NBA stars of the past aren't athletic enough to play today
- Thread starter ChiefJusticeMarshall
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Wilt would like a word. He'd eat these "athletes" of today alive.We have heard some say this and of course in some cases this is spot on. But in others...not so much.
We have heard some say this and of course in some cases this is spot on. But in others...not so much.
Generally, this is true. Watch old NBA games and its really cringey. Honestly, it looks worse than current NCAA. Players have gotten better, mainly because of training advances. If the other eras trained the way these players do from age 6 up, they would have been just as good but they didnt so they are considerably worse.
Straight trash to think that the NBA players of yesteryear would not be athletic enough - who would be able to handle Darryl Dawkins in the post today? Or could jump with David Thompson? PLEASE!
I certainly agree that training regimens have resulted in more athleticism, but don't underestimate rule changes (or maybe not so much changes to the rules on the books, but way the game is officiated) which also allows a more athletic style of play.
Watching three time MVP Jokic is sometimes cringeworthy in terms of athletic grace, but man can he hoop.
Watching three time MVP Jokic is sometimes cringeworthy in terms of athletic grace, but man can he hoop.
Wilt and Dr J. Then get three guys from the local CYO league and they would be competitive
I’m not sure where this fits into the convo, but I’m tired of hearing the lazy narrative that defenses are worse today than previously in the NBA. Not only are players better shooters, more athletic, more skilled, and more INTELLIGENT today than ever before, but there’s also more depth on every team than ever before (that might change with expansion now that the new TV deal is complete).
Modern defenses are also better and more technical than ever before but, like we saw in the NFL over the past 15 years, it’s taking time for the game to catch up to the explosion in offense.
Modern defenses are also better and more technical than ever before but, like we saw in the NFL over the past 15 years, it’s taking time for the game to catch up to the explosion in offense.
More INTELLIGENT....you must have missed last night's Pacers Celtics game.
I get what you’re saying (what a choke job), but those final two minutes don’t negate the fact that defenses are incredibly complex at that level; they require a certain level of intelligence with the wrinkles and adjustments coaches throw into them.
Buzz Ridl would like to speak with you.
Great players in any sport from any era would still be great players today with modern training regimes , nutrition and equipment.
That's true but if you dropped almost any of the players of yesteryear into a time machine and placed them into today's pro leagues, they'd be very very bad. The one sport that is somewhat immune to this is baseball.
We have heard some say this and of course in some cases this is spot on. But in others...not so much.
Athlete are athletes. The 2 main differences in the NBA today is the skill level and length (height and wingspan) of players. The growth of the game internationally, is a big part of why.
Adding the international players is why the depth of talent is so much better today - similar to what occurred with MLB because of adding black then international players.
Today, it's all just the best players from a much larger pool. Meaning, the best players from the past will still be very good but when you compare a roster top to bottom- the average "old teams" would likely get smoked.
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Interesting discussion.
My two cents about the NBA of 40+ years ago vs today--and I am old enough to have seen it in person.
Back then players didn't lift weights. Conventional wisdom was that it made you "muscle bound" and less athletic and especially that it would effect your shooting adversely.
Players didn't train sport specific from an early age with basketball trainers. They picked up their games in school and informally on park playgrounds.
There were fewer NBA players because there were fewer teams.
IMHO the bottom line is that, in general, a typical group of today's NBA players would beat a typical group of those prior era players (as they were back then) given the difference in how they learned basketball and the vast difference in both hoops skills and in physical training regimens.
However, I believe that if you took out the strength and skills training improve-ments advantage that today's players enjoy that much of the differential would disappear.
My two cents about the NBA of 40+ years ago vs today--and I am old enough to have seen it in person.
Back then players didn't lift weights. Conventional wisdom was that it made you "muscle bound" and less athletic and especially that it would effect your shooting adversely.
Players didn't train sport specific from an early age with basketball trainers. They picked up their games in school and informally on park playgrounds.
There were fewer NBA players because there were fewer teams.
IMHO the bottom line is that, in general, a typical group of today's NBA players would beat a typical group of those prior era players (as they were back then) given the difference in how they learned basketball and the vast difference in both hoops skills and in physical training regimens.
However, I believe that if you took out the strength and skills training improve-ments advantage that today's players enjoy that much of the differential would disappear.
Baseball?! Maybe the pitchers could step right in but Ty Cobb would faint if he saw Max Scherzers breaking ball. Bill Russell would do better in today's NBA than Honus Wagner would do in MLB.
Baseball is absolutely not immune to it. Those guys wouldn't even see the ball coming in nowadays. Pitching velocity is up considerably across the board from where it was a few decades ago, and balls are moving more now than ever before.
I think guys like Wilt , Bill Russel , Jerry West , the big O would fair just fine as would Willy Mays , Roberto , Hank Arron , Sandy Koufax . In golf I’m sure guys like Ben Hogan , Sam Snead , Byron Nelson would do ok . Let’s not mention what a young Jack could do with the modern equipment. Jim Brown would do just fine and guys like Lambert and Hamm would bulk up ,TD would still be through the hole in a blink of an eye . Special players are special for a reason !
