Jester Weah's cousin saves US Soccer

[Sean Miller Fan]

Thanks to Cousin Tim, who got himself sent off vs Panama, which lead to the US not getting out of the Copa America Group, the worst coach in USMNT history has been fired and now maybe the team will be able to beat someone other than the worst Mexican team ever.

H2P
H2Jester's Cousin

 

[Panther Parrothead]

The US Men’s Soccer Team has issues well beyond the coaching. In simple terms, the US talent just isn’t up to the level of its competition.

Soccer is a unique game in that two teams might be oceans apart talent-wise, but losing 1-0 or 2-1 might make the losing team appear to be in the same ballpark as the winner.

The US media got sucked into believing - and convincing people - that the talent on this team is much better than it actually is.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The US Men’s Soccer Team has issues well beyond the coaching. In simple terms, the US talent just isn’t up to the level of its competition.

Soccer is a unique game in that two teams might be oceans apart talent-wise, but losing 1-0 or 2-1 might make the losing team appear to be in the same ballpark as the winner.

The US media got sucked into believing - and convincing people - that the talent on this team is much better than it actually is.

What you say is true. That said, this is still the most overall talent they've ever had BUT they dont have a striker like Dempsey or even Altidore and that's a major issue.

 

[thebadby2]

The US Men’s Soccer Team has issues well beyond the coaching. In simple terms, the US talent just isn’t up to the level of its competition.

Soccer is a unique game in that two teams might be oceans apart talent-wise, but losing 1-0 or 2-1 might make the losing team appear to be in the same ballpark as the winner.

The US media got sucked into believing - and convincing people - that the talent on this team is much better than it actually is.

This is spot on.

And merely watching the teams that are unquestionably talented and contrasting their level of play to the US team makes that fairly obvious.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

What you say is true. That said, this is still the most overall talent they've ever had BUT they dont have a striker like Dempsey or even Altidore and that's a major issue.

I have to agree. While Pulisic is really good, I see him more as a playmaker, and he’d benefit if they had another Altidore -type player with him.

Given the growth of the sport and the number of players who are now active in the US, it’s disappointing that we haven’t produced more individual talent.

 

[wbrpanther]

I have to agree. While Pulisic is really good, I see him more as a playmaker, and he’d benefit if they had another Altidore -type player with him.

Given the growth of the sport and the number of players who are now active in the US, it’s disappointing that we haven’t produced more individual talent.

In the USA, the best athletes are drawn to football, basketball and baseball. Unfortunate but reality.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

In the USA, the best athletes are drawn to football, basketball and baseball. Unfortunate but reality.

Yep. The US has made very little headway here

 

[jivecat]

Lacrosse is stealing soccer talent.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Lacrosse is stealing soccer talent.

To an extent. If there were some athletic combine test for American 12 year olds or 14 year olds or however old they are when they choose that 1 sport, I would say

50% choose basketball
30% choose football
15% choose baseball
4% choose soccer
1% choose hockey and the other sports

The reason I have football below basketball is because while I think it takes great skill to be a lineman in football, those big dudes dont pass my "athlete test." Good athletes, sure, but they are in D1 and the NFL largely due to size.

The highest levels of American soccer are still mostly drawing from a small demographics:

- sons of former pros
- kids who grew up in an immigrant "soccer household"
- German kids who grew up in Germany to an American military dad and German mom
- other random European kids who have an American parent

You dont see many former college QB or college point guard's kids choosing soccer. You do see SOME now whereas 10 years ago there were just about 0. Dabo Swinney's Bama teammate and Godson is playing for the Olympic team. He's a marginal talent but those are the types of kids you need. Like Kenny Pickett's future kids, being the son of an NFL QB and D1 soccer player, that's the type of kid that has to choose soccer if they are an elite athlete.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Lacrosse is stealing soccer talent.

Not true from where I sit. When the suburban kids get cut from soccer teams and flame out, they then try Lacrosse.

 

[Upg bobcat]

I remember when they said Bruce Arena was the problem, that US Soccer was going to be saved when he was fired. That was how many head coaches ago. It doesn't seem like changing the coach has been the solution.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Not true from where I sit. When the suburban kids get cut from soccer teams and flame out, they then try Lacrosse.

Lacrosse are the football kids who aren't good enough at baseball

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Lacrosse are the football kids who aren't good enough at baseball

Yeah. I mean I’ve been involved in soccer for the past 25 years and I can’t think of one kid in either sex in my school district that we lost to lacrosse. And all of my coaching counterparts in the surrounding school districts never have either.

Now at the younger ages we lose boys but not to lacrosse. At some point they gravitate to the sport that they are best at. If it’s soccer, they stay. But if they are better at baseball or hockey, they’ll quit soccer and focus on that sport. But usually it’s not the best soccer players so it’s rarely a loss. But sometimes it is.

 

[thebadby2]

I remember when they said Bruce Arena was the problem, that US Soccer was going to be saved when he was fired. That was how many head coaches ago. It doesn't seem like changing the coach has been the solution.

