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If you don't know why Pitt is where it is today with football, read this article.

This is the biggest reason why Pitt is so far behind other regional schools (ups, tOSU, Notre Dame) when we used to be toe-to-toe with those programs.

I appreciate everyone's game face for the Nits, but Pitt is going to get pummeled today. Here's the main reason why:

http://pittsburgh.sportswar.com/article/2014/12/22/debunking-the-myths-of-steve-pederson/

That so-called article is so full of half-truths and out-right falsehoods that anyone who really knows Pitt sports won't give it the time of day
 
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Jesus. Should be pinned. You don't want to tear down this statue because forgetting it just only means we are doomed to repeat it over and over again. I lived through alot of the down turn.

The loss of Sherrill was the single worst mistake this University ever made. EVER!!! BUT........they could have remedied it with one simple move. They could have hired Jimmy Johnson as Jackie's replacement. But no, we promoted Foge. Same when Gottfried was fired, we could have (should have) hired Barry Alvarez. Nope. Promoted Hackett. After those mistakes there was no turning back.
 
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That so-called article is so full of half-truths and out-right falsehoods that anyone who really knows Pitt sports won't give it the time of day
I get we don't engage in arms race. Candidly, it's a source of pride to me that Pitt has its priorities in place. Jock Sutherland has been dead a long time. Better to focus on post WW2 era. I'll maintain that Pitt was very late to the game in how to utilize athletic endeavors. Thus, Pitt staffed the department with stiffs. Meanwhile, everyone around them beefed up. It's more difficult playing catch up and Pitt has had leaders who had no vision for athletes and the department. Consequently, when it came time to harvest, the crop was weak. It will take Pitt 15-20 years to catch up fully. That's why Heather was a good hire....she knows what a "department" needs in this era.
My two cents.
Oh....btw....I have a really good feeling about today.
 
This is the biggest reason why Pitt is so far behind other regional schools (ups, tOSU, Notre Dame) when we used to be toe-to-toe with those programs.

I appreciate everyone's game face for the Nits, but Pitt is going to get pummeled today. Here's the main reason why:

http://pittsburgh.sportswar.com/article/2014/12/22/debunking-the-myths-of-steve-pederson/

It's an article with some fact mixed in with many incorrect details and completely wrong timelines and with opinion presented as statements of fact with no supporting evidence, which is ironic, because it purports to debunk "myths." Clearly there was no actual research done with original primary or secondary sources. But then, it is simply a lazy article purposely constructed to support the writer's personal position on something that is never going to happen.
 
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I am not buying that Pitt has whales sitting on the sidelines waiting for the right time to pitch in. I do not believe the money is there to compete with the schools in the deep end of the pool. I think Pitt has small pockets and alligator arms.
 
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This is the biggest reason why Pitt is so far behind other regional schools (ups, tOSU, Notre Dame) when we used to be toe-to-toe with those programs.

I appreciate everyone's game face for the Nits, but Pitt is going to get pummeled today. Here's the main reason why:

http://pittsburgh.sportswar.com/article/2014/12/22/debunking-the-myths-of-steve-pederson/
In summary, Nordenberg is a mental midget, egghead nerd who single handedly tried to kill Pitt Football. Pathetic. I detest that idiot.
 
I am not buying that Pitt has whales sitting on the sidelines waiting for the right time to pitch in. I do not believe the money is there to compete with the schools in the deep end of the pool. I think Pitt has small pockets and alligator arms.

Well our endowment is about as good as any school at our size and alumni base. BUT......that has obviously not transferred to the athletic side and donations/endowments for sports. And I am afraid alot of those deep pocket guys who really had interest in sports have died off since the 70's and 80's.
 
Well our endowment is about as good as any school at our size and alumni base. BUT......that has obviously not transferred to the athletic side and donations/endowments for sports. And I am afraid alot of those deep pocket guys who really had interest in sports have died off since the 70's and 80's.

Add, we turned off a generation of would be donors with piss poor in house decisions as well!
 
