recruiters. Duke was a stunning choice for Zion as well which does add some smoke to the fire here, whether directed at Duke or more than likely Nike.
My belief, which has been substantiated in some other places at times, is that the real bagman at Duke has been Nike for awhile. So, I am not terribly worried about Capel in this case because I think Nike likely layers the coaches at Duke was so much plausible deniability that I just cannot see anything happening there.
But, it will be interesting to see how/if Zion's team responds.
Getting BAGley in the prior class to move up classes when Nike paid for his family to have their own AAU team and moved them to Sierra Canyon was suspect as well.
Agree that the agency is trying to air Zion's dirty laundry to make him look bad and force a settlement. It's a low-rent move, but they're not going to get Rule 11'd for it.
Zion's counsel objects, maybe the agency moves to compel. Then they have to explain to a judge why they need discovery into Zion's high school recruiting to prove up their case about him breaching a contract in 2019. Feels like a stretch.
Know what else is a stretch? According to an article, Zion's defense is that the contract isn't enforceable because NC law requires agents to tell prospective that going pro waives their college eligibility. And he didn't receive a proper notice from the agent. Sounds pretty weak (How could he not know? And if he did, would it matter?).
Assuming these kids and their parents / handlers are so naive to take money without any strings attached to it is being beyond stupid . If Zion or whomever took money and signed a contract they should be help responsible if they’re of age . Now if your so dumb to take money and sign a contract without seeking advise then that’s on you . If it then cost them something to buy out the contract so be it , someone like Zion will never miss the cash and if your a dud those fronting the money lose the investment .
You don't think in this day and age - top Bagmen have risk mitigation as a primary skill?
I don’t think this stuff will really matter much. They have miller and Wade on tape from what... 2017? And they’re still working. So let’s say the NCAA dives into this. When will they come down on Duke? 2023? K will skate until he decides to retire and screw over Bobby Hurley taking over.
When is someone besides HBO real sports going to call out Coach Kalipari from Dook?
He does the same things that UK does, and gets away with that Rat scowl on the bench.
He does the same things that UK does, and gets away with that Rat scowl on the bench.
Zion's family made great tax-free money for Zion to go to school at Duke for one semester. I'm guessing that he didn't go to many classes in the second semester because the NCAA Tourney was over before finals.
This is a prime example of why the NBA needs to fully fund its own minor league. I don't blame Zion for taking money. Hell, the great Coach K makes about $9,000,000 per year, off the sweat of kids like Zion.
This is a prime example of why the NBA needs to fully fund its own minor league. I don't blame Zion for taking money. Hell, the great Coach K makes about $9,000,000 per year, off the sweat of kids like Zion.
The NBA funds its own minor league called the G-League.
I think the interplay between the colleges and the players is one of those things that gets too much TV time. The colleges put up all the money and give the kids education, first class coaching, training, exposure, etc. Without the colleges, mostly all players do not exist after HS.
Without the colleges, the players do not get those things above. And, if you make the G-League, you generally get between $35K (they are talking about raising the salaries but minor league salaries are not high generally across sports). There are now two-way and select contracts that pay much more but those are the minority of deals.
Yes, the coaches make big money but they also have big stress. That said, without Duke and Coach K, maybe Zion, out of HS, could cobble together contracts (salary and endorsements) worth around $20M total. It might have been less. Zion had some questions coming from HS and he was not going to be the number 1 or maybe even a top 5-10 pick.
With Duke and Coach K, Zion was able to secure over $100M. The truth is, Duke did more for him than he did for Duke. And, it is usually that way for most players. Because most either get more value from the coaching/training/education that they could ever get from a professional league coming from HS if they could even make it (most of them are not good enough and/or mentally ready to play professional at that point).
Most of these guys need the education more than anything because they are not playing much basketball after college (and some do for very little money overseas). The best players get the value of the exposure, which generally increases their own value once they start making money.
I will say that I think that the NBA should allow one and dones again. But, that is collectively bargained between the owners and players. The owners do not want the risks of the one and dones as there were not huge success rates with them, especially going towards the final years that the NBA allowed them. And the players would rather see veterans getting bigger pieces of the pie than young kids fresh from HS (or college).
Most people blame the colleges when they really should blame the NBA owners and players. But, I guess the colleges are easy fall guys ...
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People forget this point... Zion was ranked FIFTH in the 247 final composite. You’re 100 percent right. Without Duke’s platform and visibility, he’s worth a fraction of what he was after it. Remember how much hype the busted shoe got!? That doesn’t happen in the G league or in Australia.
The public portrays Coach K as the guy wearing the white hat, and Coach Cal as wearing the black hat. But they are essentially doing the same thing.
