NCAA Wrestling Tournament
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6 wrestlers going. The only one with a winning record in the ACC tournament is Solomon, who was 2-1. Campbell, Bentley, Wiercioch and Bono were 1-2.
It is one thing for a 4th or 5th place finisher in the B10 tourney to go, but Bono finished 5th out of 6 wrestlers. The NCAAs are becoming a joke. As more schools drop wrestling, more unworthy wrestlers make the field.
It is one thing for a 4th or 5th place finisher in the B10 tourney to go, but Bono finished 5th out of 6 wrestlers. The NCAAs are becoming a joke. As more schools drop wrestling, more unworthy wrestlers make the field.
I've never seen a Pitt wrestling fan complain and whine more about Pitt wrestling then you Mike. You bash the coaching staff, bash the young athletes on the team, then when we place 6 at Nationals bash the process and claim them unworthy. Your lack of knowledge about NCAA wrestling in general takes away all credibility to your constant posts bashing the program. Your from California, go follow Stanford. They placed 5 guys to Nationals.
I agree with the above post Mike 412. If you don't have anything good to say about the Pitt panther wrestlers then you shouldn't say anything at all. I wonder if you were ever a wrestler? Being a Division I wrestler is one of the hardest things to do and you constantly bashing them doesn't do anyone any good. So please stop with the negative or quit posting. I for one am pleased that we have 6 going, all of the 6 that are going put a lot of heart and determination to get there. H2P!
I do not want to agree with Mike 412, but his assessment of Pitt wrestling this year is closer than that of his detractors. This years NCAA Pitt wrestlers is very weak. I hope they do well, but I will be very surprised if More than two of our wrestlers win a match at the NCAA's. I watched them at the ACC and they did perform poorly.
Kind of a weird post if you are a fan of The University of Pittsburgh and the individuals who give it their all.
There are at least 20 teams that have no business in the NCAA basketball tournament yet they are celebrated.
Celebrate the good fortune of these fine students.
Geeeeze.
I think the frustration is with the admin and coaches who are unwilling to support the program and unable to teach and motivate the wrestlers. This stuff really tires me out.
Obviously the team was not great this season, but I think we were mostly very competitive at all but 2 weights.
I have no frustration with any of the wrestlers. I go to every home match and cheer them on . my qwestion is why the sport is an afterthought by the administration. and also no search was done to bring in a young coach with big time credentials.
Also had three state champions with college eligibility remaining depart in Nyama (Redshirt Junior at Grand Valley), Shaffer (Redshirt Senior at UPJ), and Racciato.
I take the above back - After watching several matches tonight - Pitt stinks
There is no excuse for Campbell and Wiercioch and Bonacorsi brought absolutely nothing
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Wiercioch is a 3-time PIAA champion and has wrestled worse at Pitt than he did in HS. Bono did pretty well as a frosh and has regressed since. He was terrible in the NCAAs. He and Wiercioch both lost to wrestlers from Appalachain State.
I say this not as an indictment of the wrestlers, but as an indictment of their coaching by Peters. The only wrestler who even arguably has improved under him is Forys, who lost in the second round.
HS wrestlers see the lack of progress by PIAA champions like Mikey, Solomon, Wiercioch and Campbell since they came to Pitt. Is it any wonder the top ones in the WPIAL aren't even considering us? Right now the WPIAL has arguably the top junior and top sophomore in the country and we have no shot at either without a new coach. Peters has to go.
After one day we are 37th in the NCAAs. We are behind PSU, Lehigh, Bucknell, Penn and Drexel among PA colleges, and are tied with Edinboro. But Edinboro has one wrestler still in the winner's bracket. That puts us tied for 6th in the State of Pennsylvania and in all likelihood Edinboro will finish ahead of us also.
The program is an absolute disgrace. Wrestling can be fixed faster than pretty much any other college sport, and Barnes needs to fix it now.
mike you are 100%right. I just feel that barnes and the administration really don't care about wrestling.
Forys now only Pitt wrestler still alive. Won twice today in wrestle-backs. Pitt has a total of 7.5 points of which Forys has 5 of them.
As I thought, Edinboro has passed Pitt and now has 10 points. But Pitt still #6 in PA as Drexel didn't score a point today. PSU has 68.5 points, "only" 61 more than Pitt.
