France. Holy hell and prayers....

[ricflair4LIFE]

Perhaps in your wacked out version of morality, but not in most people's version. I think most people would happily agree with the notion that if the ends is great enough then you should be willing to use greater means to achieve it. To use the example that's been floating around lately, if you had the chance to kill baby Hitler but you know it would also mean killing baby Hitler's innocent baby cousin it is absolutely moral to kill the both of them. In fact I'd go so far as to say that if you knew what the consequences were going to be (and of course there is no way to know that at the time) that it would be immoral NOT to kill baby Hitler and his baby cousin to save millions of lives.

There was a wise philosopher who once posited "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one." I can't remember who that smart dude was, but he got it right.

Baby Hitler's cousin would never know what hit him.

 

[ricflair4LIFE]

I am with you but we have to go ALL IN as Americans. No pussyfooting around. First off a mandatory across the board increase in taxes to fund the war. Maybe 40% or 50% of income. We need to be willing to pay. Also, lets think about what we can give up and start rationing things now that will effect the war effort if we piggishly use those materials. Gas rationing. Food rationing. Whatever it takes. Maybe even shutdown of the internet so that secrets aren't discovered accidentally by the terrorists.

Have to bring back the draft because lots of Americans are going to die doing this and so we need people to man the front lines. Close down college sports and professional sports and immediately put those guys in the military because they certainly are the most fit for duty. Make sure we allow drafting of folks probably up to 60 or more. Those of us who are older can be assigned to more administrative duties so that the young folks can go out there and fight the good fight.

ARE YOU ALL IN ON THIS??? SHOW YOUR PATRIOTISM AND SAY YES!!!!

I'm in. But I'll have to sit behind a desk. Bad knee.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I read somewhere recently that 40% of illegals immigrants in the U.S. are not those who crossed the Mexican border. They are those who came legally on student or other visas and stayed after without permission--a good way for terrorists to enter, no doubt.

There is also, apparently, a very high percentage (close to1/3?) of our Federal criminal prison population who came here illegally.

Given the Paris attacks it is insanity for our government to take in the planned 10,000 Syrian refugees the administration agreed to. The vast majority of these are young men of military age without families. We need to reverse course and only except refugee families. The risk that even a few of these young men are "Trojan Horse" terrorists (like one of the Paris terrorists was) is too great a risk to take for our country's safety.

Our entire immigration system and laws and enforcement require an overhaul to make it very very very difficult to come here and stay here illegally by any pathway (wall on border is looking like a better idea all the time) while compassionately making some reasonable accommodation for those families already here for a long time and beginning to assimilate. Abolishing the automatic conferring of citizenship on anyone born here who is not born to a legal resident (green card or citizen) should also be part of the larger effort. Also, we should eliminate or seriously discourage "sanctuary cities and states" by cutting off all Federal aid and revenues to all such entities that don't fully cooperate with the INS and other Federal law enforcement agencies.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Doubt they have any interest in the Chinese. A large part of the reason we are held in such high esteem by these crackpots is our unwavering support of Israel.
That and some leftover animosity over the Crusades, which I don't believe the Chinese participated in seems to fuel some of this poison against the West. Of course it is BS and twisted, but it is there.