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It's an article with some fact mixed in with many incorrect details and completely wrong timelines and with opinion presented as statements of fact with no supporting evidence, which is ironic, because it purports to debunk "myths." Clearly there was no actual research done with original primary or secondary sources. But then, it is simply a lazy article purposely constructed to support the writer's personal position on something that is never going to happen.
Disagree.
I realize that you are, accurately though, of as the best source of information when it comes to all things Pitt. I salute you for your hard work and dedication in your efforts over the years.
As a 1975 graduate of Pitt and a football season ticket ticket holder since that time; I can say that the contents of the article are substantially accurate. Some details are not 100% factual but the underlying theme that "Pitt's administration has been it's own worst enemy" is 100% true.
Combine that fact with a notoriously tight fisted yizer, stiller cult inhabits the Pittsburgh area, makes fundraising almost the impossible dream.
Some day the Pitt administration and Athletic department will wake up and realize that you have to cultivate economic support from the Pitt student body while they are still in school. Presently, Pitt only gives a damn about doners who give five figures or more. Until that day of revelation the present lackluster results will remain.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
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Disagree.
I realize that you are, accurately though, of as the best source of information when it comes to all things Pitt. I salute you for your hard work and dedication in your efforts over the years.
As a 1975 graduate of Pitt and a football season ticket ticket holder since that time; I can say that the contents of the article are substantially accurate. Some details are not 100% factual but the underlying theme that "Pitt's administration has been it's own worst enemy" is 100% true.
Combine that fact with a notoriously tight fisted yizer, stiller cult inhabits the Pittsburgh area, makes fundraising almost the impossible dream.
Some day the Pitt administration and Athletic department will wake up and realize that you have to cultivate economic support from the Pitt student body while they are still in school. Presently, Pitt only gives a damn about doners who give five figures or more. Until that day of revelation the present lackluster results will remain.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!

There are facts in it that are accurate, and facts in it that absolutely aren't. Not that I expect the journalistic integrity from a blogger of trying to interview people that were actually familiar with some of these events, but many sections are just exemplified by pure laziness to not learn about the topic and such things are easy to do in an era when so much is online. And certainly, opinions are constantly passed off as fact, which again, is ironic in an article claiming to debunk "myths", since it has the effect of perpetuating many others. Your conclusions are your own, and you have a right to it whether it is true or not (and certainly no one can debate Pitt hasn't been its own worst enemy many times throughout history), but that doesn't make the article in question any better. I don't expect people to actually inherently know how to write a position paper to support a conclusion, but this is an example of how not to go about it.

FYI, you don't seem to be aware of what the university is doing to cultivate support from the current student bodies. It is substantially more than when I was in school. It has really been a major point of emphasis.

Also, as someone that only gives 4 figures, I never felt that Pitt doesn't care about me, not that it is what I am expecting from donating to support them. They've screwed up some things, and they often don't do things they way I think they should be done. When I think those things are an impediment to what they are trying to accomplish, that is when I start complaining publicly (and most recently I've complained about the failure to get links up to donate to the Wrestling Championship Fund, which still sufficiently promoted), but I've never felt that my support warranted more attention from them. So I certainly disagree with you there.
 
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There are facts in it that are accurate, and facts in it that absolutely aren't. Not that I expect the journalistic integrity from a blogger of trying to interview people that were actually familiar with some of these events, but many sections are just exemplified by pure laziness to not learn about the topic and such things are easy to do in an era when so much is online. And certainly, opinions are constantly passed off as fact, which again, is ironic in an article claiming to debunk "myths", since it has the effect of perpetuating many others. Your conclusions are your own, and you have a right to it whether it is true or not (and certainly no one can debate Pitt hasn't been its own worst enemy many times throughout history), but that doesn't make the article in question any better. I don't expect people to actually inherently know how to write a position paper to support a conclusion, but this is an example of how not to go about it.

FYI, you don't seem to be aware of what the university is doing to cultivate support from the current student bodies. It is substantially more than when I was in school. It has really been a major point of emphasis.