As I thought, Edinboro has passed Pitt and now has 10 points. But Pitt still #6 in PA as Drexel didn't score a point today. PSU has 68.5 points, "only" 61 more than Pitt.
Forys lost in his 3rd wrestle-back 13-7 to a wrestler from Iowa State. Was totally dominated. Got behind 6-0 early and never got close.
Pitt now tied for 32nd place with those great wrestling powers Old Dominion and South Dakota State with 7.5 points. That is only 107 less than PSU, which has 5 wrestlers in the finals tomorrow.
With no more points possible, Pitt will finish behind such powerhouse programs as Kent State, Wyoming, Rider, American University, Bucknell and Cal State Bakerfield (not to be confused with Cal Poly Pomona which was a power before giving up wrestling in Div 1). Pitt also will finish 6th in the state of PA behind PSU, Lehigh, Penn, Edinboro and Bucknell. Peters should be very proud.
This follows after we finished dead last in the ACC Tourney. When we joined the ACC, we expected to dominate it particularly since only VT was good back then. Now NC State and VT are national powers, but the rest of the conference still is very weak, as evidenced by the performances at the NCAAs: Duke and UNC 5.5 points each; UVA had 3.5.
Not that it will do any good, but I have let a senior member of the AD know that I will no longer contribute to the AD until Peters is replaced by someone who can turn the program around. I will earmark my entire annual contribution to the CAS.
Pitt now tied for 32nd place with those great wrestling powers Old Dominion and South Dakota State with 7.5 points. That is only 107 less than PSU, which has 5 wrestlers in the finals tomorrow.
With no more points possible, Pitt will finish behind such powerhouse programs as Kent State, Wyoming, Rider, American University, Bucknell and Cal State Bakerfield (not to be confused with Cal Poly Pomona which was a power before giving up wrestling in Div 1). Pitt also will finish 6th in the state of PA behind PSU, Lehigh, Penn, Edinboro and Bucknell. Peters should be very proud.
This follows after we finished dead last in the ACC Tourney. When we joined the ACC, we expected to dominate it particularly since only VT was good back then. Now NC State and VT are national powers, but the rest of the conference still is very weak, as evidenced by the performances at the NCAAs: Duke and UNC 5.5 points each; UVA had 3.5.
Not that it will do any good, but I have let a senior member of the AD know that I will no longer contribute to the AD until Peters is replaced by someone who can turn the program around. I will earmark my entire annual contribution to the CAS.
Duke and North Carolina both passed Pitt with guys who scored points in the wrestle-backs. We finished tied for 39th place with South Dakota State, and finished next to last in the ACC, ahead only of UVA. This undoubtedly is the worst finish Pitt ever has had in an NCAA tournament, especially considering how many colleges have jettisoned wrestling.
VT finished 4th nationally -- a school that never was any good until they hired Tom Brands as their HC and he brought in the top recruiting class in the country. He left after a year to become the HC at Iowa, his alma mater, but they have remained a top notch program. NC State finished 11th. They are a better dual meet team than a tourney team. They beat Iowa, Oklahoma State and Missouri in the National Duals.
PSU had 5 finalists, but there was some good news -- 3 of them lost. As a result, they only finished 115.5 points ahead of us. Zain Retherford of PSU outscored Pitt by himself. In fact, he more than doubled our point total.
VT finished 4th nationally -- a school that never was any good until they hired Tom Brands as their HC and he brought in the top recruiting class in the country. He left after a year to become the HC at Iowa, his alma mater, but they have remained a top notch program. NC State finished 11th. They are a better dual meet team than a tourney team. They beat Iowa, Oklahoma State and Missouri in the National Duals.
PSU had 5 finalists, but there was some good news -- 3 of them lost. As a result, they only finished 115.5 points ahead of us. Zain Retherford of PSU outscored Pitt by himself. In fact, he more than doubled our point total.
In the last 25 years Pitt has had worse finishes at 45th in 2002 and 44th in 1990. There are some worse place finishes before that, but obviously there were more schools wrestling then. Also finished 38th in 2009 and 2004 and 37th in 1999.
Not that I don't think they shouldn't be looking to make a change sooner than later. There is no reason Pitt shouldn't dominate the ACC on a regular basis.
