If you were the AD

[SteelCityChamps]

I understand the basketball program probably isn't helping the athletic department financially right now. That being said I am not making a change and throwing money around unless I really believe the next coach will turn it around.

I want the athletic department going all in on football. First priority should be getting Narduzzi and his staff the resources they need.

I would rather us keep a good thing going there than constantly throw money at basketball coach buyouts every 2-4 years.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Knight would be in my top 2.

You don't want Marion as an OC for the football team because his resume isn't good enough to be a top assistant, but you want Knight as a head coach even though his resume clearly isn't good enough to be a head coach at this level.

 

[gary2]

You don't want Marion as an OC for the football team because his resume isn't good enough to be a top assistant, but you want Knight as a head coach even though his resume clearly isn't good enough to be a head coach at this level.

I think I explained in a couple of other posts that I envision Knight as a bridge coach on the way back to respectability and unification of the fan base.

I see his biggest assists as organization, chemistry and discipline, all things we need at this time.

I am not suggesting he is a slam dunk to lead us to the promised land.

I don’t know what kind of recruiter he would be. As far as ax’s and Os, he has not been a head coach, but is he the son of a coach?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I think I explained in a couple of other posts that I envision Knight as a bridge coach on the way back to respectability and unification of the fan base.

I see his biggest assists as organization, chemistry and discipline, all things we need at this time.

I am not suggesting he is a slam dunk to lead us to the promised land.

I don’t know what kind of recruiter he would be. As far as ax’s and Os, he has not been a head coach, but is he the son of a coach?

So you bring in him to fire him , makes no sense . You change coaches to win !

 

[gary2]

So you bring in him to fire him , makes no sense . You change coaches to win !

Sometimes it is impossible to go from F to A. you might night to go F to C and later go C to A.

 

[JD1976]

I think I explained in a couple of other posts that I envision Knight as a bridge coach on the way back to respectability and unification of the fan base.

I see his biggest assists as organization, chemistry and discipline, all things we need at this time.

I am not suggesting he is a slam dunk to lead us to the promised land.

I don’t know what kind of recruiter he would be. As far as ax’s and Os, he has not been a head coach, but is he the son of a coach?

Your “bridge coach” still needs to be a winning coach and nothing in BK’s resume suggests he can be that.

There are 360+ Division 1 programs so that is a crapload of candidates who have actually won games, managed a coaching and supportive staff as the CEO, met with donors, managed upward to the AD and President and handled the myriad of other important duties of a head coach.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

Your “bridge coach” still needs to be a winning coach and nothing in BK’s resume suggests he can be that.

There are 360+ Division 1 programs so that is a crapload of candidates who have actually won games, managed a coaching and supportive staff as the CEO, met with donors, managed upward to the AD and President and handled the myriad of other important duties of a head coach.

Yes a lot of candidates who have done those things but none of them would attract the casual fan to the first game of the season and then some. Brandin would capture an audience that Pitt sorely needs. John David Thurman from North New Mexico Southern State would not.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Yes a lot of candidates who have done those things but none of them would attract the casual fan to the first game of the season and then some. Brandin would capture an audience that Pitt sorely needs. John David Thurman from North New Mexico Southern State would not.

Pittsburgh likes winners. His honeymoon wouldn’t last long. BK is going to be 40 years old and has never been a HC at any level. He never played in the pros and his name doesn’t carry cache outside the Pitt fanbase. It would be an atrocious hire.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yes a lot of candidates who have done those things but none of them would attract the casual fan to the first game of the season and then some. Brandin would capture an audience that Pitt sorely needs. John David Thurman from North New Mexico Southern State would not.

Pitt is going to be really really bad next season. We will sell 1000 season tickets if Capel is the coach and 2000 if Brandin is. Still going to be empty

 

[Duneaux Harm]

Pitt is going to be really really bad next season. We will sell 1000 season tickets if Capel is the coach and 2000 if Brandin is. Still going to be empty

So a 100% increase. Way to go Brandin!

 

[JD1976]

Pitt is going to be really really bad next season. We will sell 1000 season tickets if Capel is the coach and 2000 if Brandin is. Still going to be empty

Maybe they can re-work the “Strike Force” football campaign and pick up a few hundred more.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So a 100% increase. Way to go Brandin!

