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Gold Cup (Sat through July 16)

recruitsreadtheseboards said:
So for this admitted casual soccer fan. I don't follow the sport, but do engage with the international events involving US teams. I don't know many of these guys. Who are they? B team? If so, why does the US send a B team? The US always seems to lack a finisher, is Ferrera for real? Because as a hockey guy, sometimes the ability to finish (score goals) is not so common.

But my god, CONCAF is pathetic with all of these tiny island nations.
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Basically the US decided to play their A team against Mexico and Canada's A teams in the Nations League tournament in Vegas a few weeks ago. The US won those two games in dominating fashion.

They sent a much lesser team to this tournament, basically just keeping their starting goalie and a center back, neither of which has played much in the past year for their club teams.

The reason to send a B team here is that 1. these guys already play a ton of games , 2. Many of them need to establish themselves at their European club teams and they can't do that if they're in the US playing lesser teams and 3. Some of the guys in this B team are young and need experience that they'll get here.

As far as strikers go, Folarin Balogun just became eligible recently to play for the US. He's at Arsenal but was on loan in France this year where he was one of the better goal scorers in a good league. He played in the Nations League. Ricardo Pepi also played in the Nations League. He looked good in the past but after being transferred to a German team at the age of 19 really struggled. He's since reestablished himself in the Dutch league.

Strikers in this tournament are Jesus Ferreira and Brandon Vasquez, two young MLS players who will hopefully go to Europe soon to continue their development.

Mexico fired their coach after that tournament (his only loss in 7 games as coach) and they're under pressure to perform and win. So they sent their A team to this tournament too. Canada (which has high end talent at a few positions but has much less depth) sent a lesser team to this tournament and they're struggling.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
6 friendlies over a year period for a made-up-trophy. That's what it is. It means as much as Pitt winning the River City Rivalry trophy in September.
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They aren't "friendlies" it's a tournament over a year, it's as valid as any other trophy, AGAIN, as you've been repeatedly told, YOU ARE NOBODY and you don't decide what's valid and what isn't. By the way, the World Series, Super Bowl and Stanley Cup ARE ALL MADE UP TROPHIES.
 
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Lord Stanley just declared, ''Let there be a Cup'', and he saw it was good and there was a Cup :)
 
Pitt79 said:
So what do you think? That you are more knowledgeable than these announcers some of whom played for the USMNT? Or they are just spinning it for the TV viewers and to promote the USSF? And I think the last Gold Cup, didn't the whole A Team play so they would have been playing these kinds of teams? Personally, I think in the 2025 Gold Cup they should play the A Team to get a tournament experience the year before the WC in 2026, even if it's vs. the little guys.
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You have to compare Ferreira to other #9’s before him. We’ve been discussing our lack of a #9 for years on this board. It’s no secret that we haven’t had anyone tearing it up at that position.

Praising Ferreira for scoring goals against crap teams when other “A” team players haven’t, is like praising a WR for catching more passes than a RB. It’s apples and oranges.

Maybe Jesus goes to Europe and develops further. Maybe there will be a day that he pumps in goals against teams like the Netherlands instead of getting yanked at halftime. We are all rooting for that. But the only thing you and the guys on tv should be comparing him to is Jozy, Zardes, Sargent, Dike and guys who preceded him at the position he plays. Comparing him to Pulisic, Weah, Donovan, Adams, McKennie, etc is apples to oranges.
 
brdst11 said:
Basically the US decided to play their A team against Mexico and Canada's A teams in the Nations League tournament in Vegas a few weeks ago. The US won those two games in dominating fashion.

They sent a much lesser team to this tournament, basically just keeping their starting goalie and a center back, neither of which has played much in the past year for their club teams.

The reason to send a B team here is that 1. these guys already play a ton of games , 2. Many of them need to establish themselves at their European club teams and they can't do that if they're in the US playing lesser teams and 3. Some of the guys in this B team are young and need experience that they'll get here.

As far as strikers go, Folarin Balogun just became eligible recently to play for the US. He's at Arsenal but was on loan in France this year where he was one of the better goal scorers in a good league. He played in the Nations League. Ricardo Pepi also played in the Nations League. He looked good in the past but after being transferred to a German team at the age of 19 really struggled. He's since reestablished himself in the Dutch league.

Strikers in this tournament are Jesus Ferreira and Brandon Vasquez, two young MLS players who will hopefully go to Europe soon to continue their development.

