Landing local kids is vital to Pitt football.

[cpc247]

T

Pitt will never build a football program on southern athletes. Everyone else is chasing them too. You have to do well locally-PA, OH some northeast, some Midwest-and supplement with underrated talent from the talent rich southern states.

This is a great point about southern atheltes. however all of the posters are missing the point about what is making HCPN the right fit for PITT. That is the fact that he is willing to replace /fill in his "local misses" with high quality players out of different areas. Josh Lugg , CJ thorpe replaced with Drake and Carter or Adams for Cam Bright, or Jeter for Deslin (Flip) I think this kid will be tough NC state has a solid d line and dline recruiting. This is a quality that other coaches were not able to overcome. HCPC tried to pick up some kids "unorthodox kids" ie.. henderson "slot wr" and oneil "te" who isn't a te, but couldn't make up at a high level.

Lastly while I agree we need top local players (I agree more that we need to cast the wider net approach to get good players period) because we don't have the luxury of being the top dog. Kids want schools for so many reasons and if the number one reason is play for a top 25 program we can't fill that yet so move on. We can offer things other kids want and we have to go after that (ie Playing time, Steelers, type of offense or defense, type of coaching, high profile academics). WVU isn't recruiting standford kids and they don't cry.

Local studs will stay more often if we can get the foundation set first by using outside talent to set the stage.

 

[cpc247]

Just a few examples: Moss for Miles sanders.....clark reeves - upshur ...

 

[PittMan 72]

Prior Pitt coaches who recruited the area didn't have to deal with the rampant madness that is Twitter (at least not to the extent that coaches do today). It's all a big ego validation game. Committing to your local school in a drama-free fashion and then honoring that commitment until signing day just doesn't land you 2,500 followers who hang on to your every word and bombard your Twitter page with incessant begging.

Speaking of honoring a commitment... I find it funny that Wade just posted the other day that everyone should honor the school they committed to and not flip, and then like a day later he is trying to get Ford to flip. These kids can't even keep up with their own BS.

Think a lot of what Twitter and social media does is create a whole bunch of additional peer pressure on some of the more prominent local recruits w/r/t Pitt. Peer pressure for the recruit to PROVE he is really as good as he claims - or thinks - he is, to his friends or those others that he is bantering with in public forums by getting recruited more nationally.

So the pressure then mounts on the "big time local recruit" to prove it by getting offers from the "name" schools. The ones that the Twitter-sphere acknowledges are the elite.

Sometimes the bravado may lead a recruit to overlook and minimize the things that could possibly be the ones that are really the most important to him: relationships; coaching; opportunity; proximity to those that likely care the most about him (family & friends) and have his true best interests at heart.

This doesn't apply in all cases. But it may well in certain ones. Regardless, it's the way things are today. Recruits now have the opportunity to speak to the world in behalf of themselves. They can act as their own
P R voice. They can tout themself and let everyone how much they are wanted; and by what programs. But sometimes when that happens, they may then feel compelled to follow through to show they are really as "big time" as they claim. That could potentially lead them to decide to head to to where they convince themself the lights are bigger and brighter.

Sometimes it turns out for the best for the recruit. Sometimes it doesn't. But that is the nature of things today. So Pitt has to adjust and recruit accordingly. Then Pitt must find a way to win with the recruits they DO sign. So that maybe more of the blue chip local guys they covet the most will come to recognize Pitt as one the most elite programs.

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

Local recruits are bombarded with negativity about Pitt for sure. But that is largely Pitt's own fault. Losing and incompetent administration (chicken/egg argument of which led to the other) produces negative (if any) coverage.

Invest (heavily) to win --> Get the best players (including junior college studs, no mater where, no matter the cost) --> Ditto for coaches --> Win --> Major Popularity --> Positive coverage and treatment by local media --> favorable perception by local recruits.

It starts with the first item above. Yes, it would be nice if Pitt could somehow stumble on success with blind-ass and low-budget luck, and they certainly tried with that strategy for decades now. It even kinda worked with Dixon, but they still let it slip away.

