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FSU fans blaming the officiating

We all know how it goes with bad calls on both sides and consistent inconsistency, etc., but FSU fans do have at least some complaint about what looked to be clean blocks.
 
Never underestimate the ability of a Leonard Hamilton team to underperform what is expected. Perhaps if they don't shoot 9% from 3 they would have won. Perhaps, if Pitt didn't attack the rim on offense FSU wouldn't have fouled so often. Stupid fans.
 
I agree a little with their complaints but its not like they lost by a few points. They really should have dominated play with their bigs and won going away as the 11th ranked team. They lost the game when they stuck with shooting (and missing) 3s against a much smaller team. Can't blame the refs for their loss.
 
My issue this year is there are just to many whistles. Every game I watch is a whistle fest. It worked in Pitt’s favor last night because they shot free throws well. But there are too many whistles for questionable fouls for me. I want them to let them play.
 
We all know how it goes with bad calls on both sides and consistent inconsistency, etc., but FSU fans do have at least some complaint about what looked to be clean blocks.
All one of them. There was one block that was called that looked clean. Lots of iffy calls both ways so a bad call on a blocked shot didn't lead to a double digit loss. I'd say 2-22 from behind the arc had more to do with it and you can't blame the refs for that.
 
All one of them. There was one block that was called that looked clean. Lots of iffy calls both ways so a bad call on a blocked shot didn't lead to a double digit loss. I'd say 2-22 from behind the arc had more to do with it and you can't blame the refs for that.

I agree, but I thought more than one block was in question (I probably need to watch the tape again). I also think FSU and other ACC teams are conditioned to ACC refs calling "Duke charges." Pitt's penetrating guards, to their credit and likely coaching, have learned to sidestep what used to be easy charge calls.
 
I agree, but I thought more than one block was in question (I probably need to watch the tape again). I also think FSU and other ACC teams are conditioned to ACC refs calling "Duke charges." Pitt's penetrating guards, to their credit and likely coaching, have learned to sidestep what used to be easy charge calls.

When there is that much attacking the hoop going on no crew of officials will do much, if any, better. It is the nature of the game and reflects the inherent difficulty in officiating hoops.
 
Both of Pitt's bigs were in foul trouble within the first few minutes of the game. That FSU didn't take advantage of that is what their fans should be complaining about.

That's exactly what I was going to say. They have a big advantage inside, ours bigs got early fouls, and they still continue to chuck up three pointers and outside shots. Meanwhile, Pitt continued to drive to the basket aggressively and get to the rim. THAT'S the problem. Not the refs.
 
If it was the officiating I never try to deny it, I just thank the officials for cheating for us and move on.

But blaming the refs in a 13 point basketball loss is kind of a stretch.
 
I agree, but I thought more than one block was in question (I probably need to watch the tape again). I also think FSU and other ACC teams are conditioned to ACC refs calling "Duke charges." Pitt's penetrating guards, to their credit and likely coaching, have learned to sidestep what used to be easy charge calls.

Point of clarification. There is no such thing as an "ACC ref," per se. All refs are independent contractors who work for many conferences. Most work games within 3 or more conferences -- some as many as 6 or 7.

There is a list of about 50-60 refs with whom the ACC will utilize to do game. However, someone like Bert Smith, who did Monday night's Pitt game, did the St. Louis/Fordham game last night.
 
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My issue this year is there are just to many whistles. Every game I watch is a whistle fest. It worked in Pitt’s favor last night because they shot free throws well. But there are too many whistles for questionable fouls for me. I want them to let them play.

The one game that really wasn’t was the WVU game, where konate was able to body slam our players.
 
Who cares the games over, PITT won, it's in the books as a W for PITT, and a L for FSU.

More whiners!

I'm waiting for the day when the game is over, people bitch and moan, file a challenge, so not to hurt anyone's
feelings the officials watch the game on replay, re-score, and determine a winner. Well the player intended
to shoot a 3 pointer, sure his foot was on the line but that wasn't his intent give him a 3. Or the officials will award or take pts away for fouls that weren't or were called and shouldn't have been.
It might take days to finalize a contest.

