Expand the Tournament

[MorningCoffee13]

Expand it This weekend is a harbinger of future years with NIL and the portal. Teams will take longer to gel and you will see teams looking way better in February than they did in November. You will see teams making runs in their tournament and knocking out deserving teams.

just expand it. I want to see the bubble teams play. Give me Pitt. Give me Wake. Give me ISU for Gods sake.

 

[Gep Dawg]

I agree but I'm not sure they will. All this bracketology nonsense is big business and keeps eyeballs on conference tournaments that have become pretty boring recently

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yep, I said this a few weeks ago and was criticized. Forget that the playoff participation rate for NCAA D1 basketball is lower than any other sports entity, pro or college, the NCAA has to realize it has a different sport now with the portal. Its not just that teams take longer to gel. There's just no bad teams anymore. Even Missouri going 0-18 kinda shows you that. They beat Stallings Pitt by 30. They were picked 9th in the SEC and were in others receiving votes. Not sure Mizzou is a great example of this but I mean with the portal, there's no more rebuilding years. Talent distributes itself pretty evenly every year. So although you'll always have a few good teams on those 1 or 2 lines, the difference between a 3 seed in the NCAA Tournament and a 3 seed in the NIT is minimal in terms of talent. Its never been that close. Look at teams who dont even have a shot here: Cincy, Ohio St, Wake, etc. Those are good teams and dont even have a prayer of getting in.

Now I dont think we go crazy. I said 72 teams. Have 8 16 seeds play for those 4 spots and the last 8 at-larges play for the 4 11 seeds. I could live with 74 or 76 also but I wouldn't go past that.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

All I know is that there will be a ton of teams in the NCAAT this year who don't belong there and a ton of teams who didn't get in and deserved to be there and playing in the NIT. Pitt is one of them. I'm not sure expanding the tournament would help that.

 

[wbrpanther]

Expand it This weekend is a harbinger of future years with NIL and the portal. Teams will take longer to gel and you will see teams looking way better in February than they did in November. You will see teams making runs in their tournament and knocking out deserving teams.

just expand it. I want to see the bubble teams play. Give me Pitt. Give me Wake. Give me ISU for Gods sake.

It ain't broke so don't fix it. This year we want to add 4 teams so Pitt gets in. No matter what number you expand to there will still be a bubble and there will still be bitching.

 

[MorningCoffee13]

It ain't broke so don't fix it. This year we want to add 4 teams so Pitt gets in. No matter what number you expand to there will still be a bubble and there will still be bitching.

It is broke.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Yep, I said this a few weeks ago and was criticized. Forget that the playoff participation rate for NCAA D1 basketball is lower than any other sports entity, pro or college, the NCAA has to realize it has a different sport now with the portal. Its not just that teams take longer to gel. There's just no bad teams anymore. Even Missouri going 0-18 kinda shows you that. They beat Stallings Pitt by 30. They were picked 9th in the SEC and were in others receiving votes. Not sure Mizzou is a great example of this but I mean with the portal, there's no more rebuilding years. Talent distributes itself pretty evenly every year. So although you'll always have a few good teams on those 1 or 2 lines, the difference between a 3 seed in the NCAA Tournament and a 3 seed in the NIT is minimal in terms of talent. Its never been that close. Look at teams who dont even have a shot here: Cincy, Ohio St, Wake, etc. Those are good teams and dont even have a prayer of getting in.

Now I dont think we go crazy. I said 72 teams. Have 8 16 seeds play for those 4 spots and the last 8 at-larges play for the 4 11 seeds. I could live with 74 or 76 also but I wouldn't go past that.

NCAA football is lower, obviously. But I would argue that no sport holds such an insane range of teams (talent and resources-wise) as NCAA basketball either. There are at least 150 of them that are total trash on a national relevancy level - to a point where they would be playing in a different league in most sports. In would be like lumping on AA and AAA teams with MLB teams.

 

[JD1976]

It is broke.

I think there is some room for addition but hopefully it does not go past 72 or so.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

72 max.

 

[DT_PITT]

Expand it This weekend is a harbinger of future years with NIL and the portal. Teams will take longer to gel and you will see teams looking way better in February than they did in November. You will see teams making runs in their tournament and knocking out deserving teams.

just expand it. I want to see the bubble teams play. Give me Pitt. Give me Wake. Give me ISU for Gods sake.

I don’t know that I agree with you but if a good chunk of teams opt out of the NIT almost necessitating it’s end, this will also add to your case.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It ain't broke so don't fix it. This year we want to add 4 teams so Pitt gets in. No matter what number you expand to there will still be a bubble and there will still be bitching.

