Hypothetical: Walt Harris

[Las Panteras]

While I think the board is likely divided 50/50 on whether WH was a solid coach, I will pose this for your thoughts.

Given that CFB is all about scoring points, and the drought our offense has been in,

Where would we be today as a program if Walt was hired instead of Narduzzi?

I am referring to the Walt Harris when he came to Pitt, not the WH who would have been in his 60's and taking the job.

The guy recruited NFL talent at all the skill positions. He certainly got the most out of QBs.

What say you? Would Pitt be in better shape with 6 years of the Walt Harris that came here in the 90's?

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

interesting question. Walt with more resources (i.e. what Narduzzi has) would have been interesting. But he was the opposite of Narduzzi, totally ignored defense while focusing on offense entirely. Narduzzi doesn't pay any attention to the offense. He didn't say a single word to Yellen during the game on Saturday.

But I'm not sure the West Coast offense would fly now. It is all about the RPO. And Walt was a highly average recruiter. Losing Pozluzny & Lee when PSU appeared to be down for the count was pretty bad.

But it is the same debate.....who is the pretties fat girl at the prom? Narduzzi used to be my "king of the averages" since Sherrill, that title now firmly belongs to Walt.

 

[PittMiamiRivalry]

While I think the board is likely divided 50/50 on whether WH was a solid coach, I will pose this for your thoughts.

Given that CFB is all about scoring points, and the drought our offense has been in,

Where would we be today as a program if Walt was hired instead of Narduzzi?

I am referring to the Walt Harris when he came to Pitt, not the WH who would have been in his 60's and taking the job.

The guy recruited NFL talent at all the skill positions. He certainly got the most out of QBs.

What say you? Would Pitt be in better shape with 6 years of the Walt Harris that came here in the 90's?

Walt should never have been fired. Pitt recovered from the firing because Wannstedt posted 9-4, 10-3, and 8-5 seasons. But it's pretty much been all downhill since Walt and Wanny.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

no way 50% of pitt fans think Walt was a bad coach. the guy took over a program that johnny majors decimated and was on the brink of dropping out of D1. Walt was a very good coach and exactly what we needed to save the program..

 

[pierre93]

Walt was way ahead of his time with the strike force offense. His agent messed things up for him here.

 

[TD_6082]

It's all about recruiting. Lane Kiffin's offense is really fun to watch. Ole Miss is 1-4.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

When Pitt started 1-5 in 2001, one of the primary criticisms was that Walt decided to install and run a no huddle offense. That isn't a hypothetical, it is a fact:

Welcome

archive.triblive.com

Keep in mind that was way, way before no huddle was a thing.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

With that in mind, Walt hasn't been Pitt's coach for 15+ years. Are clemson fans revisiting the tommy bowden era? Are alabama fans talking about the Dennis franchione era?

 

[Black Panther]

no way 50% of pitt fans think Walt was a bad coach. the guy took over a program that johnny majors decimated and was on the brink of dropping out of D1. Walt was a very good coach and exactly what we needed to save the program..

And took them to the Liberty bow inl the first year and beat Miami and wvu.

 

[pierre93]

Walt's offense was fun to watch. He recruited players that fit his system. Grimm, Fitzgerald, T. Murphy, Slade, all say hi! Never understood why some posters trashed him on here.

 

[pierre93]

With that in mind, Walt hasn't been Pitt's coach for 15+ years. Are clemson fans revisiting the tommy bowden era? Are alabama fans talking about the Dennis franchione era?

We understand this but just trying to give an example of how coaching up players and developing them can help out in today's college football game. Walt knew what worked to succeed, especially at Pitt. He did have his faults, but everyone does. I'm so fed up with this smashmouth football BS talk with PN. Borbely and Salem needed to go 2 years ago. PN has nobody to blame but himself for this mess.

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Wasn't RichFraud running a no-huddle spread as Tulane's OC with Shaun King and helped get him drafted in the late 90s? Mumme at Kentucky with Tim Couch?

Walt wasn't ahead of his time and his decision to go no huddle is just another in a long list of coaching blunders by a Pitt coach, as much as I liked him.

His soft O-lines and inability to run the ball was deflating, just like good opponents sacking Pitt QBs 8-9 times in big games.

 

[Somerset Panther]

When Pitt started 1-5 in 2001, one of the primary criticisms was that Walt decided to install and run a no huddle offense. That isn't a hypothetical, it is a fact:

Welcome

archive.triblive.com

Keep in mind that was way, way before no huddle was a thing.