Also, as someone that only gives 4 figures, I never felt that Pitt doesn't care about me, not that it is what I am expecting from donating to support them. They've screwed up some things, and they often don't do things they way I think they should be done. When I think those things are an impediment to what they are trying to accomplish, that is when I start complaining publicly (and most recently I've complained about the failure to get links up to donate to the Wrestling Championship Fund, which still sufficiently promoted), but I've never felt that my support warranted more attention from them. So I certainly disagree with you there.
I am aware of what Pitt is currently doing. And it is substantially more than when I was an undergrad. Doing anything at all is substantially more. The point is that Pitt does little to nothing to sign current students to the cause.
Example:
Follow the efforts of a certain big time football factory which grants lifetime membership in their booster club for a $100 donation upon a current student's graduation.
Congratulations on your donation. I'm glad you feel wanted. If more yinzers would donate one tenth of your donation Pitt would excel. The point is they don't and never will unless Pitt ups the effort with potential new doners. How can you explain that Pitt has the second highest number of living alumni in the ACC while having the second lowest athletic giving level in the ACC? Strength in numbers.
 
In summary, Nordenberg is a mental midget, egghead nerd who singlehandedly tried to kill Pitt Football. Pathetic. I detest that idiot.

Sorry, but if that's what you took out of the article you are wrong. Did I disagree at times with Nordy's overall commitment to the football program,-yes, is he a mental midget "egghead" who tried to kill Pitt football-absolutely not. He like many academics wanted Pitt to win but they weren't willing to engage in the way we used to play and even spend money on the program.

Pitt "fans" are notoriously cheap and he an the administration realized that they put in what they thought was the effort for Pitt's lack of interest and fundraising.

I think we are finally in good hands with Nards, Gallagher, and Lyke, but we are far, far behind our former peers.
 
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Sorry, but if that's what you took out of the article you are wrong. Did I disagree at times with Nordy's overall commitment to the football program,-yes, is he a mental midget "egghead" who tried to kill Pitt football-absolutely not. He like many academics wanted Pitt to win but they weren't willing to engage in the way we used to play and even spend money on the program.

Pitt "fans" are notoriously cheap and he an the administration realized that they put in what they thought was the effort for Pitt's lack of interest and fundraising.

I think we are finally in good hands with Nards, Gallagher, and Lyke, but we are far, far behind our former peers.

That's great except for the fact that Nordenberg's administration actually spent more money from the universities general operations on athletics than the current administration. I don't know how many dozens of times the actually numbers have been posted, but when facts get into the way of someone's narrative, it really doesn't matter what is posted. Very PSU cult like.
 
That's great except for the fact that Nordenberg's administration actually spent more money from the universities general operations on athletics than the current administration. I don't know how many dozens of times the actually numbers have been posted, but when facts get into the way of someone's narrative, it really doesn't matter what is posted. Very PSU cult like.


You counting inflation in all this , or just dollars. ?
 
I am aware of what Pitt is currently doing. And it is substantially more than when I was an undergrad. Doing anything at all is substantially more. The point is that Pitt does little to nothing to sign current students to the cause.
Example:
Follow the efforts of a certain big time football factory which grants lifetime membership in their booster club for a $100 donation upon a current student's graduation.
Congratulations on your donation. I'm glad you feel wanted. If more yinzers would donate one tenth of your donation Pitt would excel. The point is they don't and never will unless Pitt ups the effort with potential new doners. How can you explain that Pitt has the second highest number of living alumni in the ACC while having the second lowest athletic giving level in the ACC? Strength in numbers.

So Pitt is supposed to offer $100 lifetime booster club memberships to recent grads? Ok, I have nothing against that idea. That is essentially what the Alumni Association went to, dues free membership (and I personally wouldn't have done that but hey, I'm not in charge). And they run a Student Alumni Association and have all sorts of events to try to draw students in following graduation. The athletic department has greatly supported both the Panther Pitt and the Oakland Zoo, provided free tailgates, all sorts of stuff. The problem is a lack of winning, and a market crowded with professional sports programs and a region with a pro-sports mentality. I think articles like this make me hopeful the culture is changing: https://pittnews.com/article/121972/top-stories/121972/
 