I hate to admit this as a recovering attorney, but I really only remember Rule 12 federally (if this is a federal case).
On the subject of the contract, that sounds almost as weak as it gets. It would seem to me that if the agent is not properly registered and the contract does not speak to a period in which to get registered, you would just argue that the agent could not perform on the duties and timing suggests that he needed performance (which he clearly did). Not being able to perform within a certain time period looks like material breach to me, but I have not worked on a contract case in around 10 years now.
I doubt Zion's high school recruiting has relevance in a contract case unless the agent facilitated the recruiting, which I would think puts the agent in some sort of jeopardy with the law (see the Adidas case). But, I do not know anything about that area of the law either. So, I am really just throwing things out there at this point.
Either way, it just seems to me like so much of this could have been avoided. And, pride/poor decisions have us where we are at, in all likelihood.
I imagine a lot of the Lair doesn't like Bomani because he brings up race pretty regularly, but he's my favorite mainstream voice in sports right now. I stumbled upon him back when he was based out of Canada on SiriusXM in... 2009? I think he's a really smart guy and appreciate his perspective.
Yes, I know about the G-League. Everyone does. You missed my point being that the NCAA has served as the NBA's cost-free minor league for too long.
We all know that too many of these guys do not get a real, usable, degree after their eligibility is spent. Sort of like a gal getting a Mesopotamian Dance Degree. It won't help much after college. There are a lot of other avenues to prepare someone for a career. I think during his entire time at Cincinnati Huggins did not have a player graduate.
When welders can make close to $200,000 (with overtime), or plumbers can name their hourly rates, or electricians, etc....A BS college degree won't help much either and we end up with massive academic fraud like we saw at UNC.
I don't really care if Coach K is under stress. That means nothing to me. For $9,000,000 he can deal with it, or get a different job.
I don't believe that a kid should be forced to attend a sham year of college for one year, and make Duke, UNC, Coach K, Coach Roy, or whomever, wealthy. Zion, as an American, should have the right, as an adult, to try to play in the NBA as soon as he is 18-years old. If that means getting paid $300,000 to play a year or two in the G-League so be it.
I understand your beliefs, but once again blame the NBA and not the colleges. Duke or Kentucky or Pitt or whichever college is not holding Zion or anyone else back.
And all of these kids have the entirety of Europe and the rest of the world as an option out of HS without needing to go through the NBA or the colleges. No one, or very few, want to go that route. It is their decision.
As far as the minor league point, it loses validity by the day as the NBA has opened the G-League to some select kids directly out of HS and kids are free to leave college after a year and take their chances. Most do not, because the colleges give them a lot more than they can go out and get on their own.
And try getting most jobs without a college degree these days. I understand the trades are able to make money but most people want nothing to do with those jobs (and just because you go play at a college, does not mean you cannot be like anyone else and take 12-24 months in a trade school afterwards on your own dime).
I think a lot of your feelings here are misplaced and lacking logic.
This is coming from a college sports fan. , but the absurdity of the two highest paid people at most major universities are the Fb and Bb coaches shows there’s something wrong with the system .
I don’t blame any kid ( or parent ) in trying to get compensated for their services when their coach and school is making millions of dollars off their skills .
Duke only provided a stage for Zion to showcase his talents . Coach K had nothing to do with developing Zions god given skills .
I don’t blame any kid ( or parent ) in trying to get compensated for their services when their coach and school is making millions of dollars off their skills .
Duke only provided a stage for Zion to showcase his talents . Coach K had nothing to do with developing Zions god given skills .
Rule 11 deals with sanctioning attorneys in federal cases. It's oft-raised and rarely enforced.
I'm coming around on Zion's argument, I was too quick to judge.
Here's the NC Statute: "An agency contract must contain, in close proximity to the signature of the student-athlete, a conspicuous notice in boldface type in capital letters stating...YOU SHALL LOSE YOUR ELIGIBILITY TO COMPETE AS A STUDENT-ATHLETE IN YOUR SPORT...An agency contract that does not conform to this section is voidable by the student-athlete." Art. 9, § 78C-94, Uniform Athlete Agents Act.
It boggles the mind that the most hyped prospect in years wouldn't know (or would care) he's forfeiting his eligibility. But the statute is clear as crystal. Then there's the registration issue too. Looks like the agent (or her lawyer) might have screwed this up to the tune of couple hundred million bucks.
Coach K has never had the sanctions and never gotten caught up in anything while Cal had sanctions at UMass and Memphis. Those are just the facts. People can be cynical and say he’s doing the same thing but that’s just their opinion because right now the facts don’t back that up. I’m a Calipari fan because he’s from Pittsburgh but it’s pretty easy to see why the perceptions of him are that he’s slimier.
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