I watched Dixon's TCU Team on TV

[Gep Dawg]

There is no way his current TCU team is better than or more talented than any of the teams he had at Pitt through 2011...let alone that awesome 2009 team. The 2009 team was so special and I agree should have been a final four team and probably was the best team to match up against UNC that year. But the Sweet 16 teams, the regular season champions and the 2008 BET championship team were all better than what he has now. All were highly ranked teams that were a hell of a lot better talent wise than most people here realize or give credit too.

 

[PittPanther44]

They beat St. Bonaventure in a Florida tournament championship game last week.
St. Bonaventure beat Maryland, in the first round while TCU beat New Mexico State.
Beating Maryland tells you that the Bonnies are good this year, so the TCU win had
some merit to it.
Anyway, I was amazed at the talent Jamie has recruited there. He has three bigs who
ALL can play, a very good pg, and other effective role players. Even with Blair, LeVance,
and Young, this TCU team has more overall talent. As far as how these players actually
perform...it's typical Dixon; tough defense, rugged rebounding, and working the ball for
a good shot. They're not Kentucky or Duke, but IMO they're damn good, and Jamie from my observation, hasn't lost a thing as far his coaching is concerned.
Not to open an old can of worms, but watching this I couldn't help but wonder why this
didn't occur at Pitt the last few years.

Absurd to say they have “more talent than young,fields,Blair team”

That team not only was a #1 seed but had a second #1 seed team sitting on the BENCH, maturing in a couple years.

Man you guys short change where this program was.

 

[Pittfan85]

Absurd to say they have “more talent than young,fields,Blair team”

That team not only was a #1 seed but had a second #1 seed team sitting on the BENCH, maturing in a couple years.

Man you guys short change where this program was.

Attitudes like his are ultimately one of the reasons Dixon left.

 

[FourPanthers]

He forgot how to coach at Pitt unfortunately and was showing no signs of an uptick. I fought people here for a couple years in his defense. I didn't want another Wanny situation. But it was probably time for him to go. They problem is--you better hit a home run if you let him leave. And they didn't.

So if Huggins has a few years where he doesn't win the Big 12 or NC (oh wait, he hasn't yet) WV should cut ties in "hopes" of bringing someone in that will? Sounds silly when you're talking about another school but Pitt fans have this need to implode and start over every so many years if we don't win a national championship. INSANE!

 

[FourPanthers]

Attitudes like his are ultimately one of the reasons Dixon left.

Correct!!!

 

[Fk_Pitt]

So if Huggins has a few years where he doesn't win the Big 12 or NC (oh wait, he hasn't yet) WV should cut ties in "hopes" of bringing someone in that will? Sounds silly when you're talking about another school but Pitt fans have this need to implode and start over every so many years if we don't win a national championship. INSANE!

I think it's a combination of things. Jamie Dixon "essentially" never met or exceeded expectations in the NCAA tourney. Yeah he beat a 3 seed as a 6 seed over a decade ago, and he won an 8-9 game or two. But other than that he always underachieved. When I was defending Dixon back when against the naysayers on this board, it was because I figured at some point he would break through and do something of significance in the NCAA. But then when his recruiting tanks at a time when the recruiting should have taken a step to the next level, he has 5-13 seasons, NIT seasons, and seasons where we squeak into the tourney by a game or two. Last season would have been no different and he'd probably have this team as a 4-5 win ACC team. So his last 5-6 years would have been the complete opposite of his first 9-10 years. It was probably time to go. He needed a fresh start and so did Pitt...provided Pitt had a contingency plan that was better. Which it seemingly didn't. Or they couldn't execute.

 

[Pittfan85]

I think it's a combination of things. Jamie Dixon "essentially" never met or exceeded expectations in the NCAA tourney. Yeah he beat a 3 seed as a 6 seed over a decade ago, and he won an 8-9 game or two. But other than that he always underachieved. When I was defending Dixon back when against the naysayers on this board, it was because I figured at some point he would break through and do something of significance in the NCAA. But then when his recruiting tanks at a time when the recruiting should have taken a step to the next level, he has 5-13 seasons, NIT seasons, and seasons where we squeak into the tourney by a game or two. Last season would have been no different and he'd probably have this team as a 4-5 win ACC team. So his last 5-6 years would have been the complete opposite of his first 9-10 years. It was probably time to go. He needed a fresh start and so did Pitt...provided Pitt had a contingency plan that was better. Which it seemingly didn't. Or they couldn't execute.

