Let the chaos begin... CA gov signs pay for play bill

[ThePanthers]

The problem isn't going to be promising a recruit money, the problem will be that people will make it known that they will pay the stars and other starters cash. Because pretty much every recruit thinks that's going to be one of them.

The local car dealer is going to make it known that he pays star players tens of thousands of dollars, and the recruit that thinks that he's going to be a star will think that he's going to get that money. And if he does become the star, he will get that money. You aren't going to need to pay people up front, you are only going to have to make it known how much you are going to pay them once they get here.

And if you don't think that there isn't some rich former offensive lineman from someplace like Alabama that isn't going to make sure that it's widely known that he pays the Alabama starting offensive linemen ten grand a year or something like that then you must not follow this very closely at all.

On top of that, schools where they are the only game in town will benefit as the local businesses will use their athletes to endorse their products. In Pittsburgh, those businesses will go to the Steelers and Penguins and Pirates like they do now as Pitt players will not reap the same ROI.

Unless the NCAA can find some way to strike a balance where these kids can make some money while not having it become the wild wild west, then this isn't good for Pitt or schools like it.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

The problem isn't going to be promising a recruit money, the problem will be that people will make it known that they will pay the stars and other starters cash. Because pretty much every recruit thinks that's going to be one of them.

The local car dealer is going to make it known that he pays star players tens of thousands of dollars, and the recruit that thinks that he's going to be a star will think that he's going to get that money. And if he does become the star, he will get that money. You aren't going to need to pay people up front, you are only going to have to make it known how much you are going to pay them once they get here.

And if you don't think that there isn't some rich former offensive lineman from someplace like Alabama that isn't going to make sure that it's widely known that he pays the Alabama starting offensive linemen ten grand a year or something like that then you must not follow this very closely at all.

So ?

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

The second this happens and players are paid the majority of college football programs that break even or lose money will fold up the tent and focus on other college sports.

I would bet PITT would be near the top of the list of programs that give it up.

IMO the 130 or so D1 teams would shrink to maybe half.

So what?

why do you think anything changes at all?
This isn’t about the schools paying -

it’s about the athletes getting paid outside of the school based on their celebrity .

 

[happjack]

The problem isn't going to be promising a recruit money, the problem will be that people will make it known that they will pay the stars and other starters cash. Because pretty much every recruit thinks that's going to be one of them.

The local car dealer is going to make it known that he pays star players tens of thousands of dollars, and the recruit that thinks that he's going to be a star will think that he's going to get that money. And if he does become the star, he will get that money. You aren't going to need to pay people up front, you are only going to have to make it known how much you are going to pay them once they get here.

And if you don't think that there isn't some rich former offensive lineman from someplace like Alabama that isn't going to make sure that it's widely known that he pays the Alabama starting offensive linemen ten grand a year or something like that then you must not follow this very closely at all.

Yes this is already happening so biggest things laws like this are going to do is bring it out in the open, is that a bad thing? The amounts aren't going to get bigger or spread out to more players because of this law, it might even reduce it some since more eyeballs will be on whoever is handing out the cash.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

So ?

So if you like the way that college football is becoming more and more stratified every year between the haves and the have nots you are going to love where this leads us.

That doesn't mean it's wrong or that there shouldn't be changes, but if you think that Pitt has little chance to compete now this is going to make it worse. Much, much worse.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

So if you like the way that college football is becoming more and more stratified every year between the haves and the have nots you are going to love where this leads us.

That doesn't mean it's wrong or that there shouldn't be changes, but if you think that Pitt has little chance to compete now this is going to make it worse. Much, much worse.

it seems indifferent to me

There is no salary cap

if universities decide to shift revenue towards the students and away from coaches and administrators

I’ll take my chances

Frankly - I’d prefer the handful of power brokers Pitt has to give money directly to athletes... then peddle influence to inside Pitt

 

[CJsE]

So if you like the way that college football is becoming more and more stratified every year between the haves and the have nots you are going to love where this leads us.

That doesn't mean it's wrong or that there shouldn't be changes, but if you think that Pitt has little chance to compete now this is going to make it worse. Much, much worse.

I guess the only real difference is that I feel that the rights and rewards due to the players from their efforts outweighs my hobby. This isn't some complicated geopolitical topic like developing country labor. College sports (football and basketball) has gone through an explosion of revenue and everyone involved has seen their compensation rise exponentially in the past 30 years except the players.

Then people use "amateurism" like it's some kind of bygone honor code that "kids these days" don't respect, but slush funds and booster payments were the worst kept secrets for most of the NCAA's history. The 1910-1940s were basically an open market, schools were allowed to pay players whatever they wanted. The post-war 1940s had schools out-bidding professional leagues for returning veterans, and we all know how clean the sport was in the 1950s-70s...