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CrazyPaco ...... do you think Pitt should make a change in the head wrestling coach now ? If so, why and if not, why ?
Also, does the athletic department support wrestling enough ? ..... if not, why ? .... do we not have the money to support wrestling ? .... aren't we putting more resources into some other Olympic sports now ? ..... Wrestling is an Olympic sport where Pitt could excel nationally with the great wrestling recruits in our back yard if the resources were available.
Make a change now?...that's tough, and frankly, above my pay grade. I would also have to admit it is also beyond my current knowledge of the program and the sport. Any decision to fire someone is tough. I would say that my own opinion is that there isn't much leash left. Peters just finished his third season.
Let's say what he has done. He's taken Rande's program, as his handpicked successor, and has produced one regular season ACC title, two All-Americans and two top 25 NCAA finishes (yes I'm aware that isn't as meaningful as it is in other sports) in three years, and he's pulled in one impressive recruiting class that has apparently fallen apart. This year was subpar, but that is sort of oscillation was sort of on par for where the program was under Rande. However, this season was bad and the trend looks bad.
For decades Olympic sports were an afterthought because of the necessity of it from a financial perspective. That is how alumni legacies like Stottlemeyer, Diefenbach, Luxbacher, etc, lasted so long despite poor to mediocre results: they were loyal and kept their programs out of trouble and, essentially, knew their place. Wrestling actually enjoyed more support than some of the other olympic sports at Pitt, limited as it was.
Now we have ACC money to put into them and you are seeing it lift some other sports that haven't been traditional successes at Pitt. It is too early to say that the administration doesn't support wrestling. However, let's not make the mistake that there are unlimited resources to put into it though. Even with the new ACC money, the athletic department is still being subsidized by the university.
Wrestling is one of the more tradition rich sports at Pitt, largely due to the legacy of the Perry family. And Pitt also happens to be located square in the middle of the biggest hot bed for wrestling in the nation. Without any more investment in the sport than Lehigh has recently made (also thanks to boosters), there is absolutely no reason Pitt should not annually be cleaning up the majority of ACC titles and finishing nationally in the top 10 on an annual basis. I don't think those expectations are unreasonable at Pitt with the type of support that the athletic department should now be able to provide. But I always throw in the caveat that things become easier when boosters step up, like they did when PSU hired Cael.
Look, Barnes has a basketball background, but he has been in college athletics all of his adult life. Those conclusions about where a Pitt wrestling program could be aren't hard to reach for anyone that even tangentially follows the sport, which any AD would. I don't know how much time is left on Peters' contract and clearly that may be a deciding factor on this. I wouldn't be surprised if a change is made now, or a year or two years from now. Personally, I think he probably gets one more year. If Pitt finishes in the bottom half of the ACC and outside the top 25 of the NCAA again, then the decision gets a lot easier to make. It also give you a year to start analyzing and vetting candidates if it comes to that.
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Good post CrazyPaco ..... very reasonable.
I wouldn't be surprised if a coaching change was made now or in the next year or two unless things get better quickly.
In wrestling, there are several examples recently of new coaches turning programs around from poor to national powers quickly (in a year or two) ..... so the right coach could turn things around in a short time ..... the fact that it looks like the program is losing ground after 3 years with Peters as the head coach is not encouraging at all.
Also, I know that even with ACC money we don't have enough to support all teams the way we would like, but I'd like to see us pick a couple Olympic sport teams that could be really good and support them fully .... wrestling would be a sport where we could be a national power, why not fully support it if we aren't at present ?
I wouldn't be surprised if a coaching change was made now or in the next year or two unless things get better quickly.
In wrestling, there are several examples recently of new coaches turning programs around from poor to national powers quickly (in a year or two) ..... so the right coach could turn things around in a short time ..... the fact that it looks like the program is losing ground after 3 years with Peters as the head coach is not encouraging at all.
Also, I know that even with ACC money we don't have enough to support all teams the way we would like, but I'd like to see us pick a couple Olympic sport teams that could be really good and support them fully .... wrestling would be a sport where we could be a national power, why not fully support it if we aren't at present ?