First off, when you are a top 4 seed constantly, you can’t do much other than underachieve unless you expect the team to make the Elite 8 or better every year.

Second, his last 5 years that everyone complains about so much.....well, they would look pretty good right now, right?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

First off, when you are a top 4 seed constantly, you can’t do much other than underachieve unless you expect the team to make the Elite 8 or better every year.

Second, his last 5 years that everyone complains about so much.....well, they would look pretty good right now, right?

If you are a 4 seed, you should reach the sweet 16. If you're a 2 seed, you should reach the elite 8. If you're a 1 seed, you should reach the final four. By doing those things, you MEET expectations. Certainly there are going to be times that you fall short of expectations, but you would think there would be times that we would have exceeded expectations. And that essentially never happened.

And as far as right now, it's a result of Jamie's last few years. That's undeniable. Maybe if Jamie was here, we wouldn't be THIS bad, but we would be bad regardless. Whats the difference in winning 1 ACC game with Stallings vs winning 4 with Jamie? You're competing for nothing either way.

 

[Pittfan85]

If you are a 4 seed, you should reach the sweet 16. If you're a 2 seed, you should reach the elite 8. If you're a 1 seed, you should reach the final four. By doing those things, you MEET expectations. Certainly there are going to be times that you fall short of expectations, but you would think there would be times that we would have exceeded expectations. And that essentially never happened.

And as far as right now, it's a result of Jamie's last few years. That's undeniable. Maybe if Jamie was here, we wouldn't be THIS bad, but we would be bad regardless. Whats the difference in winning 1 ACC game with Stallings vs winning 4 with Jamie? You're competing for nothing either way.

Yeah, I get Dixon never really exceeded expectations...but I always thought judging him on what, his 20 or so NCAA games was extremely silly.

To your second paragraph, having a good coach that doesn’t blow everything up would have made a big difference. I don’t think the team this year would have been any good, but I would have had faith Dixon could build a team. I don’t have any faith in stallings.

 

[Ski11585]

If you are a 4 seed, you should reach the sweet 16. If you're a 2 seed, you should reach the elite 8. If you're a 1 seed, you should reach the final four. By doing those things, you MEET expectations. Certainly there are going to be times that you fall short of expectations, but you would think there would be times that we would have exceeded expectations. And that essentially never happened.

And as far as right now, it's a result of Jamie's last few years. That's undeniable. Maybe if Jamie was here, we wouldn't be THIS bad, but we would be bad regardless. Whats the difference in winning 1 ACC game with Stallings vs winning 4 with Jamie? You're competing for nothing either way.

And yet, years and years of tournament data show us that what a one seed or two seed “should” do doesn’t always happen.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Yeah, I get Dixon never really exceeded expectations...but I always thought judging him on what, his 20 or so NCAA games was extremely silly.

To your second paragraph, having a good coach that doesn’t blow everything up would have made a big difference. I don’t think the team this year would have been any good, but I would have had faith Dixon could build a team. I don’t have any faith in stallings.

I think Jamie would have a better team here today. It still wouldn't be a good team. His recruiting resorted to reaches, short term fixes and hole plugging in the spring signing period. That was related to the really bad class balance that he was normally really good at. Something went awry. It's a big mystery.

 

[Pittfan85]

And yet, years and years of tournament data show us that what a one seed or two seed “should” do doesn’t always happen.

I mean, in the end, I think pitt didn’t play to their seed 4 times. The butler game, nova game, Bradley, and the year they lost to Xavier.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I think Jamie would have a better team here today. It still wouldn't be a good team. His recruiting resorted to reaches, short term fixes and hole plugging in the spring signing period. That was related to the really bad class balance that he was normally really good at. Something went awry. It's a big mystery.