Sorta like elections go these days. Who ever thought it would take weeks to settle elections?
Just wait this is on the way!


"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!
 
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My issue this year is there are just to many whistles. Every game I watch is a whistle fest. It worked in Pitt’s favor last night because they shot free throws well. But there are too many whistles for questionable fouls for me. I want them to let them play.

There are too many whistles on the perimeter. If a player gets bumped and it doesn’t stop him or the ball isn’t lost or turned over, play on!

I’m not talking about the WVU constant smacking and holding, but a little contact that doesn’t disrupt the play needs to stop being called.
 
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I'm waiting for the day when the game is over, people bitch and moan, file a challenge, so not to hurt anyone's
feelings the officials watch the game on replay, re-score, and determine a winner.

This country and it's people are so screwed up that before you know it, THIS^^^ will be reality, it all started with the BS known as "replay" eventually it will escalate that far, after the game is over, there will be a mandatory review of the entire game frame by frame to make sure we "get it right" before giving the official results.
 
Point of clarification. There is no such thing as an "ACC ref," per se. All refs are independent contractors who work for many conferences. Most work games within 3 or more conferences -- some as many as 6 or 7.

There is a list of about 50-60 refs with whom the ACC will utilize to do game. However, someone like Bert Smith, who did Monday night's Pitt game, did the St. Louis/Fordham game last night.

Good point. I recall those discussions over the past few years. I guess I should have used "refs in ACC games" instead of "ACC refs."
 
Good point. I recall those discussions over the past few years. I guess I should have used "refs in ACC games" instead of "ACC refs."
My point isn’t to quibble over semantics. Instead, it’s to quell an ongoing, and inaccurate, narrative that games are called in any particular way in any particular conference.
 
There is a list of about 50-60 refs with whom the ACC will utilize to do game. However, someone like Bert Smith, who did Monday night's Pitt game, did the St. Louis/Fordham game last night.


Speaking of only conference games, Smith has done 3 ACC games this season so far. He's also done 3 Big 12 games, 2 A10 games and 1 CUSA game. In the non-conference he did our games against the Hoopies and VMI.

Lee Cassell (one of the other refs on Monday) has done 3 ACC games, 2 Big 12 games. 2 A10 games, 2 CUSA games, 1 American game and 1 CAA game. He did our non-cons with Niagara, St. Louis and VMI.

Clarence Armstrong (the third) has done 2 ACC games, 3 American, 2 Big East, 1 MAAC, 1 NEC, 1 MEAC and 1 CAA. He didn't do any of our non-cons.
 
My issue this year is there are just to many whistles. Every game I watch is a whistle fest. It worked in Pitt’s favor last night because they shot free throws well. But there are too many whistles for questionable fouls for me. I want them to let them play.
Exactly. No flow with so many fouls and the game drags. Go to 4 quarters and reset the fouls every 10 minutes so we don’t have to watch teams shoot in the bonus on hand checks from the 12 minute mark on.
 
Exactly. No flow with so many fouls and the game drags. Go to 4 quarters and reset the fouls every 10 minutes so we don’t have to watch teams shoot in the bonus on hand checks from the 12 minute mark on.

Of course---we could always revert the rules to the early to the early 1960s before we went from quarters to halves and before there was a 3 point line. ;);):eek::eek::

Every single foul was a shooting foul (floor fouls were all 1 shot). Every tie up actually involved jumping the ball between the two players involved. Jump balls in those cases were at the nearest FT line unless the tie up was near mid-court. Another quirk involved allowing the offensive player to score a bucket when he committed a charge on the play--if he released the shot before he made contact with the defender. After such a score you marched to the other end for the defender to shoot his FT. I still remember a well known official of that day, Steve Honzo, calling jump balls on fouls when he wasn't sure if it was a charge or a block rather than swallowing his whistle or guessing. He would blow the whistle and then announce: "I didn't see it. We will jump it." (No TV monitors tor reviewing plays.) Hoops has certainly come a long way since those days.
 