Putting aside whether a coaching change is necessary or appropriate at this juncture, does anyone know whether there is a boosters club or other group, formal or informal, that specifically supports the wrestling program at Pitt? If someone wanted to give money to help the wrestling program specifically, is that even possible, or is the money simply divided among all sports?
You can donate money to the Pitt Wrestling Club. You used to be able to specify where you want your Golden Panther Club donation to go. I do not believe one can do that now. I used to specify my donation to Pitt Wrestling. If you donate to the Pitt Wrestling Club, you do not get credit for your Panther club points.
If we were better, we would have much bigger crowds at wrestling matches, and that means more money.
As far as giving him one more year, if Barnes does that then you lose the top junior in the nation, Spencer Lee, and likely the top sophomore. Lee was injured for most of this year but came back and despite the rust won both the WPIAL and PIAA titles for the third time. I believe he is undefeated in his HS career. Normally, I would say he is a PSU lock, but Saenderson loses his 125 pounder and 133 pounder to graduation this year and has stocked up on replacements last year (redshirting them) and this year. I don't think Lee fears anyone on the mat, but it will give him some pause I would think. And, the top sophomore is now wrestling at a lighter weight class than Lee but they probably will be in the same weight class in college. So he isn't likely to go to the same school.
The top WPIAL kids have seen what happens to PIAA Champions who have come to Pitt under Peters. They see the lack of improvement. They see a kid like Mikey quit the program. They see Cody losing to guys he should be destroying -- and not seeming very upset about it. They see Campbell losing more than he wins at 174 as a freshman while PSU had two freshmen ranked #1 most of the year. (Both finished #2 at the NCAAs.) They aren't going to wrestle for Peters. The WPIAL isn't always going to be this strong. Last year there were 5 WPIAL wrestlers ranked in the top 5 nationally in their weight class; this year there are 2.
We lost the only #1 nationally to tOSU. He grew up a Pitt fan. His entire family are Pitt fans. They like Peters as a person, but don't want the kid wrestling for him.
I think Paco is right though. Peters likely gets at least one more year. His excuse is that we were so young this year. PSU started 3 frosh and won the NCAAs. tOSU started 3 last year and won the NCAAs. Every team in the ACC has a roster as young as ours.
Peters had one highly ranked class, the 5 kids in his first class 3 years ago. Three no longer are on the team. The other two went a combined 0-4 in the NCAAs. HS wrestlers notice things like that.
I don't know if either Santoro or the NC State coach or the Cornell coach or the VT coach would take the job. But every year they become more at home where they are makes it less likely they would take the Pitt job.
As far as giving him one more year, if Barnes does that then you lose the top junior in the nation, Spencer Lee, and likely the top sophomore. Lee was injured for most of this year but came back and despite the rust won both the WPIAL and PIAA titles for the third time. I believe he is undefeated in his HS career. Normally, I would say he is a PSU lock, but Saenderson loses his 125 pounder and 133 pounder to graduation this year and has stocked up on replacements last year (redshirting them) and this year. I don't think Lee fears anyone on the mat, but it will give him some pause I would think. And, the top sophomore is now wrestling at a lighter weight class than Lee but they probably will be in the same weight class in college. So he isn't likely to go to the same school.
The top WPIAL kids have seen what happens to PIAA Champions who have come to Pitt under Peters. They see the lack of improvement. They see a kid like Mikey quit the program. They see Cody losing to guys he should be destroying -- and not seeming very upset about it. They see Campbell losing more than he wins at 174 as a freshman while PSU had two freshmen ranked #1 most of the year. (Both finished #2 at the NCAAs.) They aren't going to wrestle for Peters. The WPIAL isn't always going to be this strong. Last year there were 5 WPIAL wrestlers ranked in the top 5 nationally in their weight class; this year there are 2.
We lost the only #1 nationally to tOSU. He grew up a Pitt fan. His entire family are Pitt fans. They like Peters as a person, but don't want the kid wrestling for him.
I think Paco is right though. Peters likely gets at least one more year. His excuse is that we were so young this year. PSU started 3 frosh and won the NCAAs. tOSU started 3 last year and won the NCAAs. Every team in the ACC has a roster as young as ours.
Peters had one highly ranked class, the 5 kids in his first class 3 years ago. Three no longer are on the team. The other two went a combined 0-4 in the NCAAs. HS wrestlers notice things like that.