Which differs how from now?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Which differs how from now?

It doesn't.

 

[Pittx9]

That wasn't the best team in Pitt history. 74 & 87 were better. The 2009 team came closest to the F4. I was lucky enough to see them all.....the 74 team had the best player, the 87 the best talent, the 09 the best coach and attitude.

Pretty fair assessment. One thing that's not debatable is 74 had the best player. I'm just going by deepest tourney run makes you the most successful, therefore the best. Some have differing opinions but I'll never get on board with people trying to claim the 76 Steelers or 93 Penguins were the best in the team's histories.

 

[Pittx9]

They have three bigs who can ALL play. A very good pg, and other players. Basically
I'm referring to the top 7 players. Blair was a monster, but their bigs would be a
challenge for him. I give Young the nod over their others, and the pg is a wash
between LaVance and their pg. The other two positions...definitely TCU. Off the bench, definitely TCU. BTW, they're presently ranked and undefeated. They haven't gotten
into the meat of their schedule and their tougher games yet, but it would have been
a hell of a game if it coulda been played.
The other thing I noticed, this TCU team is as well coached by Dixon, and yet it
does things unlike what I was used to when he was here. For instance, much
more up tempo, yet the same hard nosed Defense, and the same strong rebounding.
With all that said, I loved that '09 Pitt team...this was just my take as I watched
TCU the other night..

I don't disagree with a whole lot there, but I can't see anyone giving Blair trouble. He routinely dominated a guy that was 7-3 while in college.

 

[Chescat]

I don't disagree with a whole lot there, but I can't see anyone giving Blair trouble. He routinely dominated a guy that was 7-3 while in college.

Here's what is different about my scenario. Both of these teams, Pitt's great 2009
team with Blair, Young, and Levance were coached by Jamie, and this year's TCU team
that I've alluded to is also coached by Jamie. Blair dominated a lot of
bigs in his day, but this TCU team can run three of em in there, plus match or be be better
in just about every other position. IMO, Given that scenario neither team should have
a coaching edge, and it should then get down to overall talent. However, this TCU team, coached by the same coach also hits the boards, plays great D, grinds it out, but also plays up tempo unlike his old Pitt teams.
I loved that 2009 team. Glad I started such an interesting thread
that pissed off some posters here. LOL...it was just an opinion...nothing more.

 

[Pittx9]

Here's what is different about my scenario. Both of these teams, Pitt's great 2009
team with Blair, Young, and Levance were coached by Jamie, and this year's TCU team
that I've alluded to is also coached by Jamie. Blair dominated a lot of
bigs in his day, but this TCU team can run three of em in there, plus match or be be better
in just about every other position. IMO, Given that scenario neither team should have
a coaching edge, and it should then get down to overall talent. However, this TCU team, coached by the same coach also hits the boards, plays great D, grinds it out, but also plays up tempo unlike his old Pitt teams.
I loved that 2009 team. Glad I started such an interesting thread
that pissed off some posters here. LOL...it was just an opinion...nothing more.

Yeah idk why people would get so pissed lol. Obviously pitt was never a very up tempo style team, but that team had the talent and they were more up tempo than most pitt teams. What's amazing to me is TCU, a team I never thought Dixon would even return to because their program was so bad is suddenly recruiting great, while the late Dixon years pitt recruited pretty poorly. I think assistant coaches are pretty vital here. I loved BK and I even thought he might be a decent head coach, but all this plus what he's currently doing are not making a good case for him as a recruiter.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Yeah idk why people would get so pissed lol. Obviously pitt was never a very up tempo style team, but that team had the talent and they were more up tempo than most pitt teams. What's amazing to me is TCU, a team I never thought Dixon would even return to because their program was so bad is suddenly recruiting great, while the late Dixon years pitt recruited pretty poorly. I think assistant coaches are pretty vital here. I loved BK and I even thought he might be a decent head coach, but all this plus what he's currently doing are not making a good case for him as a recruiter.

He’s Slice but worse.