Mexico fired their coach after that tournament (his only loss in 7 games as coach) and they're under pressure to perform and win. So they sent their A team to this tournament too. Canada (which has high end talent at a few positions but has much less depth) sent a lesser team to this tournament and they're struggling.
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Canada's B team is bad. Like shockingly bad. They have nothing to fall back on.
 
Allan McMurray said:
Canada's B team is bad. Like shockingly bad. They have nothing to fall back on.
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You'd think Canada would play their A Team, I would if I was them, this was a window to win a Gold Cup, they've won only one, for them it's a chance at a trophy, as much as some fans scoff at CONCACAF trophies, at least USA has a lot of them, Canada doesn't even have that.
 
Fk_Pitt said:
You have to compare Ferreira to other #9’s before him. We’ve been discussing our lack of a #9 for years on this board. It’s no secret that we haven’t had anyone tearing it up at that position.

Praising Ferreira for scoring goals against crap teams when other “A” team players haven’t, is like praising a WR for catching more passes than a RB. It’s apples and oranges.

Maybe Jesus goes to Europe and develops further. Maybe there will be a day that he pumps in goals against teams like the Netherlands instead of getting yanked at halftime. We are all rooting for that. But the only thing you and the guys on tv should be comparing him to is Jozy, Zardes, Sargent, Dike and guys who preceded him at the position he plays. Comparing him to Pulisic, Weah, Donovan, Adams, McKennie, etc is apples to oranges.
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I get your point, most of those guys play a different position.
 
Pitt79 said:
I get your point, most of those guys play a different position.
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Glad you do. I want to be clear. I’m rooting for him not against him. He deserves credit for a performance like last night. The first goal was class. The first touch and quick release was superb. And even though the 3rd goal was a penalty, he took it well. I just think the praise last night was forced and over the top.
 
Fk_Pitt said:
Glad you do. I want to be clear. I’m rooting for him not against him. He deserves credit for a performance like last night. The first goal was class. The first touch and quick release was superb. And even though the 3rd goal was a penalty, he took it well. I just think the praise last night was forced and over the top.
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Yeah look at that other guy, Zendejas, the guy that chose USA over Mexico, he's basically flubbed every good chance he's had. What do you think of him?
 
Pitt79 said:
Yeah look at that other guy, Zendejas, the guy that chose USA over Mexico, he's basically flubbed every good chance he's had. What do you think of him?
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Currently the alure of a kid picking the US over Mexico isn't what it used to be. Just my opinion. Mexico isn't anything wild, special or crazy like in the past.
 
Pitt79 said:
You'd think Canada would play their A Team, I would if I was them, this was a window to win a Gold Cup, they've won only one, for them it's a chance at a trophy, as much as some fans scoff at CONCACAF trophies, at least USA has a lot of them, Canada doesn't even have that.
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Yep, I'm not sure what goes into team selection for the Gold Cup...Not sure if players are attached to clubs in the off season as well. Maybe the big guns wanted to be training with their club teams, gearing up for the season.
 
Pitt79 said:
Yeah look at that other guy, Zendejas, the guy that chose USA over Mexico, he's basically flubbed every good chance he's had. What do you think of him?
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I root for him but I’m not crazy about him. He’s so little.

Speaking of size, it’s why I like Vazquez and would rather see him over Jesus.
 
Allan McMurray said:
Yep, I'm not sure what goes into team selection for the Gold Cup...Not sure if players are attached to clubs in the off season as well. Maybe the big guns wanted to be training with their club teams, gearing up for the season.
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It’s simple. Not many Mexican players are fighting for jobs at Euro clubs. The Americans and Canadians on good clubs in Europe need every advantage they can get, and that includes rest first and foremost (these guys have had NO time off in a year) and then to get to camp with their clubs because guys they are competing against for minutes will already be there.
 
Pitt79 said:
They aren't "friendlies" it's a tournament over a year, it's as valid as any other trophy, AGAIN, as you've been repeatedly told, YOU ARE NOBODY and you don't decide what's valid and what isn't. By the way, the World Series, Super Bowl and Stanley Cup ARE ALL MADE UP TROPHIES.
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I do get to decide. They are glorified friendlies. OK, how bout this: they are like bowl games: glorified exhibition games for a trophy
 
Fk_Pitt said:
It’s simple. Not many Mexican players are fighting for jobs at Euro clubs. The Americans and Canadians on good clubs in Europe need every advantage they can get, and that includes rest first and foremost (these guys have had NO time off in a year) and then to get to camp with their clubs because guys they are competing against for minutes will already be there.
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One player who was supposed to get at least a look in camp this summer was Gaga Slonina. So it would have been nice for him not to be at this Gold Cup. Currently chelsea doesn’t have a backup. It would have been nice for him to get to camp with the big club and get some looks. Instead he’s rotting on the USA bench and not even getting capped. I’m sure Chelsea will be bringing in a reserve keeper at this point.