Yep. We'd go from a HS crowd to a lower mid-major type crowd....and nobody would know the difference.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

Yep. We'd go from a HS crowd to a lower mid-major type crowd....and nobody would know the difference.

You would notice. It would take you way longer to count the crowd.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I think I explained in a couple of other posts that I envision Knight as a bridge coach on the way back to respectability and unification of the fan base.

And I think I'm pointing out to you that you are being completely and utterly illogical.

Do you seriously think that Pitt is going to hire a coach who they think is going to be a "bridge coach", a guy who will get them back to mediocrity but noting more than that, so that they can then fire him to bring in the guy that they think can really win?

 

[gary2]

And I think I'm pointing out to you that you are being completely and utterly illogical.

Do you seriously think that Pitt is going to hire a coach who they think is going to be a "bridge coach", a guy who will get them back to mediocrity but noting more than that, so that they can then fire him to bring in the guy that they think can really win?

The Pirates do it all the time.

Russell to Hurdle

Shelton to ???

Do you think either Russell or Shelton was hired to take the Pirates to a championship?

As far as Pitt, Do you think Pitt at this point would just be happy to end The drama and division and accept a stable, mediocre For a bit? I do.

Wes Miller would be my one and only choice for something else. I would go all in. Failing that, this is my fall back option. Not getting into to another cluster That brought us Capel.

 

[gary2]

Then there is this:

Sometimes it is impossible to go from F to A. you might night to go F to C and later go C to A.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The Pirates do it all the time.

Russell to Hurdle

Shelton to ???

Do you think either Russell or Shelton was hired to take the Pirates to a championship?

First of all, you can't seriously believe that the Pirates situation is in any way analogous to Pitt basketball, can you?

But in any event, Russell and Hurdle and Shelton were all hired for basically the same reason. They were guys who were willing to do the job to the best of their abilities given the resources at hand. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. But what you are proposing is something completely different. You are proposing that Pitt hire someone that they KNOW isn't going to be able to win, but that's OK because you can fire them later and get someone else who will.

You think that

Sometimes it is impossible to go from F to A. you might night to go F to C and later go C to A.

is some sort of genius strategy, and I am pointing out that in fact it would be a batshit crazy way to run an athletic department, and that in fact that are NO athletic departments that would make a hiring decision using "logic" like that.

 

[gary2]

First of all, you can't seriously believe that the Pirates situation is in any way analogous to Pitt basketball, can you?

But in any event, Russell and Hurdle and Shelton were all hired for basically the same reason. They were guys who were willing to do the job to the best of their abilities given the resources at hand. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. But what you are proposing is something completely different. You are proposing that Pitt hire someone that they KNOW isn't going to be able to win, but that's OK because you can fire them later and get someone else who will.

You think that



is some sort of genius strategy, and I am pointing out that in fact it would be a batshit crazy way to run an athletic department, and that in fact that are NO athletic departments that would make a hiring decision using "logic" like that.

Russell and Shelton were hired to take direction. Do as you are told while we acquire young talent. Play who we tell you. They were not like Hurdle in any way.

Hurdle and whoever were/will be hired to win when management believes the team they assembled is ready to win.

Hires are often made based on where the team is in the process.

I understand the difference in acquiring and development between pro baseball and college basketball.

But…is it so inconceivable that Lyke has no desire to risk the big strike three at this point?

A low budget, fan favorite (who will bring at least what I suggest he brings) might not sound like a bad alternative.

Lyke can preach patience. It buys her 3 years of peace., not drama. That has to sound good to her at this point.

And…Maybe she gets lucky and strikes gold And everyone is happy and lives happily ever after.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Russell and Shelton were hired to take direction. Do as you are told while we acquire young talent. Play who we tell you.

Hurdle and whoever were/will be hired to win when management believes the team they assembled is ready to win.

Wait, you don't think that Hurdle was hired to take direction? You don't think that whomever gets hired next, or the guy after that, or the guy after that, aren't going to be hired to take direction?

If you think that, you really don't know the way that major league front offices work in 2021. There is NO manager who gets hired today who is given free reign to make all the decisions on their own.