Wow, don't know where you're going with this "logic", but a few facts may help....
"Carpet Bombing" of Germany and the fire bombing of Dresden in particular were mostly in retaliation for the German Blitz on London, and of course the V1 and V2 rocket attacks that indiscriminately targeted civilians. Prior to this, the bombing was 'strategic bombing' aimed primarily at industrial targets. Of course there was collateral damage/casualties, there always is in war. Attempts were made to minimize it.
With regard to "hating" Jews and bombing, it is a fact that the Allies, and Churchill in particular, knew about the death camps and what was happening there fairly early in the war. They chose to NOT bomb the camps, or the rail lines that serviced them for various reasons, including not tipping the Germans that we had the enigma code broken.
With regard to hating Christians, I don't recall anyone saying we should let these killers alone. The point is, "Carpet Bombing" regions and indiscriminately killing all Muslims, including women and children will do nothing to protect Christians! I can't think of anything more anti-Christian than something like this! Would you kill the Kurds? They are Muslims, and the one of the only ones willing to pony up and take the lead in actually killing these bad guys. Are they evil? We want the Turks to help, should we bomb them? Why don't we strafe the long lines of immigrant Muslims fleeing the radicals to protect their families? Hey, can't be too safe....there may be an Isis fighter mixed into the tens of thousands in line!
I would turn this around on you and ask Why do you hate all Muslims? It is the second largest religion in the world, or close to it, and not all of them, not even a majority, in fact only a very small minority are engaged in terrorism. What about American Muslims, hate them as well? Muhammad Ali? Kareem Abdul Jabbar? Talib Zanna? Should we off them just in case?
Do you want a new Inquisition? Sign up to Christianity or die?
We need to align with these people, and all people of good will and work in tandem to eradicate these outlaws and criminals, not take actions to create more of them! We need to be smarter than them, not crueler! Justice is moral, indiscriminate hatred, discrimination and murder isn't.

I didn't suggest carpet bombing anyone today, so you must have mistakenly responded to the wrong person. I suggested nothing of the sort, so I guess we can largely dismiss your red herrings and straw men.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

So you would not have carpet bombed Germany and let more Allied soldiers and Jews die? Why do you hate Jews?

Come on Kiwi, that is not fair. I agree with your sentiment, but to turn it into a xenophobic slant is not fair. My god, why do people always do this to try and win an argument.

Simply put, "carpet bombing" or tactics like this to protect the free world from that kind of depravity and evil is pretty much defense enough. People who don't get that or want to cling to "one innocent live" doesn't justify this are the same who think reason and negotiations can bring peace to zealot fanatics.

Think about this, you want to reason and negotiate with people, lots of people, many people who not just threaten but have strapped bombs onto themselves to act as a vehicle of terror and death to blow themselves up.

I think we are on the same side, but those who don't get it aren't "anti Jewish" but misguided. Let's debate fairly please.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I kind of think we are doing exactly what you're saying. This attack was in France, not the U.S. It has been a long time since we have had an attack by one of these groups succeed in this country. Is it luck? I doubt it.....
I think the French were sitting this one out, for the most part. They weren't too helpful when we were slugging it out in the Middle East, and at times were kind of obstructionist to our efforts. I imagine that has changed.
Step by step the world has to show these assclowns we won't sit by and let them have their way. Just like Jihadi John, in time they'll all get it, in very unglamorous fashion.
You beat guerilla war with guerilla war. Conventional tactics don't work when fighting groups without borders, uniforms, national identity, and the like.

And on this note, how did we fight organized crime? We enacted RICOH laws and things like that, this is what I mean by unconventional. Not only physical battles with ISIS and Al Queda, but also battled of propaganda, shutting down their lines of communication and financial resources, seizing assets and bank accounts.

One other thing.....follow the money. I really think we need to examine our "friends" the Saudi's, because at the end of the day, they believe is the fundamentalist Islam way of life in regards to women, worship, human rights, so you have to truly believe what side of this battle against the West they really are on. I think it is time to start making them a bit uncomfortable and putting some heat on these guys, because I think a lot of money and behind the scenes support for these groups emanates from Saudi Arabia.

 

[FreeportPanther]

And on this note, how did we fight organized crime? We enacted RICOH laws and things like that, this is what I mean by unconventional. Not only physical battles with ISIS and Al Queda, but also battled of propaganda, shutting down their lines of communication and financial resources, seizing assets and bank accounts.

One other thing.....follow the money. I really think we need to examine our "friends" the Saudi's, because at the end of the day, they believe is the fundamentalist Islam way of life in regards to women, worship, human rights, so you have to truly believe what side of this battle against the West they really are on. I think it is time to start making them a bit uncomfortable and putting some heat on these guys, because I think a lot of money and behind the scenes support for these groups emanates from Saudi Arabia.

Pretty much agree, but regarding the Saudi's, cheap oil trumps everything, it seems. Plus the Bush family would have to relinquish their unofficial family status with the Saudi royals.