Very true. The US men's talent pool just isn't at the level of most of those countries that have lived and breathed soccer as a national pastime for generations.

Whereas women's soccer is a relative newcomer to the world soccer scene, and the US was an early adapter to high level competitive soccer for women on a national level, so the US women have been a formidable force in the world soccer scene from the first Women's World Cup on.

 

[OH Pete]

To an extent. If there were some athletic combine test for American 12 year olds or 14 year olds or however old they are when they choose that 1 sport, I would say

50% choose basketball
30% choose football
15% choose baseball
4% choose soccer
1% choose hockey and the other sports

The reason I have football below basketball is because while I think it takes great skill to be a lineman in football, those big dudes dont pass my "athlete test." Good athletes, sure, but they are in D1 and the NFL largely due to size.

The highest levels of American soccer are still mostly drawing from a small demographics:

- sons of former pros
- kids who grew up in an immigrant "soccer household"
- German kids who grew up in Germany to an American military dad and German mom
- other random European kids who have an American parent

You dont see many former college QB or college point guard's kids choosing soccer. You do see SOME now whereas 10 years ago there were just about 0. Dabo Swinney's Bama teammate and Godson is playing for the Olympic team. He's a marginal talent but those are the types of kids you need. Like Kenny Pickett's future kids, being the son of an NFL QB and D1 soccer player, that's the type of kid that has to choose soccer if they are an elite athlete.

You rate basketball too high.

I'm not going to argue that kids like basketball. But football has a much larger roster size. Plus, if you equalize for size of a kid, the superior athletes under 6'2" will likely choose football. And there are a lot more people under 6'2" than there are over that height.

I also think you rate baseball too high. There are more kids on our schools soccer team and in the program than there are baseball players. The bottom third to half of most teams in NE Ohio's baseball rosters are filled with extremely unathletic kids. Seriously. I'm not kidding.

While I don't foresee the day where soccer takes over in the US as anything more than a fringe sport for fans/viewers, I see it as a major draw for HS kids to play.

The real problem here is that, like baseball, the price to play soccer in the US has limited its pool to upper and upper middle class kids. And it insists on kids devoting themselves to just soccer year 'round from about age 9 on. We experienced that firsthand. Most American parents don't want to have their kids devote their lives to soccer and want them to play multiple sports and have many different friend groups. IMO, those are the real impediments towards the US fully developing a great national soccer team.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

You rate basketball too high.

I'm not going to argue that kids like basketball. But football has a much larger roster size. Plus, if you equalize for size of a kid, the superior athletes under 6'2" will likely choose football. And there are a lot more people under 6'2" than there are over that height.

I also think you rate baseball too high. There are more kids on our schools soccer team and in the program than there are baseball players. The bottom third to half of most teams in NE Ohio's baseball rosters are filled with extremely unathletic kids. Seriously. I'm not kidding.

While I don't foresee the day where soccer takes over in the US as anything more than a fringe sport for fans/viewers, I see it as a major draw for HS kids to play.

The real problem here is that, like baseball, the price to play soccer in the US has limited its pool to upper and upper middle class kids. And it insists on kids devoting themselves to just soccer year 'round from about age 9 on. We experienced that firsthand. Most American parents don't want to have their kids devote their lives to soccer and want them to play multiple sports and have many different friend groups. IMO, that is those are the real impediments towards the US fully developing a great national soccer team.

Pretty spot on.

I hate to make this racial and socioeconomic…but just look at France and the US. France is made up of low income African players who are dominating todays sport. But in the US, our black players are ones of privilege and come from higher socioeconomic status. If our urban areas were a feeder system, our national team would be different.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

I agree about the image of soccer being a “rich kids’” sport. Sure, you can enter the sport by playing in some local association and pay a nominal fee. But to play for the better “cup” teams (which involve competitive tryouts), the club fees get serious - and that doesn’t even include travel expenses.

On a personal level, 25 years ago my sons had friendlies and tournaments as far north as Rhode Island, and as far south as Charlotte - and I know that pre-teens of today are traveling even further than we did.

We were fortunate that we could budget for these expenses, but one can only imagine the number of talented kids who may be outstanding players but get left behind because their parents aren’t so fortunate.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You rate basketball too high.

I'm not going to argue that kids like basketball. But football has a much larger roster size. Plus, if you equalize for size of a kid, the superior athletes under 6'2" will likely choose football. And there are a lot more people under 6'2" than there are over that height.

I also think you rate baseball too high. There are more kids on our schools soccer team and in the program than there are baseball players. The bottom third to half of most teams in NE Ohio's baseball rosters are filled with extremely unathletic kids. Seriously. I'm not kidding.

While I don't foresee the day where soccer takes over in the US as anything more than a fringe sport for fans/viewers, I see it as a major draw for HS kids to play.

The real problem here is that, like baseball, the price to play soccer in the US has limited its pool to upper and upper middle class kids. And it insists on kids devoting themselves to just soccer year 'round from about age 9 on. We experienced that firsthand. Most American parents don't want to have their kids devote their lives to soccer and want them to play multiple sports and have many different friend groups. IMO, those are the real impediments towards the US fully developing a great national soccer team.