Billy Knight was the greatest player in Pitt bball history because he was a great shooter, ball handler, passer, rebounder, and team mate, with a high bball IQ. If you put him in a Pitt uni today with the advances in training, conditioning, dietary advances, coaching, and wide open 5 and 4 out style he would still be the greatest player in Pitt bball history. He was a great college player then, would be today. Was an ABA and NBA all star and he would be today. Period!
Yeah, the only way that someone could think that baseball hasn't changed is if they know nothing about the sport. There are more players on some teams that throw 90+ now than there were in the whole league 80 or 90 years ago. In fact it's hard anymore for a pitcher to even get drafted if they don't already throw in the 90s in high school.
It is harder to hit a baseball today than it ever has been in the history of the sport.
80% of today's NBA players lack fundamentals, where as 80% of the NBA player from the past played with fundamentals!We have heard some say this and of course in some cases this is spot on. But in others...not so much.
If " Fundamentals" means moving slow enough so the average Joe can see what just happened. Lol
In the 60s and even into the seventies the best African American athletes played baseball. For the simple reason that was where the money was. As the NFL and NBA salaries increased compounded by baseballs boring game and the fact you need to be able to afford the training, the best athletes have left the game. The game is definitely not better every team not just the bad ones have starters barely batting .180. The strike out rate is a joke. I wonder what Koufax, Gibson, Carlton or Johnson’s strikeout per game would be I would guess average 15 to 18 but that would God forbid be over 9 innings.
Speed is not a problem for a baseball player at least an elite player. The off speed is the issue from1920 to 2020. A baseball player can hit a fastball. I could go out today at 46 and hit a 90 mile per fastball. The curveball and slider gets me. Or the fastball when I'm thinking curve or slider.
Speed absolutely is a problem. If it wasn't, guys wouldn't throw 100% on basically 100% of their pitches in a effort to get more of it. If it wasn't, teams wouldn't stay away from drafting high school pitchers who aren't already throwing 90+ at 18 years old.
Now speed isn't the only problem. Straight speed doesn't get guys out. But the good pitchers don't throw straight speed. Look at the way that Paul Skenes ball moves at 100 mph. His 100 mph is something of an outlier, but his movement isn't.
By the way, if you continue not being able to hit the curve or the slider, I suggest telling you to "forget" Jobu.
I don't know what that means, but Nikola Jokic and Luka Doncic are 2 of the slowest players in basketball and are 2 of the best! There are 4 elements to the game of basketball, fundamentals, creativity, athleticism & physicality! Every player today just wants to play with athleticism, creativity, physicality and throwout fundamentals! Which is why more and more players from Overseas are being drafted in the NBA! They are more fundamentally sound!
It was a bit of a joke... Not sure if you ever coached or trained basketball players but today's training is so detailed that just about every player is more fundamentally sound than players from the past.
Maybe you meant more the style of play than fundamentals but fundamentals isn't lacking in the least bit.
I recently watched 2 coaches, one from the college ranks, the other from the NBA talk about how the AAU has ruined todays players. Instead of teaching kids fundamentals they just let them play 4-5 games a day! And I see more and more players playing iso-style than fundamental team basketball! It can be cool, if you saw North Carolina when Phil Ford ran the 4 corners offense in the late part of the 1st half and the last part of the game. It saw a thing of beauty! But today's kids want to run an iso every time down the court and Pitt was at it's best when the ball moved run 4 or 5 times before a shot!
Running 4 corners isn't basketball fundamentals- it's a style of play. Today's offenses are predicated on taking advantage of the players advanced fundamentals (shooting, dribbling and passing).
Philosophically speaking, why make 4-5 passes, if you can get the same shot in one or 2.
FWIW, I hated the four corners and was glad to see it removed from the game. Lol. It's the game of basketball not keep away..
Yeah, it's hilarious that someone could equate running the four corners with basketball fundamentals. The four corners was anti-basketball, to the point that they had to change the rules to get rid of it before it ruined the game.
Please go back and read what I posted, 4 corners is iso, that's what more and more player are doing today.
This is just stupid. The big difference is they have 3 point shot now, and they open up the lane. If an unathletic Jocic and others can play, so can those from the past.
The problem is with "playing games" instead of practicing fundamental skills (and by fundamentals I don't mean running a systematic offense, but skills like ball handling, passing, shooting drills, etc.). The issue with "playing games" is that in a game, you are playing to win, not develop skills. I'm sure at some point early in their careers, Doncic or Jokic were the biggest guys on the court and they could just go down to the block and post up, have another player bring the ball up the court and feed them the ball, and score a ton of easy baskets to lead the team to an blowout victory. But developing ball handling skills, passing skills, etc. have made them into the amazing players they are.
If you honestly think ball handling and passing aren’t better now -
And I mean at all 5 positions in the nba - I don’t know what to tell you
Across the board players are so much more skilled now than 40 years ago. Everyone can pass and shoot. If you can’t you probably aren’t on a team.
I think that a large part of the reason why the "less athletic guys" like Doncic and Jokic seem to be better at those skills than most US players is because they weren't brought up in an AAU system.
In the US, they would grow up to become DeJuan Blair or Aaron Gray.
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