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Of course---we could always revert the rules to the early to the early 1960s before we went from quarters to halves and before there was a 3 point line. ;);):eek::eek::

Every single foul was a shooting foul (floor fouls were all 1 shot). Every tie up actually involved jumping the ball between the two players involved. Jump balls in those cases were at the nearest FT line unless the tie up was near mid-court. Another quirk involved allowing the offensive player to score a bucket when he committed a charge on the play--if he released the shot before he made contact with the defender. After such a score you marched to the other end for the defender to shoot his FT. I still remember a well known official of that day, Steve Honzo, calling jump balls on fouls when he wasn't sure if it was a charge or a block rather than swallowing his whistle or guessing. He would blow the whistle and then announce: "I didn't see it. We will jump it." (No TV monitors tor reviewing plays.) Hoops has certainly come a long way since those days.
When I 1st played basketball as a kid it was like that, I think they added the 1 and 1 foul when I was in 7th grade. But I do prefer the actual jump ball over the alternating possession to be honest. When did that come in? 80s? I remember actual jump balls on a tie up all the way through my high school years (late 70s) I think?
 
The one game that really wasn’t was the WVU game, where konate was able to body slam our players.

Wait, I thought the announcer said he had mastered the art of “verticality”
Of course---we could always revert the rules to the early to the early 1960s before we went from quarters to halves and before there was a 3 point line. ;);):eek::eek::

Every single foul was a shooting foul (floor fouls were all 1 shot). Every tie up actually involved jumping the ball between the two players involved. Jump balls in those cases were at the nearest FT line unless the tie up was near mid-court. Another quirk involved allowing the offensive player to score a bucket when he committed a charge on the play--if he released the shot before he made contact with the defender. After such a score you marched to the other end for the defender to shoot his FT. I still remember a well known official of that day, Steve Honzo, calling jump balls on fouls when he wasn't sure if it was a charge or a block rather than swallowing his whistle or guessing. He would blow the whistle and then announce: "I didn't see it. We will jump it." (No TV monitors tor reviewing plays.) Hoops has certainly come a long way since those days.

Some of those jump balls were pretty comical when there was a small PG and a Center matched up.
 
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Some of those jump balls were pretty comical when there was a small PG and a Center matched up.
But I think actually jumping makes it more of a competition than the randomness of alternate possession.
 
It was interesting to see on Twitter that some FSU fans were blaming the poor scheduling (as Duke and FSU had played Saturday) and then both lost on Monday to "lesser" teams. I pointed out to one that Pitt traveled to NCST on Saturday, lost, but didn't seem to be "tired" when the ball was tipped on Monday. I'm not sure officiating or being tired had anything to do with the outcome. I would think that a coach should be able to figure out in the first 8 minutes of a game "Hey, Pitt is really trying to take us off the dribble and get to the line." Pitt imposed their game on FSU, and they didn't adjust to it well at all.
 
But I think actually jumping makes it more of a competition than the randomness of alternate possession.

I go back and forth on it, but I think it became an issue of the refs not being able to toss the ball high enough and accurately. I used to get angry when I was playing and the ref would toss the ball a little off center, or not high enough, or too high. With the players’ getting taller which makes the toss even more difficult, I think the alternate possession is probably a little more fair overall.
 
Of course---we could always revert the rules to the early to the early 1960s before we went from quarters to halves and before there was a 3 point line. ;);):eek::eek::

Every single foul was a shooting foul (floor fouls were all 1 shot). Every tie up actually involved jumping the ball between the two players involved. Jump balls in those cases were at the nearest FT line unless the tie up was near mid-court. Another quirk involved allowing the offensive player to score a bucket when he committed a charge on the play--if he released the shot before he made contact with the defender. After such a score you marched to the other end for the defender to shoot his FT. I still remember a well known official of that day, Steve Honzo, calling jump balls on fouls when he wasn't sure if it was a charge or a block rather than swallowing his whistle or guessing. He would blow the whistle and then announce: "I didn't see it. We will jump it." (No TV monitors tor reviewing plays.) Hoops has certainly come a long way since those days.