However one other thing. Chelsea has bought a French team in League 1 to act as a “AAA” affiliate”. Not sure what their goalkeeping situation is, but maybe Chelsea can loan Gaga out to them.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
I do get to decide. They are glorified friendlies. OK, how bout this: they are like bowl games: glorified exhibition games for a trophy
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And the Gold Cup is like a tree falling in the woods. No one cares. How many watched on Fox last night? A dozen? As far as I’m concerned, they are all friendlies.
 
Fk_Pitt said:
And the Gold Cup is like a tree falling in the woods. No one cares. How many watched on Fox last night? A dozen? As far as I’m concerned, they are all friendlies.
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At least its one of those summer continental tournaments. But CONCACAF sucks so nobody cares, I would agree with that which is why we need to buy Greenland and get into UEFA.
 
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Fk_Pitt said:
It’s simple. Not many Mexican players are fighting for jobs at Euro clubs. The Americans and Canadians on good clubs in Europe need every advantage they can get, and that includes rest first and foremost (these guys have had NO time off in a year) and then to get to camp with their clubs because guys they are competing against for minutes will already be there.
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This is the worst Mexico group of players that I can personally remember. Reminds me of the USMNT 2018 missed WC squad, probably worse than that. Like, I would think our B/C team can beat them in the Gold Cup final. I mean they are missing Herrera, Corona, and Lozano but would that be at all surprising?
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
I do get to decide. They are glorified friendlies. OK, how bout this: they are like bowl games: glorified exhibition games for a trophy
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No, It's regional championship, no worse than winning the ACC on a global scale.
 
Same with the Gold Cup, on the worldwide scale it's like winning the ACC Tournament or something like that. Winning a USL Championship would be huge for Pittsburgh, fun for their fans, that's all that matters, it's the attitude that it's nothing unless it's the highest level is BS, The Riverhounds winning the USL would be the biggest Pittsburgh soccer title ever, and if not for the CONCACAF the USA would have ZERO championships, so yeah it is big and it doesn't matter how many people are interested in watching it or how many people "care".
 
brdst11 said:
Four of us at my house....
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That's how I see it, if I care to watch, just me, THEN IT MATTERS.

I mean if your attitude is you don't care unless the US is winning or even seriously contending for the World Cup Championship, then you'll probably never have a chance to care.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
I do get to decide. They are glorified friendlies. OK, how bout this: they are like bowl games: glorified exhibition games for a trophy
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The funny thing is, based on how they decided which CONCACAF teams will qualify for the Copa America it's pretty clear which one the people running the federation, meaning the people running the teams, think is the more important tournament.

Oddly enough, it's not the one that you think.
 
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Sean Miller Fan said:
He hit the MLS point too hard but I think he was really trying to say how people would say Zardes only scored against bad teams. So when you add that to also scoring vs bad teams in MLS, it makes people critics. With Ferriera, the good news is that he's only 22 and he at least scores vs the bad teams. So hopefully he can improve and make a move to Europe. But, right now, he still has to be way below Balogun, who scored goals in a top league.
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First of all, if you are going to play against crappy teams it is better to play well against them and score goals then not. So he's got that going for him, which is nice. And like you say, he is young enough that barring an injury or some other odd circumstances he should get better. Those are good thing.

But exactly the reason that people compare him to Zardes is because he's doing exactly what Zardes did. Score a lot against crappy teams (although Zardes never scored at this level against them), disappear against the good ones. Let's not forget the last time he played a competitive game against a good team he was completely invisible for the first half, to the point where the coach who is just about his biggest supporter had to remove him from the game.

Which is exactly the sort of thing that Zardes did. I'm not going back and counting them again, but I have before and in the 20-plus games that Zardes played for the US against good teams, meaning like top 30 or so ranked teams at the time the game was played, Zardes scored a grand total of one goal. And that was in either the first or second of those games that he played, a friendly against, iirc, the Netherlands. And then 20-plus games of nothing.

Let's just all hope that isn't the kind of international career track that Ferreira ends up on.
 