I don't understand this logic. We arent saying to go to 96 or 128. And Im not just saying this because Pitt has been on the bubble 2 years in a row. This is AAU ball now. Guys are free agents every year. Pay for play is here (disguised as collectives paying NIL). Teams can get good really fast and no one can be really bad anymore. Because of the redistribution of talent, there's almost no talent difference between the #10 team in the country and #50. Its never been like that.

Even if we agree that this is an unusual year and let's say the MWC, A10, American, ACC, and P12 didn't have bid stealers in their tournaments, would it ruin the NCAA Tournament if lets say your last 8 teams in playing in Dayton for 4 spots in the Round of 64 were like:

Wake vs Cincy
Iowa vs Providence
Ohio State vs Indiana State
Kansas State vs Villanova

Would people really boycott those games? Would people watch less of the regular season? No one watches the regular season anyway. Would Champ Week ratings go down? Even if people didnt like these games and didnt watch in any meaningful numbers, it doesnt change the appeal of the Round of 64, 32, Sweet 16, etc.

What they would also need to do is push the start of these games to Wednesday. Have 2 sites. Dayton and whatever the 2nd best college sports/college basketball fanbase is who would buy tickets. Omaha? Indianapolis? Des Moines? Midwesterners are unbelievable sports fans.

You'd need to have these games in the bracket challenge pools so people will watch. Brackets due by 6PM Wednesday instead of noon on Thursday. Not a huge deal.

Wednesday
6:00 Dayton 16 seeds
8:00 Omaha 16 seeds
8:30 Dayton 11 seeds
10:30 Omaha 11 seeds

Repeat schedule on Thursday.

1st/2nd Round runs Fri/Sun and Sat/Mon giving school kids and people who work in the office the chance to watch 1st Round games on Saturday.

 

[Ski11585]

No. We don’t need more bad teams.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No. We don’t need more bad teams.

Are you against 20/30 NBA teams making the playoffs?

 

[Ski11585]

Are you against 20/30 NBA teams making the playoffs?

Yes. And I’m against the expanded playoffs in MLB and NFL.

 

[MorningCoffee13]

I don’t know that I agree with you but if a good chunk of teams opt out of the NIT almost necessitating it’s end, this will also add to your case.

I don’t know. I see this weekend and how many conference underdogs came through and ask why not invite them to the big dance as well? I think you would get more of an abundance of exciting games. Am I correct in spitballing and saying UCONN was only power conference champ to win their tourney?

To be honest I would go for a whole new weekend and expand all the way out to 256. Let it be pure madness.


BwaHaHaHa!!!!!

 

[Las Panteras]

The more you expand a tournament, the more saturated ALL the games become. Yea its a great story for the fans / teams involved in just getting into the tourney, but the largest chunk of fans watch the sweet 16 weekend and beyond.

No amount of additional teams / games will change that.

 

[MorningCoffee13]

The more you expand a tournament, the more saturated ALL the games become. Yea its a great story for the fans / teams involved in just getting into the tourney, but the largest chunk of fans watch the sweet 16 weekend and beyond.

No amount of additional teams / games will change that.

Please provide the data on people watching. Sounds like some made up crap.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

No. We don’t need more bad teams.

Contract the tournament back to 64, if anything

 

[Vader_Storm]

Contract the tournament back to 64, if anything

Yea. I dont want to see it bigger. I used to hate the play in games too when it first started. But I think its just right the way it is right now with a few extra play in games as a warm up for the real tournament. Its like the perfect appetizer.

 

[shermars]

How many teams are in due to COVID year? 6th, 7th, or 8th year. I’m sure the strength of the bubble is very tied to these numbers.

 

[Vader_Storm]

How many teams are in due to COVID year? 6th, 7th, or 8th year. I’m sure the strength of the bubble is very tied to these numbers.

Im assuming you mean upper classmen?

The mountain west is loaded with seniors and 5th year seniors. This is another thing I cant wait to be over, all these players getting an extra covid year and guys trying to play until they turn 30.


The book is finally over on Xavier Johnson after his 6th season in college basketball. Finally.

 

[shermars]

Seth Towns of Howard. 8th year. It’s out of control.

 

[MorningCoffee13]

Contract the tournament back to 64, if anything

Expand expand expand.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Seth Towns of Howard. 8th year. It’s out of control.

Its time for this shit to end. Its actually giving all these midmajor schools the upper hand by having a bunch of 25 year old 5th and 6th year seniors on their team when schools like Kentucky and Duke are still going with 18 year olds.