You won't get fan adulation, big donations, big crowds, top dollar ticket sales, media kissing your ass, and adoring local recruits with the mediocrity we've relentlessly produced for going on 4 decades now. It needs a stimulus to jump start it.

If not willing to do that, consider whether we should continue in P5 or even D1 athletics. Because looking at all the money being thrown around, Pitt is slipping further behind, rather than catching up.

This is where hiring Tressel as AD will help. Splash hire? Damn right. Able to raise big $? Yep. Media friendly? Yep. Oh, so he didn't go run his mouth about some players getting free tattoos? Who cares? Whenever a program wins big consistently, people are going to comb through every inch of the program, looking for something to bitch about. I would rather Pitt be a 10+ win program consistently and have some people speculate, than be 6-6 but "hey, we did it the 'right way'" (whatever the hell that is).

 

[TheNoise88]

This is where hiring Tressel as AD will help. Splash hire? Damn right. Able to raise big $? Yep. Media friendly? Yep. Oh, so he didn't go run his mouth about some players getting free tattoos? Who cares? Whenever a program wins big consistently, people are going to comb through every inch of the program, looking for something to bitch about. I would rather Pitt be a 10+ win program consistently and have some people speculate, than be 6-6 but "hey, we did it the 'right way'" (whatever the hell that is).

Obviously I agree with this. Dunno if Tressel could deliver on all this, at least now at his age ... but I'm more confident he could, vs. some low budget guy in a shiny suit with one eye already on the next job, as Barnes was.

I'll say though, yes there would be media negativity, tons of it at first (probably more out of fear that Tressel COULD deliver success, which would threaten the favored teams in town). But produce the wins, increase the popularity, and the media will be forced to kiss our ass like they do for the Steelers and Penguins. That would require championship runs, not mere 9-3 success, but achieve that,and Pitt WOULD achieve media adulation and complicity that the favored teams enjoy. Pitt simply never committed to achieve high enough levels of success before to transcend to that level. But we see it every day with the winners in town (today, for example ... a crappy wild card game against a bad Miami team with its backup qb ... a Steeler win will be treated like WWII ended by the media).

We could have that too.

But it frankly Pitt hiring a Tressel would rank as one of the most miraculous things I ever saw in my long life if Pitt would go that route. Which is too bad.

 

[SVPanther]

This is where hiring Tressel as AD will help. Splash hire? Damn right. Able to raise big $? Yep. Media friendly? Yep. Oh, so he didn't go run his mouth about some players getting free tattoos? Who cares? Whenever a program wins big consistently, people are going to comb through every inch of the program, looking for something to bitch about. I would rather Pitt be a 10+ win program consistently and have some people speculate, than be 6-6 but "hey, we did it the 'right way'" (whatever the hell that is).

DOA. This is Pitt. Will never happen nor should it. Football is not the be all and end all at the University of Pittsburgh. To suggest otherwise demonstrates you know little about Pitt.

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

DOA. This is Pitt. Will never happen nor should it. Football is not the be all and end all at the University of Pittsburgh. To suggest otherwise demonstrates you know little about Pitt.

Ok, and I agree at football isn't the be-all and end-all at the University. So hire EJ, who is as loyal as they come. I believe he could handle the job. The media already loves him, as do the alumni, and nobody would work harder.

 

[SVPanther]

You're right, he's a great guy. However, to my knowledge he has no background in fundraising nor management. We'll see. IMO, there may be a tendency to over rate the importance of the position. Next to fundraising, selecting the right coaches is arguably the most important job, and that's ultimately a crapshoot for any AD at any university.

Ok, and I agree at football isn't the be-all and end-all at the University. So hire EJ, who is as loyal as they come. I believe he could handle the job. The media already loves him, as do the alumni, and nobody would work harder.