And if you think that Lyke is worried about "the big strike three" then why on earth would she hire someone that she thinks she's going to have to fire in a few years, when it's apparent that they can't get the job done? How is hiring Brandin Knight (or anyone else for that matter) and then firing him in a few years because the best that he can achieve is mediocrity not "the big strike three"?

 

[gary2]

Wait, you don't think that Hurdle was hired to take direction? You don't think that whomever gets hired next, or the guy after that, or the guy after that, aren't going to be hired to take direction?

If you think that, you really don't know the way that major league front offices work in 2021. There is NO manager who gets hired today who is given free reign to make all the decisions on their own.

And if you think that Lyke is worried about "the big strike three" then why on earth would she hire someone that she thinks she's going to have to fire in a few years, when it's apparent that they can't get the job done? How is hiring Brandin Knight (or anyone else for that matter) and then firing him in a few years because the best that he can achieve is mediocrity not "the big strike three"?

There is taking direction and there is taking direction,but I expect you know that.

I guess you did not read what Lyke’s motivation might be? I will recap and add: Risk avoidance, peace, lack of drama, fan unification, time to obscure her failure as she considers future career opportunities, etc, etc.

You are assuming she thinks she will have to fire him. You are assuming her conclusion is the same as mine. You are assuming the hire would be based on my strategy. Don’t, it wouldn’t be.

Consider why she might make such a hire. There are good reasons for it (The biggest money) The result may or may not end up with my expected, but not guaranteed result.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

There is taking direction and taking direction,but I expect you know that.

And as I said, if you don't think that Hurdle was hired to take direction, or if you prefer, to take direction, then you simply don't know what you are talking about. Hurdle basically played the guys that he was told to play, just like pretty much every manager in the majors does at this point.

 

[gary2]

And as I said, if you don't think that Hurdle was hired to take direction, or if you prefer, to take direction, then you simply don't know what you are talking about. Hurdle basically played the guys that he was told to play, just like pretty much every manager in the majors does at this point.

I value your opinion.

 

[NCanton Panther]

An assistant coach can only do so much.

Maybe the downward trend had more to do with the change in leagues.

Maybe the failures in recruiting were due to the Head Coach and his approach to recruiting.

Maybe the lack of team chemistry and discipline was a conscious decision by the Head Coach to compensate for his own inadequate recruiting.

I’m puzzled as to what in Brandon’s resume says he will bring organization, discipline and chemistry?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I’m puzzled as to what in Brandon’s resume says he will bring organization, discipline and chemistry?

Gary acts like it is some guarantee that Brandin will get us from a F to a C. Maybe he will but his resume is very bad so he is far from a sure thing that he can get us to a C level. If he really wanted the Pitt job, he would have had to leave 3rd chair at Rutgers by now.

 

[gary2]

I’m puzzled as to what in Brandon’s resume says he will bring organization, discipline and chemistry?

It would be impossible not to improve the levels of organization, discipline and team chemistry that existed under Jeff Capel.

Any candidate would provide that. Maybe that is a low bar.

I haven’t seen Brandin’s resume. Maybe he lists these as strengths maybe not.

I saw Brandin play. He acted as a coach on the court. He had an authority presence.

If you watched Brandin as a player, what would you expect his greatest qualities as a coach would be?

You think on offense, he just rolls the ball out and let’s them play?

You think he lets internal turmoil on the team go unaddressed?

You think he makes a decision on end of game strategy and abandons it because a player is confused by the complicated strategy to miss a foul shot?

You think he treats an opening double digit loss, home loss to the Citadel as “just another game”?

Brandin will improve these areas. it is nearly impossible that he won’t.

BRandin Will want the job. He will be a relatively inexpensive hire. once hired, he will get the support of the fan base as much as anyone could. He will not be expected to be a miracle worker. He buys Lyke peace and stability for three years.


Being in the situation we are, a lot of that sounds pretty good to me.

 

[JD1976]

It would be impossible not to improve the levels of organization, discipline and team chemistry that existed under Jeff Capel.

Maybe any candidate would provide that. Maybe that is a low bar.

I haven’t read Brandin’s resume. Maybe he lists these as strengths maybe not.

I saw Brandin play. He acted as a coach on the court. He had an authority presenc.

If you saw Brandin as a player, what would you expect his greatest qualities as a coach would be?

You think on offense, he just rolls the ball out and let’s them play?