Recruiting rep mostly a function of being chummy with media types.
No disrespect intended, but Matt S. Drank that koolaid so much he rooted against the head coach for holding him back.
Knight is where he should be- a second assistant, still whiffing on recruits

 

[DiehardPanther]

The big question is what was holding Dixon back at Pitt the last few years. He is doing very well at TCU, so I am not buying that it was him.

 

[mbrannagan]

Why didn't he have better assistants here? I was all over him the last 5 years for the quality of assistants.

Well, he has a much bigger budget for it now, that could be one reason. TCU committed some real resources around him.

 

[freddietee511]

He has a very talented TCU team. Lot of athletes . Length , defense , 3 four stars coming in next year , one redshirting this year , and a New Zealand big who looks extremely skilled coming in next year . He will make a final four there . Much more talent . Great coach. We are in a crappy spot because of his classes but you can’t expect any coach who leaves to leave behind an elite roster lol

 

[HailToPitt1985]

The big question is what was holding Dixon back at Pitt the last few years. He is doing very well at TCU, so I am not buying that it was him.

It wasn't him. It was the Pitt administration and certain boosters holding him back. If he were given the resources at Pitt that he has now at TCU, he would have been to a Final 4. He can flat out coach.

 

[lunzhegu]

Dixon never lost it here. Pitt had reduced success but was still making the tournament. Second-tier programs like Pitt are not great every year, but every year new players would be coming in. We lucked into a great coach who planned on being with Pitt until he retired. Now that he is gone, Pitt will not see such success again. It's hard to come back. When a great coach leaves, many programs never recover. They sink to third and fourth tier, and when they get a good coach, they are stepping stones and cannot hold him.

 

[Pittfan85]

Here is the thing that bothers me. There are a lot of people that are saying “well, it was time for Jamie to move in, but pitt just made the wrong hire.”

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. There were threads on these boards every other week talking about how pitt should go after miller, brad Stephens, Greg Marshall, etc. You wanted Dixon to move on because you had deluded yourselves into believing pitt could attract guys like that.

The fact is, there were many such as Paco and souf who said that wasn’t happening, and were consistently shouted down. Well guess what, they were right. The best hope was a lottery ticket, and we didn’t even do that.

Basically, saying you wanted Dixon gone or that if he left you didn’t care meant you thought pitt could easily upgrade. You screamed for nearly 13 years they could upgrade, and in the end you were dead wrong.

 

[NTOP]

The teams they walked into were much different, but pretty close in talent. Pitt probably had the 3 most talented players in Young, Artis, and Cam but TCU was pretty solid across the board and had a true PG and a true center.

So its hard to say but without question Jamie inherited better underclassmen than Stallings did

Jamie landed the PG. And this year's class was much better than Stallings. If the staff at TCU did all that, why can't KS do that? Better conference....real history....bigger gym, etc.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Dixon never lost it here. Pitt had reduced success but was still making the tournament. Second-tier programs like Pitt are not great every year, but every year new players would be coming in.

I think we would be in our current state if JD was here given recent recruiting. I don't think we can be considered a second tier program anymore, can we?

 

[BFo8]

Jamie landed the PG. And this year's class was much better than Stallings. If the staff at TCU did all that, why can't KS do that? Better conference....real history....bigger gym, etc.

Dixon didn’t land Jaylen Fisher. Ryan Miller effectively brought him with him when he came from UNLV.

 

[Pittfan85]

Dixon didn’t land Jaylen Fisher. Ryan Miller effectively brought him with him when he came from UNLV.

Typical. Just like Dejuan Blair and Steve Adams, every recruit Dixon gets isn’t because of him.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Dixon didn’t land Jaylen Fisher. Ryan Miller effectively brought him with him when he came from UNLV.

It’s funny how he gets no credit for top recruits signed on his watch as head coach...

Still.


Silliness.

Wish our turd of a coach could be lucky landing some talent.

 

[BFo8]

Typical. Just like Dejuan Blair and Steve Adams, every recruit Dixon gets isn’t because of him.

He was a commit to UNLV, recruited by Ryan Miller, who was an assistant at UNLV.

When Miller was hired at TCU, Fisher decommitted from UNLV and signed with TCU.

