I see that Duke already has four of the top twelve players for 2018 and now the top kid from 2019 has reclassed to 2018. Duke has become a total basketball factory with all these guys. I remember Capel saying that he wanted to build a program and that Duke ceased to be a program when it decided to take the one and dones. Hopefully Capel can build that program right here. Screw Duke and the horse it rod in on.
Duke
- Thread starter zucca
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HCJC was primarily responsible for their move toward taking the one and dones ...
That's correct. The OP just made that nonsense up. Like Capel would ever say something like "Duke ceased to be a program" in the first place, even if he actually did believe it, which he doesn't.
Pretty much. How do you say no to NBA talent? Who wouldn't want that? But many Duke fans are frustrated with the OAD teams. You need top-10 players every year to replace the top-10 players you just lost. That is hard to sustain. And sometimes freshmen aren't nearly as good as advertised (Derryck Thornton/Chase Jeter).
Depending on OADs also makes it harder for the 4-star recruits to have patience when they feel like they're being recruited over every year. I think this is partly why Duke has started to recruit less-talented players like Vrankovic, Jack White and Jordan Goldwire. They're told from day 1 that they're not promised anything and they'll have to work their butts off to earn any minutes. They don't have the same expectations as say a Semi Ojeleye or a Mike Gbinije... but it kind of does suck because we rarely have veteran leadership. Duke has had just 5 seniors the last 4 years. I would be content to have 2 OAD players a year, but again, how do you say no to top-end talent?
With that being said, Capel is going to go after the best available talent. He knows he's less likely to land top 25 players at Pitt, but he's still going to pursue the likes of Cole Anthony, Bryan Antoine, Precious Achiuwa, and Josh Green.
It would seem to me the right mix of players is the way to go . If you recruit only OND then your stuck into a viscous cycle of trying to replace them every year . Third yr four stars should be able to hang with all , but the ultra elite . Three 4* star juniors and two OND seems like a nice mix to me .
A school like Pitt adding an elite player to a good roster of upperclassman every few years gives them a chance against more highly skilled , but younger teams like Duke .
Duke needs more balance in who they take. All one-and-dones is frustrating, and ultimately, not successful.
Villanova has that balance. Excellent recruits, but most guys are multi-year players; they look that way on the way in, and they stay and develop. Fortunately, Capel won't be able to get the very best players, not yet anyway, and he'll have to "settle" for very talented second tier guys, which are the type that Nova and UNC have been getting.
I know people will point to Duke winning a NC with three one-and-dones, but one, there were experienced players on that team too, and two, that was four years ago now. Duke has become an all one-and-done team the last few years, like Kentucky, and while they win games, neither has made it to a final 4 in four years now. Nova and UNC have each made it twice, together winning the last 3 NCs.
There's some truth there, for sure. I think Villanova definitely has the right mixture. And they're the hot program right now, so they could easily nab 1-2 top 25 kids. Arcidiacono, Ochefu, Hart, Jenkins, Brunson, Bridges, Booth, Paschall. Lots of talented upperclassmen the past 3 seasons.
But I wouldn't say the OAD Formula is a complete bust. Calipari has made it to the Elite 8 in 6 of his 9 seasons at Kentucky. Coach K has only had a OAD team for three years (2015, 2017, 2018), and he's made it to the Elite 8 two of those three times. I'd say 8 out of 12 is pretty good odds. I'll take my chances with that, personally. Villanova has been wildly successful lately. I'd prefer to recruit like them with 1-2 Top 10 kids mixed in there. But they have also failed a lot, too. In the last 9 years, 2016 and 2018 were the only years they made it to the Sweet 16. Obviously the end result was terrific both times, but they've had several under-achieving teams... And UNC has also built a terrific program with ridiculous continuity. But I would note that they've missed the 2nd weekend of the tournament 3 out of the last 6 times. Every great program has had rough patches. Kentucky and Duke's success is certainly more volatile because it's ultra-dependent on the success of the freshmen.
Even brief glimpses at the Kentucky and Duke message boards will show you that our never ending on campus stadium argument is their "how do you say no to a top 10 player?" vs "we have too many one and dones!" argument.
lol yep. Seems like it's a never-ending discussion that comes up every 2 weeks. I'd be cool with two 4-star recruits and two 5-star recruits on average, per class. But I suppose it's hard to get that balance, especially when you have to replace your entire starting lineup most years. Capel seems to be zoning in on mostly 4-star kids, which is good. Guys with high ceilings, but also guys who will probably be here for 3+ years.
Ok - so for the record - Grayson Allen DID graduate, right?
He's entering Carl Krauser territory.
Ok - so for the record - Grayson Allen DID graduate, right?
He's entering Carl Krauser territory.
Grayson Allen was at Duke so long he was bound to trip into a diploma.
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