 

[TD_istheman]

Pitt will go cheap on all hires made in next few weeks or so, history will prove this out. Duzz will tire of full turnovers every year , unless they stink, see our DC, then we can keep him forever.

 

[SVPanther]

The only thing of which I certain is that courting 15-17 year old kids to play sports must be one of the most thankless, demeaning jobs out there. Jesus, working at a call center or doing data entry would be more attractive. Just my .02.

 

[PhPanther1]

Ok, and I agree at football isn't the be-all and end-all at the University. So hire EJ, who is as loyal as they come. I believe he could handle the job. The media already loves him, as do the alumni, and nobody would work harder.

I don't want any parts of EJ as the next AD. EJ is a Nordy/Steve ballwasher that was one of the people that Barnes was calling out. Notice that EJ isn't the public figurehead that he used to be. He would always be seen at practice, used to be all over stuff on twitter etc.....now he's more behind the scenes and just re-tweets other people's stuff. I wouldn't be suprised to see him go after the new AD is brought in. Screw EJ.

 

[perchance]

Pitt will go cheap on all hires made in next few weeks or so, history will prove this out. Duzz will tire of full turnovers every year , unless they stink, see our DC, then we can keep him forever.[/QUOTE/]

Please... The Mega Millions numbers for tomorrow?

 

[cruzer]

You wouldn't.

The big boys are pretty smart. They know that any 4 or 5 star recruit is going to hold a ton of offers. The biggest challenge of landing any kid who is out of your area, is going to be to beat the local team. These guys go to those areas with talent where the local team is relatively weak.... like NJ. Rutgers will get some of the local NJ talent, but trying to pry a kid away from Rutgers is a hell of a lot easier then trying to pry a kid from Columbus out of OSU. Michigan, ND, OSU.... all make big plays for our local studs because we've been vulnerable.

 

[Chris Peak]

I don't want any parts of EJ as the next AD. EJ is a Nordy/Steve ballwasher that was one of the people that Barnes was calling out. Notice that EJ isn't the public figurehead that he used to be. He would always be seen at practice, used to be all over stuff on twitter etc.....now he's more behind the scenes and just re-tweets other people's stuff. I wouldn't be suprised to see him go after the new AD is brought in. Screw EJ.

I'm not sure where you're coming up with some of that. Borghetti is still a fixture at practice and tweets about the same as he always did. You're right: he's not the public figurehead - he's far more active and effective than a figurehead would be, at least from what I've seen.

 

[sherepower]

Pitt recruited the top local talent even being hand cuffed playing in the Big East for a lot of years. On top of decent out of staters.

Now having the ACC to sell recruits should make it easier to get the top 4 or 5 wpial players. Unfortunately, it hasn't happened this year.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Pitt offered Canada 900k to stay. That is not cheap to me. You seem certain but I have a wait and see stance on these two hires.

Pitt will go cheap on all hires made in next few weeks or so, history will prove this out. Duzz will tire of full turnovers every year , unless they stink, see our DC, then we can keep him forever.

 

[TheNoise88]

Pitt offered Canada 900k to stay. That is not cheap to me. You seem certain but I have a wait and see stance on these two hires.

The comparison to the Pirates was apt, unfortunately. They knew what LSU had on the table. So they threw out a big number (and actually I don't know that Pitt officially confirmed any specific number...I've only seen conjecture), one that was still safely below the final amount, knowing it wouldn't be enough but would sound like a legitimate effort to retain him.

But that's water over the falls. The proof will be in the quality of the replacement, and how much he actually gets. No choice but to just wait (and wait and wait and wait...how many weeks has it been now?) and see. Unfortunately precedent suggests a low ball unknown hire is forthcoming. Then we'll be admonished to "keep an open mind" and "winning football is not the mission of this university" (so it's a legitimate mission to participate in something you have no intention to ever be good at?). Sigh. It's the way of the program.

 

[HailtoPitt]

You mean to tell me that playing in the Steelers' stadium, practicing next to them and having a coach who embraces the relationship strongly hasn't helped recruiting one iota? I'm shocked.