Then I imagine you remember Eddie Plank, Earl Ceh, Dutch Shample and Gene Steratore, SR, too.

Those were the days! :D
 
I go back and forth on it, but I think it became an issue of the refs not being able to toss the ball high enough and accurately. I used to get angry when I was playing and the ref would toss the ball a little off center, or not high enough, or too high. With the players’ getting taller which makes the toss even more difficult, I think the alternate possession is probably a little more fair overall.
It doesn't have to be fair, it's the luck of the draw. Is it fair that Terrell Brown had to guard that 7-4 guy, and I think Pitt actually won that opening tip.
 
It doesn't have to be fair, it's the luck of the draw


Just because you prefer ridiculous levels of randomness doesn't mean that's supposed to be the goal. The goal is that play is supposed to be fair, not the luck of the draw. The fact that you prefer luck over skill just makes you, well, odd.
 
Just because you prefer ridiculous levels of randomness doesn't mean that's supposed to be the goal. The goal is that play is supposed to be fair, not the luck of the draw. The fact that you prefer luck over skill just makes you, well, odd.
Actually jumping makes the game based on an athletic action, rather than just which way an arrow is pointing, that's more random, which means you want the ODD way of doing things. If you're down 1 with 10 seconds left and there's a tie up, and the arrow is against you, you likely lose, but if there's an actual jump ball, the game suddenly become MORE interesting, not less. Ridiculous randomness is an arrow, which way that stupid arrow is pointing decides the game sometimes, takes it out of the players hands, modern people are IDIOTS "worried" that the refs toss of the ball might not be perfect or if a short guy has to jump with a tall guy, so what? It's a sport, better that it be decided by a player's physical action than a rule book.
 
Actually jumping makes the game based on an athletic action, rather than just which way an arrow is pointing, that's more random, which means you want the ODD way of doing things. If you're down 1 with 10 seconds left and there's a tie up, and the arrow is against you, you likely lose, but if there's an actual jump ball, the game suddenly become MORE interesting, not less. Ridiculous randomness is an arrow, which way that stupid arrow is pointing decides the game sometimes, takes it out of the players hands, modern people are IDIOTS "worried" that the refs toss of the ball might not be perfect or if a short guy has to jump with a tall guy, so what? It's a sport, better that it be decided by a player's physical action than a rule book.


It's obvious that you never paid attention to how bad the refs had gotten at throwing the ball up for jump balls. That was every bit as random as an arrow. Watch the opening tips of some games, and I mean really watch them, and see how bad it is. Our center who is six inches shorter than the Florida State center didn't win the opening tip of the game last Monday because of some sort of athletic action, he won it because the ref threw the ball up towards him and away from the Florida State player, and he won it because he tipped the ball while it was still on it's way up (which is against the rules but never gets called, again, because the refs are so bad at throwing the ball up).
 
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I go back and forth on it, but I think it became an issue of the refs not being able to toss the ball high enough and accurately. I used to get angry when I was playing and the ref would toss the ball a little off center, or not high enough, or too high. With the players’ getting taller which makes the toss even more difficult, I think the alternate possession is probably a little more fair overall.

Or maybe a machine to launch the ball precisely? :(:(:(
 
Those same refs bailed fsu out of several turnovers & bad shots as well. The calls were iffy or plain bad on both sides.
 
It's obvious that you never paid attention to how bad the refs had gotten at throwing the ball up for jump balls. That was every bit as random as an arrow. Watch the opening tips of some games, and I mean really watch them, and see how bad it is. Our center who is six inches shorter than the Florida State center didn't win the opening tip of the game last Monday because of some sort of athletic action, he won it because the ref threw the ball up towards him and away from the Florida State player, and he won it because he tipped the ball while it was still on it's way up (which is against the rules but never gets called, again, because the refs are so bad at throwing the ball up).
That's ok by me, it's better than just an arrow IMO. Just like I hate replay, I don't mind officiating errors here and there, that's life.
 
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