The entire argument is a joke, the Sanity-Code and "student-athlete" were created so that the NCAA and Universities could maintain control of the revenue and reduce competitive costs. The entire time saying that it was to prevent the commercialization of college sports, but the Chick-fil-A Half-Time Show Presented by Dr. Pepper at the KFC Yum Center on ESPN's ACC Network Sponsored by John Wick 3 sort of defeats the argument that the NCAA is still attempting to prevent the sport from being commercialized. Hell, even the guy that created "Student-Athlete" believes the least we can do is allow the athletes to control their NIL.

 

[OriginalEther]

it seems indifferent to me

There is no salary cap

if universities decide to shift revenue towards the students and away from coaches and administrators

I’ll take my chances

Frankly - I’d prefer the handful of power brokers Pitt has to give money directly to athletes... then peddle influence to inside Pitt

Or, Pitt and several dozen other schools realize that demographically they are hugely disadvantaged and thus break off and compete at their own level

The only reason it’s unpalatable to some Pitt fans is Penn State envy

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

if universities decide to shift revenue towards the students and away from coaches and administrators

I agree that it would be great if the Universities shifted revenues away from the coaches and administrators and towards athletes. You realize that the California law would do no such thing, right? That the California law has literally nothing to do with the schools paying any money at all to any athletes, right?

 

[PittFamily2]

Or, Pitt and several dozen other schools realize that demographically they are hugely disadvantaged and thus break off and compete at their own level

The only reason it’s unpalatable to some Pitt fans is Penn State envy

It's been invented and PITT tried it once upon a time.

That would be called The Big East.
Or the MAC.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I agree that it would be great if the Universities shifted revenues away from the coaches and administrators and towards athletes. You realize that the California law would do no such thing, right? That the California law has literally nothing to do with the schools paying any money at all to any athletes, right?

Well sort of. If Joe the local truck company owner decides to give $100k to athletes to do commercials for him he might not also give $100k to the athletic department. Joe has a budget.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I agree that it would be great if the Universities shifted revenues away from the coaches and administrators and towards athletes. You realize that the California law would do no such thing, right? That the California law has literally nothing to do with the schools paying any money at all to any athletes, right?

Yes

but let’s put some logic in play
If the decision point moves to the likeness revenue and from facilities and coaches -
It follows the money will shift .

 

[Mikefln]

Well sort of. If Joe the local truck company owner decides to give $100k to athletes to do commercials for him he might not also give $100k to the athletic department. Joe has a budget.

Yes but that budget may be in different buckets. I know of know business that gas 1 budget and everything is paid out of that budget. They have an operating budget, an overhead budget, and for this discussion an advertising budget and charity budget.

 

[PittFamily2]

Yes

but let’s put some logic in play
If the decision point moves to the likeness revenue and from facilities and coaches -
It follows the money will shift .

Coaches bring in the great players, develop players into NFL material, make the team into something that people want to spend money on, donate money, and provide the opportunity for players to get a free education.

Coaches are paid according to their abilities to generate a great on field product which produces revenue.

The argument that coaches make to much falls into the same bogus category of CEO's and other business management team members make to much.
The don't without them the ship goes in circles.

 

[Mikefln]

The argument that coaches make to much falls into the same bogus category of CEO's and other business management team members make to much.
The don't without them the ship goes in circles.

Tell that to the shareholders of Sears, GE, Kodiak, Etc etc. Tell that to the fans of Tennessee, Florida St, etc etc. Sure you will say "they will eventually get fired" yes but they were overpaid while they were on the job and more than likely they got a closeout package that is well beyond the value they brought to the organization.

 

[PittFamily2]

Tell that to the shareholders of Sears, GE, Kodiak, Etc etc. Tell that to the fans of Tennessee, Florida St, etc etc. Sure you will say "they will eventually get fired" yes but they were overpaid while they were on the job and more than likely they got a closeout package that is well beyond the value they brought to the organization.

There are always the exceptions.

The majority of businesses and Corporations in the US are successful, run well, and provide an opportunity for over 50% of the country to make a living.

Of your examples GE is still around doing well, and employees of Kodak did well most of their careers until the end when they didn't adjust well to changing markets.

Business owners, business managers, professors, doctors, lawyers, clergy, coaches, government employees, politicians on and on all have people who don't deserve earning what they earn and for the most part end up unemployed.

We know families all who worked hourly jobs at Bethlehem Steel.
They made a lot of money when things were good. They all lost their jobs in the end.

They also learned trades like plumbing, air conditioning, general maintenance and the three families plus their kids all have lucrative plumbing, heating and air conditioning businesses in the area today making more money than they every thought they would make.

They always say thanks to The Steel ( that's what they called it).

 

[FreeportPanther]

Coaches bring in the great players, develop players into NFL material, make the team into something that people want to spend money on, donate money, and provide the opportunity for players to get a free education.

Coaches are paid according to their abilities to generate a great on field product which produces revenue.

The argument that coaches make to much falls into the same bogus category of CEO's and other business management team members make to much.
The don't without them the ship goes in circles.

And the coaches do that basically with "Slave" labor.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Coaches bring in the great players, develop players into NFL material, make the team into something that people want to spend money on, donate money, and provide the opportunity for players to get a free education.