There are facts in it that are accurate, and facts in it that absolutely aren't. Not that I expect the journalistic integrity from a blogger of trying to interview people that were actually familiar with some of these events, but many sections are just exemplified by pure laziness to not learn about the topic and such things are easy to do in an era when so much is online. And certainly, opinions are constantly passed off as fact, which again, is ironic in an article claiming to debunk "myths", since it has the effect of perpetuating many others. Your conclusions are your own, and you have a right to it whether it is true or not (and certainly no one can debate Pitt hasn't been its own worst enemy many times throughout history), but that doesn't make the article in question any better. I don't expect people to actually inherently know how to write a position paper to support a conclusion, but this is an example of how not to go about it.

FYI, you don't seem to be aware of what the university is doing to cultivate support from the current student bodies. It is substantially more than when I was in school. It has really been a major point of emphasis.

Also, as someone that only gives 4 figures, I never felt that Pitt doesn't care about me, not that it is what I am expecting from donating to support them. They've screwed up some things, and they often don't do things they way I think they should be done. When I think those things are an impediment to what they are trying to accomplish, that is when I start complaining publicly (and most recently I've complained about the failure to get links up to donate to the Wrestling Championship Fund, which still sufficiently promoted), but I've never felt that my support warranted more attention from them. So I certainly disagree with you there.

Paco, I understand your thoughts on the accuracy of some of the events and it is shaped more of an op/ed that actual researched article. But as Joe pointed out, the underlying theme of it and picture that it paints IS pretty much true.
 
It's an article with some fact mixed in with many incorrect details and completely wrong timelines and with opinion presented as statements of fact with no supporting evidence, which is ironic, because it purports to debunk "myths." Clearly there was no actual research done with original primary or secondary sources. But then, it is simply a lazy article purposely constructed to support the writer's personal position on something that is never going to happen.
It's a POS.
 
So Pitt is supposed to offer $100 lifetime booster club memberships to recent grads? Ok, I have nothing against that idea. That is essentially what the Alumni Association went to, dues free membership (and I personally wouldn't have done that but hey, I'm not in charge). And they run a Student Alumni Association and have all sorts of events to try to draw students in following graduation. The athletic department has greatly supported both the Panther Pitt and the Oakland Zoo, provided free tailgates, all sorts of stuff. The problem is a lack of winning, and a market crowded with professional sports programs and a region with a pro-sports mentality. I think articles like this make me hopeful the culture is changing: https://pittnews.com/article/121972/top-stories/121972/
Not "dues free". $100 is more money than Pitt would have otherwise gotten.
Marketing 101 holds that promotion is one third of its most important tenets.
News Flash: The Pitt Athletic Department has been historically abysmal at promoting itself. Mostly because the Pitt administration wanted it that way.
If you want a history lesson in Pitt's ineptitude when dealing with athletics; read Bob Smizik's multipart article in the Post Gazette archives titled Decline and Fall of Pitt Football. It was written about 15 to 20 years ago and it was researched and with accurate details. Something that may meet your high journalistic standards.
HAIL TO PITT!!!
 
Sorry, but if that's what you took out of the article you are wrong. Did I disagree at times with Nordy's overall commitment to the football program,-yes, is he a mental midget "egghead" who tried to kill Pitt football-absolutely not. He like many academics wanted Pitt to win but they weren't willing to engage in the way we used to play and even spend money on the program.

Pitt "fans" are notoriously cheap and he an the administration realized that they put in what they thought was the effort for Pitt's lack of interest and fundraising.

I think we are finally in good hands with Nards, Gallagher, and Lyke, but we are far, far behind our former peers.

You're wrong. No way this is remotely the fans fault. 100% the as administration's lack of commitment. It's disgusting. I wish nothing good for Nordenberg.
 
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The story I know is that pitt(jackie sherril) bought Dorsetts father a bar in aliquippa that he proceeded to lose in bad business deals and, unfortunately the close of mills.
 