Pitt79 said:
Same with the Gold Cup, on the worldwide scale it's like winning the ACC Tournament or something like that. Winning a USL Championship would be huge for Pittsburgh, fun for their fans, that's all that matters, it's the attitude that it's nothing unless it's the highest level is BS, The Riverhounds winning the USL would be the biggest Pittsburgh soccer title ever, and if not for the CONCACAF the USA would have ZERO championships, so yeah it is big and it doesn't matter how many people are interested in watching it or how many people "care".
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Gold Cup = ACC Championship

Nations League = winning some Thanksgiving basketball tournament
 
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Fk_Pitt said:
Gold Cup= sun bowl
Nations league =peach bowl
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Using college football

Nations League = winning a ho-hum regular season game

Gold Cup = winning a mediocre bowl game

I see the Nations League as the "regular season" with a made-up trophy. It would be like beating Cincy for that stupid trophy
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Using college football

Nations League = winning a ho-hum regular season game

Gold Cup = winning a mediocre bowl game

I see the Nations League as the "regular season" with a made-up trophy. It would be like beating Cincy for that stupid trophy
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And as I said before, YOU might see it that way, but CONCACAF clearly sees it the other way around. They are clearly putting more emphasis on the Nations League, as is evidenced by the rosters that the four countries who made the Nations League semifinals used for the Nations League games versus the rosters they picked for the Gold Cup.

Fk's analogy is much more in line with the way the confederation and the countries think. Your analogy is much more in line with the way that you, and you alone, think.
 
You guys deride these tournaments because you have the delusion that USA will contend for the World Cup soon, that's about as likely as Pitt winning the CFP, so like Pitt you should just be happy that at least we win the CONCACAF Nations League or the Gold Cup (ACC Title/Sun Bowl) because it's very unlikely they will do anything beyond that.
 
Pitt79 said:
You guys deride these tournaments because you have the delusion that USA will contend for the World Cup soon, that's about as likely as Pitt winning the CFP, so like Pitt you should just be happy that at least we win the CONCACAF Nations League or the Gold Cup (ACC Title/Sun Bowl) because it's very unlikely they will do anything beyond that.
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Actually I think most people deride these tournaments because the level of competition is so bad. I mean the US was just in a four team group with countries ranked 62, 101 and 139 in the world rankings. Mexico was in a group with 52 (a guest team), 78 and 87. A third group has 42, 63, 70 and non-ranked. Canada's group includes 123, 179 and non-ranked, and yet it's somehow still a realistic possibility that they won't advance.

If you don't think that level of competition is worthy of derision it's just because you aren't paying attention.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
Actually I think most people deride these tournaments because the level of competition is so bad. I mean the US was just in a four team group with countries ranked 62, 101 and 139 in the world rankings. Mexico was in a group with 52 (a guest team), 78 and 87. A third group has 42, 63, 70 and non-ranked. Canada's group includes 123, 179 and non-ranked, and yet it's somehow still a realistic possibility that they won't advance.

If you don't think that level of competition is worthy of derision it's just because you aren't paying attention.
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I agree, but it's where we are, so if you're in the NFC South, better to win it than not.
 
Pitt79 said:
I agree, but it's where we are, so if you're in the NFC South, better to win it than not.
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For the record, I’m enjoying the gold cup, just not as mich as the nations league.

If one can’t understand the rationale why we sent out a B/C team for the Gold Cup and appreciate watching our younger guys develop, then I don’t know what to say. And I’ll enjoy a match up between our B- team vs Mexico’s A- team. Especially during this time of year when nothing else is happening.

And the Final is set for Sunday night in a couple weeks when I’ll be on vacation with my wife, my kids, my Dad and my kid’s significant others whom all were major college players. I know we will have a condo full of people enjoying the USMNT…as long as Ferreira, Roldan and Long don’t start. Hahahaha!
 
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Fk_Pitt said:
…as long as Ferreira, Roldan and Long don’t start. Hahahaha!
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Assuming it's a decent opponent like Mexico or Canada, you should want Ferriera to start to see if he can score against a non-island with a population of more than 50,000 :)
 
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Pitt79 said:
Assuming it's a decent opponent like Mexico or Canada, you should want Ferriera to start to see if he can score against a non-island with a population of more than 50,000 :)
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This is true. Good point.
 
Looks like Canada potentially, or more likely Guadalupe or Guatemala next a Sunday in Cincy at 7:30 in the quarterfinals.
 
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