My son and I were talking about that on the way home from game Saturday. Changing to spread was a brain fart. Yet he righted the ship, went back to west coast O, ran off five straight wins, trounced Va Tech Who was a top 15 team at the time then kicked the crap out of NC St and Phil Rivers in bowl game. Defense caught fire. We think this years team would not beat Walt’s 2001 team. I thought we were on our way. Decent 02 and 03 Seasons. Backed into BCS bowl In 04. His agent F’d it up for him and it took Wanny four seasons to be a winner. An argument could be made that Walt has been Pitt’s best coach since 1997 especially with the state of the program he took over. His o lines weren’t great, but they weren’t 2020 bad. Barlow and Miree were good backs and had decent running games. What his teams did was score points. I can’t tell you what he averaged, but I seem to recall many good scoring games, some we won and some we lost.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Walt Harris > Pat Narduzzi

 

[pbrad]

To Walt, line play and D was secondary. It was about the skill positions.

 

[happjack]

If the Toledo game was on tv a lot of you would have a different opinion of Walt, that was the most frustrating and embarrassing game I've seen in any sport.

 

[Pittx9]

If the Toledo game was on tv a lot of you would have a different opinion of Walt, that was the most frustrating and embarrassing game I've seen in any sport.

I listened to it on the radio.... from the upper deck at PNC Park. I’m guessing you were there? I still like Walt, but am I remembering this correctly?

I believe up 31-28 late in the game and with our defense getting torched all night he elected to punt on 4th and 1. Toledo proceeded to march down the field for the winning TD like it was nothing.

 

[razzaba]

That Virginia Tech game in 2001 was awesome. I went to that game as a high school senior on my “recruiting” trip (don’t know what else to call it - Pitt gave out free tickets to anyone visiting campus for tours, meeting with admissions, etc) and remember distinctly thinking that we’d probably be getting blown out by half time and not want to be there for the whole game. It was quite a surprise.

 

[revampedpanthers]

While I think the board is likely divided 50/50 on whether WH was a solid coach, I will pose this for your thoughts.

Given that CFB is all about scoring points, and the drought our offense has been in,

Where would we be today as a program if Walt was hired instead of Narduzzi?

I am referring to the Walt Harris when he came to Pitt, not the WH who would have been in his 60's and taking the job.

The guy recruited NFL talent at all the skill positions. He certainly got the most out of QBs.

What say you? Would Pitt be in better shape with 6 years of the Walt Harris that came here in the 90's?

Walt was a pretty good coach. He was a excellent OC. He was really good at finding and developing qb and wr. He was pretty average at overall recruiting. And they never had a really great ol or defense, they had a couple years where they were above average at those spots. If walt of 2000 could be hired today pitt would likely settle in at 7 to 8 wins every year. Maybe they would occasionally push for 9 or 10 and occasionally be closer to 5 or 6. I do think the program has taken a step back from where walt left it and when he took over it was a dumpster fire.

 

[pitt90seven]

And took them to the Liberty bow inl the first year and beat Miami and wvu.

and lost to temple.

wlat is #4 in all time wins. i don't know one person who doesn't love him. but he had flaws and was schizo, like all of our HC's for the past 35 years.

 

[happjack]

I listened to it on the radio.... from the upper deck at PNC Park. I’m guessing you were there? I still like Walt, but am I remembering this correctly?

I believe up 31-28 late in the game and with our defense getting torched all night he elected to punt on 4th and 1. Toledo proceeded to march down the field for the winning TD like it was nothing.

The D wasn't getting torched, the DB's were playing 15 yards off the Toledo receivers and Brad Gradowski threw 7 yard passes all night long. I think Not My Fault Walt's excuse was they didn't want to get beat on the long bomb, hey at least he didn't blame a kicker for "flinching".

 

[pitt90seven]

The D wasn't getting torched, the DB's were playing 15 yards off the Toledo receivers and Brad Gradowski threw 7 yard passes all night long. I think Not My Fault Walt's excuse was they didn't want to get beat on the long bomb, hey at least he didn't blame a kicker for "flinching".

it turns out, they were NOT rhoades blocked.

i suppose you could pick your poison: dinked and dunked under wlat/paul or give u 70 yard td's under pat/bates. i suppose the end result is the same.

at least wlat's offense was fun to watch.

 

[Pitt79]

interesting question. Walt with more resources (i.e. what Narduzzi has) would have been interesting. But he was the opposite of Narduzzi, totally ignored defense while focusing on offense entirely. Narduzzi doesn't pay any attention to the offense. He didn't say a single word to Yellen during the game on Saturday.

But I'm not sure the West Coast offense would fly now. It is all about the RPO. And Walt was a highly average recruiter. Losing Pozluzny & Lee when PSU appeared to be down for the count was pretty bad.