You think he lets internal turmoil on the team go unaddressed?

You think he makes a decision on end of game strategy and abandons it because a player is confused by the complicated strategy to miss a foul shot?

You think he treats an opening double digit loss to the Citadel as “just another game”?

Brandin will improve these areas. it is nearly impossible that he won’t.

BRandin Will want the job. He will be a relatively inexpensive hire. once hired, he will get the support of the fan base as much as anyone. He will not be expected to be a miracle worker. He buys Lyke peace and stability for three years.


Being in the situation we are, a lot of that sounds pretty good to me.

There are a lot of maybes in your above description, but there are dozens of sitting head coaches who actually have won and have a proven track record of dealing with every facet of a running a program.

This is an ACC job. It is desirable and should be hired at a level commensurate with the other 14 schools. You don’t hire a third chair from a middling program who has never even gotten a sniff from a MAAC or NEC school.

I loved BK as a player, but he is unqualified for this job.

 

[gary2]

There are a lot of maybes in your above description, but there are dozens of sitting head coaches who actually have won and have a proven track record of dealing with every facet of a running a program.

This is an ACC job. It is desirable and should be hired at a level commensurate with the other 14 schools. You don’t hire a third chair from a middling program who has never even gotten a sniff from a MAAC or NEC school.

I loved BK as a player, but he is unqualified for this job.

Certainly can understand and respect that position.

 

[Parkview57]

a lot of that sounds pretty good to me.

I am not questioning all that you have explained, it is logical, but it is not how the system works, there is no easy way , BK needed,(needs) to take all the qualities you mentioned and put them to work for success at a lower level program to have enough of a resume to be hired at an ACC school. I am not arguing any of your points, I am just giving you a fact of life in the big money era of CB. It is a sacrifice he needs to make to be taken seriously at the top level of the profession. There are many good reasons why he may not have made that sacrifice, but the fact remains he has not made a program as the top man.

The bottom line is: It is not going to happen. IMO

 

[gary2]

I am not questioning all that you have explained, it is logical, but it is not how the system works, there is no easy way , BK needed,(needs) to take all the qualities you mentioned and put them to work for success at a lower level program to have enough of a resume to be hired at an ACC school. I am not arguing any of your points, I am just giving you a fact of life in the big money era of CB. It is a sacrifice he needs to make to be taken seriously at the top level of the profession. There are many good reasons why he may not have made that sacrifice, but the fact remains he has not made a program as the top man.

The bottom line is: It is not going to happen. IMO

Certainly understand your position.

I personally was told basically the same thing in my own work situation:” I agree Gary, but that is not how corporate works.”

Have to concede, in all likelihood, that is the thinking that will prevail.

 

[Parkview57]

in all likelihood, that is the thinking that will prevail.

Yes, one of the problems in "education" at all levels, high school particularly, but at all levels is that most administrators are not problem solvers, and as such they will not think outside the box to help solve the problems. That I believe is the difference between your line of thinking verses what will likely happen.

 

[Purdue_Panther]

What would be your plan on the coaching search?

If it were me, I would try to go very big by cutting back in other areas and selling Gallagher and boosters on giving more funding for a big-time hire to get us out of this mess. I'm talking like offering $7-$8 million per year for a big-time coach. Not sure who I'd target right now but I'd put out a ton of "name your price" feelers.

I would go after Rick pitino first and if you can’t get him then go find a great game day coach who can develop talent. Go the Howland Dixon route and recruit players who will stay for 3-4 years and develop over time. The second option means we can expect 2-3 more years before we see major results and the risk is can the new coach both recruit talent to be developed and hold onto them in a world where transfers are the norm (basically I am saying to get the pat Narduzzi of basketball).

I also recognize short of getting pitino the ceiling is much lower than it was under Dixon and Pitt fans need to learn to accept that.

h2p

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I would go after Rick pitino first and if you can’t get him then go find a great game day coach who can develop talent. Go the Howland Dixon route and recruit players who will stay for 3-4 years and develop over time. The second option means we can expect 2-3 more years before we see major results and the risk is can the new coach both recruit talent to be developed and hold onto them in a world where transfers are the norm (basically I am saying to get the pat Narduzzi of football).