I don't know if either Santoro or the NC State coach or the Cornell coach or the VT coach would take the job. But every year they become more at home where they are makes it less likely they would take the Pitt job.
Spencer Lee, and that level of recruit, is just beyond Pitt's reach, regardless of the Pitt coach. The same point applies to kids with excellent academic credentials that get them into schools like Cornell, Princteon and Stanford (the Freys and Schram).But, the good news is that there are boatloads of Pennsylvania kids, below the Spencer Lee level, that turn into very fine college wrestlers. Every year, PA produces upwards of 60 qualifiers, and I would guess about 25 kids that win at least a couple matches at the NCAAs. And, especially with the kids east of say Johnstown and extending into eastern Ohio, Pitt should be right in the mix.
As important as high school wrestling is for college recruitment, my sense is that the club wrestling is probably even more important. Western PA has among the top clubs in the country, actually multiple top clubs. Is Pitt connecting with these clubs to the degree that it can or should? Can it make the Fieldhouse available for meets? Can former Pitt wrestlers be used to create inroads into the youth wrestling scene? From my limited vantage point, I don't have the sense that Pitt is taking advantage as much as it could of the benefit it enjoys above every other college of sheer proximity to the youth wrestling scene in its area. Maybe that is unfair, and as stated, that is not likely to persuade the likes of Lee, Schram, the Freys, or probably Nolf, Megaldudis, or Joseph, to wrestle for Pitt. But there are lots of other Western Pa kids out there that wrestled well at the NCAA's. Ironically, one of them was Morelli , who did not AA but certainly performed at a high level.
As important as high school wrestling is for college recruitment, my sense is that the club wrestling is probably even more important. Western PA has among the top clubs in the country, actually multiple top clubs. Is Pitt connecting with these clubs to the degree that it can or should? Can it make the Fieldhouse available for meets? Can former Pitt wrestlers be used to create inroads into the youth wrestling scene? From my limited vantage point, I don't have the sense that Pitt is taking advantage as much as it could of the benefit it enjoys above every other college of sheer proximity to the youth wrestling scene in its area. Maybe that is unfair, and as stated, that is not likely to persuade the likes of Lee, Schram, the Freys, or probably Nolf, Megaldudis, or Joseph, to wrestle for Pitt. But there are lots of other Western Pa kids out there that wrestled well at the NCAA's. Ironically, one of them was Morelli , who did not AA but certainly performed at a high level.
Support of the Pittsburgh Wrestling Club is important. I've contemplated that myself, but you should be able to designate donations to the wrestling through the athletic department.
If you donate just generically to the PantherClub, that goes into a scholarship fund that is used to pay that year's scholarship expenses for all student athletes and is factored into your annual giving level. However, I am quite sure you can call up the PantherClub and designate your donation specifically to the wrestling program. Now, such a donation won't impact your giving level (e.g. Victory, Blue, Gold, Director, Sutherland, etc) but you will still get priority points. I'm sure you can talk to them about how to direct a gift how you wish, and you could probably donate to an existing wrestling endowment fund like the Coach Rande Sottlemyer Endowed Scholarship. In fact, you should get 0.5 bonus points for every $50 you donate to an endowment fund.
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I didn't mean to say I am tired or frustrated with the wrestlers. It is the admin and coaching staff that drives me nuts. Sorry for not being clear.
Your statement sounds like the coach chooses who will wrestle. I thought these guys had eliminations for starting positions. Am I wrong?
I can't imagine a kid like Spence going to Pitt under the present conditions. It just doesn't make sense.
Most schools have wrestle offs, but the coach usually decides who wrestles. Iowa does it that way. A wrestler may win the wrestle off and still not get to wrestle.
That seems so strange. Why do the extra work to win an elimination when you might not wrestle? I think the Pitt coach in the early seventies used to do that.
If you are the defending champ, you do not need to wrestle off. You would have to beat that guy a lot to take his spot as well as do better in the midlands etc. occasionally there is a guy who is great in practice, but does not do well in matches. The coach wants to put the best wrestler(the guy who wins) on the mat if at all possible.
I have a question: Based on the number of wrestlers each team sends to nationals, how many teams have a legitimate shot at a national championship?
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