But it is the same debate.....who is the pretties fat girl at the prom? Narduzzi used to be my "king of the averages" since Sherrill, that title now firmly belongs to Walt.

I'd like an offense first coach, that is all about what high scoring pass first, hurry up offense is now. I never wanted Walt gone! I regretted dropping him for Wanny, dumping Walt bothered me way more than dumping Wanny. of course I prefer to play an up tempo college style, pass first, not a pro style.

 

[Pitt79]

With that in mind, Walt hasn't been Pitt's coach for 15+ years. Are clemson fans revisiting the tommy bowden era? Are alabama fans talking about the Dennis franchione era?

No, but they don't suck as bad as Pitt SUCKS.

 

[Pitt79]

Walt's offense was fun to watch. He recruited players that fit his system. Grimm, Fitzgerald, T. Murphy, Slade, all say hi! Never understood why some posters trashed him on here.

A lot of it is Yinzers who masturbate over ''pounding the rock''! LOL, I remember, probably 2003 vs. Syracuse we where up maybe 28-14 and people in the stands where cussing Walt out for passing the ball, even though it had been working all day.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

A lot of it is Yinzers who masturbate over ''pounding the rock''! LOL, I remember, probably 2003 vs. Syracuse we where up maybe 28-14 and people in the stands where cussing Walt out for passing the ball, even though it had been working all day.

wait...you were in the stands? 🤔

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I know this........6th year of Narduzzi right? Watching the Rams play last night and Aaron Donald, I got to thinking. It used to be, when you turned on these games there was always multiple players from Pitt in the game. And I tried to think of alot of Pitt players in the NFL and honestly, the number has gone down, the number of impact players have gone down and the ones that are in the league right now were guys not recruited by Narduzzi. So, have we really upgrades talent?

 

[bubba31]

The OP is dead on. The game is all about scoring lots of points. I get so aggravated when Pitt wins the toss and elects to defer. Eff that. Get your hands on the ball as often as possible.

One more thing.

Pitt point totals from 2019

Vs Virginia 14

Vs Ohio 20

Vs PSU 10

VS UCF 35

Vs Delaware 17

Vs Duke 30

VS Cuse 27

Vs Miami 12 (4 Fg's)

Vs Ga Tech 20

Vs UNC 34 (OT)

Vs VA Tech 0

Vs BC 19


20 points or less in 8 of 12 games

let that sink in for a moment.

This NFL mentality has gone on way too long.

 

[Pittx9]

The D wasn't getting torched, the DB's were playing 15 yards off the Toledo receivers and Brad Gradowski threw 7 yard passes all night long. I think Not My Fault Walt's excuse was they didn't want to get beat on the long bomb, hey at least he didn't blame a kicker for "flinching".

Well technically yeah, not torched. Destroyed I should’ve said lol, gradkowski and Moore put up some crazy numbers that night.

 

[pierre93]

Well technically yeah, not torched. Destroyed I should’ve said lol, gradkowski and Moore put up some crazy numbers that night.

That was just a weird Saturday night in Toledo. After the game we went back to the hotel where a wedding was taking place. The wedding party were riding bicycles around inside the hotel due to massive alcohol consumption. Trying to make a bad night into something good I helped myself to their beverages and gave them some $$ and wished the very happy couple good luck.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I know this........6th year of Narduzzi right? Watching the Rams play last night and Aaron Donald, I got to thinking. It used to be, when you turned on these games there was always multiple players from Pitt in the game. And I tried to think of alot of Pitt players in the NFL and honestly, the number has gone down, the number of impact players have gone down and the ones that are in the league right now were guys not recruited by Narduzzi. So, have we really upgrades talent?

well, this would be his 1st full recruiting class that would be in the league. Many still here like Weaver, Camp, Hamlin, Jones, Pine. Some flamed out or were passed by on depth chart, Pugh, MacVitte, Coleman, Moss (which is normal at any school). Some were solid college players but not at the NFL caliber like Watts, French (again, normal for any school).

So let's see what this class does in the coming draft before coming to a conclusion on this one. If it turns out most don't stick around the league, then maybe start drawing some conclusions.

 

[Pitt79]

wait...you were in the stands? 🤔

Yeah! My daughter was only 2, she didn't start playing soccer for 6 more years!

 

[Pittx9]

That was just a weird Saturday night in Toledo. After the game we went back to the hotel where a wedding was taking place. The wedding party were riding bicycles around inside the hotel due to massive alcohol consumption. Trying to make a bad night into something good I helped myself to their beverages and gave them some $$ and wished the very happy couple good luck.

Win or lose, at least there’s usually a good story to tell.