Not that hard to figure out. Wasn’t a dig at Dixon, just the facts.

 

[lunzhegu]

We were second tier during our run under Dixon. We used to have discussions about it. The consensus was that although we were not the among the very top programs, we were in the top fifteen or so. We often had better teams than the top tier programs, and our amazing record against top five ranked teams at the Pete proved that point. That was the time when Bilas made his comment that Pitt is not a team; it's a program. We are not second tier any more. You are certainly right about that.

My points were two. It should have been all right to have some years when we struggled a bit. We were always respectable and we were always in the game. Huggins had some down years but he eventually got, as he said, his kind of players. Those who complained, for example, about losing a close game to Wisconsin, a Final Four team, definitely played a role in the lack of patience the administration showed Dixon. Those who say he recruited poorly are scrambling to counter the evidence of what he is doing now. He has recruited good players and he is winning consistently. It is more likely than not that he would have done the same here.

The second point is the one that is generating so much pain. Where we are now is going to be difficult to change. Look at UMass, for example, which was a national factor under Calipari, but has been irrelevant since he left. When Travis Ford showed the ability to elevate UMass to some modest success and NIT bids, he was gobbled up by a bigger job. When a team like Pitt loses a great coach like Dixon, if we were really a top program, we wouldn't have fallen so far and so fast. Without Dixon, Pitt has no basketball identity, and Pitt is not a destination school. From our current situation, after Stallings is gone in who-knows-how-many years, a coach who has success here is unlikely to stay. I think Dixon would have stayed here for his career, and that is also the opinion of several knowledgeable insiders.

If Dixon made a mistake, it was that he allowed Pitt fans to dream too much of greatness and glory, and they got drunk on those dreams.

Now look at them. There were even people on this board who were afraid that Slippery Rock might give us too tough a game.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Dixon would have stayed at Pitt until he retired if the big mouth boosters and their buddy Barnesy boy hadn't ridden Dixon out of town so aggressively. There is no doubt about that. Now we're stuck with what the big mouths wanted.

 

[Wvu Eers28]

As a Wvu fan who’s team went 1-2 against that 09’ Pitt team (wvu had a good team , went to final 4 next year) I can tell you that TCU is nowhere near as good as that Pitt team. Tcu was a nit team last year, I know they return slot and Dixon is a good coach and they probably will make the tournament this year. But they are not one of the best 3-4 teams in the country like Pitt was in 09’.

 

[CMUandPitt]

Quit crying, lose the knee pads and drink your bottle, right I'm glad he's gone and so are a lot of Pitt fans

You're glad he's gone? Yeah, getting to the tournament really got old after awhile, didn't it? Me personally, I was pining for the return of the Ralph Willard years, when we were an embarrassment. Nothing more fun than that!

 

[Pittfan85]

You're glad he's gone? Yeah, getting to the tournament really got old after awhile, didn't it? Me personally, I was pining for the return of the Ralph Willard years, when we were an embarrassment. Nothing more fun than that!

Welcome back...you need to post more!

 

[Cap pitt]

You're glad he's gone? Yeah, getting to the tournament really got old after awhile, didn't it? Me personally, I was pining for the return of the Ralph Willard years, when we were an embarrassment. Nothing more fun than that!

Dixon was good the first 9 or 10 years, then brought the program to mediocrity

 

[BFo8]

You're glad he's gone? Yeah, getting to the tournament really got old after awhile, didn't it? Me personally, I was pining for the return of the Ralph Willard years, when we were an embarrassment. Nothing more fun than that!

You know upon further reflection Ralph Willard was a pretty good basketball coach, albeit at a lower level.

Had a lot of success at Western Kentucky and Holy Cross, the Big East was just too big a leap for him.

 

[CMUandPitt]

Dixon was good the first 9 or 10 years, then brought the program to mediocrity

The people who pushed Dixon out believed two things:

1. They could find better, because Pitt was an elite destination.
2. They deserved better.

Neither is true, and we're seeing the results.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Dixon was good the first 9 or 10 years, then brought the program to mediocrity

And now we strive for that level of mediocrity in a few more years.