That door is getting shut real soon. Like I said above, I cant wait until its over and I understand we were a beneficiary of this last year but I dont care. I want it to be over and get back to the way it used to be.

The mountain west for example will not be anywhere near as strong when this ends.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

72 max.

I would make the final number each year flexible: Put a computer ratings consensus top 64 teams in--then add all autobid league champs outside of that first 64. The number of those would vary each year.

 

[Tiger Paul Lives]

They should have a moving cut line like golf. 😬

 

[Fredact]

NCAA football is lower, obviously. But I would argue that no sport holds such an insane range of teams (talent and resources-wise) as NCAA basketball either. There are at least 150 of them that are total trash on a national relevancy level - to a point where they would be playing in a different league in most sports. In would be like lumping on AA and AAA teams with MLB teams.

The FA Cup in British soccer has a wider range.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I'm fine with the 68, or maybe 72. But I'd rather they wouldn't put in two teams from one bid leagues. Maybe Indiana State is out now thanks to NC State and company but they should never be allowed in if they lose their conference and get blown out in their two major conference games.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The more you expand a tournament, the more saturated ALL the games become. Yea its a great story for the fans / teams involved in just getting into the tourney, but the largest chunk of fans watch the sweet 16 weekend and beyond.

No amount of additional teams / games will change that.

Every time that every league has expanded its playoffs, it has resulted in better TV numbers. People arent going to boycott the Round of 64 because Kansas State played Ohio State a few days before in Dayton.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Contract the tournament back to 64, if anything

I agree. More than 64 and it's starts to become what we are seeing this year...a bunch of undeserving teams getting in.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

They should have a moving cut line like golf. 😬

And that line should be one spot below where Pitt is!

So, for example, in the second year of the Stallings Error, something like 250 teams make the tournament.

 

[UPitt '89]

This is why I prefer professional sports to college sports.

All the criteria for making the post-season are laid out in advance, and there is no "opinion" or human element to how teams get into the post-season.

No NFL team will ever be in a position to claim they got "screwed" by some committee because their star QB got hurt at the end of the season.

No NBA team will ever get punished because they didn't run up the score enough in their wins, or because their offensive efficiency is below average.

Whatever the criteria is, the NCAA needs to put it on paper and then let computers select the field. And make the formulas for the criteria transparent, so everyone knows EXACTLY where they stand (unlike the opaque NET in which nobody knows the formula).

Get rid of the human element altogether.

 

[MorningCoffee13]

This is why I prefer professional sports to college sports.

All the criteria for making the post-season are laid out in advance, and there is no "opinion" or human element to how teams get into the post-season.

No NFL team will ever be in a position to claim they got "screwed" by some committee because their star QB got hurt at the end of the season.

No NBA team will ever get punished because they didn't run up the score enough in their wins, or because their offensive efficiency is below average.

Whatever the criteria is, the NCAA needs to put it on paper and then let computers select the field. And make the formulas for the criteria transparent, so everyone knows EXACTLY where they stand (unlike the opaque NET in which nobody knows the formula).

Get rid of the human element altogether.

Sure and in professional sports, all but baseball, has almost half of the teams making the playoffs. So sure let’s make the NCAAs 50% of all teams and the top half of each conference moves on.

 

[UPitt '89]

Sure and in professional sports, all but baseball, has almost half of the teams making the playoffs. So sure let’s make the NCAAs 50% of all teams and the top half of each conference moves on.

At least that's an objective criteria and every team would know exactly what they needed to do in order to get into the post-season.

How about this? champs of every conference get auto-bids ....... and computers with pre-defined criteria that is transparent and known to all select the rest of the field.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I would make the final number each year flexible: Put a computer ratings consensus top 64 teams in--then add all autobid league champs outside of that first 64. The number of those would vary each year.

As an experiment--Just did the math for this year based on KenPom rankings. You would have 19 autobids ranked outside of the top 64 to put into a play in round. A total of 83 teams in the tourney.

Slight correction--20 autobids ranked outside both the top 64 and Top 68.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

At least that's an objective criteria and every team would know exactly what they needed to do in order to get into the post-season.

How about this? champs of every conference get auto-bids ....... and computers with pre-defined criteria that is transparent and known to all select the rest of the field.

How about this. The Power 4 stage their own tournament with a pre-determined number of spots per league and keep 75% of the money. The other 25% of money goes to whichever of the other 28 conferences want to join them and they each get 1 bid plus maybe like 8 wild-card bids (think Big East/MWC/WCC). This would be the "CFP model."