 

[Las Panteras]

The OP is dead on. The game is all about scoring lots of points. I get so aggravated when Pitt wins the toss and elects to defer. Eff that. Get your hands on the ball as often as possible.

One more thing.

Pitt point totals from 2019

Vs Virginia 14

Vs Ohio 20

Vs PSU 10

VS UCF 35

Vs Delaware 17

Vs Duke 30

VS Cuse 27

Vs Miami 12 (4 Fg's)

Vs Ga Tech 20

Vs UNC 34 (OT)

Vs VA Tech 0

Vs BC 19


20 points or less in 8 of 12 games

let that sink in for a moment.

This NFL mentality has gone on way too long.

Proof this has been a dumpster fire for long enough.

Its past time.....

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

The OP is dead on. The game is all about scoring lots of points. I get so aggravated when Pitt wins the toss and elects to defer. Eff that. Get your hands on the ball as often as possible.

One more thing.

Pitt point totals from 2019

Vs Virginia 14

Vs Ohio 20

Vs PSU 10

VS UCF 35

Vs Delaware 17

Vs Duke 30

VS Cuse 27

Vs Miami 12 (4 Fg's)

Vs Ga Tech 20

Vs UNC 34 (OT)

Vs VA Tech 0

Vs BC 19


20 points or less in 8 of 12 games

let that sink in for a moment.

This NFL mentality has gone on way too long.

wow, interesting, I wouldn't call it NFL mentality since he has never really coached there. I guess more old-school Big 10 mentality. Again another warning sign in his last game at MSU and that supposed legendary D was lit up by Baylor. Prompted him to come down from the booth to the field for the 2nd half to try and get them motivated.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Thread is all over the place but I think Narduzzi's defense was hot because it could adjust to both two back "traditional" Big Ten offenses and single back/ spread to run offenses without checking out of quarters coverage or base personnel. It was (is) good at stopping both styles of running offenses which could help them beat teams like Michigan under multiple UM coaches. You could have 8 or 9 in the box but still match up against 4 vertical threats on the LOS.

Where it always struggled was against the play action when the safeties came down for 9 in the box. The safeties had a lot of pressure on them to do one of three things depending on how a play developed. That in and of itself was probably fine but then the RPO was invented and now Narduzzi's safeties are truly asked to do more than they can handle. It's pretty rough to be asked to adjust on the fly to these RPO pop passes.

On offense I don't think Narduzzi has an NFL ("protect your $200 million QB") or college mentality. He hires coordinators who do whatever. It's only a problem to the extent they don't recruit good enough, which has become a bigger problem every year after Chryst and Chaney guys graduated?

 

[jtownknowitall]

Who was in his fifth season at the helm on September 8, 2001 when Pitt suffered its most humiliating loss of the 21st century?

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Who was in his fifth season at the helm on September 8, 2001 when Pitt suffered its most humiliating loss of the 21st century?

I would say losing to YSU or Akron at Home was a lot worse. S. FLA went 8-3 that year.

 

[Pittx9]

I would say losing to YSU or Akron at Home was a lot worse. S. FLA went 8-3 that year.

Clearly USF had some decent players that year, but of their 8 wins we were probably the only somewhat competent team. They literally beat absolutely nobody.

Still gonna rank that worse than the Akron loss, even though that was a really bad MAC team. But some people need to stop pretending there has ever been anything worse than the YSU loss... there hasn’t.

It’s not like we let them hang around and they got lucky. We were trailing by 18 points in the 4th quarter, we were never even close to winning that game. I don’t care if it was the head coach’s first time seeing a football field and all 22 starters were out, almost the entire second half we trailed by 10 or more points to a mediocre FCS team.

Obviously embarrassing losses are pretty common for Pitt, but that is so easily the worst ever. Personally I’d say YSU worst ever, USF in ‘01 #2, and there’s a lot to choose from after that but probably Akron in ‘14 #3.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Clearly USF had some decent players that year, but of their 8 wins we were probably the only somewhat competent team. They literally beat absolutely nobody.

Still gonna rank that worse than the Akron loss, even though that was a really bad MAC team. But some people need to stop pretending there has ever been anything worse than the YSU loss... there hasn’t.

It’s not like we let them hang around and they got lucky. We were trailing by 18 points in the 4th quarter, we were never even close to winning that game. I don’t care if it was the head coach’s first time seeing a football field and all 22 starters were out, almost the entire second half we trailed by 10 or more points to a mediocre FCS team.

Obviously embarrassing losses are pretty common for Pitt, but that is so easily the worst ever. Personally I’d say YSU worst ever, USF in ‘01 #2, and there’s a lot to choose from after that but probably Akron in ‘14 #3.

They beat UConn and Houston - Not exactly automatic wins for us.