Bottom line is that the program has shot itself in the foot to the point where we have no more toes. We are pretty much walking around with two stumps. Wanny had the advantage of taking over a BCS team, being a name guy from the NFL, and playing in Heinz Field when it was still very new, so he was able to recruit well against an aging old fart. Narduzzi inherited what was recently a dumpster fire with smoke still in view. I'd make the argument that the fire was still raging with the coaching rotunda. Recruits pay attention to that stuff. They realize that if Pitt can't even keep an OC for more than one season, then the head coach isn't going to last long.

If you were a local recruit with no connection to Pitt, and you had several nice offers, why in the world would you choose Pitt knowing the recent history?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Let's look at this in more depth. I am just going to focus on the local 4 star and above talent (actually I used the RR of 5.7, because while technically a 3 star, that seems to be the true cutoff for national program interest). National recruits. I think those are the relevant kids we are all in angst about.

2017
Lamont Wade Clairton 5 star CB PSU
Paris Ford Steel Valley 4 star Safety Pitt (for now)
David Adams CC 4 star Linebacker ND
Donovan Jeter Beaver Falls 4 star DE Michigan
CJ Thorpe CC 4 star OL PSU
Josh Lugg NA 4 star OL ND
Kurt Hinish CC 3 star (RR 5.7) DL ND

2016
Miles Sanders Woody Hills 4 star RB PSU
Damar Hamlin CC 4 star DB Pitt
Kaezan Pugh Aliquippa 4 star LB Pitt
Khaleke Hudson McKeesport 3 star (RR 5.7) DB Michigan
Therran Coleman Brashear 3 star (RR 5.7) DB Pitt

2015
Jordan Whitehead Central Valley 4 star DB Pitt
Sterling Jenkins Baldwin 3 star (RR 5.7) OL PSU

2014
Montae Nicholson Gateway 4 star DB Michigan State
Dravon Henry Aliquippa 4 star DB WVU
Alex Bookser Mt. Lebo 4 star OL Pitt
Chase Winovich TJ 4 star LB Michigan
Mike Grimm Bethel Park 4 star OL Pitt
JJ Cosentino CC 4 star QB-P Florida State
Shai McKenzie Washington 4 star RB Va Tech
(editor's note, Malik Hooker was a 3 star DB ranked 5.6) did not make this list. Shows you "offers matter more than stars".

2013
Dorian Johnson Belle Vernon 5 star OL Pitt
Robert Foster Central Valley 4 Star WR Alabama
Tyler Boyd Clairton 4 star WR Pitt
Patrick Kugler NA 4 Star OL Michigan
Scott Orndoff Mt Lebo 3 star (RR of 5.7) TE Pitt

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Let's look at this in more depth. I am just going to focus on the local 4 star and above talent (actually I used the RR of 5.7, because while technically a 3 star, that seems to be the true cutoff for national program interest). National recruits. I think those are the relevant kids we are all in angst about.

2017
Lamont Wade Clairton 5 star CB PSU
Paris Ford Steel Valley 4 star Safety Pitt (for now)
David Adams CC 4 star Linebacker ND
Donovan Jeter Beaver Falls 4 star DE Michigan
CJ Thorpe CC 4 star OL PSU
Josh Lugg NA 4 star OL ND
Kurt Hinish CC 3 star (RR 5.7) DL ND

2016
Miles Sanders Woody Hills 4 star RB PSU
Damar Hamlin CC 4 star DB Pitt
Kaezan Pugh Aliquippa 4 star LB Pitt
Khaleke Hudson McKeesport 3 star (RR 5.7) DB Michigan
Therran Coleman Brashear 3 star (RR 5.7) DB Pitt

2015
Jordan Whitehead Central Valley 4 star DB Pitt
Sterling Jenkins Baldwin 3 star (RR 5.7) OL PSU

2014
Montae Nicholson Gateway 4 star DB Michigan State
Dravon Henry Aliquippa 4 star DB WVU
Alex Bookser Mt. Lebo 4 star OL Pitt
Chase Winovich TJ 4 star LB Michigan
Mike Grimm Bethel Park 4 star OL Pitt
JJ Cosentino CC 4 star QB-P Florida State
Shai McKenzie Washington 4 star RB Va Tech
(editor's note, Malik Hooker was a 3 star DB ranked 5.6) did not make this list. Shows you "offers matter more than stars".