Football roster sizes are bigger but a lot of that roster is made up of fat guys. You could be right though. Bball and football may be closer. I just think in my experience, bball seems to get a lot of good athletes who just dont want to play football. Like that 6'0 kid playing D2 at Shippensburg. He may have been a D1 football player or soccer player if that's the sport he chose but he didnt like either sport and wasn't big enough for D1 basketball so he plays in the PSAC. That's sort of why I rank bball higher.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yeah. I mean I’ve been involved in soccer for the past 25 years and I can’t think of one kid in either sex in my school district that we lost to lacrosse. And all of my coaching counterparts in the surrounding school districts never have either.

Now at the younger ages we lose boys but not to lacrosse. At some point they gravitate to the sport that they are best at. If it’s soccer, they stay. But if they are better at baseball or hockey, they’ll quit soccer and focus on that sport. But usually it’s not the best soccer players so it’s rarely a loss. But sometimes it is.

Yea, I'd agree. I think lacrosse really is only a DMV sport. They probably do get A-tier athletes to lacrosse down there. I used to work in Baltimore and you'd see private school kids AND urban city school kids walking home with lacrosse sticks attached to their backpacks.

 

[OH Pete]

Yea, I'd agree. I think lacrosse really is only a DMV sport. They probably do get A-tier athletes to lacrosse down there. I used to work in Baltimore and you'd see private school kids AND urban city school kids walking home with lacrosse sticks attached to their backpacks.

Lacrosse is spreading. Fairly quickly. Still mainly in the affluent communities, but I'm starting to see more middle class communities starting up programs. It is still a no cut sport at most of the schools where I live. But that will likely change in the next 5 to 10 years.

 

[Pitt79]

Thanks to Cousin Tim, who got himself sent off vs Panama, which lead to the US not getting out of the Copa America Group, the worst coach in USMNT history has been fired and now maybe the team will be able to beat someone other than the worst Mexican team ever.

H2P
H2Jester's Cousin

It's going to be funny when they hire a new coach and people will say how great he is, and the team is not really any better I can't see how just changing "tactics" or substitution patterns will suddenly have this team beating elite teams.

 

[Pitt79]

As for the cost of kids soccer clubs, there's nothing much that can be done about it, USA is capitalism above all else, people make big money running and coaching soccer clubs and running camps and clinics, a lot are former pro or college players or coachs, they pay their mortgage by running the FOR PROFIT SOCCER CLUBS, to all the people involved that's more important than developing poor kids to play soccer.

 

[upj87]

Lacrosse is spreading. Fairly quickly. Still mainly in the affluent communities, but I'm starting to see more middle class communities starting up programs. It is still a no cut sport at most of the schools where I live. But that will likely change in the next 5 to 10 years.

Wake me up when rugby sevens takes hold....love that game..

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

As for the cost of kids soccer clubs, there's nothing much that can be done about it, USA is capitalism above all else, people make big money running and coaching soccer clubs and running camps and clinics, a lot are former pro or college players or coachs, they pay their mortgage by running the FOR PROFIT SOCCER CLUBS, to all the people involved that's more important than developing poor kids to play soccer.

Well sure there is. I mean the soccer clubs in Europe make money, and yet they don't have a system like ours.

As more clubs, both MLS clubs and European clubs, open academies here in the US that don't require pay for play things will change. Quickly? No, of course not. Completely? No, probably not that either. But the idea that nothing has or will or even can change is just silly.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The MLS academy teams dont charge but they start at U13 so by that time its too late if you never did the pay for play thing at U9, U10, U11, and U12.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The MLS academy teams dont charge but they start at U13 so by that time its too late if you never did the pay for play thing at U9, U10, U11, and U12.

And obviously they will stay that way for the rest of history.

 

[Pitt79]

Well sure there is. I mean the soccer clubs in Europe make money, and yet they don't have a system like ours.

As more clubs, both MLS clubs and European clubs, open academies here in the US that don't require pay for play things will change. Quickly? No, of course not. Completely? No, probably not that either. But the idea that nothing has or will or even can change is just silly.

Even with MLS teams opening academies, it has to be financially sensible for those organizations to do so, if the profit they are making isn't big enough to make business sense why do it?

 

[h2p_5150]

Pretty spot on.

I hate to make this racial and socioeconomic…but just look at France and the US. France is made up of low income African players who are dominating todays sport. But in the US, our black players are ones of privilege and come from higher socioeconomic status. If our urban areas were a feeder system, our national team would be different.

It is a socioeconomic thing though! US Youth Soccer is way too oriented around expensive club teams and camps. Poor kids get priced out. It doesn't have to be this way. Soccer isn't like golf where you need a huge amount of land and expensive equipment. It takes a ball and a few friends.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Even with MLS teams opening academies, it has to be financially sensible for those organizations to do so, if the profit they are making isn't big enough to make business sense why do it?

Well the idea is that it will be financially sensible. Just like it is for the clubs in Europe.