Not "dues free". $100 is more money than Pitt would have otherwise gotten.
Marketing 101 holds that promotion is one third of its most important tenets.
News Flash: The Pitt Athletic Department has been historically abysmal at promoting itself. Mostly because the Pitt administration wanted it that way.
If you want a history lesson in Pitt's ineptitude when dealing with athletics; read Bob Smizik's multipart article in the Post Gazette archives titled Decline and Fall of Pitt Football. It was written about 15 to 20 years ago and it was researched and with accurate details. Something that may meet your high journalistic standards.
HAIL TO PITT!!!

The athletic department has been bad at promoting itself because it was intentional restricted from doing so by the university administration. Uh huh. Maybe in the 1940s. You're a crackpot.

I know the history. My standards are pretty basic: facts and truth.
 
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A lot of truths in the article. I had classes with a lot of players on the 76 NC team. Pissing Jackie off was the dumbist move in PITT football history.

Has anyone seen the pictures of the $55 mil practice facility Clemson just completed? I say take a percentage of the endowment money and earmark it to football especially recruiting. Alabama's waterboy makes more than our position coaches.
 
Jesus. Should be pinned. You don't want to tear down this statue because forgetting it just only means we are doomed to repeat it over and over again. I lived through alot of the down turn.

The loss of Sherrill was the single worst mistake this University ever made. EVER!!! BUT........they could have remedied it with one simple move. They could have hired Jimmy Johnson as Jackie's replacement. But no, we promoted Foge. Same when Gottfried was fired, we could have (should have) hired Barry Alvarez. Nope. Promoted Hackett. After those mistakes there was no turning back.
What you say is true Recruits. But don't forget a HUGE part of the slide......BOZIK. He was the worst AD we ever had until Smiley.
 
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A lot of truths in the article. I had classes with a lot of players on the 76 NC team. Pissing Jackie off was the dumbist move in PITT football history.

Has anyone seen the pictures of the $55 mil practice facility Clemson just completed? I say take a percentage of the endowment money and earmark it to football especially recruiting. Alabama's waterboy makes more than our position coaches.

You might want to learn what an endowment is and the laws governing it. It is not a piggy bank.
 
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Learn what an endowment is and the laws governing it. It is not a piggy bank.
The laws can be changed by the BOT. If it is not a piggy bank then you have not seen how much is wasted throughout the University.
 
The laws can be changed by the BOT. If it is not a piggy bank then you have not seen how much is wasted throughout the University.
Really? That is news to the Commonwealth. You need to educate yourself....on a lot.
 
A lot of truths in the article. I had classes with a lot of players on the 76 NC team. Pissing Jackie off was the dumbist move in PITT football history.

Has anyone seen the pictures of the $55 mil practice facility Clemson just completed? I say take a percentage of the endowment money and earmark it to football especially recruiting. Alabama's waterboy makes more than our position coaches.


Ding ding ding. If Watson has a good year, he will go to another school for 1.5 million, and we will offer him 1.2 going out the door. Side note, if he has a good year, we won't offer him a raise , until we know he won't take it. Pirates and Pitt with so much more in common than anyone wants to admit
 
And if you clowns don't think college football is a business , your last name might be Beall-Washher
 
The laws can be changed by the BOT. If it is not a piggy bank then you have not seen how much is wasted throughout the University.

Uhhh. Don't know what to say about this. You need to learn the laws of the state.

Make things better? Donate.
 
The athletic department has been bad at promoting itself because it was intentional restricted from doing so by the university administration. Uh huh. Maybe in the 1940s. You're a crackpot.

I know the history. My standards are pretty basic: facts and truth.
I always respected your posts. Until now. That crackpot remark was uncalled for.
Name calling is a last resort for those who engage in intelligent debate.
 
I always respected your posts. Until now. That crackpot remark was uncalled for.
Name calling is a last resort for those who engage in intelligent debate.

It is absolutely and ignorant, crack pot idea. I don't have the time or tolerance left for this type of BS anymore. If the shoe fits, and it certainly appears to. Buh-bye. Ignore is your friend.
 
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The story I know is that pitt(jackie sherril) bought Dorsetts father a bar in aliquippa that he proceeded to lose in bad business deals and, unfortunately the close of mills.
Was this about the same time that Joe turned the other way?
 
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