I also recognize short of getting pitino the ceiling is much lower than it was under Dixon and Pitt fans need to learn to accept that.

h2p

How can you guarantee we get a Howland/Dixon type and not a Bobby Gonzalez/Tim Welsh type

 

[Purdue_Panther]

How can you guarantee we get a Howland/Dixon type and not a Bobby Gonzalez/Tim Welsh type

You can’t and that is the issue and why I would not thrown money at the program. Pitt had their coach he was in a down spell that happens at non-blue blood programs. The best example is Matt painter at Purdue and Jamie never had lows as low as what Painter has produced.

I go out find a head coach who is pretty young wins at a lower level and has developed talent at this level (not nba talent likely but seen lowly recruiter players blossom under his tutelage). You have to believe his plans will work.

But the reality is that Pitt might be here looking for thr next good coach for a while (kind of like the football program or the basketball program between the mid 80s and Howland/Dixon.

luckily Pitt fans have other sports that are doing well which has not been something that regularly happened at Pitt. So I will enjoy watching those teams excel and hope someday Pitt can get another coach like Howland Dixon and this time appreciate them and recognize we are a second or third tier basketball program.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You can’t and that is the issue and why I would not thrown money at the program. Pitt had their coach he was in a down spell that happens at non-blue blood programs. The best example is Matt painter at Purdue and Jamie never had lows as low as what Painter has produced.

I go out find a head coach who is pretty young wins at a lower level and has developed talent at this level (not nba talent likely but seen lowly recruiter players blossom under his tutelage). You have to believe his plans will work.

But the reality is that Pitt might be here looking for thr next good coach for a while (kind of like the football program or the basketball program between the mid 80s and Howland/Dixon.

luckily Pitt fans have other sports that are doing well which has not been something that regularly happened at Pitt. So I will enjoy watching those teams excel and hope someday Pitt can get another coach like Howland Dixon and this time appreciate them and recognize we are a second or third tier basketball program.

Interesting take. You're basically saying they should go cheap with a lottery ticket hire and hope for the best. Since other programs are doing well, no need to keep dumping money into basketball. Why pay the buyout then? The mid-major guy may be worse than Capel. Capel won in the CAA

 

[Purdue_Panther]

Interesting take. You're basically saying they should go cheap with a lottery ticket hire and hope for the best. Since other programs are doing well, no need to keep dumping money into basketball. Why pay the buyout then? The mid-major guy may be worse than Capel. Capel won in the CAA

I would not pay the buyout unless I thought we had the stomach or ability to get pitino. I would tell Capel he is getting all new assistants though that are agreed upon by the AD as well. I would hope that Capel would just come to some lower buyout versus being micromanaged and firing his brother. If not go grab some good young coach and hope you hit the lottery.

 

[TD_6082]

I would go after Rick pitino first and if you can’t get him then go find a great game day coach who can develop talent. Go the Howland Dixon route and recruit players who will stay for 3-4 years and develop over time. The second option means we can expect 2-3 more years before we see major results and the risk is can the new coach both recruit talent to be developed and hold onto them in a world where transfers are the norm (basically I am saying to get the pat Narduzzi of basketball).

I also recognize short of getting pitino the ceiling is much lower than it was under Dixon and Pitt fans need to learn to accept that.

h2p

The system oriented guy that recruits players that develop over time,, go to class, active in the community etc... That's pretty much exactly what Pitt had in Kevin Stallings.

Stallings & Capel both got caught short on talent trying to do a one year roster overhaul, then lost a couple of key players on top of that. I think the biggest indictment against Capel, is that his overhaul is of a roster that were his guys.

The situation isn't hopeless like some make it out to be. Carr, Stewart, X, Toney, Champ, Hugley... That's decent talent that's found its way to Pitt during some lean years.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I would not pay the buyout unless I thought we had the stomach or ability to get pitino. I would tell Capel he is getting all new assistants though that are agreed upon by the AD as well. I would hope that Capel would just come to some lower buyout versus being micromanaged and firing his brother. If not go grab some good young coach and hope you hit the lottery.

If Capel was somehow just able to sign a decent class, I'd almost rather keep kim than hire the mid-major guy but his recruiting has just been so bad. Landed the #230 recruit last year and the only recruit right now we are in good shape for is Darren Buchanan who isnt in the Top 250.