2013
Dorian Johnson Belle Vernon 5 star OL Pitt
Robert Foster Central Valley 4 Star WR Alabama
Tyler Boyd Clairton 4 star WR Pitt
Patrick Kugler NA 4 Star OL Michigan
Scott Orndoff Mt Lebo 3 star (RR of 5.7) TE Pitt

good analysis. The truth is there never was a "fence" locally, even in the glory days. In the late 70's a few years after TD and a national title I remember being disappointed when a stud RB from Penn hills, Joel Coles, signed with the Nits. And the early 80's saw ND come in and take Joe Felitsky and Joel Williams from Gateway, even though Marino was fresh in the minds of all PCC kids. John Frank picked OSU before it was O$U and Pitt was coming off 3 straight 11-1 seasons.

But in the glory days Wade and Jeter both probably sign here since their primary criteria seemed to be the aura of "big time" which Pitt definitely had then. Adams & Hinnish probably still end up at ND and legacies rarely chose anywhere other than PSU.

But I agree it does need to improve locally. Can we get to the 70-80's ratio's? Will take some consistent winning and appearing in the ACC championship sooner rather than later.

and btw, pretty obvious the ones that hurt the most on the list are Nicholson and Henry. Adams played hurt but not convinced he didn't peak during his sophomore year. Hinnish not real crazy about, although Thorpe will probably be a good one.

 

[pittmeister]

Let's look at this in more depth. I am just going to focus on the local 4 star and above talent (actually I used the RR of 5.7, because while technically a 3 star, that seems to be the true cutoff for national program interest). National recruits. I think those are the relevant kids we are all in angst about.

2017
Lamont Wade Clairton 5 star CB PSU
Paris Ford Steel Valley 4 star Safety Pitt (for now)
David Adams CC 4 star Linebacker ND
Donovan Jeter Beaver Falls 4 star DE Michigan
CJ Thorpe CC 4 star OL PSU
Josh Lugg NA 4 star OL ND
Kurt Hinish CC 3 star (RR 5.7) DL ND

2016
Miles Sanders Woody Hills 4 star RB PSU
Damar Hamlin CC 4 star DB Pitt
Kaezan Pugh Aliquippa 4 star LB Pitt
Khaleke Hudson McKeesport 3 star (RR 5.7) DB Michigan
Therran Coleman Brashear 3 star (RR 5.7) DB Pitt

2015
Jordan Whitehead Central Valley 4 star DB Pitt
Sterling Jenkins Baldwin 3 star (RR 5.7) OL PSU

2014
Montae Nicholson Gateway 4 star DB Michigan State
Dravon Henry Aliquippa 4 star DB WVU
Alex Bookser Mt. Lebo 4 star OL Pitt
Chase Winovich TJ 4 star LB Michigan
Mike Grimm Bethel Park 4 star OL Pitt
JJ Cosentino CC 4 star QB-P Florida State
Shai McKenzie Washington 4 star RB Va Tech
(editor's note, Malik Hooker was a 3 star DB ranked 5.6) did not make this list. Shows you "offers matter more than stars".

2013
Dorian Johnson Belle Vernon 5 star OL Pitt
Robert Foster Central Valley 4 Star WR Alabama
Tyler Boyd Clairton 4 star WR Pitt
Patrick Kugler NA 4 Star OL Michigan
Scott Orndoff Mt Lebo 3 star (RR of 5.7) TE Pitt

Excellent work...