Coaches are paid according to their abilities to generate a great on field product which produces revenue.

The argument that coaches make to much falls into the same bogus category of CEO's and other business management team members make to much.
The don't without them the ship goes in circles.

Not too flawed
Studies prove ceo performance is independent of ability .

there are some exceptions but they are rare

 

[DiehardPanther]

And the coaches do that basically with "Slave" labor.

Slaves were forbidden to read or write, lived in run down shacks, received little food, and had no future. Other than that, you are spot on with the analogy.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Slaves were forbidden to read or write, lived in run down shacks, received little food, and had no future. Other than that, you are spot on with the analogy.

A figurative comparison, not literal.

Coach makes millions, player makes peanuts. How's that?

 

[PittFamily2]

And the coaches do that basically with "Slave" labor.

The going wage for being a D1 scholarship athlete is a free college education.
The line to take these jobs ( D1 scholarship athlete) is very long and competitive.
These many applicants for these sought after jobs ( D1 scholarship athlete ) in addition to a free college education, housing, food, receive free training, marketing, brand development, media training, and for some job outplacement services to the NFL.

If this was such a bad job or "slave " labor the line of volunteer applicants wouldn't exist.

 

[OriginalEther]

It's been invented and PITT tried it once upon a time.

That would be called The Big East.
Or the MAC.

Not really
Pitt was still having to compete with the Ohio States, Alabama’s, Texas’, etc while in the Big East
Just like now, where they are one out of 130 or so teams competing in the FBS classification

 

[DiehardPanther]

A figurative comparison, not literal.

Coach makes millions, player makes peanuts. How's that?

Players can obtain an education that could equate to about $200k if they are in school for 5 years, they get a stipend, eat like kings, live in first class housing, get treated like rock stars at big schools, have tutors that help them with work, and network with alumni for life after football.

 

[FreeportPanther]

The going wage for being a D1 scholarship athlete is a free college education.
The line to take these jobs ( D1 scholarship athlete) is very long and competitive.
These many applicants for these sought after jobs ( D1 scholarship athlete ) in addition to a free college education, housing, food, receive free training, marketing, brand development, media training, and for some job outplacement services to the NFL.

If this was such a bad job or "slave " labor the line of volunteer applicants wouldn't exist.

And don't kid yourself, the line wouldn't be any shorter if they offered the athletes a good salary.

The line may get shorter if those not the least bit interested in the education could go directly to the path they ARE interested in, the NFL and NBA.

Right now, the path to the NFL is through the colleges. That is the devil's bargain between the NCAA/members and the NFL and any kid with a dream of playing professional football, no matter how far fetched MUST attend college.

The NBA does have a path, but it is limited and rarely used, unless the kid is such a freak that he can go straight out of HS. Then you have the one year, then go scam.

 

[PittFamily2]

And don't kid yourself, the line wouldn't be any shorter if they offered the athletes a good salary.

The line may get shorter if those not the least bit interested in the education could go directly to the path they ARE interested in, the NFL and NBA.

Right now, the path to the NFL is through the colleges. That is the devil's bargain between the NCAA/members and the NFL and any kid with a dream of playing professional football, no matter how far fetched MUST attend college.

The NBA does have a path, but it is limited and rarely used, unless the kid is such a freak that he can go straight out of HS. Then you have the one year, then go scam.

Noone on this site complains about college or other kids working in intern positions some with no pay and others with low pay for years learning skill and qualifying themseleves for media, accounting, legal , medical, or political positions.

It's a similar situation as D1 college athletes.

While these " slaves-your words no mine" work for nothing the principals, or partners are making big millions and benefiting from their services.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Players can obtain an education that could equate to about $200k if they are in school for 5 years, they get a stipend, eat like kings, live in first class housing, get treated like rock stars at big schools, have tutors that help them with work, and network with alumni for life after football.

Some benefit from the current system, no doubt. Probably about 25% I'd guess.
The rest are used then discarded.

It is a captive audience for those whose goal is to play professional sports.

Meanwhile, organizations reap tens of billions of dollars from the fruits of their labor.
The concept of the student athlete is a scam.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Noone on this site complains about college or other kids working in intern positions some with no pay and others with low pay for years learning skill and qualifying themseleves for media, accounting, legal , medical, or political positions.

It's a similar situation as D1 college athletes.

While these " slaves-your words no mine" work for nothing the principals, or partners are making big millions and benefiting from their services.

We aren't talking about internships are we?
We're talking about big time college $ports and the sham of the "student" athlete.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Some benefit from the current system, no doubt. Probably about 25% I'd guess.
The rest are used then discarded.

It is a captive audience for those whose goal is to play professional sports.

Meanwhile, organizations reap tens of billions of dollars from the fruits of their labor.
The concept of the student athlete is a scam.

How many guys end up playing in the NFL, and make enough money to retire? They should lower the age limit to 18, and allow the extremely talented guys to leave for the pros.

The players should be using the system to their advantage, and set themselves up for a debt free successful life after football.